Lopez and Sorin to join

Originally posted by Murt:
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Answer the question itchy.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Don't expect anything substantive Murt. He's good at dishing out the complaints about the squad, but weak on specifics about how to improve it.
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Originally posted by Raoul:
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I'm just glad that there's no one like you at OT.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Indeed. Would you say you have a sharp eye for talent spotting?
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Originally posted by Raoul:
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Don't expect anything substantive Murt. He's good at dishing out the complaints about the squad, but weak on specifics about how to improve it.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Perhaps you can share with us on how things can be improved at OT.
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Originally posted by lchk:
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Perhaps you can share with us on how things can be improved at OT.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I wasn't asked the question.
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Originally posted by Murt:
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Just answer the fuchin question ffs.</strong><hr></blockquote>

You're a vulgar short-fused fella aren't you?

Doesn't take much to get you riled up

Your questions:

Where are all these other clubs that are so much better than us @ finding young players?
Dont bring up "past history" players????
How else can we dispute your ridiculous statement?

You mentioned "question". Which one?

Be specific.
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Originally posted by Raoul:
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I wasn't asked the question.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Just want to know your opinion - nothing to do with any questions from murt.
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Originally posted by lchk:
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You're a vulgar short-fused fella aren't you?
Doesn't take much to get you riled up
Your questions:
Where are all these other clubs that are so much better than us @ finding young players?
Dont bring up "past history" players????
How else can we dispute your ridiculous statement?
You mentioned "question". Which one?
Be specific.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Where are all these other clubs that are so much better than us @ finding young players?
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Originally posted by Murt:
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Where are all these other clubs that are so much better than us @ finding young players?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Not so much of other clubs better than us but more of our deterioration in our young players making the grade.

1. Only brown and chadwick can be considered to have broken through. Compare that to the class of '92. O'Shea still a bit too soon to say so.

2. If we aren't producing enough young players of our own, the alternative is obviously to lure some of these youngsters to OT. We have done so and it remains to be seen where the likes of fletcher for example will progress to. But at this moment of time, we have no-one eye-catching that I know of. Certainly not an ashley cole or a kirkland.

After all, even Fergie did mention that he wanted to improve the quality of the youth "conveyor belt".

Now don't shoot me for this, my honest opinion is that I feel things can be improved. My sincere hope is that the appointment of Mellestuen (last season) and Queiroz will see us improve in this area whether it's through better coaching and/or scouting.

What's your opinion about our youth setup? And please refrain from personal abuse.
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Originally posted by Murt:
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Where are all these other clubs that are so much better than us @ finding young players?</strong><hr></blockquote>

West Ham
Liverpool
Leeds
etc

Easier to list the premiership clubs that are worse.
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Originally posted by lchk:
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Not so much of other clubs better than us but more of our deterioration in our young players making the grade.
1. Only brown and chadwick can be considered to have broken through. Compare that to the class of '92. O'Shea still a bit too soon to say so.
2. If we aren't producing enough young players of our own, the alternative is obviously to lure some of these youngsters to OT. We have done so and it remains to be seen where the likes of fletcher for example will progress to. But at this moment of time, we have no-one eye-catching that I know of. Certainly not an ashley cole or a kirkland.
After all, even Fergie did mention that he wanted to improve the quality of the youth "conveyor belt".
Now don't shoot me for this, my honest opinion is that I feel things can be improved. My sincere hope is that the appointment of Mellestuen (last season) and Queiroz will see us improve in this area whether it's through better coaching and/or scouting.
What's your opinion about our youth setup? And please refrain from personal abuse.</strong><hr></blockquote>

For starters no club can be expected to produce the likes of Beckham, Scholes, Giggs, Nevilles, Butt every couple of yrs. Man Utd have been blessed to have and have done it a few more times than most. Ashley Cole is the only decent player Arsenal have produced recently. 8 million Chris Kirkland is a terrible example of a youth product. The fact that no one is doing it better than us shows how hard it is. Over the last 5 yrs weve had lots of players who had every bit as much as potential as Scholes etc but unluckily for them & us the went down the wrong road, im talking about the likes Terry Cooke & John Curtis.
We have presently several eye catching players that are getting the same sort of attention the present crowd were in 92/93 and onwards. Timm, Djordic, Fletcher, Steele, O'Shea, Stewart etc. I would consider Wes Brown, Silvestre (2½ yrs older than Cole), Forlan & O'Shea eyecatching.

Of course Fergie wants to improve every part of the club, what are the other options? Standing still or going backwards.

I think our youth set up and any youth set up can allways do with improving but i dont think were poor in that dept or falling behind others. When Fergie is gone he'll be remembered as a great man for producing young players.
Try and bear in mind that its all hit and miss, you win some you loose some. Beckham & Cooke are good exmples of how it can go each way.
Every season weve had a player or two move closer to the team. Thats acceptable imo.
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Originally posted by fortyseven:
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West Ham
Liverpool
Leeds
etc
Easier to list the premiership clubs that are worse.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Their the latest clubs to have gotten lucky. Of the players from these 3 clubs name how many of them would get into our squad.
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For argument's sake how about four players from each club that have come through their youth ranks...

West Ham - Rio Ferdinand, Jermaine Defoe, Joe Cole, Michael Carrick?

Leeds - Paul Robinson, Alan Smith, Harry Kewell, Jonathan Woodgate?

Liverpool - Michael Owen, Robbie Fowler, Steven Gerrard, Jamie Carragher?

Just throwing some names out there, you know... ;)
 
Originally posted by the reporter:
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West Ham - Rio Ferdinand, Jermaine Defoe, Joe Cole, Michael Carrick? </strong><hr></blockquote>They bought Defoe from Charlton...should've said Frank Lampard. :)
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Originally posted by Murt:
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Every season weve had a player or two move closer to the team. Thats acceptable imo.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Fair enough mate. My biggest regret is seeing Higginbotham leave OT as I felt he was our best defensive prospect and would have solved our full-back cover problem.
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Originally posted by lchk:
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Fair enough mate. My biggest regret is seeing Higginbotham leave OT as I felt he was our best defensive prospect and would have solved our full-back cover problem.</strong><hr></blockquote>

He was ok, but hadnt the patience or will to han garound and fight for his place. Look at the players other clubs are producing, decent players but not all Man Utd regular first team class.
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Originally posted by lchk:
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Fair enough mate. My biggest regret is seeing Higginbotham leave OT as I felt he was our best defensive prospect and would have solved our full-back cover problem.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I'm not being funny lchk, nor arguing for the sake of it, but tell me where did you see Higginbotham? He was a reserve, played perhaps a handful of games for the seniors often as sub. How could you make this judgement on him? I certainly wouldn't be confident in passing judgement on him and the fact that Fergie sold him says it all to me really. If I remember rightly he wasn't even a first team regular at Derby for quite a while.
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Sorin = :D
Lopez = <img src="graemlins/nervous.gif" border="0" alt="[Nervous]" />

I'd rate Sorin but I'm not sold on Lopez. He reminds me of Heskey, full of hard work but no end product. maybe the dippers would buy him, he's certainly in their price range <img src="graemlins/angel.gif" border="0" alt="[Angel]" />
 
Originally posted by Dans:
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I'm not being funny lchk, nor arguing for the sake of it, but tell me where did you see Higginbotham? He was a reserve, played perhaps a handful of games for the seniors often as sub. How could you make this judgement on him? I certainly wouldn't be confident in passing judgement on him and the fact that Fergie sold him says it all to me really. If I remember rightly he wasn't even a first team regular at Derby for quite a while.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Note that I mentioned "full-back cover", not first team material. At the very least, he would have offered us decent cover ie compensate for the loss of irwin until we found better players.
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Originally posted by lchk:
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Note that I mentioned "full-back cover", not first team material. At the very least, he would have offered us decent cover ie compensate for the loss of irwin until we found better players.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Do you seriously rate Danny H higher than Brown?
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Originally posted by Raoul:
<strong>C'mon, say 'Yes' Ichk. ;) </strong><hr></blockquote>
I find it hard to believe that he doesnt think Brown & O'Shea are ready for the Utd squad but he feels danny H would be good as full back cover, meaning he'd be expected to play 10-20 top level games a season.

cause if he is im going to stop being civil ;)
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I mentioned this about sorin and Lopez on 3rd July, and everyone said I was nuts. <img src="graemlins/houllier.gif" border="0" alt="[Houllier]" /> <img src="graemlins/houllier.gif" border="0" alt="[Houllier]" /> <img src="graemlins/houllier.gif" border="0" alt="[Houllier]" />
 
Originally posted by Murt:
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I find it hard to believe that he doesnt think Brown & O'Shea are ready for the Utd squad but he feels danny H would be good as full back cover, meaning he'd be expected to play 10-20 top level games a season.

cause if he is im going to stop being civil ;) </strong><hr></blockquote>

FYI, Brown and O'Shea are "cover" material, just not ready for the first team yet.

C'mon Murt these are just opinions, you're doing fine with this "civil" attitude of yours - it's not worth blowing your top over it
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Originally posted by Raoul:
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What exactly does that mean. Please ellaborate.</strong><hr></blockquote>

That means Brown is better than DH. In plain English. Compredenz?
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Originally posted by Panic Buyer:
<strong>My biggest regret is seeing Higginbotham leave OT as I felt he was our best defensive prospect and would have solved our full-back cover problem. </strong><hr></blockquote>

You said the above last week.

Originally posted by Panic Buyer:
<strong>That means Brown is better than DH. In plain English. Compredenz?</strong><hr></blockquote>

So explain this then. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />
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Originally posted by Raoul:
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So explain this then. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

My mistake. It should have read best defensive prospect bar brown and o'shea.

Sorry to burst your bubble ;)
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Originally posted by lchk:
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That means Brown is better than DH. In plain English. Compredenz?</strong><hr></blockquote>

quite the opposite? So you mean Brown is a lot better than Danny H? Danny H was extremely crap but you regret him leaving and Brown is just plain crap and he should be only used in an emergency.
I think Brown has done more than enough to be called more than a squad player. I would expect him to start at the very least ½ of our games next season providing hes healthy.
I think your basing your opinions of Brown on a few games where their were several crap performances, ie not only Barthez & Brown but Silvestre, Beckham, Scholes, Veron, Giggs etc. You should look at the big picture and not just blamb the defender who plays a man onside or puts too little weight on a backpass. Wes Brown had no more bad performances last yr than Beckham or Scholes. Perhaps they should be used as cover next season too?
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Originally posted by lchk:
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My mistake. It should have read best defensive prospect bar brown and o'shea.

Sorry to burst your bubble ;) </strong><hr></blockquote>

You're digging yourself a deeper ditch by tap dancing around this one Ichk. You had no way of knowing that O'Shea was better than Higginbotham two plus years ago. When did you see O'Shea play enough to warrant him being better than Higginbotham in 2000 ???
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Originally posted by Murt:
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quite the opposite? So you mean Brown is a lot better than Danny H? Danny H was extremely crap but you regret him leaving and Brown is just plain crap and he should be only used in an emergency.
I think Brown has done more than enough to be called more than a squad player. I would expect him to start at the very least ½ of our games next season providing hes healthy.
I think your basing your opinions of Brown on a few games where their were several crap performances, ie not only Barthez & Brown but Silvestre, Beckham, Scholes, Veron, Giggs etc. You should look at the big picture and not just blamb the defender who plays a man onside or puts too little weight on a backpass. Wes Brown had no more bad performances last yr than Beckham or Scholes. Perhaps they should be used as cover next season too?</strong><hr></blockquote>

I never said Brown was crap, just not regular first team material.

The "big picture" is I PERSONALLY feel that Brown won't be a regular centre-half for us. This is no sign of disrespect to him, he has excellent skills - it's just that his mental strength doesn't seem up to mark to me. Beckham actually had an excellent season weighing in with 16 goals. Scholes had a bad start due to him being played out of position. So it's not a straight comparison.

Please note that I am not out to slag off all our young players, I rate O'Shea highly (he hasn't put a foot wrong for us), it's still early days yet.

I like the way you are approaching this little debate, no expletives and no angry tones. Keep it up! :)
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