Boring Boring Man United
Boring Boring Man United
And the borefests keep marching on on on
Boring Boring Man United
And the borefests keep marching on on on
Long Ball United?
- Thread starter Getsme
- Start date
Stats from the weekend games.
Manchester United (A) 18 shots. 6 on target.
Arsenal (A): 7 and 3
Spurs (H): 23 and 8
City (H): 18 and 5
Chelsea (A) 12 and 2
Liverpool (A) 17 and 6
More shots at goal than any other away team, equal highest shots on target of any away team and second highest number of shots on target overall (home or away)
I'll get a taxi, but I don't wish to come across as argumentative, but wonder how many of them played 3 strikers,1 winger and 1 full on attacking midfielder to start with? Anyways, the stats do help actually but there is no denying that we should have created much better chances with the amount of possession we had.
United were poor yesterday, only until Fellani came on did we play long balls to him. I disagree that we must now be considered a long ball team - we are miles better than that assessment
The stats look shocking but aren't in themselves anything to worry about, for reasons others have pointed out. Another point to make is that a long ball isn't necessarily a bad thing. In the eyes of the statisticians Scholes picking out a 50 year pass to a winger is the same as a defender lumping it in the vague direction of a target man.
In the context of this season, the quality over-the-top balls from the likes of Blind and Di Maria which have led to clear scoring opportunities will all have been counted as 'long balls'.
In the context of this season, the quality over-the-top balls from the likes of Blind and Di Maria which have led to clear scoring opportunities will all have been counted as 'long balls'.
Resorting to long ball is fine while chasing the game and with players who are effective in using it. Playing the ball from defence isn't working out, so why not. Its about being effective, if we didn't resort to long ball , we would have lost yesterday. Is it deliberate? Not sure, but we lack creative fluidity and pace while attacking which is making this an obvious choice. I would prefer not to use it as well if we have better alternatives, but it isn't blasphemous to use long balls.
Did Rooney even get a shot on target other than his free kick?
I feel we need to be more direct if anything. I thought Sam was joking with what he said but it seems people are taking him seriously.
He hasnt had a shot in target this year I read earlier.
It's funny but the vast majority of fans on here were disgusted when Moyes' United lumped it long to Fellaini or persistently threw crosses in rather than engage in clever build up play.
I don't see that we're any better these days in terms of what we see on the pitch. Defence wasn't that big of an issue under Moyes - it was a tumescent, predictable and generally slow attack. We frankly don't look much better now.
The only obvious difference is passing the ball to death in front of teams rather than trying to break with any pace.
This is where I post possession stats from all those games, right?
Pogue what do you actually do for a living you've been constant all day I want your job!
Good points. We created more than enough chances to win the game yesterday, against a team which defended very well I thought (too many people fail to credit our opposition). The clear issue was with our finishing. Being a top team is more about being clinical than it is about dominating every game, at least in my view.
Yep long or short pass isn't the issue. The lack of final third penetration and chance creation is.
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It's weird. When we really were creating very little (e.g. the 352 victories against Arsenal and Southampton) it was our clinical finishing that made all the difference. At the weekend we actually created a good few chances but our finishing deserted us completely.
Of course when circumstances dictate then it's absolutely fine to use long balls. But the fact is it isn't a one off or even an every other game type of thing, we're literally 2nd in the league for it. There's a huge problem with the dynamic in this team that LVG is oblivious too.
We clearly aren't a long ball team. We just revert to using Fellaini and pumping the ball into him when we've run out of ideas. Our problem is how slow we are on the ball. Very few occasions in a game where we get it forward quickly enough to turn the opposition.
I can only remember the two RVP volleys where I thought that we should have scored. The Falcao one was a bit scrappy but the keeper was out well.
The same Arsenal who also won at the Etihad and have recently being playing a level of football United haven't been near all season. It's been a strange season but the general level of performance from them since the turn of the year has been better than our general level of performance all season. The same goes for Spurs and Liverpool. They don't exactly look like world beaters but they are currently playing noticably better than us. We played well for 45 minutes at Spurs but it was in the middle of that massive fixture pile up and they had Chelsea 2 days after.
The injuries are completely irrlevant now, because we don't have them anymore, and our performance levels have not improved as a result. It's a paper argument...it always was tbh because Van Gaal wasn't using the players he did have available correctly.
You can't play Carrick at Centreback, leave two first team centrebacks on the bench, play Fletcher on his own in midfield, then blame injuries for a shite performance. Well you can, but you'd be wrong.
I don't know where this mood swing stuff has come from. We've been consistently bad all season, while Liverpool, Spurs and Arsenal have been as bad or worse, but have recently all stepped up a gear. Something a lot of people on here had claimed we would do...but we simply haven't. There's always some lunacy on the caf, but the point I'm adressing is whether it's correct to say we're playing "top four level football" as some kind of defence for our poor performances...because if you ask yourself whether how we're currently playing is likely to be good enough to secure a top four place, the answer for me is a fairly certain no. Take away the fluke/freak results against Southampton and Arsenal and we wouldn't even be clinging on to one at the moment.
I don't think our home form has been formidable either. We've lost to Swansea and Southampton. We only drew with Chelsea because of a last minute scrambled equaliser. We haven't played Arsenal, City or Spurs at home yet. The only notable result was the one against Liverpool and even that was far from a convincing display. Our goalkeeper managed to be the only player to emerge from it with credit. The Everton and West Ham games were also undeserved wins...the kind you maybe get every so often but certainly can't point to as evidence of being convincing or formidable in any way.
I'm not sure Southampton will fall away. I still kind of think they will but I expected it to have happened by now. Even if they do the three below us I'd expect not to...I think if we carry on the way we're playing we'll be found out too many times. Even without the European football. That's only an advantage if you're playing well enough to make it one. Like Liverpool were last year.
Including the goal that's four good chances. The Fellaini turn and shot makes five. Then there's the header he really should have looped into the far corner after their keeper flapped at one. That's a decent haul for a tricky away fixture. As you can see from the stats I posted above from the other CL contenders.
I don't think that's a decent amount of chances. We have lowered our standards if that is the case.
Have to agree with all of this. I remember thinking and posting back around the time when we'd won away at Arsenal and Southampton that our performance levels simply wouldn't continue to produce results unless we improved.
If we have, then so have all the teams around us. Did you see the stats I posted from the other CL (and title) contenders over the weekend?
Feeling sorry for west fecking ham? Seriously? Get some perspective please.
It does seem strange that we play long ball football (lets face it guys, we are are longball team, whether we like it or not), yet we only have 1 tall to aim for.
Perhaps instead of buying Herrera and Di Maria for £90M, we should've bought Crouch instead, for a fraction of the cost.
I agree that results are all that matter (ie. for this year, top 4 is the target).
But, if long ball football is what we were doing, why didnt LVG buy a tall striker? Crouch and some other tall strikers can be had for a fraction of the cost of the Galacticos we seem to be buying.
I actually think that LVG missed a trick in the last transfer window.
Plan A: play fast, short passing football. This is our default setting and is what we should be using most of the time. High possession football.
Plan B: when Plan A fails (which it always does in away matches), bring on Fellaini and the tall striker.
To play long ball football, with Falcao, Rooney, Wilson and Mata, is like trying to fit square pegs into round holes.
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I decided to look at the key passes stats in the Premier League on Whoscored.
West Ham have the most long key passes in the league with 62, United are in 14th with 29. Other teams include Liverpool at 3rd, City at 8th, Chelsea at 9th, Arsenal at 13th, Southampton at 15th and Spurs are at 16th. City have the most short key passes in the league with 297, we're at 7th with 205 short key passes. Above us are Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs and Southampton.
The long balls are fine, it's the short key passes we're terrible at. Every single one of the other top 4 challengers have more of them, we just can't seem to create enough chances with short passes and you don't need stats to see that.
West Ham have the most long key passes in the league with 62, United are in 14th with 29. Other teams include Liverpool at 3rd, City at 8th, Chelsea at 9th, Arsenal at 13th, Southampton at 15th and Spurs are at 16th. City have the most short key passes in the league with 297, we're at 7th with 205 short key passes. Above us are Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs and Southampton.
The long balls are fine, it's the short key passes we're terrible at. Every single one of the other top 4 challengers have more of them, we just can't seem to create enough chances with short passes and you don't need stats to see that.
Like I said - very alien emotions that I'm feeling watching us at the moment. They were comfortably the better side yesterday. Rather than feeling elated at getting a point, I was just thoroughly peeved by another slow & boring performance from us.
I didn't see any of the other matches this weekend apart from the scouse derby so I won't comment on the stats. I find them to be generally misleading or inconclusive.
I don't think we go out to play long ball football. Its a consequence of the way we are playing. Better for our back 5 to punt it long rather than risk being dispossessed, which is often the case because the team is so disjointed.
I could see Allardyce calling us that earlier in the season but lately we haven't been relying on long balls as much (or so it seems). The long balls didn't really start up until we fell behind and Fellaini came on, making him an obvious target. Having said that, it's really a one-dimensional and cheap tactic to rely on when we supposedly have so much talent at our disposal.
The same kind of thing was actually going on under Moyes, since the positionings we took up were often so spread apart that long passes were the only way to link players together. Now, it's persisting under LVG even though we just aren't constructed to play this kind of game. United in recent years have been on the physically smaller side (there is a big difference when Fellaini and Smalling are not playing) and have done most of their damage offensively with ground-based attack. The formation we're using at the moment without a midfield (and the fact that our players aren't pacy enough), of course, makes this very difficult.
The same kind of thing was actually going on under Moyes, since the positionings we took up were often so spread apart that long passes were the only way to link players together. Now, it's persisting under LVG even though we just aren't constructed to play this kind of game. United in recent years have been on the physically smaller side (there is a big difference when Fellaini and Smalling are not playing) and have done most of their damage offensively with ground-based attack. The formation we're using at the moment without a midfield (and the fact that our players aren't pacy enough), of course, makes this very difficult.
If you're that alienated watching United maybe should give football a break for a bit. Maybe do a bit of gardening, read a book, spend some time with the family. After a couple of weeks of that, scrappy away draws at West Ham will be pure sex. Trust me, I speak from experience, albeit my period of abstinence was enforced not voluntary.
They weren't though. We had more possession. Better territory. More shots on goal. I know you'll say the stats are being deceiving again but at least they're objective. The evidently sour mood you're in watching United these days is bound to be affecting the way you see things.
We were the better team yesterday and overall a point was a fair result. My concern is we are becoming a very predictable team that is easy to play against. Opposition teams (especially the lower placed teams) tend to line up against us the same way which results in us having to revert to the long ball system when plan A doesn't work.
It's clearly working as we are in 4th spot, but plan B will only save us so many times, unless we improve plan A we could be in trouble.