Or alternatively it was a pathetic point.
Liverpool in bid to sign wrong Saints star
- Thread starter MoBeats
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
Or alternatively it was a pathetic point.
Everybody had to follow the Liverpool model or get left behind.
The fact that Liverpool's greatest commercial failure in the PL era was to not take advantage of the riches on offer in the same way as their rivals suggests that the club weren't the trailblazers you make out.
Fact us, I'm finding the sanctimony about Liverpool's capitalist endeavours absurd given that the whole PL model is based around self-interest - which all top clubs benefit from. To suggest Liverpool are the worst is just fandom pap.
The self-righteousness.
Well I'm here to learn so please tell me how saying United have been a huge commercial success since the start of the PL and embraced brand-based marketing to promote their own interests is pathetic.
They did. Why do you think Liverpool spent more than anybody else in the early years of the PL? The lack of on-field success is what damaged their commercial success long term.
A lot of Liverpool fans seem to think that they have fallen behind United in the sponsorship stakes because of bad commercial management. I dont think this is the case. I think they have done as well as could be expected given the lack of success compared to United.
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It really, really doesn't.
Occasionally I get pangs of jealousy and disappointment when I see another club sign certain players. This is not one of those occasions.
I was just reading on RAWK about Rodgers' recruitment policy this summer and him wanting 1 or 2 with real quality, rather than 7 who won't make a difference to the first team. Start as you mean to go on, Brenda.
I was just reading on RAWK about Rodgers' recruitment policy this summer and him wanting 1 or 2 with real quality, rather than 7 who won't make a difference to the first team. Start as you mean to go on, Brenda.
This isn't an excuse for on-field failure. FSG's priority since buying Liverpool has been to improve the club's commercial activities which have been lacklustre given the potential reach of the club. This is well documented and not just some fan invention.
Personally I dislike the use of the laughing smiley as it always seems to be used to undermine a post rather than debate a position. I use forums to debate rather than debase, as most do to be fair.
Andy Carrol Mk 2, at least they haven't paid 46 billion this time.
The cultists will go up the wall when Suarez comes back from Brazil permanently crocked and this lad hippos on to the pitch in to save the day - oh dear - meltdown.
The cultists will go up the wall when Suarez comes back from Brazil permanently crocked and this lad hippos on to the pitch in to save the day - oh dear - meltdown.
Isn't borini staying anyway? He can cover most of the forward and wide positions so he'll have his uses.
Lambert makes sense too from Liverpool's side. It's lambert's side I don't get it. Seems to be purely sentimental because surely he knows Sturridge and Suarez will be playing whenever they're physically capable?
It depends what period you'll take exactly, for example current owners Henry and Co managed to basically double or at least x1.5 commercial revenue and all that without CL. So they commercial management under Hicks and the other guy was in fact dreadful.
Surprised at the positive reactions in here to his impending arrival. If he was signing for us, this place would go into absolute meltdown.
It's a very very uninspiring signing. Yeah, he's a decent player but he will be 33 at the end of the season and he really isn't that good at all. Southampton is his level.
It's a very very uninspiring signing. Yeah, he's a decent player but he will be 33 at the end of the season and he really isn't that good at all. Southampton is his level.
United were among the first clubs to shoot down your proposed individual TV deal system as we said it'd be very bad for the smaller clubs. I dont claim United are saints when it comes to making money, everyone has self interests but we didnt attempt to feck smaller clubs up by signing our own TV deal when we'd have surely been the club that benefited the most out of it, comfortably too. On the other hand, we actively stood up against it. Whether or not we'd attempt to pull off what you're doing now is pure conjecture, you lot on the other hand are doing it.
I'm not someone who believes we're saints or you're the only club that work on furthering their self interest. But in this case, if reports are true, you're trying to feck up Bournesmouth to get a better deal for yourself and being called out because of it. Bringing up our commercial model here is pointless, not just because the 2 situations are very different but as others have pointed out, you lot set the example. We merely bettered it and combined with our success, benefited a lot.
United argued against individual TV deals, even though they'd have benefited more than anyone else, financially, because they had the sense to see that a La Liga style TV deal has dire consequences in the long run for the league as a whole. Liverpool didn't seem bothered by that and wanted to be able to print their own money whilst not concerning themselves with the rest of the league. In the instance that's been raised then yes, United were more concerned with maintaining the integrity and competitiveness of the league than making a few extra quid. Although perhaps it was more a case of Liverpool not realising that the league sells better as a competitive package.
I'd be appalled if we got involved in a grubby deal, the like of which has been suggested in this Lallana/Barker/Lovren deal (not that I think it'll actually happen). Trying to screw a smaller club out of a sell on fee, that are included to protect those smaller clubs from having their players picked up cheap and sold on at a profit without any compensation for the training provided them in their formative years, is a cnuts trick. Both Liverpool and Southampton should be ashamed of themselves IF they get involved in a deal of this nature (they won't).
No question about it.
But it seems many have trouble with the concept of squad players. You do need 'em. And they don't have to be great. I'm a bit surprised they'd go for him - in particular - but at that price it's a fair punt. Next season will be very different for them and they need more bodies, simply put. If he can do a job, grab a goal here and there, in lesser matches - he'll turn out to be a good signing for them.
Now, if they already had youngsters and/or fringe players capable of playing the exact same role, it'd be a waste of money - but clearly Brenton doesn't think they do.
It would certainly taint Southampton's reputation as a great little club that's run the right way. It'd show they only care about themselves, no matter how much they bang on about developing players and so on.
Our needs and resources are very different to Liverpool's so that doesnt really matter.
They have plenty of attacking talent and with Borini coming back, it leaves them with 2 top strikers, a good one and an average/good one depending on how you rate Borini. 2 year contract and surely on low wages to get a player that'l be fine with lots of bench time and is proven in the PL, its a sensible deal. Also allows them to use the money they have to actually strengthen the much weaker areas.
EDIT: Its obviously an underwhelming signing, not debating that, but its still a sensible one in an area where they already have good options. We dont need a striker, let alone one of Lambert's quality, add to that our financial capability atm compared to Pool and the 2 cases are totally different.
Yeah, completely agree. I'd be disappointed with them more than anything. They've been a breath of fresh air this last couple years, and really looked like they were going the right way about building something there, and basing it on young players they could develop into a good side and a stable future. To then try and screw a smaller club out of a few quid that could secure their future would be a bit sickening, for me.
I'd be furious if we, as a club, got involved in something like that. If you sign a deal with a smaller club when you sign a player then you stick to it, whether it aftects your balance sheet or not.
Really Lambert should be taking the penalties with his record. But will Hollywood Gerrard want to give that away given they allow him and his fan club to boast about how many goals he has scored more than *Insert actually world class midfielder here*
Given Gerrard's success from 12 yards at high pressure moments last season it'd be very odd to give pens to Lambert. The only one Gerrard missed was the third one against United, hardly vital.
As for Gerrard's contributions to goals that your post has a dig at, along with his goals he assisted more than any player in the PL last season which is very impressive and gives a lie to the notion that he's always trying impossible balls without the end product.
Any way to find out how many of his assists came from set pieces? Like Rooney, I think a vast majority of them would be from set pieces.
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If transfermarkt has it right, only 3 of his assists came from open play. So yeah, that notion isnt really debunked. 3 assists in an entire season from open play.
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I didn't realise assists didn't count from set plays.
My chief point was responding to the idea that Gerrard's only contribution was as penalty taker giving him undue praise from Liverpool fans. I was pointing out that with the most assists in the league praise was due. 3 from open play from a defensive midfielder is 3 more than a lot of DMs.
As for the Gerrard Hollywood ball obsession, that stopped being a thing in about 2004. Yet you'd think he does little else.
Where did I say assists from set plays dont count? You made a post about him topping assists charts and then proceeded to say it also debunks the belief that he always tries impossible hollywood balls when no one had even mentioned it. That's why I pointed out only 3 of his assists came from open play so if you do believe this myth exists, his 3 assists from open play debunks nothing.
He's had a good season but you can make that point by actually referring to his performances rather than making daft statements.
I think it's a good deal for Liverpool, but I'm not so sure for Lambert. However, I can see why he is going there. He's 32 and he probably sees it as his last chance of winning a medal and maybe getting one or two games in the Champions League before he retires. I would much prefer to play more games at that age than playing second fiddle to Suarez and Sturridge. But like others have said they need the cover.
Liverpool come in and boom we want this player, here's your cash and signed up before WC. However, Manchester United are still "trying" to sign Luke Shaw which hasn't made any headway for nearly 3 weeks. This is the difference between a club that says it will spend money and does to a club that says money is there to spend, but won't. Anyway, sorry for derailing this thread. I've resigned myself to the fact we won't be signing anyone this summer.
Liverpool come in and boom we want this player, here's your cash and signed up before WC. However, Manchester United are still "trying" to sign Luke Shaw which hasn't made any headway for nearly 3 weeks. This is the difference between a club that says it will spend money and does to a club that says money is there to spend, but won't. Anyway, sorry for derailing this thread. I've resigned myself to the fact we won't be signing anyone this summer.
Yep, we were. One of the reason FSG purchased us was because they thought that we could make an absolute bomb from them.
Any other club and he stays at Southampton IMO. He's a legend there. He's a massive red though.
Can't help but be made up for the man. How he got here is absolutely brilliant.
Yeah its a great story alright. He deserves his big move as well.
I cant help but think this wont work out for him though.... I can see the "its another option for us " argument but that other option element hasn't really worked with two similar players in recent years (I realise including Crouch is a bit of a stretch).
I don't really see how or why he'd be a better player than Borini for you next season.
Didn't realize he was a Liverpool fan. It's a great move for him, then to play for his boyhood club and the way he did it is pretty awesome. I wish him all the best accept against Manchester United of course.
Well in the past season Liverpool played 44(?) games, with Sturridge and Suarez being absent for significant periods. The alternative was Aspas, or starting Moses.
Next season Liverpool will have 62 games (getting to the champions league final is a tad unrealistic first year back), so with Suarez, Sturridge, Borini, and Lambert, there is a variety, something everyone says Liverpool need, and improved rotation, which is vital given the nature of Liverpool's style of play (which I think will be modified tbf, no way that pressing can be sustained without a much bigger squad).
Also £5m for a player in which you know what to expect from (as opposed to Aspas) means extra money is available for arguably more pressing issues in the first XI.
Next season Liverpool will have 62 games (getting to the champions league final is a tad unrealistic first year back), so with Suarez, Sturridge, Borini, and Lambert, there is a variety, something everyone says Liverpool need, and improved rotation, which is vital given the nature of Liverpool's style of play (which I think will be modified tbf, no way that pressing can be sustained without a much bigger squad).
Also £5m for a player in which you know what to expect from (as opposed to Aspas) means extra money is available for arguably more pressing issues in the first XI.
Decent extra striker for Liverpool who could probably do with one if Suarez/Sturridge get injured, but other than going to a bigger club I don't see it benefiting Lambert's football. He won't be a starter unless he's lucky enough to get a first team spell, and he'll mainly be limited to sub appearances.
Not so sure about that. From the reports I read last year when he was linked with West Ham he was very interested due to the increase in wages. I suspect any big side offering him a good deal could get him. Regardless, though, this is obviously his dream move and if they can get out of him what Southampton have, along with an extra few % based on his love for the club, he could be a very effective short term signing.
So we pursue a Southampton player from the moment the season ends, by all appearances make a pretty ludicrous, overpriced offer but can't get the deal done because he's about to go off to England training camp, and then will go to the World Cup.
Liverpool make a bid on a Thursday when a Southampton player is actually WITH the England training camp, at a great price, and the deal is done in 48 hours.
We've definitely got the best CEO in world football. Totally knows what he's doing when it comes to transfers.
Liverpool make a bid on a Thursday when a Southampton player is actually WITH the England training camp, at a great price, and the deal is done in 48 hours.
We've definitely got the best CEO in world football. Totally knows what he's doing when it comes to transfers.
I love how the justification of this signing seems to me as being 'he's better than Aspas.'
Great. What high aspirations.
Great. What high aspirations.
Christ. Liverpool are buying their 32yr old striker. We're trying to buy their most valuable asset. Fwiw, Pool are also in for Lallana, have been for weeks.
Maybe the Lambert deal has been in the works for a while. Plus, Pochetino leaving may mean the Shaw deal is done soon as well. Where people saying the same when we signed Mata?
Lambert is a good player. People seem to be slating him because he is big and English.
He has good technique and his goals and assists tally do not lie. He is good at linking play, crossing the ball, finishing, free kicks, penalties, is a Liverpool fan, counts as home grown, cheap, an aerial threat and proven in the PL. Aspas is none of those things.
No, I'm slating Liverpool here because they've signed someone who cannot play, even as a substitute, for a top side. This argument that they have Suarez and Sturridge so it makes sense to have a solid third choice for squad depth doesn't really wash with me.
Look at your own club. You have RVP and Rooney, with Welbeck and Hernandez as 3rd/4th choice. That's a top four club third choice - a young, up and coming player with a high ceiling ultimately destined to replace one of the current first choices. If they can't, then you make £5-10m and move on.
Rickie Lambert is absolutely incongruous with everything Liverpool currently represent. I have watched him regularly and everything about him is lower level PL player - decent at a lot but not very good at anything except penalties that he won't even take at Liverpool.
What they've signed here is a player who will cost them about £12m all in all including wages, over a two year period, who will contribute very little to the squad and will restrict any younger player from coming through.
Lambert is one of the biggest reasons why Southampton score and create as much as they do. He is flexible despite his physique and allows for Rodriguez and Lallana to find space. If a player fits a teams system, age shouldn't matter. Liverpool and Southampton's forwards make similar movements and you could say they look like better players than they actually are for doing so. If Lambert went to West Ham I could see him declining a bit and struggling with their rigid style. I think he is a good fit for Liverpool. He is a better footballer than Carrol that's for sure. Sturridge/Suarez/Sterling will benefit from him being on the pitch. He can drop deep, pull wide or be the target man if needs be. He will add a new dimension without altering the style too much.
Liverpool's biggest problem is their defence. Although, IMO, Rodgers is doing the right thing in targeting Lallana and Lambert. They are two intelligent players who will fit Liverpool's system.