We need to get Di Maria back playing centrally otherwise we overpaid dramatically for him, more I look at the squad the bigger the job it looks for LVG, I always assumed he would eventually like to have us playing 4-3-3 or a slight variation but we have so many players who don’t fit in to that formation (some of them big names) that it looks a long way off. At the moment it looks like he is trying to make the most of what he has, pick the players first and then the system but I think longer term he should be looking to implement a system and bring in the players to make it work, those that don’t fit we need to get shot of, rotation options and a plan B are great but first and foremost we need a balanced, consistent and successful starting line up and we need to recruit players who solve problems rather than paper over cracks.
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We need to get Di Maria back playing centrally otherwise we overpaid dramatically for him, more I look at the squad the bigger the job it looks for LVG, I always assumed he would eventually like to have us playing 4-3-3 or a slight variation but we have so many players who don’t fit in to that formation (some of them big names) that it looks a long way off. At the moment it looks like he is trying to make the most of what he has, pick the players first and then the system but I think longer term he should be looking to implement a system and bring in the players to make it work, those that don’t fit we need to get shot of, rotation options and a plan B are great but first and foremost we need a balanced, consistent and successful starting line up and we need to recruit players who solve problems rather than paper over cracks.
Yep, that's the one I got through reading about a month ago. Loved it. Great insight as to what #Philosophy entails.
Louis van Gaal - "I am training in another way than most of the other managers are doing. I train players in their brains."
To be honest we aren't a million miles a way from a 4-3-3, but it seems some decisions were made around the 3-5-2 we were trying early on and injuries. These decisions included the signings we made, making Rooney captain as a striker and loaning Nani out as width would be provided by the full backs. A 4-3-3 could easily be played with Blind Carrick and Di Maria behind Nani Januzaj and Rooney, with Herrera for Carrick in the easier games.
However with the current player's we have it makes sense to me to have: 3 players classed at No 10 or No 9 (either as a 2-1 or a 1-2) and 3 player's classed as central midfielders (either a 1-2 or flat 3). This is because we have a few very good number 10's and a few very good number 9's, along with our best player being perfect as the most attacking of 3 central midfielders.
This essentially leaves: The diamond formation, the 3-5-2 (or 5-3-2) and an Xmas tree formation. I believe Van Gaal started with the 3-5-2 as on paper it fits everyone in: Di Maria in central midfield, good width with attacking full backs, 2 top strikers and a top number 10. Unfortunately this didn't work at all defensively so we tried the diamond, which again had some defensive flaws. This is why I believe the 4-3-2-1 is the perfect balance.
As an aside it'll never happen but I believe a 3-5-2 with Shaw, Rafael and 3 fit first team CB's would have been a completely different proposition to the formation with Lingard/Januzaj/Young/Valencia as wing backs. I suppose it'd be more a 5-3-2.
The big problem with any formation that involves 3 CB’s is we struggle to get 2 on the pith let alone 3 and I also think the big problems with the diamond we were playing or the solution of playing 4-3-2-1 is the lack of pace up front. To make either of those work you need one quick forward who is able to run at people in wide positions and we just don’t have that but to be fair that is a problem we seem to have in any formation.
My point about the 4-3-3 was mainly going forward for next season, if we play with one forward you can’t keep all 3 of Rooney, RVP and Falcao, you can’t play Rooney and Mata wide, if you play one of them you then need someone very quick who is prepared to track back on the other wing and anyway neither are at their best there etc etc. it’s just a wider issue of should we be looking to add a couple of new players to balance what we have or is LVG going to insist on overhauling the squad completely. However we line up at the moment I always feel we are just plugging holes, it was the same under Moyes and even in last few years under SAF and I would just like to see that come to an end.
Chelsea have good players but they are also a team that has been assembled to play a certain style, players have been recruited to play their role in the formation, everyone is playing in a role that suits their strengths and they have the attributes that the manager wants for that position. I think few people would regard Willian as a better player than Mata but he was signed instead of Mata because he was a better fit and does what Mourinho wants him to do rather than Mourinho trying to find a way to integrate Mata.
I agree with most of that. The one thing I think we do have in our favour is Di Maria provides pace, width and penetration from central midfield, which means that we don't need as much pace up front (as we saw time and time again against Leicester, QPR, West Ham & Everton). I also think when Falcao has played he has stretched the defense a little more than RVP (not saying the former is rapid, but he does enough to open gaps).
Obviously I think if we bought someone like Reus and brought back Nani for example we could change our entire system to a pacey 4-3-3, but at the same time would be wasting the likes of RVP, Mata and Falcao (if bought). To me that seems to be quite a radical overhaul for such a short period of time. I think it seems much more logical to manipulate the player's we have, which although not pacey are very adept at playing a quick paced game (I suppose the Van Gaal (paraphrased) statement of "a ball can travel faster than any player".
In the medium term I think this needs to be our system (based around movement opening up spaces, rather than sheer pace). I firmly believe that with Herrera and Di Maria in the middle (along with Blind), their movement and ability to carry the ball will override a lack of pace (as Fabregas/Matic/Oscar do with Chelsea, none of whom are quick, but all are fluid and have great movement & passing ability). The only thing missing from a squad adopting this "philosophy" would be a top class central defender (which we require regardless).
I think a radical overhaul of attacking players is definitely what we need though and the next two windows are probably the time to do it. The midfield is heading in the right direction and as you say Di Maria alongside Herrera and Blind or Carrick with another couple of players as different options will make us very competitive there. What you say about Chelsea is true but they have pace and players who can beat men in the final third, Costa, Hazard and Willian are all quick and that opens up space for their midfield by forcing teams deeper, it is the opposite for us as teams can condense the play and limit the space for Di Maria to run in to, exploiting the space between the defence and midfield is where he really comes into his own in that position.
If you look at the Everton game they were able to push right up the pitch knowing there was no threat of any of our front three catching them out for pace, if they tried that against City or Chelsea it would be a much bigger gamble. We are a very slow and pedestrian side at times and even though we are moving the ball better it makes us easier to defend against when the three players up front are all pretty slow.
Whatever formation we end up using at least 2 of Mata, Rooney, RVP or Falcao need to make way for a couple of players who are more dynamic and add pace to the side otherwise we will struggle to play Di Maria in his best position and we will be slightly one dimensional.
Id love to know how Van Gaal is finding the challenge of managing us and how it compares with other big clubs he has worked with. Whether the state he has found us in is a) worse than he expected and b) worse than what he found at Bayern, for example. And that in terms of squad balance, the competence of the players in his squad, the quality of the kids to promote and perhaps most importantly how injury prone so many of his players are.
Plus at Bayern he didn't have to deal with a domestic league with this much strength and depth. Would he have been similarly successful had he had to get past a couple of teams like Chelsea and City, all the while battling Arsenal and Liverpool?
I have every faith in LvG, but I wish we'd have a set system and starting 11.
Look at Chelsea. You can name pretty much what their best 11 is, and how they will line up. The consistent line up helps players a lot.
Look at Chelsea. You can name pretty much what their best 11 is, and how they will line up. The consistent line up helps players a lot.
That will happen when we have our best players available for selection.
Will it though? I'm not convinced he has his ideal system.
Take Chelsea for example. Even if Hazard, or Fabregas, or Costa their best players were out, they'd play 4-2-3-1 regardless. Everyone has a role in the side.
I think it will, he's still not had the chance to play with a settled team because of the unrelenting injuries we've had. Once the injuries settle down (yeah right) I'm sure he'll figure out what his best 11 and system will be.
Chelsea have a very settled side and it shows in the league table.
But LVG has been in charge of the club for 11 premiership games and has had endless injuries to deal with...fielding a settle side has been impossible so far.
But LVG has been in charge of the club for 11 premiership games and has had endless injuries to deal with...fielding a settle side has been impossible so far.
For what it's worth, this quote is from Sinouh, who is an utter dickhead. I'd have more faith in anything Muhammad Saeed al-Sahhaf says.
Don't be too hung up on a system. It is not about what pretty patterns players make on the pitch at the starting whistle, it is about knowing what to do in your specified role. It's not table football.
I am not convinced I still think whatever starting eleven and formation you put out the balance and personnel isn’t quite right and isn’t what the manager would want, I think it will take the next couple of windows to really sort that issue out and in the meantime it will be a case of trying to find something that works and asking players to play positions/roles that aren’t their best and there will be a lot of shoe horning big names to try and accommodate them.
Our recruitment policy is totally dependent on the manager and it is no surprise that with three different managers in a short period we have ended up with a squad that is unbalanced and too many players who want to play in the same position.
Oh definitely agree about that.
Same applies to his stint in Spain.
If Pellegrini and Mancini can do it, LVG certainly can.
That would be good but the journalists will ask questions on 'who is injured?', 'your 3 months are up?', 'you have a bad defence?', 'has juan mata given you a selection headache?' and soon 'strootman how much?'.
'sworn enemy'
The Mata selection headache is always a good one for me. It's what I want to ask. I mean, we're all in the dark, pretty much. We don't know what's going on behind the scenes. But here we have a few moments with the man who really knows what's going on with our club, we don't want to waste them, we need to think carefully about what we ask. And if you weigh it all up, if there's one thing that I'm absolutely busting to know, it's: is it quite nice when you have more than one player on form competing for one position? Cause let's face it, you never know. He might well feel the best scenario is one where certain people are injured or playing shit and his team picks itself. Options might be something he prefers to avoid. How would we know unless someone asks him on telly?
Well he answered that question in his post match interview so I think his answer will be the same as often it is when questions are repeated.
"I have given Mata the chance but also to other players, who we have as our 11 later in the season we will see"
And I think it would be something similar again, he also refuses to name who will play the next game other than the captain.
Response to receiving the coach of the year nomination "It's unbelievable when you see the results of Manchester United -- it's unbelievable." - great to know he doesn't have his head in the sand.
http://www.espnfc.us/spanish-primer...lon-dor-not-cristiano-ronaldo-or-lionel-messi
http://www.espnfc.us/spanish-primer...lon-dor-not-cristiano-ronaldo-or-lionel-messi
To the death … and beyond
Are we seriously playing 3-5-2 again?
Certainly looks like it.
Yup, although it seems purely a tactical adjustment, so I don't mind. I pray we aren't going back to it though.
Can't shake the feeling that whatever his reputation elsewhere since he's come to united his team selections have been based on getting rvp and Rooney up top more often than not, than what could give the strongest team
Rooney has rarely played up top under Van Gaal.
We were horrible with a 3-5-2. I don't see what can change now, espeically with Smalling and 2 very inexperienced CB's at the back. We're fecked.
Horribly negative lineup today.
This was a problem last season and remains so now. Very irritating.
Van Gaal will get hammered if we lose today.
Big gamble by LvG this.
Play 352 today and lose and he's gonna face more pressure than he has done thus far.
Playing the 352 again, against a team we're directly competing with for top 4 draws a lot of the attention on himself.
At least Di Maria may be in a more central position. That's quite positive at least. Not too impressed overall though, but I'll see what happens today.
He's treat as untouchable by some on here but I'm really not impressed with him so far at all. He hasn't done a good job and I don't think he's the man to rebuild us. If Moyes had lost the way we did at Leicester and MK dons he would've been slated straight to hell but LVG seems to have a free pass.
Moyes had more points at this stage the big difference is Moyes didn't spend £150 million. Also last year teams were getting results. This year our challengers such as Everton, Liverpool, spurs and arsenal etc are just as bad as us. If those teams were getting the results of last year there's every possibility we would be in the bottom half of the table currently. We've been so fortunate with other teams results,
I realise Moyes was not the man to take us forward but we are in no better position now than we were last season.
Regardless of if we beat arsenal today, There's no sugar coating the fact LVG has failed so far.
Moyes had more points at this stage the big difference is Moyes didn't spend £150 million. Also last year teams were getting results. This year our challengers such as Everton, Liverpool, spurs and arsenal etc are just as bad as us. If those teams were getting the results of last year there's every possibility we would be in the bottom half of the table currently. We've been so fortunate with other teams results,
I realise Moyes was not the man to take us forward but we are in no better position now than we were last season.
Regardless of if we beat arsenal today, There's no sugar coating the fact LVG has failed so far.
He's going to get either massive praise for this or massive negativity.
Injuries or no injuries
Only Van Gaal is the reason if we lose this match.......3-5-2 was awful and is still awful.....Van Gaal hasn't learned from his mistakes
Only Van Gaal is the reason if we lose this match.......3-5-2 was awful and is still awful.....Van Gaal hasn't learned from his mistakes
Agreed. Wtf is this? If we continue this way, I don't think we'll get top 4 which will be a disaster.
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