Am I?
Liverpool are the luckiest club in the league and it will never end
- Thread starter Pexbo
- Start date
One title in 34 years does not compare to the United of the 90s / 00s does it?
Thanks for interpreting my point with this. It’s exactly what I was doing, clearly.
That argument about the squad Fergie left has really annoyed me in the last week as it is just blatantly not true regardless. Here's the players left in the squad Fergie left:
Goalies - DDG / Lindegaard
Defenders - Rafael / Evra / Rio / Phil Jones / Johnny Evans / Chris Smalling / Nemanja Vidic / Buttner
Midfielders - Valencia / Anderson / Giggs / Carrick / Nani / Ashley Young / Scholes / Cleverly / Fletcher / Powell / Kagawa / Zaha to come in
Forwards - Rooney / RvP / Chicarito / Danny Welbeck
Youth coming through - Jesse Lingard / Michael Keane / Tyler Blackett / Adnan Januzaj / Will Keane / Sam Johnstone
Scholes would retire end of the season and while that squad needed some reinforcements that is not a squad that is as poor as I have seen suggested multiple times on here or online in the last week. Hindsight helps where we would see some of the young lads would have good careers but it also shows how they could have helped also. Multiple title winners in that side and while they might not have won another I firmly believe the reason we did so poorly after Fergie left was because we didn't hire the right manager. The squad didn't need Moyes, it needed a stronger character.
Yes
They're definitely not past PSG yet. I'm sure it will be a bit different at Anfield, but surely the Pool players must've been kind of unsettled at how Thoroughly they got played of the park yesterday.
Though hanging back and punting it to Salah (and probably Gakpo next week) is their preferred state of being.
Though hanging back and punting it to Salah (and probably Gakpo next week) is their preferred state of being.
They've got the record of an all-timer team this season which is mental because they're nowhere near. They're easily the best team in the PL this year purely by just maintaining their previous season's level.
It wasn't meant as a criticism of Sir Alex - quite the contrary in fact. My point - and I think you agree - is that that your Owners/Board knew that his retirement was coming and failed to prepare for it. Ironically, this was not unlike when Sir Matt retired and O'Farrell proved unable to rebuild an already faded team (not that the Glazers would even recognise the name "Busby", never mind "O'Farrell").
Whereas Liverpool's owners clearly prepared for Klopp's departure, did their due diligence over Slot and my guess is that if/when Salah and VVD leave (by no means guaranteed just yet), they will already have identified successors. (I suspect TAA is going, but they already have Bradley ready to step up.).
More generally, when people on this thread complain about Liverpool's "luck" eg the Konate Red Card/penalty etc, I fear they're missing the point. Which is that all sides get breaks going their way, but for most other sides, that decision going against them would merely have been the difference between losing 4-0 instead of 3-0. Whereas such was the quality of Liverpool's defending last night that it may just have been the difference between a 1-1 draw or a 1-0 defeat, both excellent results in the circumstances.
Of course it all hurts far worse when it's your bitter rival, as this Spurs fan knows only too well, having had to suffer watching the Arse getting the luckiest of 7-1 wins in Eindhoven the previous night!
It's so weird because their numbers are indeed those of an absolutely great team, but if you watch them, they just don't pass the eye test. They're benefiting of poor opposition in the PL and are extremely serious and professional in the CL.
PSG will shit the bed at Anfield.
PSG could've won 4-0 and Liverpool would still end up going through at Anfield.
I agree with this.
Most of the performances probably look great on a highlights show but I wouldn't call them great performances.
I also think the Klopp team which played second fiddle to City for much of their peak would smash this current Liverpool team.
As you said, it's a weird one.
Exactly.
Just glanced through my posts. I’m very much not a ref-heavy poster. I’m not here ‘constantly’ justifying decisions or making excuses about refs. By contrast, I’m an advocate of moving away from the current obsession that refs are deciding everything.
All-timer in what sense though?
We need to win 10/10 of the remaining league games just to match our own precious highest points total. In the CL, it's still early days.
January: they’re about to be found out with the tough away games
February: rivals have injured players
March: They don’t pass the eye test
April: ??
Nice to see that I'm not the only one who doesn't think this Liverpool team is anything special. Right place, right time. Rest of the traditionally strong sides in the PL are having weak seasons and Mo Salah has been carrying this Liverpool side all season when it comes to the business of putting the ball in the net. This side would be battered by some of their sides under Klopp. He just had the misfortune of competing against City at their absolute peak.
Better get the asterisks out again.....
Jokes aside, I think that you could level the eye test at a lot of modern championship-winning teams - Man City (death by a thousand passes), Chelsea, United (Fergie's last season), even Leicester relied on one or two great players ably supported by a relatively mediocre supporting cast. Football has changed a great deal, and teams now hugely value athleticism and efficiency, probably to the detriment of the overall spectacle.
Agree with this. Putting Mane and prime Robertson up against TAA would be a massacre. I think that our current midfield is slightly better technically, but Henderson, Wijnaldum and Fabinho were just a complete wrecking ball of a midfield trio.
Nah, that's not what I mean. I think it's fine to admit you're not a vintage side - you're obviously very good, very competent, are having luck with injuries, and there's little strength in opposition. But it reminds me a bit of SAF's last title, where we were better than everyone else, and had RVP on a mission (a bit like Salah for you guys), but were also not a vintage side like in the previous years.
And no, there's no asterisks. Any titles you win will be rightfully yours. There's no need to be defensive about it.
I think their floor is just really high. It's not just opponents being poor, they really are a great side on average. They just don't have the extra gears of "past" great teams like the City, Arsenal and Liverpool sides of the last few years. Basically, while their median level is roughly on a par with those sides - at least on a similar level - they're best is way below what the others could play
Though to be fair, they've yet to need thd extra gear. Second leg against this PSG side at Anfield might be more telling
Arsenal haven’t broken 90 points in the recent past - I don’t think they were “great”. That’s not a dig about trophies, it’s the fact they haven’t hit a point tally that would justify such label.
Eh, true enough but they've come close and were certainly up there for a solid half of the last two seasons
They were lucky last night and have had a fairly favourable season, but they are not always as lucky.
Quality side with an excellent mentality. Only a next level city side denied them a dynasty.
Quality side with an excellent mentality. Only a next level city side denied them a dynasty.
I disagree with that, but it's subjective and I guess it depends on what you put in "great". For me, they're competent and solid, with an on-fire player carrying them (and yesterday showed what happens when he has an off-game).
Only lost once in the league, topped the CL, reached a final. It’s what you’d expect from a team just demolishing everyone in their path but it doesn’t feel like that when you watch. Not denying you’ve been good but like RiP said it doesn’t pass the eye test.
Defensive Scousers in these threads are becoming tiresome. I’ve long argued that opposition fans are the best part of this forum but these guys continually try to blitzkrieg every Liverpool thread with gaslighting delusions.
How anyone can defend what went on last night (and that was a microcosm of the season as a whole) beggars belief. Absolutely spanked silly, should’ve had a red card and conceded any number of goals larger than three, yet the Scousers converge en mass to tell us all how great they are. Again.
Yawn.
How anyone can defend what went on last night (and that was a microcosm of the season as a whole) beggars belief. Absolutely spanked silly, should’ve had a red card and conceded any number of goals larger than three, yet the Scousers converge en mass to tell us all how great they are. Again.
Yawn.
People said the same when we had peak De Gea in goal, and I defended us then. It’s not luck or cheating to have better players than another team, and that includes goalkeepers.
When we beat spurs 1-0 at Wembley with a Rashford counter attack, and he saved something like a million shots at the other end everyone said it was luck. I disagree.
Firstly, this is a dramatic statement that makes out like some incredible tragedy played out. It was a tense game of football with a winner and a loser. Secondly, the only things I have read about last night - from all fans - is that PSG were unlucky and Alisson was great plus Konate was fortunate not to see red. Have I missed something?
I think it's too early to draw conclusions about this side in terms of where they stand on the spectrum of good -- great -- etc. If Liverpool win the PL and CL with a League Cup then that is an all time great achievement. If Liverpool win either of the big two then it's a really good season, especially given the starting point and expectations. If it's just a League Cup then it's soon forgotten and this side are just anther decent team that did pretty well.
Cheers, force of habit I guessNah, that's not what I mean. I think it's fine to admit you're not a vintage side - you're obviously very good, very competent, are having luck with injuries, and there's little strength in opposition. But it reminds me a bit of SAF's last title, where we were better than everyone else, and had RVP on a mission (a bit like Salah for you guys), but were also not a vintage side like in the previous years.
And no, there's no asterisks. Any titles you win will be rightfully yours. There's no need to be defensive about it.
I don't think that any right-thinking Liverpool fan would claim that we really deserved anything from last night. They absolutely annihilated us and we relied on some favourable decisions and a goalkeeping masterclass, to be honest. I guess every team has games like that though, once in a blue moon.
Yeah that’s kinda my point. It would be an unreal achievement but I don’t think that aligns with your squad in terms of ability or how you’re playing overall. Sometimes the achievement and team match (Utd 08/09, the Barca teams) and other times you wonder how they’ve managed that (Chelsea CL 2012)
just off the top of my head:
your manager, to this day, has not explained his whereabouts during 9/11 to the media. your club’s role in climate change hasn’t been fully uncovered. your emblem is a liver bird; no one alive has ever seen one or can even verify it even exists. your city is famous for having docks, just what the hell are you guys sneaking in and out of the country? you claim to be a club for local guys, but the closest player you’ve got to having a speech impediment is andy robertson. it’s shameless.
Depends on the underlying numbers though. The CLA can be won through some fortune and sheer power of will. Real Madrid in 2022 embodied this - seemed second best in every round. But walking the league with a strong defence and the the highest goals scored while winning 8/9 CL games so far indicates that this isn’t just good vibes and a heap of fortune. In fact, last night was the only time this season where Liverpool have looked demonstrably second best and it’s March.
No comment
To be honest you could have said that about a lot of the Liverpool and City title challenging sides in recent years. We barely lost a game all season in some of those years but that doesn't mean we steamrolled everyone.
Not saying we're as good as that Liverpool side (we're not), just that there were plenty of late, scrappy winners back then too.
Yeah I guess 'blowing teams away' isn't the best metric. You could just tell that side were miles better than the current Liverpool though.
They are definitely a great side, but the incompetence of the usual suspects or the ones you'd expect to be in a title race(City, Arsenal, Chelsea) is absolutely hilarious. It's all falling for them. City has never been this bad, Arsenal is just there like always and Chelsea throws as soon as they get some momentum going.
Salah being absolutely insane is the main reason they are where they are.
Salah being absolutely insane is the main reason they are where they are.
We also lost out on two titles because of a City team that had never been that great, so it works both ways if you want to look at it that way...
This only balances out if we win another few CLs (cause every other team shits the bed) to make up for the two that Barca side deprived us of.
EDIT: Also maybe those leagues will be given out in retrospect anyway after City get their titles stripped like the cheats deserve.