The US ESPN website is usually my place of solace when I don't want to see PL news I hate... however I know it'll be a top story everywhere when Liverpool seal the league, the way Leicester's win was covered.
I'm at the acceptance phase.
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The US ESPN website is usually my place of solace when I don't want to see PL news I hate... however I know it'll be a top story everywhere when Liverpool seal the league, the way Leicester's win was covered.
I'm at the acceptance phase.
After 30 years and to add 19 to go along with the 6 European(maybe 7)Cups I could care less about how many points we win by.
They won a better one
Yeah, pretty much. It does mystify me that Klopp's not really interested in a double but in the end it's about what Liverpool's fans are happy with come May. Have a feeling the title will be more than enough for yous.
But was it the Mickey Mouse treble?
of course it’s still a great achievement. This is part of the reason why Being a football is so special, because even though any sensible opposition fan recognizes Liverpool’s superiority this season, winding people up is a staple part of any fans job, and that’s all that’s really taking place making fun of their last 3 results.
I fully expect Liverpool to absolutely hammer Atlético and if they do they’ll immediately be joint/2nd favourites to win the competition again. Football is more full of swings and roundabouts than any other sport, but when the opportunity comes to laugh at rivals, you have to take it. If I see a YouTube commercial for Connect 4 and it has Troy deeney getting the better of Van Dijk in a best of 5, I’m still going to find it funny and question VVD mentality.
It'll have nowhere near the coverage of Leicesters title win in my opinion. That news transcended the sport, it was the biggest underdog story in history in many peoples minds, and it was spoken about just everywhere, places that don't even talk about football usually. Liverpool are a huge club, huge team, and yes it's been 30 years since they won it, but its not as big a story.
We both did it once. We've had 4 100 points seasons in europe's top 4 leagues. 6 if you include bayern's 12/13 and 13/14 and adjust for 38 games
I take it you didn't see it last year then?
Man City won it without beating anyone of note! In the 90's the Fa cup was great, but it's gradually declined in to an afterthought for most of the big clubs now.
It's not as big a story but it'll get a mention on Sportscenter. Stephen A and Max will cover it for 5 minutes like they've watched the entire season
I seem to remember Louis Van Gaal finishing 5th and winning the FA Cup but then mysteriously get sacked? Also in 2000 some club didn't even bother entering the FA cup because they prioritised The Club World Cup?
Competing against the best clubs in the world is a bigger achievement than beating the likes of Brighton and Swansea?
Them winning the league will be celebrated, and they have been the best side this season by some distance, but talk of them being the best ever has finally been put to bed IMO. But I've mentioned Klopps strange refusal to not play the kids in the PL, and whether he's managing his squad properly or is this PL campaign just one big ego trip.
The team that he played against Chelsea - would it not have made more sense to play that team at the weekend between cup games? Surely if you have that kind of points advantage over the rest, it's a great opportunity to ease off in the PL and have a go at the cups too?
Nobody cares how many points teams get in the league, nobody. Thats because once a PL is won, teams will just play their kids for the rest of the season. We've pretty much done this every time in the past.
Liverpool are now in a situation where if they get knocked out of the CL, it'll be a bit of an underachievement no matter how many points they get in the league. They dominate the league yet only end up with one major trophy?
The team that he played against Chelsea - would it not have made more sense to play that team at the weekend between cup games? Surely if you have that kind of points advantage over the rest, it's a great opportunity to ease off in the PL and have a go at the cups too?
Nobody cares how many points teams get in the league, nobody. Thats because once a PL is won, teams will just play their kids for the rest of the season. We've pretty much done this every time in the past.
Liverpool are now in a situation where if they get knocked out of the CL, it'll be a bit of an underachievement no matter how many points they get in the league. They dominate the league yet only end up with one major trophy?
It did contain one absolutely meaningless, hell of a Micky cup which I think we all agree.
And not only that, for example, in the mid-nineties, victories in La Liga were only worth 2 points, instead of 3, and the number of teams haven't always been 20, so the points total metric is worthless, plain and simple. % of wins could be slightly less irrelevant, but again, as you say, results after a team clinches the title are extremely unreliable data.
Need Athletico Madrid to finish the job now and that's that. So what if they end the League drought. Can't have them repeating UCL. We'd never live that down!
A reminder that when we did the Treble we only lost 4 games but these 'vincibles' have already lost five.
Agreed.
They’ve been playing poorly for a while and have had numerous games this season where they really should have dropped points but were incredibly fortunate with opposition errors, unlikely shots or deflections and referee gifts and it’s flattered them massively. Up until now people have said “it’s not luck it’s the sign of champions, they just don’t give up“ ect ect. In some cases that has of course been true but there’s been enough cases where the odds have tipped in their favour and if they weren’t so extraordinarily lucky to get the rub of every single game they would be a few draws and a loss or two worse off and not gaining the same attention.
Now they have had those losses from the performances, people are recognising that the results have flattered them and they’re a very good side who have had an extraordinary run boosted by some extraordinary luck rather than an extraordinary team.
Spot on!
Is that what you actually think happened?
Klopp should be sacked as it was completely his fault that they didn't win yesterday.
They are so far ahead in the PL that he should have played with his full team yesterday and a mixture of players in the coming PL games.
Sack Klopp Now!
They are so far ahead in the PL that he should have played with his full team yesterday and a mixture of players in the coming PL games.
Sack Klopp Now!
That is what happened?
Some people wrongly believe that United pulled out to help England host a World Cup (We know how that panned out) but in reality United didn't want the fixture congestion. I remember Ferguson saying that it was impossible to play in both competitions (It wasn't) United used it as a nice little warm weather break with the added bonus of millions of pounds and the chance to be crowned World Champions!
Looking back this was the moment where the FA Cup began to deteriorate as an important competition. When the holders don't defend their title it makes it seem meaningless, and irrelevant. Its not the only factor though, the amount of replays and the stupid decision to play the Semi Finals at Wembley and give away a third of tickets to Corporate sponsors etc, its slowly becoming as unimportant as the League Cup to most of the big clubs.
It's actually quite sweet the amount of nostalgic fans on here that still appreciate the FA Cup, but sadly its now considered a worse achievement than finishing 4th.Would you really take another 15/16 season this year?
I'd love to see a resurgence of the FA Cup personally, but I think the only way to turn it round now is to offer a Champions League place to the winners?
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I agree - people say they've been off the boil, but other than over Christmas, they've had quite a significant number of games this season where they've performed at that sort of level. The only difference is that in the past they've got away with it. Yes people do say its the sign of champions, but it's happened a lot.
It's strange though as the Club World Cup hasn't taken off either, so its not like thats replaced the FA Cup.
Klopp’s got some thinking to do as the whole team has looked tired and/or complacent for a while now. 3 losses in 4 and all of them were well deserved. He’s now got to figure out if he should rest the first teamers in the weekend and likely take the loss or go full strength and hopefully get back to winning. The game vs Madrid is going to be tough and whether it’s best to have them all fully rested or having them gain some momentum is anyone’s guess. I think I’d prefer to play the best 11 on saturday so that they can get back that winning mentality (I hope).
What you rambling on about?
Ultimately you pretending you're not arsed about your streak, not arsed about the FA Cup, not arsed about the League Cup and not arsed about the treble (but prioritise the world club cup instead) is bollocks and makes you look a bit silly. Take it on the chin and move on. You'll feel better.
Eh ?
It'll be interesting to see if they can retain their title when they win it or if they'll just keep getting more and more lethargic. If Pep stays I'd still bet on City winning it if they sort out the defence and are still able to attract top players without CL football.
I take this with a pinch of salt but I read somewhere that Poch ran his Spurs players into the ground playing that ultra aggressive pressing style and maybe Liverpool might be feeling it a bit too? Didn't his Dortmund side collapse after 2 or 3 successful seasons?
I take this with a pinch of salt but I read somewhere that Poch ran his Spurs players into the ground playing that ultra aggressive pressing style and maybe Liverpool might be feeling it a bit too? Didn't his Dortmund side collapse after 2 or 3 successful seasons?
Ah so it’s all Uniteds fault the FA Cup is not the competition it once was?
Your recollection of this is very different than mine.
It’s been common knowledge for years that United were pressured by the FA and government to go to Brazil.
By the way United already were the world champions at the time.
Bang on as ever.
As for luck being 'the sign of champions', that old axiom has the causative relationship round the wrong way. Champions so often appear to get lucky a lot because it is so often necessary to get lucky in order to be champions. There is a huge amount of luck up for grabs in a football season and comparatively fine margins, usually, between the actual quality of the teams chasing the trophy. Of course in this case Liverpool might well have won the league even without being so consistently fortunate, since no-one else has mounted a lasting challenge. But their luck has bought them the misleadingly huge points gap.
I'm not sure if it's "luck" though. Success breeds further success in sports.
Form is a real thing, and when teams seem to get a few results together they can steam-roll into a massive run on the back of it.
We did it ourselves last season, playing underwhelming football but just kept winning after Mourinho got sacked. It's a combination of factors, your own players playing with more confidence/conviction/positive frame of mind on the back of good results, opposition being aware of your good form, refs also being aware of it can play into it too.
I agree with you on many things, but dominance being a mark of a great team is not necessarily correct. Dominance is usually a mark of a team in a one-horse league. I.e. Bayern, PSG and Juventus have shown dominance, without always having great teams. One of the only teams that really showed dominance — both national and international — was peak Barcelona.
So going by that Chelsea 2016-17 were at worst 3rd best team to ever play in PL before City recorded 100 points?
They are easily better than Manutd 2007-08, Arsenal invincible, ManUtd treble and few other great teams.
Likewise Juventus 2013-14 would be best ever team to play in Serie A, miles better than their 90s team.
Well, Leicester v this Liverpool I'd look at how well they both play first, before points. You always remember the level these teams play at. I can't for the life of me recall Utd's points tally's in our league wins but I know which sides were better. For example our 2013 side walked the league and were on course for a massive points tally but they're not a patch on most of Fergie's title winning sides. Thats why points tally's mean nothing imo.
Exactly. Using Points tally's to judge, just doesn't work.
In and of itself, yeah. And by that same token the same goes for trophies, although they're usually a better metric if CL is included
We only lost one league match last year. Finished on 97 points, & also won the Champions League. Was that down to luck too ? I think we can all agree that the Watford loss was coming. However, I don't think you can just put it down to our 'luck' running out. Steve McLaren probably has it right when he says that Liverpool have become 'subconsciously complacent'. If you look back at our performances over the past couple of seasons you'd be hard pressed to find many games where we've been fortunate to come away from the game unbeaten. Our performance levels have certainly declined the closer we get to securing the title. Plus add on all the hype & talk about us breaking records etc, then it's perfectly understandable why our players have found it difficult to maintain the strong focus they've held for nearly 2 years now. I said a few days ago that the Watford defeat doesn't define us as a team because you can't simply write off everything we've achieved over the past couple of years, & you certainly can't put it down to luck. What will define us though is how we react over the remainder of the season & beyond.
No it was down to incompetent refs letting Salah getting away with diving the hole season, and a liverpool player purposely playing the ball into the hand of a opponent to gain a penalty kick in th CL final.
Surprises me how many people are comparing Pool winning the league to leicester winning it. Regardless of length of time, Livepool are a massive club who've been around the top quite a lot for a long time, coming very close only a few season's ago and have spent a lot of money to get a top squad. Them winning the league shouldn't really be that surprising to anyone following the sport. Leicester however had a squad full of players no one knew and constantly defied odds to get there.
It's not comparable at all to me, one is a freak result no one in the world expected, the other is one of the favourites winning when they've managed to screw it up a lot of times before despite being a decent team.
It's not comparable at all to me, one is a freak result no one in the world expected, the other is one of the favourites winning when they've managed to screw it up a lot of times before despite being a decent team.
I agree, there are lots of little caveats that need to be considered. Points tally alone means nothing, in my opinion.
Are you clued into the details of how every team played? From when Sky invented football... To today? Ok then.
It's not the only factor but of course it matters. You can mitigate it with trophy count, strength of opposition, but if Liverpool won every game in the season and got 38*3 points, that would be a huge outlier relative to every other team.
It's not the only important metric. But it is important. How can Arsenal not losing any game (while drawing 12) not be important yet a measure of how many wins you got (point total) be dismissed?