Louis van Gaal's tactics

[Triple.Threat]

Everton players have the speed to hit us on the counter and organization in their defense. If LvG made the amateur mistake he did at Arsenal and played with two in midfield and continued his love affair with Rooney we would suffer.

 

[Rich_H_1989]

People on here did a great job before by pointing out how we got better and improved. If you can't see that, you're either holding a grudge or you just don't want to see it (especially by preferring Moyes).

That though I'm afraid is a matter of opinion! I don't not think I've seen any kind of improvement. Now others may well feel that there has been and that's their opinion but I don't. I don't have a grudge against LVG so to suggest so is a bit ridiculous! Why would I? The guy has never done anything to upset us as fans. And he took us from 7th to 4th which I guess is an achievement. But I don't like this boring football we play under him and I never will.

You're playing way more exciting football than we did in van Gaal's 2nd season at the club. Maybe you should see that as a positive development?

I'm not sure that gives me much confidence mate! Plus that doesn't mean it'll work out in the end because I don't think his style is suited to the Premier League.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

I want to believe you. On what basis do you say this?

I'm basing this on a number of things. Firstly, his history as a manager shows that in his career he has brought through many top youngsters and has laid the foundations for the two best teams in the world (Barca, Bayern). I also think that despite what people say, possession football when played well is the best football tactic in the world again as is highlighted by the domination of Bayern and Barca. Now obviously we are still alittle bit short if that quality but I think we have players in, Memphis, martial ,shaw etc that can all reach that top,top level and get us up to those teams.

Secondly, I think people underestimate just home much work LVG has done to make us a defensive unit, I personally think we have one of the most solid units in the league right now (Arsenal game aside) and u do think over the course of the whole season that will once agin prove to be the case. Now it's because of the improvement in the defensive game that makes me think that the attacking side of the game will come sooner rather than later. For me personally we have seen glimpses of this teams attacking potential and I think with further work and maybe a start player addition(Bale, Griezman etc) I think we could suddenly see our attack explode into life. Despite what people say at the moment, LVG does build solid, but exciting attacking teams and that's where Utd are heading.

In my opinion, we are in a waiting stage; at this time we need to wait for the talent that we possess to come to fruition as it will over the next few years, (perhaps even after LVG has gone). We are currently standing at a landmark, that I think will be looked at as huge in utds history. Similar to 2003-4 when young Ronaldo and Rooney were developing and it was just the case of waiting for the tree to bear fruit I think we stand at a similar point. Perhaps I'm being far too optimistic, perhaps these players won't develop, but I see potential in this team and its style to get right to the top of football again with the right patience and clever moves.

 

[Red Dreams]

I'm basing this on a number of things. Firstly, his history as a manager shows that in his career he has brought through many top youngsters and has laid the foundations for the two best teams in the world (Barca, Bayern). I also think that despite what people say, possession football when played well is the best football tactic in the world again as is highlighted by the domination of Bayern and Barca. Now obviously we are still alittle bit short if that quality but I think we have players in, Memphis, martial ,shaw etc that can all reach that top,top level and get us up to those teams.

Secondly, I think people underestimate just home much work LVG has done to make us a defensive unit, I personally think we have one of the most solid units in the league right now (Arsenal game aside) and u do think over the course of the whole season that will once agin prove to be the case. Now it's because of the improvement in the defensive game that makes me think that the attacking side of the game will come sooner rather than later. For me personally we have seen glimpses of this teams attacking potential and I think with further work and maybe a start player addition(Bale, Griezman etc) I think we could suddenly see our attack explode into life. Despite what people say at the moment, LVG does build solid, but exciting attacking teams and that's where Utd are heading.

In my opinion, we are in a waiting stage; at this time we need to wait for the talent that we possess to come to fruition as it will over the next few years, (perhaps even after LVG has gone). We are currently standing at a landmark, that I think will be looked at as huge in utds history. Similar to 2003-4 when young Ronaldo and Rooney were developing and it was just the case of waiting for the tree to bear fruit I think we stand at a similar point. Perhaps I'm being far too optimistic, perhaps these players won't develop, but I see potential in this team and its style to get right to the top of football again with the right patience and clever moves.

good post.

I liked how we played last season...well most of it. This season all the games were sluggish. And losing to an Arsenal team I dont really rate...well that broke my back. I hope you are right. It will be very interesting how he approaches the next few matches and the one at Anfield should be very revealing.

 

[steve zizou]

Bearing in my that the reason we were top was nothing to do with us and had everything to do with our rivals messing up. That's not us improving that's everyone else getting worse.

Mate, you do realise than football is a zero-sum game and 2 teams cannot both win a match.

I'm beginning to find the caf tiresome lately with the constant need to find fault in the team in any given scenario. We are always lucky to win our games but that never applies the opposition when we lose or draw.
We moan about club not spending big on quality players but change narrative to club spending too much money on signings. We moan about Rooney in midfield then moan when he's moved into attack. We moan about relying too much on a 19 year old, then moan about not giving youth a chance. We moan about not being clinical enough. but also moan about how we only managed to create 3 chances in a game despite scoring from all 3. We moan when we're outside top 4 and we moan when 2pts off 1st place with 30 games to go...

Is the lack of swashbuckling attacking imparing on people's judgement or what?

I mean wtf?!

</rant>

 

[Rich_H_1989]

I'm beginning to find the caf tiresome lately with the constant need to find fault in the team in any given scenario. We are always lucky to win our games but that never applies the opposition when we lose or draw.

Thing is I've said all along for me it's not about winning. I don't mind us losing I just want us to play good entertaining football. Of course that doesn't mean I want us to be relegated but I want to enjoy watching the team again.

I don't know maybe it's because my love for the game has gone completely. Maybe it's because the only reason I still watch any football is because of United. Because I don't watch any other team and even now I don't always watch United.

Take Sunday for example. I watched the Miami Dolphins against the New York Jets rather than United vs Arsenal. A huge game in our season and I chose to watch the American football game on the TV whilst for 30 minutes having United on my phone. If it weren't for United I wouldn't even be able to tell you who was top and how teams were doing.

So maybe my negative outlook on united stems from just finding football in general boring. Maybe because I find American football more exciting I can't get excited by football? But I'm sure football was a lot more entertaining 8-10 years ago...

 

[Escobar]

That though I'm afraid is a matter of opinion! I don't not think I've seen any kind of improvement. Now others may well feel that there has been and that's their opinion but I don't. I don't have a grudge against LVG so to suggest so is a bit ridiculous! Why would I? The guy has never done anything to upset us as fans. And he took us from 7th to 4th which I guess is an achievement. But I don't like this boring football we play under him and I never will.

Which football would you prefer then? Moyes cross-at-whatever-football or Fergie's last years without any midfield, poor line-ups and dull football? It's been too long since United really played attractive football, it's not that LVG came in and suddenly we were boring.
Last season, we had brilliant games against top clubs (Liverpool, City, etc.) that showed clearly that there is an improvement. We as a team and the players itself too

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

good post.

I liked how we played last season...well most of it. This season all the games were sluggish. And losing to an Arsenal team I dont really rate...well that broke my back. I hope you are right. It will be very interesting how he approaches the next few matches and the one at Anfield should be very revealing.

Yeh I think a lot of what LVG has done and continuous to do will play out in the next few weeks, if we can come through that looking good then I don't think we will look back.

 

[sajeev]

Which football would you prefer then? Moyes cross-at-whatever-football or Fergie's last years without any midfield, poor line-ups and dull football? It's been too long since United really played attractive football, it's not that LVG came in and suddenly we were boring.
Last season, we had brilliant games against top clubs (Liverpool, City, etc.) that showed clearly that there is an improvement. We as a team and the players itself too

that isn't true and we played much more exciting football and could attack at will.
Apart from 2008-09, we have always played with the intent and ability to attack, under Fergie, and midfield didn't matter.

At best we have had around 5 matches out of around 50 matches where we played good football under LvG, a slight improvement over Moyes under whom we played say 3 matches well

As for LvG, we have to wait a bit more to see what he can actually deliver, but to just put it out saying that he is laying foundations is a cop-out which doesn't give credit to managers who are as accomplished or even better.

 

[Rich_H_1989]

Which football would you prefer then? Moyes cross-at-whatever-football or Fergie's last years without any midfield, poor line-ups and dull football? It's been too long since United really played attractive football, it's not that LVG came in and suddenly we were boring.
Last season, we had brilliant games against top clubs (Liverpool, City, etc.) that showed clearly that there is an improvement. We as a team and the players itself too

I never said that I enjoyed Moyes football and in his latter years Fergies teams weren't as exciting as they had been. The difference is with Fergie our teams went out with the intent of attacking but our players weren't good enough in a lot of cases.

I did also say it's been maybe 10 or so years since we played great football. My point was maybe I am being harsh on united... Maybe actually it's because football in general bores the pants off me. It used to be exciting and maybe nothing in football has changed and it's just me. I didn't used to like red wine and now I do so tastes change. But I certainly remember more attacking exciting football in years gone by. These days it's all about defense because managers are under pressure to deliver.

 

[CG1010]

I'm personally really disappointed that so many back LVG. A year ago or so I was having a conversation with a couple of United and Arsenal fans about the state of the United team and how little Arsenal were winning.

At the time I said there was no way that United or Arsenal fans would accept a manager who doesn't play attractive attacking football. Everyone agreed with me. Well here we are a year later and apparently the 2 bare years have changed our fans opinion and that's disappointing!

Things style wise are not going to improve under LVG. They haven't in the last year and they won't in the coming months. Maybe results will be good and maybe we'll be near the top but we won't do so by playing good football. And I tell you what we're about to sit back and watch our most hated rivals drastically improve and play good football in the process. Add to that the good attacking football City play and it's a pretty sad image.

I think we would see a mix of good and bad with LVG and even if we win a title this or the next year, our football would only be brilliant in flashes and it would be a bit flat otherwise.

But I do back LVG. Just the state of our squad was absolutely garbage. We had a lower PL level midfield, all our defenders were young, injury prone and/or had no confidence in their abilities, our team's talisman (RVP) had stopped bothering after winning his PL trophy, our other talisman was(is) more interested in politics than football, and our other world class player has shown a desire to leave.

LVG has solved most of these problems and also replaced our non-performing superstars with some very talented young players. If these develop as planned (and we are due a break after several years of successive failures), then our team would be set for the next 5-6 years, if not more. The quality of our game has improved drastically. I would give LVG a rating of 6.5 or 7 out of 10 on his United stint till now.

 

[Escobar]

that isn't true and we played much more exciting football and could attack at will.
Apart from 2008-09, we have always played with the intent and ability to attack, under Fergie, and midfield didn't matter.

At best we have had around 5 matches out of around 50 matches where we played good football under LvG, a slight improvement over Moyes under whom we played say 3 matches well

As for LvG, we have to wait a bit more to see what he can actually deliver, but to just put it out saying that he is laying foundations is a cop-out which doesn't give credit to managers who are as accomplished or even better.

Our midfield was non-existent for too long. We even had to bring Scholes back at one point. Yes we made up for that in a different way and won trophies, but to say we've been playing great football under Fergie all the time is just not true

 

[Question234]

You're playing way more exciting football than we did in van Gaal's 2nd season at the club. Maybe you should see that as a positive development?

Come on now this is a stretch, the same complaints that were made about LVG's footy at bayern are very similar to the ones being launched at him now.

recycled possession without purpose, lack of creativity and penetration in attack etc etc.

Whereas i don't think he's as bad as some like to make out the football could do with a fair amount of fine tuning. The team still moves the ball far too slow which is suicide in the prem.

 

[Red Dreams]

in summary, buying Bastian and Morgan has Not solved our midfield problems right?

..or is it just how we have used them?

 

[Rich_H_1989]

in summary, buying Bastian and Morgan has Not solved our midfield problems right?

..or is it just how we have used them?

Morgan has been brilliant I think. He's very much understated because of the role that he plays but he's been superb. That was as evident as ever in the Arsenal game. OK he can and will improve but he's been good. I think the main criticism of him is that his passing hasn't yet been as good as we had thought. But when he's played alongside Schweinsteiger I don't think it's as obvious. He tends to struggle with Carrick though.

Schweinsteiger has done OK. He's not looked 100% fit at times but he's done well in some games. He uses the ball very well and more than anything it's his use of the ball and the experience he brings to the team. I think we'd like to see more from him but given time I think we will.

 

[Question234]

I'm basing this on a number of things. Firstly, his history as a manager shows that in his career he has brought through many top youngsters and has laid the foundations for the two best teams in the world (Barca, Bayern). I also think that despite what people say, possession football when played well is the best football tactic in the world again as is highlighted by the domination of Bayern and Barca. Now obviously we are still alittle bit short if that quality but I think we have players in, Memphis, martial ,shaw etc that can all reach that top,top level and get us up to those teams.

Secondly, I think people underestimate just home much work LVG has done to make us a defensive unit, I personally think we have one of the most solid units in the league right now (Arsenal game aside) and u do think over the course of the whole season that will once agin prove to be the case. Now it's because of the improvement in the defensive game that makes me think that the attacking side of the game will come sooner rather than later. For me personally we have seen glimpses of this teams attacking potential and I think with further work and maybe a start player addition(Bale, Griezman etc) I think we could suddenly see our attack explode into life. Despite what people say at the moment, LVG does build solid, but exciting attacking teams and that's where Utd are heading.

In my opinion, we are in a waiting stage; at this time we need to wait for the talent that we possess to come to fruition as it will over the next few years, (perhaps even after LVG has gone). We are currently standing at a landmark, that I think will be looked at as huge in utds history. Similar to 2003-4 when young Ronaldo and Rooney were developing and it was just the case of waiting for the tree to bear fruit I think we stand at a similar point. Perhaps I'm being far too optimistic, perhaps these players won't develop, but I see potential in this team and its style to get right to the top of football again with the right patience and clever moves.

No he doesn't. He builds solid, well drilled and disciplined teams but it always takes another manager to build on his teachings and bring out his teams exciting attacking potential.

This was exactly the case at bayern/barca (2nd term), aside from his time at ajax people have ALWAYS complained about LVG's football being too methodical and not entertaining. It's why he only lasted a year at bayern. He has a great eye for youth and he will leave behind a good team, I just don't see the attacking aspect of our play getting better under LVG. We still move the ball at a very slow pace, even when trying to switch play. Something we really really need to work on, movement opens up teams.

I don't buy the argument about the players getting better will make everything click going forward. LVG had a young muller + robben, ribery, lahm, gomez and schewinsteger and still lost his job because the fans and higher ups didn't like the style of football being played, among other issues.

 

[RDCR07]

Arsenal play the same possession football but why is it that they move the ball around so much quicker and hence they are more effective?

 

[Oneunited26]

Come on now this is a stretch, the same complaints that were made about LVG's footy at bayern are very similar to the ones being launched at him now.

recycled possession without purpose, lack of creativity and penetration in attack etc etc.

Whereas i don't think he's as bad as some like to make out the football could do with a fair amount of fine tuning. The team still moves the ball far too slow which is suicide in the prem.

And the most concerning part of your comment, that Bayern side had robben and ribery. If VG could not get the side to create and penetrate with those 2 on the flanks, what's going to change at United?

 

[JohnnyLaw]

Arsenal play the same possession football but why is it that they move the ball around so much quicker and hence they are more effective?

The fact that they've been working toward that for something like a decade whilst we've for a little over a season?

 

[roykeane19]

After 1.5 years our football is still brain dead in the final third, if it wasnt for a 19 year old martial bailing us out a few times, our league position would be a lot lower, and LVG `s job would probably be in jeopardy. I dont get it, hes spent so much and yet the squad is very thin on quality, especially on the bench

Worst part is Herrera was probably one of our standout players from last season, has been totally benched

 

[VanGaalEra]

After 1.5 years our football is still brain dead in the final third, if it wasnt for a 19 year old martial bailing us out a few times, our league position would be a lot lower, and LVG `s job would probably be in jeopardy. I dont get it, hes spent so much and yet the squad is very thin on quality, especially on the bench

Worst part is Herrera was probably one of our standout players from last season, has been totally benched

Yeah, how dare injury bench him!

 

[JPRouve]

After 1.5 years our football is still brain dead in the final third, if it wasnt for a 19 year old martial bailing us out a few times, our league position would be a lot lower, and LVG `s job would probably be in jeopardy. I dont get it, hes spent so much and yet the squad is very thin on quality, especially on the bench

Worst part is Herrera was probably one of our standout players from last season, has been totally benched

He spent a lot to replace none performing players and retired players. He didn't add on the team we had before his arrival, it's not an excuse but it's what happened. Personally I find it disappointing that we aren't able to sign cheap players.

 

[Spock]

It seems to me that Everton are at their best on the counterattack. We're a possession football side but we're still stuck in second gear most of the time and aren't really impressing anyone, including opposing back lines.

We should sit back and force them to try to break us down with their possession. Everton just don't have the quality to string 15-20 passes together and create a scoring chance. They'll lose possession in the middle third at some point and when they do we've got the speed in Memphis and Martial to hit them on the counter. Everton punished us last season when we lost possession -- let us seek revenge in kind.

Looking ahead to bottom half clubs we can continue to work on our possession game, but against top clubs we need to be realistic about what's achievable at least until we've sorted out the problems at the 10 position.

 

[Rich_H_1989]

Today is huge I think for LVG. With City coming up next week he needs to get a positive result and show he's learnt something from the Arsenal game.

It's been discussed to death so let's not go in to that game but his tactics were all wrong. And that Everton have the weapons and the style to really hurt us. They've got pace and power and will look to hit us on the break.

We need to sit a little bit deeper, soak up the pressure and hit them on the break. We've got pace in the team with Memphis, Martial and even Valencia. Plus Mata has the skill and ability to pick out key passes to enable a swift break.

After the disaster that was our last game we need to respond. Defeat today will have all us against LVG with our knives out again. And then that starts to make the City game must win.

Trying to control possession today will see the same result that the Arsenal game did. So today we've got to set up differently. If we do that and soak up pressure then I don't see Everton having the quality to break us down.

 

[Lawman]

After 1.5 years our football is still brain dead in the final third, if it wasnt for a 19 year old martial bailing us out a few times, our league position would be a lot lower, and LVG `s job would probably be in jeopardy. I dont get it, hes spent so much and yet the squad is very thin on quality, especially on the bench

Worst part is Herrera was probably one of our standout players from last season, has been totally benched

I'm a Herrera fan but he's been poor when starting this year.

 

[K2K]

When we do get a manager that will play more attractive football and also allows us to challenge consistently, we will savour it. We havent had that for a while, but as Giggs said , the good times will come back, eventually.

Patience people.

 

[Mindhunter]

He has got a lot stick but credit where due. He had mixed it up very well today and managed to instill some speed and purpose in our play.

This is the most entertaining we have played in a while.

 

[Randall Flagg]

He got it spot on

The players looked around 10 times fitter than Everton today too

 

[Kag]

He got it wrong against Arsenal. He got it spot on today. Credit where credit is due.

This team has a nack of winning games when it matters most and I think Van Gaal has a lot to do with that.

 

[Silverman]

LVG is a top manager and not once have I doubted that..........Im not saying we are world beaters but we have a very strong unit built.

 

[Eyepopper]

Wow, LVG actually knows what he's doing, who'd have thunk.


He deserves massive credit, not only for the set up but picking the squad up after the Arsenal result and getting them to perform like that given that he only had a limited time with them.

 

[Ainu]

I thought his Lingard sub was pretty good, his pace helped us on the counter and he offered a good outlet out wide. Mata offers better control in possession but with Everton predictably going for it in the second half he would've been less effective.

 

[sammsky1]

LVG deserves huge credit. He got the formation, tactics and team selection spot on.

Im guessing this is exactly the kind of football his philosophy can produce when delivered according to instructions. Despite the odd mishap (Arsenal), its very evident that his squad is now quickly becoming attuned to his philosophy and will only get better and better at delivering it as the season progresses.

I'm quietly confident that we are now seeing the stage 1 of the post SAF revolution.

 

[DevilRed]

I thought his Lingard sub was pretty good, his pace helped us on the counter and he offered a good outlet out wide. Mata offers better control in possession but with Everton predictably going for it in the second half he would've been less effective.

Love seeing our academy players get game time. Although im curious as to why Depay wasn't thrown on to play right wing. He would have been perfect to stretch the everton defence.

Commentator mentioned that Blind and Depay were both benched because of the poor showing from Holland. Bizarre.

 

[Moonred]

Of course he deserves credit. We are still going to lose, and have bad performances both tactically and players will have off days. We were really good today.

 

[Red Dreams]

I'm basing this on a number of things. Firstly, his history as a manager shows that in his career he has brought through many top youngsters and has laid the foundations for the two best teams in the world (Barca, Bayern). I also think that despite what people say, possession football when played well is the best football tactic in the world again as is highlighted by the domination of Bayern and Barca. Now obviously we are still alittle bit short if that quality but I think we have players in, Memphis, martial ,shaw etc that can all reach that top,top level and get us up to those teams.

Secondly, I think people underestimate just home much work LVG has done to make us a defensive unit, I personally think we have one of the most solid units in the league right now (Arsenal game aside) and u do think over the course of the whole season that will once agin prove to be the case. Now it's because of the improvement in the defensive game that makes me think that the attacking side of the game will come sooner rather than later. For me personally we have seen glimpses of this teams attacking potential and I think with further work and maybe a start player addition(Bale, Griezman etc) I think we could suddenly see our attack explode into life. Despite what people say at the moment, LVG does build solid, but exciting attacking teams and that's where Utd are heading.

In my opinion, we are in a waiting stage; at this time we need to wait for the talent that we possess to come to fruition as it will over the next few years, (perhaps even after LVG has gone). We are currently standing at a landmark, that I think will be looked at as huge in utds history. Similar to 2003-4 when young Ronaldo and Rooney were developing and it was just the case of waiting for the tree to bear fruit I think we stand at a similar point. Perhaps I'm being far too optimistic, perhaps these players won't develop, but I see potential in this team and its style to get right to the top of football again with the right patience and clever moves.

I just want to bring up this post by TrustInJanuzai again. Very well reasoned. I had been frustrated by the way we have played in the first 8 matches. But the way we strated and ended the match has made me renew my faith in LvG.

 

[legball]

Picked the right players, deployed the most suitable formation, he got it absolutely spot on.

 

[::sonny::]

The line up today was right

After I saw it, I was quite sure about the victory.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

The team he played was the team most have been calling for this season, but i'm glad Van Gaal played it today and that we put in a good performance. It means that we should be seeing it a lot more often, hopefully.

 

[soap]

Got it spot on today. I have to eat my words in saying he was gonna stubbornly stick with Blind at CB purely because that's his brainchild despite the obvious mismatch that would have meant with Lukaku. The energy and steel of Herrera and Morgan in the middle was exactly what we needed for this game.