Looks like Tuchel turned us down, not the other way around according to BILD

Old news. But also should be pointed out, wasn't just Tuchel.

De Zerbi and Ten Hag also both went into negotiations with Ineos this summer and both ended up not agreeing a deal. So we can assume the next permanent manager will be a coach not a control freak.

Whether that's the right approach... who can say. Ashworth has it all to prove.
 
It was absolutely the correct decision not to go with a manager, any manager, who would have wanted total control on squad building. Look at Liverpool under Klopp as a very good example of how these things can run well without having an all-powerful manager.

With De Zerbi I think the rumours in summer were him scoffing at the contract offered, which is a bit strange as I doubt Marseille are paying him some astronomical figure, though of course you want a higher pay when you have this kind of a stressful job.

If this is true then we can rule out Tuchel from any hypothetical discussions about a new manager.
 
hobbers said:
Old news. But also should be pointed out, wasn't just Tuchel.

De Zerbi and Ten Hag also both went into negotiations with Ineos this summer and both ended up not agreeing a deal. So we can assume the next permanent manager will be a coach not a control freak.

Whether that's the right approach... who can say. Ashworth has it all to prove.
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Not sure this is true of Tuchel. He apparently fell out with Boehly because he was being asked to be both the coach and DoF during Boehly's first summer and he got sick of all the transfer dealings. Essentially he sees himself as the coach and was pissed off that he was expected to run the recruitment also.
 
Easy to say that Tuchel turned us down. However, what actually happened is that Tuchel didn't fit our vision for a coach. He wanted too much power, therefore it was a no-go.
 
hobbers said:
I thought it was more likely they didnt agree a deal because when Tuchel met with Ratcliffe he was demanding £15m a year or something.
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To be fair to him, being offered a lower salary than Rashford is a bit insulting.
 
Bastian said:
With De Zerbi I think the rumours in summer were him scoffing at the contract offered, which is a bit strange as I doubt Marseille are paying him some astronomical figure, though of course you want a higher pay when you have this kind of a stressful job.

If this is true then we can rule out Tuchel from any hypothetical discussions about a new manager.
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Something else curious about De Zerbi is his stance on Greenwood. Now - I'm only speculating here - but Brighton's chairman said this just a couple days back:

"Roberto had thoughts on certain players, but that is not the way we as a club work" Brighton chairman Tony Bloom on Roberto De Zerbi

I wouldn't be surprised if asked Brighton for Greenwood and also asked about our plans for him when we were interviewing him - and we said yeah, nah that's not happening
 
Its more so down to needing the manager and executive who are in agreement over methods and philosophy surrounding football operations. Pep at City is a classic example - one of the best managers in the world, but his overall approach had to be in sync with the likes of the DOF and CEO. Tuchel's last two clubs were with a rigid corporate structure and one with an activist owner, so one may forgive him for insisting on more control over football decisions given what he just went through. That's not to say he will replace ETH of course.
 
We have an amazing recruiting department and it was the right move not to compromise that set up.
 
I think ineos also realise by lowering initial salaries for players and manager it gives you some flexibility to change when it’s clear it isn’t working.
Maybe that wount align with manager expectations, but i think it’s good to prioritize while we are trying to get out the mess we are in.
 
hobbers said:
Old news. But also should be pointed out, wasn't just Tuchel.

De Zerbi and Ten Hag also both went into negotiations with Ineos this summer and both ended up not agreeing a deal. So we can assume the next permanent manager will be a coach not a control freak.

Whether that's the right approach... who can say. Ashworth has it all to prove.
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Considering the state of our players, the football, and the results, a coach is what we need first and foremost.
 
Can you blame him? I wouldn't want anything to do with this mess.

Massive amount of scrutiny and you're never going to have job security when the true talent level of your squad is a finish somewhere between 5th and 7th at a club that believes it has a right to be competing for trophies every season simply because of its history and therefore always has unreasonable expectations.

Quite frankly we're lucky anyone is willing to come here and manage.
 
hobbers said:
Ten Hag has the same stance on playing Greenwood that RdZ has.
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difference being one is in place - seemingly one they were looking to replace - and the other was a potential replacement. surely, you don't bring in someone with the same off-putting ideas as the one you're trying to replace?

as stated though - I was just speculating based on recent quotes.
 
Would have been Jose part 2. No coach should ever be in charge of transfers or style of play ever again.
 
P-Ro said:
Not sure this is true of Tuchel. He apparently fell out with Boehly because he was being asked to be both the coach and DoF during Boehly's first summer and he got sick of all the transfer dealings. Essentially he sees himself as the coach and was pissed off that he was expected to run the recruitment also.
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Tuchel is the worst kind of control freak - the minimal effort sort. What happened was they asked if he could fill the DoF position. He said he bound do it and was willing to do it…. Then he didn’t show up to meetings, wouldn’t take calls, would only answer texts with a thumbs up or thumbs down emoji.

He would let them know if he wanted a player, but otherwise avoided doing the job entirely. And his player choices were crap.

Tuchel is a great tournament coach. I don’t know why that it is, what about his style lends to that, but he’s the guy that can win the CL and be crap in the league in the same season.

Ten Hag kinda already does that.

I don’t think you missed out on anything with Tuchel.
 
P-Ro said:
Not sure this is true of Tuchel. He apparently fell out with Boehly because he was being asked to be both the coach and DoF during Boehly's first summer and he got sick of all the transfer dealings. Essentially he sees himself as the coach and was pissed off that he was expected to run the recruitment also.
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Source for this? Seems like a thing someone made up and everybody started parroting.
 
Todd said:
Can you blame him? I wouldn't want anything to do with this mess.

Massive amount of scrutiny and you're never going to have job security when the true talent level of your squad is a finish somewhere between 5th and 7th at a club that believes it has a right to be competing for trophies every season simply because of its history and therefore always has unreasonable expectations.

Quite frankly we're lucky anyone is willing to come here and manage.
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I would disagree with this opinion. The expectations are very low, the squad is really good now, the manager was fully backed in the transfer window. It's a good place for a coach that actually knows what he's doing.
 
Thank feck he turned us down (or we turned him down). Not the right manager for us.
 
This obsession with who turned down whom is so fecking weird. Neither side wanted a deal at any cost and there was no compromise found.
 
Todd said:
Can you blame him? I wouldn't want anything to do with this mess.

Massive amount of scrutiny and you're never going to have job security when the true talent level of your squad is a finish somewhere between 5th and 7th at a club that believes it has a right to be competing for trophies every season simply because of its history and therefore always has unreasonable expectations.

Quite frankly we're lucky anyone is willing to come here and manage.
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I don't think you realize that the manager who manages to return Manchester United to the top will instantly become one of the biggest managerial legends of the last 20-30 years. It would massively elevate anyone's CV and their reputation in the game, even if you've already won everything multiple times in the game before, like Pep, Mourinho, or Ancelotti.

And right now is as good a time as any to take up the job. Our squad is underperforming, but in reality, good enough for top 4. In addition to that, we are one of the richest clubs in the world, and for the first time in 20 years, there is ambition, and a proper football structure in place to achieve success.

Easily one of, if not the most attractive and prestigious job in world football. I'd say it's arguably the number 1 job most managers dream of.
 
Rojofiam said:
I don't think you realize that the manager who manages to return Manchester United to the top will instantly become one of the biggest managerial legends of the last 20-30 years. It would massively elevate anyone's CV and their reputation in the game, even if you've already won everything multiple times in the game before, like Pep, Mourinho, or Ancelotti.

And right now is as good a time as any to take up the job. Our squad is underperforming, but in reality, good enough for top 4. In addition to that, we are one of the richest clubs in the world, and for the first time in 20 years, there is ambition, and a proper football structure in place to achieve success.

Easily one of, if not the most attractive and prestigious job in world football. I'd say it's arguably the number 1 job most managers dream of.
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In reality it’s a cursed job until the deadwood gets shipped out which will take a year or two more.
 
New owners are highly likely to want their guy in charge and it's a matter of time until ETH leaves unless he does something extraordinary.

The stay of execution is to buy time for their preferred candidate to become available. This season was always considered a transitional / development one.
 
elmo said:
In reality it’s a cursed job until the deadwood gets shipped out which will take a year or two more.
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I don't like the word "deadwood" tbh, and I don't even think there's much of it in the squad anymore. And the ones who don't have a lot to contribute anymore are almost certainly gone in the next 12-24 months anyway. And that's basically only Eriksen, Lindelöf, Antony and Casemiro.
 
I still hope we will find an agreement with him next summer or before. He just was gone from the Bayern job and our new owners only took over so there probably was some hesitation on both sides. The situation might be different in a few months time.
 
Imagine us having a manager who doesn't use a 3-1-6 system with a washed up Casemiro as the only midfielder in the base
 
I mean if you quit before you're sacked then I guess you still quit.

If you turn down a job that hasn't really been offered to you, at least on the terms you are insisting on, then I guess you still turned it down.
 
It's worth noting that it's more like Bild was told by Marcel Reif (who seems to be widely considered one of the worst commentators in German football) who was told by 'a source close to the deal'.

Not saying it's not the case, but I'm not sure it's exactly the strongest of sources.
 
I thought Tuchel left Chelsea as they wanted to give him full control and he was happy being a coach?
 
If this is true then I'm very pleased by the new regime. The days of handing the keys to the castle to the manager has to be over - we should get onboard with the idea that today the coach is just another employee who could be easily replaced.
 
Folks on here talking about United as a ''mess'' or a ''poisoned chalice'' or the ''worst job'' available are thinking from a disgruntled fans perspective. To a manager, this is the apex of managerial jobs. Don't get it twisted, this job is as attractive as it's ever been, we just firstly actually need to let EtH go and have a vacancy and anyone who is anyone will be pining for this job. INEOS made a mess of the EtH thing over the summer. If they wanted to sack him, they should have just done it and not kept him in limbo while they interviewed candidates across Europe. Now with Ruud in place, I'm 100% sure they won't hesitate to sack him when they deem fit as they'll have their interim in place till they hire the long term candidate.
 
I'm genuinely curious as to where 'management' in football is really going.

With all these new directors being setup behind the manager to do various tasks, what's left for the manager to do?
If you have a director now scouting new players and buying them, directors setting the type of football you play, directors telling you where the club is going, what's the point of having a manager? Why would anyone want to be a manager?
What's your role? to turn up at 3pm on a Saturday, walk into the dressing room and say to a bunch of players you haven't picked, signed, or developed tactics for, and just raise a thumb and go "go win the game lads"...?

It actually reminds me of a conversation my brother-in-law had with me a few years ago. He worked in publishing for 40 years, trained as a graphic designer, worked on books/magazines all over the world for blue chip companies, but at some point about 15years ago, it all changed.
As a designer he was trained in typography, photography, illustration and design, he was in charge of anything art wise and had spent years honing his craft. But slowly people like marketing directors (who he called failed designers) and sales directors, with no training in art & design, would start to make design decisions, and pretty dreadful ones at that. Over ten years it eventually got to a point where he was basically designing for them and not his clients, had no control over what anything looked like and the designs being knocked out were appalling, I always remember his quote..."like someone had put all the words and graphics into a canon and just fired it at the page.." which ironically, affected sales, because as he said, deep down people know what looks good and what looks shit. A classic case of 'too many chiefs and not enough Indians'. Eventually he left the design business because he'd had enough of it, despite being an award winning designer. You can sort of see it in TV advertising, it's garbage these days compared to well thought out ads of a few decades ago.

Thinking about the way clubs see managers now, it does make me wonder where all this is going to lead. Are we looking at a massive shift, where basically a Dave Bassett type could manage a football club, because there's bugger all left for him to do?
 
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