Liverpool are the luckiest club in the league and it will never end

[RobinLFC]

What's your excuses for van Dijk getting away with a blatant red card or Konate getting away with an even more blatant penalty?

No idea what you're talking about with the Konate one so I probably don't think it was anywhere close to a blatant penalty.

The Van Dijk one was strange as even on the field no one seemed to make a big deal out of it. Perhaps the referee thought it was a coming together or just a minor scuffle, dunno. I don't think he'd have much to argue about if he was shown a red card there because he did lash out. But again that happened very early in the game so not something we can say that would have changed the result either way (which I always find a daft argument, same for the "disallowed goal").

 

[PickledRed]

"They have not played every team of the top 4 back in 2007 within the first 4 months of the season"

Unless Slot is subjected to laboratory-style conditions, with all variables made as difficult as possible we still cannot judge this football team.

 

[Nogbadthebad]

Slot came in and didn't change a winning formula. Hence they keep going like they had done under klopp. hes made a few tweaks to the strategy, but no big changes.

Our problems today still stem from the transition from Sir Alex. We didn't just change the manager, we changed the manager, the guy in charge of transfers, and then the genius Moyes removed everyone involved with coaching a successful team too.

There are many reasons for our troubles today, but losing every bit of winning experience from leadership at the same time is at the heart of it all.

 

[PickledRed]

Slot came in and didn't change a winning formula. Hence they keep going like they had done under klopp. hes made a few tweaks to the strategy, but no big changes.

Our problems today still stem from the transition from Sir Alex. We didn't just change the manager, we changed the manager, the guy in charge of transfers, and then the genius Moyes removed everyone involved with coaching a successful team too.

There are many reasons for our troubles today, but losing every bit of winning experience from leadership at the same time is at the heart of it all.

Slot has changed a lot tactically. Very different to watching Liverpool last season. Also whole new coaching and back room set up. There’s also a brand new DOF (Hughes) who started in the summer and Edwards is also back.

It’s not a seamless transition. Does help that Klopp isn’t sat in the stands probably.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

What are you on about? The first three months of the season aren't even over yet and we'll have played Arsenal, Villa and Chelsea before that. So basically we just didn't have a game vs City in the early stages of the season, shocker.

Three months was clearly a vague timeline. At the time of writing it you hadn’t played Arsenal. Top 4 was referring to last years table.

Feel free to argue over semantics, you’ve had a very very easy start.

I mean, they can argue it if they want and Robin has become particularly touchy as soon as anyone dares to mention anything about Liverpool, but yes, they statistically had the easiest start to the season of any team. Which is very nice to get the ball rolling and build some momentum. They've now started their tough run, I feel they're quite lucky to have 4/6 from those 2 fixtures, and they were insanely lucky to not have Van Dijk sent off in the era of VAR (which would have had a knock-on effect on future games).

But yes, no luck involved - pure talent.

 

[Changeisgood]

Probably a booking, but Havertz's theatrics maybe deterred the ref.

What amazes me is not var overturning that, but that the ref saw it because he gave a free kick and then didn't book VvD

No idea what you're talking about with the Konate one so I probably don't think it was anywhere close to a blatant penalty.

The Van Dijk one was strange as even on the field no one seemed to make a big deal out of it. Perhaps the referee thought it was a coming together or just a minor scuffle, dunno. I don't think he'd have much to argue about if he was shown a red card there because he did lash out. But again that happened very early in the game so not something we can say that would have changed the result either way (which I always find a daft argument, same for the "disallowed goal").

Well you should remember the Konate one if you were watching at that time. Martinelli was completely wiped out in the box. Usually those moments stick out. The only thing is whether or not Konate got a small piece of the ball but the game broadcast seemed eager to move on to show conclusivelyfor me. I thought he did not get the ball and completely took Martinelli out, who for good measure gets sandwich in from the Pool player behind him.

It's a bit interesting VAR took 5 minutes to determine a goal that looked fairly obvious and waves this one on in 5 secs. I don't recall any marginal call going against Pool in this one except for the non high boot on trossard. That was literally it...yellow cards missed, corner, free kicks, penalty shout...it all went Pool's way there. And that seems to be a bit of a common theme at the moment, not just in our game yesterday.

 

[Desert Eagle]

Probably a booking, but Havertz's theatrics maybe deterred the ref.

VVDs reputation(media enhanced) saved him there. If that was Casemiro or Bruno, I would bet any money VAR flags that as a red.

 

[RobinLFC]

I mean, they can argue it if they want and Robin has become particularly touchy as soon as anyone dares to mention anything about Liverpool, but yes, they statistically had the easiest start to the season of any team. Which is very nice to get the ball rolling and build some momentum. They've now started their tough run, I feel they're quite lucky to have 4/6 from those 2 fixtures, and they were insanely lucky to not have Van Dijk sent off in the era of VAR (which would have had a knock-on effect on future games).

But yes, no luck involved - pure talent.

Like I've said many times to you already, I am used to Liverpool getting criticized on here, but the better we have gotten, the more laughable a lot of the criticsm has gotten as well - towards the point of clutching at straws sometimes. At least when we were still bad under Rodgers the criticism was warranted and simply true in a lot of instances. And like I said to Pexbo I don't deny that we had an easy start to the season. There's just no need to make up fake claims to support that is what I was pointing out.

My honest assessment is that we are looking like a well-coached team but are not playing teams off the park like we did in our peak Klopp under Klopp. Grinding out results is a skill as well though and this team has a winning mentality. It hasn't been perfect by any means but it's been effective and the new manager has done better than anyone expected results-wise, there's no denying that imo. And for what it's worth, it's not like we are up against teams that are playing their opponents off the park either. Arsenal are struggling, and City needed a 95' winner against Wolves and grinded out a tough 1-0 at home against the bottom side of the league last weekend.

What amazes me is not var overturning that, but that the ref saw it because he gave a free kick and then didn't book VvD

Well you should remember the Konate one if you were watching at that time. Martinelli was completely wiped out in the box. Usually those moments stick out. The only thing is whether or not Konate got a small piece of the ball but the game broadcast seemed eager to move on to show conclusivelyfor me. I thought he did not get the ball and completely took Martinelli out, who for good measure gets sandwich in from the Pool player behind him.

It's a bit interesting VAR took 5 minutes to determine a goal that looked fairly obvious and waves this one on in 5 secs. I don't recall any marginal call going against Pool in this one except for the non high boot on trossard. That was literally it...yellow cards missed, corner, free kicks, penalty shout...it all went Pool's way there. And that seems to be a bit of a common theme at the moment, not just in our game yesterday.

He got the ball imo.

 

[giorno]

Martinelli was completely wiped out in the box. Usually those moments stick out. The only thing is whether or not Konate got a small piece of the ball

Replay i saw he gets the ball clean before taking out Martinelli, only reason the ball remains "in play" is because it bounces back off the other liverpool player. Seemed a clear penalty live, on replay i think they made the right call

 

[Pexbo]

Replay i saw he gets the ball clean before taking out Martinelli, only reason the ball remains "in play" is because it bounces back off the other liverpool player. Seemed a clear penalty live, on replay i think they made the right call

He got sandwiched between Konate and TAA, TAA didn’t get anywhere near the ball but contributed to Martinelli being wiped out.

 

[RobinLFC]

Replay i saw he gets the ball clean before taking out Martinelli, only reason the ball remains "in play" is because it bounces back off the other liverpool player. Seemed a clear penalty live, on replay i think they made the right call

Correct. Never a penalty, he just gets the ball - I didn't even know this was a discussion point ffs.

 

[giorno]

I mean, never a penalty is a bit much. If it's given on the pitch I doubt VAR overturns it

That said, i think it's the correct decision

 

[Changeisgood]

There glad we got the incident again. First of all we have Trent completely missing wildly and hitting the top of Martinelli leg..I agree actually the tackle is fairly clean except he is going through him. That would be called a foul anywhere else on the pitch.

 

[WeePat]

Can anyone explain why Arsenal late goal was disallowed? Referee pretended he blew his whistle before the goal but the replay showed he didn’t blow it at any point

Handball from Havertz, then also a foul on the goal line, I think it was Havertz again who shoved Trent into the goal before he tapped the ball into the net. Right call.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

He got sandwiched between Konate and TAA, TAA didn’t get anywhere near the ball but contributed to Martinelli being wiped out.

The way you talk with such certainty here about an alleged incorrect decision where (to me anyway) the referee seems to have been spot on with his initial call puts your allegations of corruption in the VAR/Oliver threads into an interesting context.

It also highlights the myth of video replays being able to reveal some sort of indisputable truth in each contentious incident. People still see what they want to see, no matter how many times they watch slo mo replays. So there’s not a hope in hell of any referee coming to a decision that is acceptable to all after a few pitchside replays.

 

[Mogget]

Handball from Havertz, then also a foul on the goal line, I think it was Havertz again who shoved Trent into the goal before he tapped the ball into the net. Right call.

The ref gave it as a foul by Kiwior, not Havertz

 

[WeePat]

The ref gave it as a foul by Kiwior, not Havertz

Okay that's weird, didn't think that was a foul, but I definitely think Havertz handled it and then fouled Trent on the goal line, so we got the right outcome via an incorrect decision.

 

[RobinLFC]

The ref gave it as a foul by Kiwior, not Havertz

Did he? He blew his whistle immediately after the Havertz handball.

But even if he did, it was a foul anyway. Can’t come flying in from behind like that especially with your arm in the defender’s neck.

And even if he wouldn’t, it was an obvious handball and (albeit more debatable) a push from Havertz on TAA. I don’t get the outrage here, three fouls in the build-up and Arsenal fans still talk about it as a “disallowed goal”.

 

[Mogget]

Did he? He blew his whistle immediately after the Havertz handball.

But even if he did, it was a foul anyway. Can’t come flying in from behind like that especially with your arm in the defender’s neck.

And even if he wouldn’t, it was an obvious handball and (albeit more debatable) a push from Havertz on TAA. I don’t get the outrage here, three fouls in the build-up and Arsenal fans still talk about it as a “disallowed goal”.

I wasn't really too bothered about the goal being disallowed myself, I was more annoyed about the van Dijk kick and TAA/Konate sandwich on Martinelli in the box.

Say what you like about Konate getting the ball but there is absolutely no chance in hell the ref doesn't immediately point to the spot if that happened to Liverpool at Anfield

 

[Zlatan 7]

Just watched motd2 and they showed all the decisions that went against Arsenal yesterday. Madness. Vvd getting away with kicking out and it was never a foul leading up to when Jesus put the ball in the net, the way the ref hesitated with his whistle then blew as it become clear there’d be a goal was very dodgy. He could have just let it run and checked var afterwards if he was in doubt

 

[Klopper76]

I wasn't really too bothered about the goal being disallowed myself, I was more annoyed about the van Dijk kick and TAA/Konate sandwich on Martinelli in the box.

Say what you like about Konate getting the ball but there is absolutely no chance in hell the ref doesn't immediately point to the spot if that happened to Liverpool at Anfield

We had a blatant handball by Odegaard not given last season against you at Anfield.

 

[Lentwood]

I'm not one of these United fans who can't accept when rival teams are good.

City are a fantastic side, even if they are a bunch of filthy cheats. Arsenal are a fantastic side. The Mane-Salah-Firminho Liverpool that reached two CL finals with Klopp at the helm was a fantastic side, in fact, that was exactly how I'd love "my'" side to play football, if I were a coach.

I do not feel this Liverpool side is a fantastic side. They're a hard-working, attritional side with a top CB, coming to the end of his career and a superstar forward who is mega effective but also coming towards the end of his career.

They're also incredibly lucky and have benefitted from a huge amount of positive variance this last 14-months. The sheer number of late winners alone last season is massively statistically unlikely and can't continue.

It'll sound crazy but I don't think the gap between us and them is as big as it appears. We've had an appalling manager in charge for three seasons but have also had absolutely rotten luck with decisions and injuries.

New manager in who knows how to set a team up and a bit more luck for us and we'll be in and around that top four/three again next season.

 

[Mogget]

We had a blatant handball by Odegaard not given last season against you at Anfield.

I'll give you that one

 

[RobinLFC]

They're also incredibly lucky and have benefitted from a huge amount of positive variance this last 14-months. The sheer number of late winners alone last season is massively statistically unlikely and can't continue.

This coming from a Utd fan who were known for squeaky bum time is quite something. If it happens semi regularly over a reference period of nigh on 10 years, it's not "incredibly lucky" at all anymore.

 

[KirkDuyt]

I mean, never a penalty is a bit much. If it's given on the pitch I doubt VAR overturns it

That said, i think it's the correct decision

Liverpool had that exact thing correctly overturned against Chelsea where their keeper got some of the ball and then took Jones out though didnt they?

 

[Lentwood]

This coming from a Utd fan who were known for squeaky bum time is quite something. If it happens semi regularly over a reference period of nigh on 10 years, it's not "incredibly lucky" at all anymore.

"Fergie time"* was a myth, which largely stemmed from two famous games, Bayern and Sheffield Wednesday. See below-.

"While Ferguson's side certainly had an impressive number of winners scored in the 90th minute or later during his Premier League reign, with 16, four clubs totalled more.

Between 1992/93 and 2012/13, Ferguson's final season at United, it was actually arch-rivals Liverpool who had the most with 24"

*I assume you meant "Fergie time", meaning stoppage time, rather than "squeaky bum time", which was actually a SAF reference about the nervy matches at the end of a title race.

Last season alone, Liverpool scored a league high 26 goals after 75-minutes. 7 of those came in stoppage time.

You can argue some of it is down to fitness or a never-say-die attitude but it's also statistically unlikely and will not keep happening at that sort of rate.

 

[RobinLFC]

"Fergie time"* was a myth, which largely stemmed from two famous games, Bayern and Sheffield Wednesday. See below-.

"While Ferguson's side certainly had an impressive number of winners scored in the 90th minute or later during his Premier League reign, with 16, four clubs totalled more.

Between 1992/93 and 2012/13, Ferguson's final season at United, it was actually arch-rivals Liverpool who had the most with 24"

*I assume you meant "Fergie time", meaning stoppage time, rather than "squeaky bum time", which was actually a SAF reference about the nervy matches at the end of a title race.

Last season alone, Liverpool scored a league high 26 goals after 75-minutes. 7 of those came in stoppage time.

You can argue some of it is down to fitness or a never-say-die attitude but it's also statistically unlikely and will not keep happening at that sort of rate.

If you expand that to the previous seasons under Klopp I'd wager we are at or near the top in pretty much every season, and if that's the case it's not statistically unlikely anymore but just a trend. If it's not the case then we can expect regression to the mean but to me it's not a coincidence that we do it so often, certainly not purely down to luck in my view.

I indeed meant Fergie time instead of skueaky bum time yes!

 

[Oscar Bonavena]

The length of time it took to verify Merino's goal was a joke. It was obvious Van Dijk's size 14 clown shoe was keeping everyone onside, it was like VAR were just scrambling for a reason to chalk it off.

 

[goatmeister]

Probably a booking, but Havertz's theatrics maybe deterred the ref.

Havertz was just being a prat and Virgil should have known better being a captain and all.
Yellow card was fair enough, move on with the game.

 

[B20]

. He could have just let it run and checked var afterwards if he was in doubt

Erm no. You don't play advantage for the team that has just committed a foul.

"play on and let var deal with it" is only for offside.

 

[reddyornot]

If you expand that to the previous seasons under Klopp I'd wager we are at or near the top in pretty much every season, and if that's the case it's not statistically unlikely anymore but just a trend. If it's not the case then we can expect regression to the mean but to me it's not a coincidence that we do it so often, certainly not purely down to luck in my view.

It's almost if you have some super power or something else that keeps you going right to the end of matches.Cough Cough.
Liverpool have scored more last minute winners during Klopp's reign then United did under Sir Alex. 9 years v 27 years!

 

[Jippy]

"Fergie time"* was a myth, which largely stemmed from two famous games, Bayern and Sheffield Wednesday. See below-.

"While Ferguson's side certainly had an impressive number of winners scored in the 90th minute or later during his Premier League reign, with 16, four clubs totalled more.

Between 1992/93 and 2012/13, Ferguson's final season at United, it was actually arch-rivals Liverpool who had the most with 24"

*I assume you meant "Fergie time", meaning stoppage time, rather than "squeaky bum time", which was actually a SAF reference about the nervy matches at the end of a title race.

Last season alone, Liverpool scored a league high 26 goals after 75-minutes. 7 of those came in stoppage time.

You can argue some of it is down to fitness or a never-say-die attitude but it's also statistically unlikely and will not keep happening at that sort of rate.

Seems such a weird stick to try and beat a team with.
Liverpool have annoyingly scored the most stoppage time winners in prem history.

 

[BrilliantOrange]

May: Liverpool are done once Klopp leaves
July: It’s only pre-season
August: Slotball looks boring
September: Slot’s enjoying a honeymoon
Early October: They haven’t played anyone yet
Late October: The good opposition had injuries
November: ?

Pre Slot: Jota Nunez Soboslai Gravenberch Gakpo Jones Konate are mediocre, Trent cant defend, VVD and Salah are past it.

November: its not that impressive what Slot is doing, Liverpool has the best squad in the league.

 

[PickledRed]

Pre Slot: Jota Nunez Soboslai Gravenberch Gakpo Jones Konate are mediocre, Trent cant defend, VVD and Salah are past it.

November: its not that impressive what Slot is doing, Liverpool has the best squad in the league.

Moving goalposts etc

 

[Sassy Colin]

Correct. Never a penalty, he just gets the ball - I didn't even know this was a discussion point ffs.

What we're missing here is that Gary says it's probably not a penalty, which means it probably was.