Livestream out of Syria

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John McCain plays poker on phone during Syria testimony
Critics of a possible U.S. military intervention in Syria say any potential campaign would be a serious gamble for American interests. But for John McCain, the high stakes were apparently centered on his iPhone after McCain was photographed playing a game of video poker during Tuesday’s Senate hearings on Syria.

“Scandal! Caught playing iPhone game at 3+ hour Senate hearing - worst of all I lost!” McCain wrote to his 1,822,263 Twitter followers after the photo, taken by the Washington Post, began making the rounds on social media.
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:lol:

http://news.yahoo.com/john-mccain-plays-poker-on-phone-during-syria-testimony-015345398.html
 
adexkola said:
The nation's reluctance to enter war (however justified it may be) is understandable, given we've been hoodwinked before.
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Not forgetting the financial cost if we were to get sucked into a longer campaign.
 
FresnoBob said:
Right now I'll go 50/50 on this. I'd protect Israel, but won't believe Kerry. [One of our friends had their only child, a daughter, move to Israel--she's serving her time now in the defense force.]
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The extent of that phenomenon is absolutely stunning. Why on earth would young men and women would put their lives at risk when they can enjoy peaceful lives elsewhere, be it the US, Europe, Argentina, South Africa and many other places... I guess that is what a homeland does to a nation that has been without one for centuries.

I wish Kerry et al. stopped shoving Israel's name to their rhetorics. I understand he is trying to address some nutters in congress, but if he really cared he'd leave us out of it and limit the chance Syria retaliates by striking our cities. If Washington had our security as a top priority we'd have none of its courtyard journos reporting Israel's responsibility for recent strikes in Syria.

Before Raoul gets too fussy about his tax dollars I'll just say that we currently mark 40 years to the Yom Kippur war. In that war we lost 3000 men, largely because of post-1967 complacency, but also for not wanting to piss off the US with a pre-emptive strike despite having clear early indications for a coming war.
 
Kaos said:
Its frightening and somewhat flattering you remember a post of mine from three years ago.

Regardless, I stand by that original point - it has been and still is taboo to discuss 9/11 theories, even if I don't agree with any of them.
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:lol:

That search option is wonderful, I tell you. I'd name it "hypocrisy tracker".
 
So you speculatively typed "Kaos 9/11" into the search bar hoping to dig up a gem? I don't see the hypocrisy either, what I said isn't really all that controversial nor does it contradict my current stance.
 
Kaos said:
So you speculatively typed "Kaos 9/11" into the search bar hoping to dig up a gem? I don't see the hypocrisy either, what I said isn't really all that controversial nor does it contradict my current stance.
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That would be targetted killing, which contradicts international law. I typed 9/11 only. Your hit was what is termed collateral damage ;)
 
Francois Hollande has got himself in a right pickle here and his approval ratings were worrying enough to begin with. Despite being the most unpopular French president of the fifth republic and seemingly incapable of winning a vote on Syria, it is believed that on balance he will stand by Obana.
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
Francois Hollande has got himself in a right pickle here and his approval ratings were worrying enough to begin with. Despite being the most unpopular French president of the fifth republic and seemingly incapable of winning a vote on Syria, it is believed that on balance he will stand by Obana.
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Sarkozy?
 
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324463604579044642794711158.html?mod=wsj_share_tweet

Contrary to many media accounts, the war in Syria is not being waged entirely, or even predominantly, by dangerous Islamists and al Qaeda die-hards. The jihadists pouring into Syria from countries like Iraq and Lebanon are not flocking to the front lines. Instead they are concentrating their efforts on consolidating control in the northern, rebel-held areas of the country.

Groups like Jabhat al Nusra, an al Qaeda affiliate, are all too happy to take credit for successes on the battlefield, and are quick to lay claim to opposition victories on social media. This has often led to the impression that these are spearheading the fight against the Syrian government. They are not.

[..]

Moderate opposition forces—a collection of groups known as the Free Syrian Army—continue to lead the fight against the Syrian regime. While traveling with some of these Free Syrian Army battalions, I've watched them defend Alawi and Christian villages from government forces and extremist groups. They've demonstrated a willingness to submit to civilian authority, working closely with local administrative councils. And they have struggled to ensure that their fight against Assad will pave the way for a flourishing civil society. One local council I visited in a part of Aleppo controlled by the Free Syrian Army was holding weekly forums in which citizens were able to speak freely, and have their concerns addressed directly by local authorities.

Moderate opposition groups make up the majority of actual fighting forces, and they have recently been empowered by the influx of arms and money from Saudi Arabia and other allied countries, such as Jordan and France. This is especially true in the south, where weapons provided by the Saudis have made a significant difference on the battlefield, and have helped fuel a number of recent rebel advances in Damascus.
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Senators not paying attention during hearings is nothing new, only thing new is that this time it involved a smart phone, in the past it involved them falling asleep, walking out, not showing up, doodling, talking to their neighbor about other issues, etc. I think McCain had already had a meeting with Obama on all this, so it was all probably old info to him. But still I wonder how much money he lost.
 
Irregardless, it certainly does not look good to the public, both domestic and foreign, when a senator is playing games on an electronic device during testimony that argues for military action.

Imagine if the POTUS had been photographed doing the same even if we later learned it was during a break or lunch. FFS, people on facebook (i.e. rightwingers) have a field day when he puts his feet on his desk in the oval office. Whoopty feckin do.

The McCain bit is funny but I'm sure he's already been briefed. Or he's already determined to vote yes or no (believe yes from what I've heard over the past few days).
 
MrMarcello said:
Irregardless, it certainly does not look good to the public, both domestic and foreign, when a senator is playing games on an electronic device during testimony that argues for military action.

Imagine if the POTUS had been photographed doing the same even if we later learned it was during a break or lunch. FFS, people on facebook (i.e. rightwingers) have a field day when he puts his feet on his desk in the oval office. Whoopty feckin do.

The McCain bit is funny but I'm sure he's already been briefed. Or he's already determined to vote yes or no (believe yes from what I've heard over the past few days).
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One of the benefits of being older is that for some of this stuff (McCain not paying attention in a hearing, Obama putting his foot up, and all the other unimportant stuff that gets people up in arms (righties or lefties)) you get to say "Sorry, been there seen that before, nothing new under the sun." In other words you can react to it with a bit more maturity then others.
 
Update:

Foreign Relations Committee passes motion authorising 60 days of military action not including ground forces.
 
Kaos said:
It doesn't matter, as Chabon says, these aren't the same people who flew planes into the towers. Clean slate as far as I'm concerned.
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Most of the muslims in this thread seem to be against the terrorists in syria yet when these same terrorists carry out strikes in the west then the same people supporting the terrorists here are the first to call out muslims to fight against the "extremists" or else its assumed muslims are silently sided with the terrorists.
 
It strikes me that a 2 month window with scope to use the assets of both the USAF and USN [special forces too] as well as a proxy army on the ground, allows for a lot more to be achieved than would be the case during a mere limited intervention.

Obama better have a politically acceptable figure from within the regime to do business with or some other plan otherwise...

But then every newspaper and broadcasting outlet won't be showing those pictures and footage by the 100s i suppose. And there'll no doubt be something else to steal away the global attention.
 
German intelligence: Syria chemical attack may have been an overdose

Ian Black: The BND spy service also blames Assad for Ghouta killing, but suggests it may have been a mistake
Wednesday 4 September 2013

In the high-stakes drama over chemical weapons use in Syria, the US, France and Britain have all made clear that they hold the Assad regime responsible for the Ghouta attack on August 21st. Syria rejects the charge, and like its close ally Russia, blames the rebels. Neither have yet produced any evidence to support their position. Germany's intelligence assessment adds some intriguing new detail.

According to Der Spiegel, Gerhard Schindler, the head of the BND external intelligence service, told MPs in Berlin on Monday that while there was still no "incontestable proof," analysis of the evidence has led his service to believe that Assad's regime is to blame. Schindler also emphasized that the rebels were unable to carry out such a concerted attack.

In line with the three other western assessments, the German spy chief stressed the size of Syria's CW arsenal and its ability to use it. Schindler also believes CW had been used on a smaller scale before August 21. Britain's Joint Intelligence Committee assessment counted 14 separate incidents — though it has not publicized its evidence. Schindler said that in the earlier attacks the poison gas mixture was diluted, explaining the much lower death tolls in those assaults.

The UK assessment, the sketchiest of the three published reports, admitted that it could not explain Assad's motivation, especially given the presence in Damascus of UN inspectors investigating previous incidents. But Germany has followed France and the US in suggesting that chemical weapons had been used to intimidate the rebels and capture territory in a crucial battle for Damascus, especially to the east of the capital.

There is a twist: "It could also be the case that errors were made in mixing the gas and it was much more potent than anticipated," Schindler said. Estimates of fatalities range from the US figure of 1429 to the French one of 281.

Schindler also presented an additional clue, one that has not thus far been made public. He said that the BND listened in on a conversation between a high-ranking member of the Lebanese militia Hezbollah, which supports Assad and provides his regime with military assistance, and the Iranian embassy (it does not say whether this was in Beirut or Damascus) . The Hezbollah functionary, Schindler reported, seems to have admitted that poison gas was used. He said that Assad lost his nerve and made a big mistake by ordering the chemical weapons attack.
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The new information from the BND could become important in the coming days. Thus far the US has only noted that after the attack, intelligence agencies had intercepted internal government communications indicating concern about a possible UN inspection of the site. The telephone conversation intercepted by the BND could be an important piece in the puzzle currently being assembled by Western intelligence experts.
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The German take on the current crisis is likely to be taken seriously. The BND has a track record of good intelligence "coverage" of Lebanon and Syria (and Iran) and has often played a role mediating between Israel, Damascus and Hezbollah.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/on-the-middle-east/2013/sep/04/syria-assad-obama-germany
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Obama has had a more dramatic transformation than Kerry. From the grassroots young Illinois senator who was vehemently anti-war, to the belligerent drone president.

What was that Lord Acton quote again?
 
Sir Matt said:
It is John Kerry. He was for the war after he was against the war...
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Well when it meant he and his friends were fighting it, he was against it. Now that it means he and his friends can sit safely at home, he has no problem with it.

Of course on CNN a reporter or one of those experts they bring in had an interesting quote, something along the lines of "How you view certain things often depends not on where you stand but where you are sitting at that moment." He went on to explain that sitting in the White House can change your views on things from when you are sitting in the Senate or elsewhere.
 
That and going from a military troop to a uber high level government position exposes one to much more information than exposed at ground level. I cannot imagine being at such a high level to make such decisions. Especially if I were a combat veteran that had experienced the fog of war.

It is much easier to send assets/troops into battle when it's not your ass facing death on a daily basis (or your child, though there have been a few politicians with sons/daughters in combat).

"Senators and Presidents don't have men killed."
"Oh, who's being naive, Kay?"
 
MrMarcello said:
That and going from a military troop to a uber high level government position exposes one to much more information than exposed at ground level. I cannot imagine being at such a high level to make such decisions. Especially if I were a combat veteran that had experienced the fog of war.

It is much easier to send assets/troops into battle when it's not your ass facing death on a daily basis (or your child, though there have been a few politicians with sons/daughters in combat).

"Senators and Presidents don't have men killed."
"Oh, who's being naive, Kay?"
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Obama will make them an offer they can't refuse? ;)
 
While they may have more information, it would be preferable to present it to the Security Council even though it will be shot down by Russia. If Russia ignores clear proof, then it loses face rather than the US. Most likely, they would deflect with mentions of the build-up to Iraq, but at least the presentation of facts would be made. Multiple intelligence agencies, US, British, French, and German have said that it was the Syrian government because of intercepted phone calls from those within the Syrian regime and Hezbollah.

Also, what is the endgame for a US/French strike? The vagueness over strikes and action isn't going to leave anyone happy. It seems that the administration feels like it must do something but has unclear goals for the attack. No matter the action, there is no "good" outcome because the international community doesn't care--it would be happy to sit by and watch the holocaust happen again rather than getting involved. Either Assad stays in power or Syria becomes something like Egypt or Libya. There might have been hope for a positive outcome shortly after the civil war began, but there isn't now. The only serious organizations will be religiously oriented and extremist in nature. Those who support a liberal democracy will be drowned out, killed, or excluded from government.
 
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