I'm not disputing any of that. All I'm saying is I can't really see who we should've brought in instead.
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Defenders rarely make a name before they prove themselves at a big club. Vidic and Stam weren't really renowned outside Russia/Serbia and Holland before we snapped him up, Benatia was signed by Udinese on a free transfer and them moved to Roma for around 11m while Thiago Silva was considering retirement before Fluminese snapped him up paving the way for AC Milan and then stardom. We need to start unearthing these raw gems once again, ie defenders with the right attitude to succeed with United and would actually pass much of the time on the pitch rather then away from it.
Just had a look at Palace's results this season. So far they only lost by a single goal against Chelsea, Arsenal and Everton and none of those sides kept a clean sheet against them. So our scoreline looks ok in this context.
I cant understand with United recent obsession of having so many quality forwards. SAF had Kagawa, Rooney and RVP despite knowing fully well that our midfield could never support that. Moyes went on to get Mata and LVG added Falcao to the fray. Id say we should invest Falcao's money on a quality DM (Vidal?) and play 4-4-1-1 with Vidal and Herrera in CM, Di Maria and Valencia on the flanks (Valencia being pretty defensive) and Mata and Rooney upfront.
I understand the gist of your post but I don't think the negatives are really LVG's faults.
a) I don't recall that 3-5-2 was used much after the transfer window ended. You could argue that he realize it didn't work or you could also say that before he could get the players he wanted the team was unbalanced and he was trying to fit the players into a system. We had the usual CBs out and we had to play Blackett. There was no Carrick or Blind to use as temp CBs and also Shaw was out.
b) How do you over- or underestimate how injury prone a person is? Should he have assumed maybe that everyone is injury prone and we should have 3 covers for each position? That is pure bad luck or in any case I think maybe the club overestimates our medical facilities.
c) This has been debated many times. Being on the touch line doesn't have correlation with the results - the players need to learn and play the system. Recall that when Leicester beat us their manager was seated the whole time. If he hops up and down on the touchline, the players might get more confused as they are trying to adapt to a new system.
d) Di Maria is going through a bad patch too. Should we drop him? Perhaps it is not so much favoritism but the least of evils we have. Maybe Rooney is not showing enough in training - his touch and shooting hasn't looked the best so far. Falcao is injured. At least Wilson gets to play so he isn't oblivious to RVP's form but perhaps there isn't a better alternative. Look in the Januzaj thread, 3 weeks ago many posters were clamouring for him to start but after 3 poor games posters are saying he should be dropped. How then does a player play himself into form?
LVG brought in Blind, Herrera and Di Maria if you want to count him as a midfielder. Im also pretty sure if it wasnt for the knee thing Vidal would be playing for us. Also, Blind and Carrick are DMs, Vidal isnt a DM. Him and Herrera are similar players actually. I dont know why people always bring up Vidal when talking about a DM. You see the whole tempo controlling, dropping in between CB's thing Blind and Carrick do? Vidal wouldn't do that.
Blind has probably been our most consistent player this season if you take away De Gea.
PS, Valencia? Please no, I hope that nightmare is over.
I've been saying for the last few weeks that we could make the diamond more defensively solid by tweaking it into a 4-3-2-1. You could make it very attacking or far more defensively solid:
Attacking:
Herrera Blind Di Maria
___Mata Rooney
______RVP
Defensive:
Carrick Blind Fellaini
__Herrera Di Maria
_____Rooney
Both formations have our best player Di Maria playing in his best more centrally position and hopefully imposing himself more (albeit further forward in the second iteration). Obviously there are several personnel changes that could make it be made to change the game (e.g. in the second example change Fellaini for Mata and drop Herrera back if we are chasing a goal). Trying to use a system with wingers when Januzaj has looked consistently out of sorts and Di Maria has looked far better centrally doesn't make sense to me.
Doubt Van Gaal will ever be the kind of guy to stick his head in the sand and pretend he's not made a few errors. That drove me insane last season with Moyes continually on the defensive no matter what happened.
He has the balls to try things though, which a lot of you should be appreciative of, never mind crucifying him for trying different formations etc.
I beg to differ. Vidal is more defensive and stronger then Herrera. He's the closest player to our own Roy Keane. Having him alongside Herrera will ooze the midfield with the perfect mix of energy and class. There will be days when a 3 men CM with Carrick, Blind or Fellaini would be more appropriate. However a 4-4-1-1 system with Vidal and Herrera/Blind in CM with Valencia and Di Maria on the flanks and Mata + Rooney would serve us well in normal games.
My point is that we need to balance between our defensive and attacking duties. Look at how imbalanced our team is. We've got Falcao, RVP, Rooney, Mata and Di Maria all demanding a first team place. No team in the world can ever support that. Not to forget that this squad lack of pace. Quick counters was one of the main reasons why SAF's sides were so devastating and yet this is probably one of the slowest squads we ever had
Regarding Valencia, well, he is a necessary evil similar to what Ji Sung Park and Fortune were before him. The guy can tuck in the midfield and do the donkey work which would allow Di Maria more freedom to work his magic.
Interesting comments from Van Gaal reiterating the fact he switched formations to help protect the defence, and the injuries are also playing a part in his formation choice.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...0-defeat-of-Crystal-Palace.html#disqus_thread
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...0-defeat-of-Crystal-Palace.html#disqus_thread
Let put things clear. I am not Anti LVG. I am confident that he will turn things around and there are a substantial number of positive actions which support that.
a) I dont blame him for the 3-5-2 system. It worked for him with Holland (who had a very average side) so it was only fair he would have tried to emulate it at United. Nevertheless more knowledge about the EPL would have been enough to acknowledge that such system had never worked in the EPL. Its only fair to conclude that this is further proof that LVG had little prior knowledge about the EPL which is only fair considering that he never worked in England
b) That's easy. One had to check how many times these players were out with injury. Having said that I am not really blaming everything on LVG either. The manager did appointed someone within the club to give him an insight of the players in place. Whether that insight was wrong or LVG decided to take the issue lightly remain into question
c) Well let agree to disagree on that. I still believe that a manager should be close to his men especially when things are getting tough. However I acknowledge that this is down to opinion
d) Favoritism has been part of football ever since football started and LVG is not the first manager being accused of it. Having said that, from my experience of watching football it rarely ends up well.
I think he is warranting some unwanted criticism for our league position. Yes we have a solid attack but Herrera and Falcao have missed a few games. Our defense has been a wreck all season. We pretty much play a different back 4 every game and three of them are teenagers. Yet we have conceded only 14 goals and 5 of which came in the Leicester game. We are only 2 points away from the coveted 4th spot. I think we can make it this year, which is ultimately our goal.
This comparison to Moyes is stupid. LVG is better and will come good. Like he said so many times, he is trying to find the right balance and he cant do it until he has all the players back from injury.
This comparison to Moyes is stupid. LVG is better and will come good. Like he said so many times, he is trying to find the right balance and he cant do it until he has all the players back from injury.
I'm liking this 4-1-4-1 formation, it gives us a lot of control in the game. Feck the diamond, it wasn't working and was a very hot/cold formation, our flanks were constantly imposed as well. I think once the players adapt to this formation we could be a great team again, we just need a CDM and a consistent back 4.
I'd love to see this team next season, Pace, Power and skill. I really hope LVG stick with this formation.
------------------------------De Gea-------------------------------
---Rafael-------------Hummels-------Jones-------------Shaw---
--------------------------------Carrick----------------------------
--Nani------------------Vidal--------Rooney-----------Di Maria--
----------------------------------Falcao-----------------------------
I'd love to see this team next season, Pace, Power and skill. I really hope LVG stick with this formation.
------------------------------De Gea-------------------------------
---Rafael-------------Hummels-------Jones-------------Shaw---
--------------------------------Carrick----------------------------
--Nani------------------Vidal--------Rooney-----------Di Maria--
----------------------------------Falcao-----------------------------
Where would we be if Moyes was still in charge.... if he had to deal with the current injury crisis, deary me...
Exactly. And LVG isnt stupidly stubborn. He sees one formation isnt working and is willing to change to make things work.
I definitely have sympathy for his attempts to find balance here given that I can't think of any way we could shape up atm that wouldn't have at least one major weakness.
Our squad is very unbalanced and lacks a real spine. I hate using Chelsea as an example of how to get things right (it happens a bit too often) but in this case they're a clear example of what I'm talking about. Terry, Ivanovic, Matic, Cesc and Costa provide a backbone of quality, character, aggression, cohesion and balance that lets the rest of the team slot in neatly around them. Those players pretty much sum up the identityof the current Chelsea side. In contrast, our spine is probably Rojo, Blind, Di Maria (probably playing out of position) and Rooney. Bit of a difference, I think.
Our squad is very unbalanced and lacks a real spine. I hate using Chelsea as an example of how to get things right (it happens a bit too often) but in this case they're a clear example of what I'm talking about. Terry, Ivanovic, Matic, Cesc and Costa provide a backbone of quality, character, aggression, cohesion and balance that lets the rest of the team slot in neatly around them. Those players pretty much sum up the identityof the current Chelsea side. In contrast, our spine is probably Rojo, Blind, Di Maria (probably playing out of position) and Rooney. Bit of a difference, I think.
I think our squad would probably be more balanced overall but not as good quality wise and we'd probably be playing shite football. I'm guessing we would be lining up something like this:
Cavani
Rooney
Januzaj Carvalho Herrera Mata
Shaw Evans Smalling Jones
De Gea
Its decent, but we would probably be even worse off then now especially if we had the injuries and still playing poorly.Rooney
Januzaj Carvalho Herrera Mata
Shaw Evans Smalling Jones
De Gea
Jones with Hummels? Wouldn't you want someone to offer something different?
I'd prefer Blind in that position, Carrick is too static, and why would you play our best player out of position and include players out on loan?
DDG
Rafael Jones ** Shaw
Blind
ADM Vidal
Januzaj _______Mata
Falcao/Rooney
Yeah we'd probably have lined up like this then for quite a few games if we had the same injuries
:Cavani
Rooney
Januzaj Carvalho Fletcher Mata
Shaw Thorpe M.Keane Valencia
De Gea
Rooney
Januzaj Carvalho Fletcher Mata
Shaw Thorpe M.Keane Valencia
De Gea
He'd probably have signed a centre back or two. Probably a significant upgrade on Smalling and Evans too, even if it was a couple of guys we barely knew of. It's one of his strong points, signing defenders.Yeah we'd probably have lined up like this then for quite a few games if we had the same injuries
Cavani
Rooney
Januzaj Carvalho Fletcher Mata
Shaw Thorpe M.Keane Valencia
De Gea
I also think he would have signed a new RB or even just stuck with Rafa
I would go as far as to say in terms of problems that need solving, once we start converting more of the chances we are creating then we're good to go.
He did speak in the press conference of how he wants to increase the speed of play and also switch play much more often, this should lead to even more chances, but as of now this wastefulness is becoming a tendency, I'm sure Louis van Gaal will find a solution.
Personally would have preferred Maureen to succeed Fergie, but we went down another road and that ship sailed to west London again.saying that I an happy we got LVG, although I still feel his methods will take at least a season to bed in,I just hope the board don't pull the trigger and end his tenure early as I feel given another season and we will start playing his style of football.
Doubt it since Louis van Gaal said he is not happy with the points return because the board have been excellent and shown absolute belief in his methods, he also praised the fans.
I think his history goes in his favour, he will be given time providing the second 19 games show considerable improvement and i think they will.
Replace Fellaini with Carrick.
Replace Rooney with Mata.
Replace Rvp with Rooney.
Replace Januzaj with Herrera.
Manage to make Rafael start.
Do all these things vs Arsenal. We will play good football and also get something out of the game.
After this play Herrera in both the home games. Give Falcao a start in one of those two games. Give Mata a start too. This might mean dropping Rvp and Rooney for at least one game.
We will have the balance and everyone will be back to loving you LvG. Thank me at the end of the season :-).
We need to have at least one out of Mata and Herrera in our line-ups and in some home games, maybe both of them.
Replace Rooney with Mata.
Replace Rvp with Rooney.
Replace Januzaj with Herrera.
Manage to make Rafael start.
Do all these things vs Arsenal. We will play good football and also get something out of the game.
After this play Herrera in both the home games. Give Falcao a start in one of those two games. Give Mata a start too. This might mean dropping Rvp and Rooney for at least one game.
We will have the balance and everyone will be back to loving you LvG. Thank me at the end of the season :-).
We need to have at least one out of Mata and Herrera in our line-ups and in some home games, maybe both of them.
In the league this season:
3 games played with wing backs: 2 points, 2 scored, 3 conceded
4 games played with diamond: 9 points, 11 scored, 7 conceded
4 games played with 1 CF and 2 wingers: 5 points, 4 scored, 4 conceded
By far our best attacking play has been when we've played the diamond and although we conceded the most with that setup, 5 were in one game at Leicester including 2 penalties. The other games we let in 0, 1 and 1. The 4-1-4-1 did work well against Chelsea in stopping Cesc and Matic playing and people will point to the 10 men vs. City. However, we had that one Januzaj chance for all that possession with 11 and we didn't create much vs. Palace either.
3 games played with wing backs: 2 points, 2 scored, 3 conceded
4 games played with diamond: 9 points, 11 scored, 7 conceded
4 games played with 1 CF and 2 wingers: 5 points, 4 scored, 4 conceded
By far our best attacking play has been when we've played the diamond and although we conceded the most with that setup, 5 were in one game at Leicester including 2 penalties. The other games we let in 0, 1 and 1. The 4-1-4-1 did work well against Chelsea in stopping Cesc and Matic playing and people will point to the 10 men vs. City. However, we had that one Januzaj chance for all that possession with 11 and we didn't create much vs. Palace either.
If you're going to include the outlier of conceding 5 in one game, you also need to include the outlier of scoring 4 in another (QPR). At this moment, all are small sample sizes while missing players and playing against different qualities of opposition. I for one think Falcao would shine in a 4-1-4-1 but we're wasting Di Maria's attacking skill. I think LvG will revisit the diamond if/when we can find some solidarity in defense.
I suppose that's fair, what I trying to say with the Leicester game was that I don't think shipping 5 was down to the formation. 2 pens and Rooney and Blind failing to clear terribly for one of them I think.
I'm halfway through a biography of him and I get the feeling we need to keep this guy.
If anyone can put us back at the top, this guy can.
If anyone can put us back at the top, this guy can.
Waiting for the inevitable controversial claims designed to sell the book.
Good grief!If it's true that LVG has a drink problem, he hides it very well behind that shouty, red faced, temperamental demeanour.
Maarten's book?
He didn't play like our best player recently, and in the recent past has done very well from the wing.
I didn't watch Di Maria all that much, but from seeing him at United and reading the comments of our resident Madrid fans the general consensus is... He is a 7/10 player when played out wide, probably worth around £30m and a really good addition to the team, he's a slightly more consistent version of Nani out wide. In the central position last season he stepped up several levels and became a real World Class player; he showed a level that had been previously unknown to him or Madrid fans.
This is reflected by his first 5 games centrally where he was our best player every game, versus the last 4 out wide where he has been somewhere between average and poor, with flashes of good (not a great sample size, but in conjunction with the opinions of Madrid fans seems to illustrate a pattern).
Maarten Meijer. Same guy you mean?
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