10 out of 10 today...he learnt from that defeat...and I bet he did the hair dryer treatment this week...and it worked.
Louis van Gaal's tactics
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Very positive, but wouldn't you prefer Martial up top? Rooney either out wide or on the bench.
I am not sure I agree that people have been calling for Rojo
I would also argue that most did not want Rooney (including me) anywhere near the side.
That all said, LVG has built quite a decent squad where he has ample cover in most positions, bar striker.
I would, but Martial is better out left than Rooney, as he has the pace & trickery that Rooney lacks, so, it wasn't a problem. Martial did that role very often at Monaco too.
Yup, I think the hairdryer was on full blast as well, and the effect seemed evident. Everyone seemed to be working hard today.
Didn't he play out left for France last week?
Right, think he did.
Great to see LVG learning from the Arse defeat.
If we play a 433 which I think (?) we did today, then Martial is a nailed on starter for the front 3, then after that we have Rooney, Mata, Memphis, Young, and then Valencia, Lingaard , Wilson and maybe Fellaini competing for two spaces, not too shabby but still needing 'another' top top player, I really would like to see Griezman at OT
I am not sure I agree that people have been calling for Rojo
I would also argue that most did not want Rooney (including me) anywhere near the side.
That all said, LVG has built quite a decent squad where he has ample cover in most positions, bar striker.
Think before the season, if you asked people what team they'd play, apart from Rojo who was in for Shaw and Martial who wasn't here yet, people would have said the team we played today.
I'd agree with that but imo even this Rooney is capable of doing a job on the left because it requires the least amount of (attacking) creative work; in fact it's the things he actually excels in, good cross, tracking back and having as little time on the ball as possible i.e he's able to flat track bully (!). Also I'd much rather Rooney be the one covering our left back than wasting Martial's energy.
I've said it in the Martial thread but we've got to protect him and rest him as much as we can. He's a physical beast but he's doing a lot of physically draining actions.
2nd in the league whilst team is very much work in progress. With Herrera and Schneiderlin to feature much more I suspect and Martial developing, Memphis to improve and Jones back, I think we are in a very, very healthy place. The most satisfying thing I feel is that any manager coming in a few years from now, who ever it is will have a very solid team. We are back!
Many people think the hairdryer treatment made the difference. I strongly disagree with this.
The hairdryer treatment can wake up a player who is snoozing (and I will admit that we were snoozing for the opening 40 minutes of the AFC game).
But what we saw yesterday was a fundamental change in the final third.
No longer were we trying to make 45 passes before attempting to shoot on goal. Yesterday, in the final third of the pitch, there was very little back passing (even Rooney who only does back passes, was not doing these yesterday) and generally, when we got the ball close to their penalty area (PA), we aimed to either cross the ball into the PA or shoot on goal.
This change in strategy is not down to players, but the manager himself.
Maybe, just maybe, he has realised that to win games, we dont need to make 45 passes before shooting. And that maybe, we can score goals, by making 5, fast, 1 touch passes before shooting.
The hairdryer treatment can wake up a player who is snoozing (and I will admit that we were snoozing for the opening 40 minutes of the AFC game).
But what we saw yesterday was a fundamental change in the final third.
No longer were we trying to make 45 passes before attempting to shoot on goal. Yesterday, in the final third of the pitch, there was very little back passing (even Rooney who only does back passes, was not doing these yesterday) and generally, when we got the ball close to their penalty area (PA), we aimed to either cross the ball into the PA or shoot on goal.
This change in strategy is not down to players, but the manager himself.
Maybe, just maybe, he has realised that to win games, we dont need to make 45 passes before shooting. And that maybe, we can score goals, by making 5, fast, 1 touch passes before shooting.
Tbh i was expecting people on here to give Giggs the credit for United's performance at Everton.
I've been saying it for ages but yesterday is exactly how we should approach away games
Instead of attempting to dominate the opposition from KO and do all the hard yards trying to force a breakthrough just sit tight and let them try and break us down
Then lets see how effective the likes of Everton, Swansea etc....are when they are asked to come up with something
Instead of attempting to dominate the opposition from KO and do all the hard yards trying to force a breakthrough just sit tight and let them try and break us down
Then lets see how effective the likes of Everton, Swansea etc....are when they are asked to come up with something
Deserves credit for picking pretty much the exact team members of Redcafe, that is, laymen, have been calling for since the start of the season.
I'll reserve my praise until next week. That'll be the true test of our progress.
I'll reserve my praise until next week. That'll be the true test of our progress.
I don't think he should be praised or criticised for Wins and losses after every game. I think he has set the template for the season and sometimes shite happens.
He was slaughtered 2 weeks ago, and now he's a genius.
He was criticised for how the team setup against Arsenal, when the only difference between the first 25 minutes in that match and the first 25 minutes in our last 4 games at the Emirates ( yes, including Fergie's last season) was the scoreline.
He was slaughtered 2 weeks ago, and now he's a genius.
He was criticised for how the team setup against Arsenal, when the only difference between the first 25 minutes in that match and the first 25 minutes in our last 4 games at the Emirates ( yes, including Fergie's last season) was the scoreline.
I've had a constant feeling since van Gaal started that he seems to stumble upon these formations and tactics that work, as if by accident.
All this season we've been calling out for Herrera and a formation that includes three CMs - instead he persisted with the shite 4-4-1-1 up until, oh yes, last week when it finally came unstuck and we got hammered. Had we drawn that match, I'm pretty sure we'd have gone into yesterday's game with the same set-up despite ample evidence that it wasn't really working and wasn't an optimal use of our squad.
I mean, the tactics used against were impressively shit - every Tom, Dick and Harry knew it wasn't going to work.
A similar thing happened last season when we had out little spurt of form towards the end. Again, we had been calling for a similar set-up to the one used in those games, yet it took him close to 6 months to figure it out.
I don't know. I just don't see much method in the madness.
All this season we've been calling out for Herrera and a formation that includes three CMs - instead he persisted with the shite 4-4-1-1 up until, oh yes, last week when it finally came unstuck and we got hammered. Had we drawn that match, I'm pretty sure we'd have gone into yesterday's game with the same set-up despite ample evidence that it wasn't really working and wasn't an optimal use of our squad.
I mean, the tactics used against were impressively shit - every Tom, Dick and Harry knew it wasn't going to work.
A similar thing happened last season when we had out little spurt of form towards the end. Again, we had been calling for a similar set-up to the one used in those games, yet it took him close to 6 months to figure it out.
I don't know. I just don't see much method in the madness.
Pluses:
- switch to 4-3-3
- giving Herrera a go in his preferred position
- moving Martial to the left and dropping Memphis
- Mata/Lingard sub (it was clever and took some balls)
- Dropping Blind for Rojo (not sure if the latter is better LB but against Everton I think it was a good decision)
Personally, I think the biggest change yesterday was we had 11 players who were involved. No real changes in tactics or style of play. Usually we have Depay being largely anonymous and not helping the LB, Rooney strolling about and being ineffective. A team as a whole can't function that way.
Martial kept Coleman quiet in the first half and largely destroyed him in the second half providing a very concerted attacking threat. Though Rooney was not at the top of his game he was considerably more mobile and in the right place at the right time. Herrera did his normal injection of tempo and he is very good at finding players that move. Jones and Rojo did not do anything that Shaw and Blind had not already done. Smalling marking the big guy up front was different in that Blind had to do that in the other games.
Not carrying players always helps in these types of game.
A really good team performance, looking forward to the City game. I expect City to come at us like they usually do, bit like the Arsenal game so be good to see how we cope.
Martial kept Coleman quiet in the first half and largely destroyed him in the second half providing a very concerted attacking threat. Though Rooney was not at the top of his game he was considerably more mobile and in the right place at the right time. Herrera did his normal injection of tempo and he is very good at finding players that move. Jones and Rojo did not do anything that Shaw and Blind had not already done. Smalling marking the big guy up front was different in that Blind had to do that in the other games.
Not carrying players always helps in these types of game.
A really good team performance, looking forward to the City game. I expect City to come at us like they usually do, bit like the Arsenal game so be good to see how we cope.
He hasn't had those players available to him till yesterday.
Well I was very pleasantly surprised by the result yesterday. I did not see that one coming at all.
Sounds like LVG made some big decisions and they worked out for him yesterday.
Leaving Blind out was a big big decision but it worked out. Is that going to be a regular thing now?
Pushing Martial out wide gives us more pace in the wide areas but I'd rather sacrifice Rooney than Martial. But hey it was a very good result so at the end of the day LVG got it spot on!
I'm very hard on LVG and rightly so I think but credit where credit is due! He clearly learnt from the Arsenal game and made the right changes to deal with Everton. More of the same next week please.
Sounds like LVG made some big decisions and they worked out for him yesterday.
Leaving Blind out was a big big decision but it worked out. Is that going to be a regular thing now?
Pushing Martial out wide gives us more pace in the wide areas but I'd rather sacrifice Rooney than Martial. But hey it was a very good result so at the end of the day LVG got it spot on!
I'm very hard on LVG and rightly so I think but credit where credit is due! He clearly learnt from the Arsenal game and made the right changes to deal with Everton. More of the same next week please.
Herrera's been fit all season.
I think the 4-3-3 and 4-2-3-1 are basically the same formation so in a way he was always playing the 4-3-3 or continued playing the 4-2-3-1.
The team against Southampton was similar with only difference being Blind on for Jones(injured), Carrick for schweinsteiger and depay for Rooney. Yet we struggled for some time mainly because the players were getting used to our style of play. Not to mention we had a motivation to win after a dismal performance last time out and players like rojo Herrera and all played for their place.
So more than a quarter of the team then..
That team was our strongest available team. Schweinsteiger played two continuous games and was due a rest. Rooney was injured too. Not like we never play the strongest team
He's just come back from injury...
He missed the Arsenal game through injury, but he was fit the previous weeks.
Maybe at 67, VG is still learning and that hard way too, with allot of busted lips and nose bleeds
Its quiet simple for next week, play bastian, morgan, herrera, mata and martial with rooney up top, and we can ruin city. Remember with city, they hate playing against possession based teams who can press them and match them on the park, we have the players to not only outplay city, but pound for pound we can match them with the quality.
If the team is what we played against everton
DDG
Darmian jones smalling rojo
morgan
bastian herrera
martial mata
rooney
That team can do serious damage, martial's pace and his ability to track back has made a whole world of difference to our attack, if he plays the same midfield and attack, city may have a long day ahead this sunday. That is the thing with VG, he is always daring to cross the line that can cause a few feck ups, because he likes trying way too many different things, against everton we finally saw some balance that we have not seen since we outplayed city spurs and liverpool, and we looked convincing, when we do under VG? we can be hard to stop
He's always known this, his successful teams of the past didn't play like United have been recently, the Everton game is more like it but now that needs to happen consistently and for it to be possible the players need to develop an understanding and be confident in their play. The early goal helped because then there was momentum and they carried that on.
In the past when his sides have had successful seasons they got off to a slow start but then things click near the end of October and start of November, the signs from the Everton game are positive, it's about doing that consistently now.
He likes a quick transition, not for players to be hesitant, he has spoken of this so much in the past and even this season repeatedly stated in the third and fourth phase we need to improve (attacking after winning the ball back, and when they defend deep after their defence organises itself). I'm not sure why posters still think he doesn't want this, he just doesn't want it to be done poorly so in order for it to be done well the team need to practice and improve their play and then confidently execute it on the pitch, this takes time and with all of our new signings we were never going to start the season how he intends for us to be playing.
The disapproval Louis van Gaal gets is ridiculous, this is why he hates Journalists, because they have never managed a team and talk as though it's an easy thing to do. In reality it takes time for the players to be able to execute what you want them to be able to execute, and it's not so simple as spending a lot of money and then the new signings instantly do what you want.
Give the man credit where it's due, 5 fast one touch passes and then a goal is exactly what he has always wanted, he's just working on making us being able to do that (and as for players who show a desire to learn but aren't successfully helping our attacking play, he wants to work with them to see if he can improve them).
Also it's not as simple as instructing the players to do 5 fast one touch passes and then score because that won't work and if we play in a way to do that without the players having the necessary understanding then we will lose games, and we certainly wouldn't be two points off the top, as of now we've played pretty poor overall for our 9 but we have the points.
Look at him applaud this goal, he'll do the same with us.
He's not 67 though?
History shows his methods are very good. At Ajax he had a saying posted on his wall "Quality is the exclusion of coincidence."
Rooney scored so even that element of this lineup worked perfectly this weekend BUT on a normal weekend where Rooney plays under par and doesnt score, his replacement in the team is the only way we can better that formation.
Lot of confirmation bias going on here. It was the same last season as well. People are constantly asking for all kinds of shit all at once.
Yeah, they will only say things that they got right and ignore those that they didn't, and thinks they know more than the manager. They're all like "I know this this this would work but LVG never listens, but now that he finally did what I had always wanted suddenly we are winning. Wow I'm so smart."
In his post-match interview LVG said the strategy was that "we dropped in a little bit to create space for ourselves".
Some questions about that:
- Do you expect that to be a more regular strategy or will it fully depend on the opponents?
- How well does this strategy fit Mata in his current position?
- Would Depay be better too with more space and would he deserve a chance?
Some questions about that:
- Do you expect that to be a more regular strategy or will it fully depend on the opponents?
- How well does this strategy fit Mata in his current position?
- Would Depay be better too with more space and would he deserve a chance?
- Hopefully
- Not very well
- Should deserve a chance, anyway. Would have preferred if he came on as a substitute instead of Fellaini. Should use him like he was used in the world cup: coming in around the 60th-65th minutes against tired defenses and with a little more space to do his thing. He needs to get used to football in this league and learn to play against tighter defenses, which won't come without getting appearances.
Very fecking true. Happens after every good win.
I think the biggest factors allowing us to win were Rooney being moved out of number 10 so he couldn't stifle every move before it got going, Memphis being dropped (he's been to ineffectual in recent games) and us going 2-0 up after 20 odd minute.
What I was most impressed about regarding the win at Everton, we looked like the United under Fergie at times. It was a hybrid of LvG's keep possession, then Fergie's counter attacking football. Brilliant to watch and most definitely the best performance of the season so far.
Part of me wonders how much of a part Gigg's played in that performance, it just seems strange for LvG to abandon his tactics for something a little bit riskier. Either way, if we play like that more often, we're in with a very good shout of running whoever wins the league very close.
Part of me wonders how much of a part Gigg's played in that performance, it just seems strange for LvG to abandon his tactics for something a little bit riskier. Either way, if we play like that more often, we're in with a very good shout of running whoever wins the league very close.
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