He already took into account history, I just warned him not to become like some Liverpool fans, i.e. living in the past.So, which is it?
Not holding my breath.
Liverpool 2018/19
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That's Liverpool fans for you mate. Can't talk any sense to them.
I agree with all of that. I just don't think people, especially mods should encourage users to "engage their brain next time they post". But tbf KM seems to think he's better than a lot of people on here, especially if you happen to support another football team than him.
It can't be argued though. Not reasonably. Current form has nothing to do with the size of the club, so why don't you list some genuine arguments somebody could put forward that Manchester City are a bigger club than United? More success historically? Larger fanbase, bigger revenue? By every metric United are ahead. You might dislike them but they're a household name, Manchester City were nothing before they got taken over relatively recently. The stupidity of some modern fans and their mentality doesn't mean that City have become bigger.
Current form = better team, not bigger club. I don't get why you're mixing the two up.
But you then went to live in the past by 'taking into account the whole history of the club', so surely you're also talking about yourself?
For what it's worth, I don't think you can talk about the size of a club without taking into account the history of the club and Liverpool & United will continue to be the biggest clubs in England for a considerable amount of time, if not, forever.
Your statement just seemed to contradict itself, that's all.
I guess sometimes it's annoying when you see people spout nonsense, especially when it's clearly designed to provoked a reaction. Just because he's a staff member on a forum doesn't mean he has to censor all his responses, and that was blatantly a post that was designed to have a jab at United. As long as he's not abusing his position as a staff member I don't see an issue with it.
Did you even read what you've just said ?
Should the mods just encourage users to post stupid posts then.
Have you ever heard of context?
Liverpool's history isn't just trophies, it is also without a league title for 3 decades. Even then the vast majority of fans would consider to be a bigger club than City.
City are a pure oil club, they were a yo-yo team before a billionaire decided to invest in them. And they would have never got that investment without the city council allowing investment in the area where they built the Etihad.
You are wrong in thinking just trophies is a barometer of big clubs, whilst it's important but so are other things. Its the reason why Liverpool is still the second biggest club in England.
Not Liverpool related but what do City have to do to they eclipse United, and how long can United continue to not challenge for the league/CL and maintain their place as the biggest club in England?
I suppose the answer to the latter is dependent on what we do? If we were to suddenly end our wait for a league title and bring it to 20:19 in United's favour then maybe it might shift again? Until then United are undoubtedly the biggest club in the country, even after a few bad years.
Maybe the time to worry is if/when United reach 10 years without a title?
I suppose the answer to the latter is dependent on what we do? If we were to suddenly end our wait for a league title and bring it to 20:19 in United's favour then maybe it might shift again? Until then United are undoubtedly the biggest club in the country, even after a few bad years.
Maybe the time to worry is if/when United reach 10 years without a title?
It's mind boggling that Liverpool fans have doubts over them being the 2nd biggest club in England.United and Liverpool are by far the biggest, and had Liverpool not had such a big trophy drought they would be right next to us.
United-Liverpool games bring a massive global audience that can rival the biggest games in the world.
City would have to completely dominate the league like PSG. Then again PSG were actually a big club before the oil money, not the biggest in France but near the top.
Not myself but I thought it was widespread agreed that Liverpool fans like to live in the past, yes.
I am always concerned about Liverpool before a new season starts, and more so this year than earlier. However, the more I worry and the larger the optimism is with my Liverpool supporting friends and family, the greater the pleasure is for me when it ultimately doesn't end in a league title. So, there is that at least.
I haven't actually seen Keita play once, so can't comment, but from what I've read, others seem to think he is the business. The other signings also seem decent and they had a brilliant team to start with. They also have a style of play which suits their personnel. Still, I get the feeling (hope perhaps) that some of the players will experience that the second season in the Premier League can sometimes be difficult. That hopefully goes for Salah, who teams will fear and take into account more this year than last, and the two young fullbacks who had suprisingly good seasons. And, despite missing some players for periods last year (as far as I recall) I also think Liverpool were slightly lucky with injuries in the sense that a long term injury to Salah or Firminho I think would be quite devastating to the way they play, and they don't seem to have any others who can realistically fill their shoes.
Will definitely be an interesting season.
I haven't actually seen Keita play once, so can't comment, but from what I've read, others seem to think he is the business. The other signings also seem decent and they had a brilliant team to start with. They also have a style of play which suits their personnel. Still, I get the feeling (hope perhaps) that some of the players will experience that the second season in the Premier League can sometimes be difficult. That hopefully goes for Salah, who teams will fear and take into account more this year than last, and the two young fullbacks who had suprisingly good seasons. And, despite missing some players for periods last year (as far as I recall) I also think Liverpool were slightly lucky with injuries in the sense that a long term injury to Salah or Firminho I think would be quite devastating to the way they play, and they don't seem to have any others who can realistically fill their shoes.
Will definitely be an interesting season.
Of course not, you just happen to do it in a pretty derogatory manner most of the times imo, especially where Liverpool fans are concerned. Posts like "That's Liverpool fans, you can't argue with them" are a good example of that.
Did you even read what you've just said ?
Should the mods just encourage users to post stupid posts then.
Did you actually read what i said? Maybe re-read the first sentence when i said United were bigger in my opinion so i'm getting nothing mixed up. Historical success obviously United are far bigger and one of the biggest clubs in world football. And stupid fans outnumber rational fans you only need check social media to see that.
Five years is a lifetime nowadays with social media, where everything is instant, instant criticism from millions. Look Spurs with the reputation of bottlers even though they've done brilliantly in recent years competing against clubs with much bigger budgets, but in modern times you either win or you've bottled it, same was said of us reaching the UCL final and "bottling it". There's no fixed amount of years City have to keep dominating to be bigger than United it's determined by individual opinion. There will be city fans who've only known City dominating United. City are a household name too just like United, except City have had a massive advantage to grow with the explosion of social media.
And United fans to be fair used to say to us Chelsea were bigger than us when they were winning trophies constantly i'm sure other Liverpool fans remember this too! If you ask Chelsea fans they will probably consider themselves bigger than us, and maybe they are , it's just a matter of opinion really.
Reading my post in isolation obviously looks like a massive WUM but i was replying to breakout67's post, so apologies if it came across as a WUM.
United are still a much bigger club on social media. Look at who gets the most articles written about them, look how many articles there is about Pogba, Mourinho, United's underperformance. They're by far the most spoken about club around, success or failure.
Five years isn't anywhere near long enough to knock a team off it's perch. United are still ingrained in most football fans memory as the biggest club in England, hence why their matches get watched by more than anybody else, hence why they're able to attract huge sponsors even when they are in a period where the team isn't successful. When United lose it's huge news, and that's because people know they are the biggest club, everybody loved the opportunity to kick them while they were down. Liverpool were poor for an extremely long time, yet still incredibly well supported, still spoken about and viewed as one of the biggest clubs in the world. You can't change this in such a short period of time, it takes a generation in order for this to shift. If anything social media has only put United more in the limelight, because they're so despised by fans of rival clubs it's constantly them being written about.
Those who said that were also morons. Chelsea fans can think what they want, most of the reasonable ones accept that they've had a fantastic period of time due to investment, but are still nowhere near the biggest clubs in England. You can't just rewrite or ignore history, it happened, the league didn't begin 10 years ago. City aren't a household name at all, they aren't even big on social media (look at their followers compared to United) they're just 'meh' ... people don't really care when City win or lose, honestly I have no emotions about them when they win the title. They're just plastic, they have no history or identity, they aren't a big club because they are utterly soulless and not worth caring about.
We're still called bottlers because we still haven't shaken that tag despite doing well in recent years. We still haven't won a trophy and have still fallen at the final hurdles. I guarantee if we won a major trophy it would stop being talked about, but we haven't done that, it's as simple as that. It's up to our team to take that final step.
Genuinely have never actually encountered a City fan. I'm from the South but even at Uni there wasn't a single one, I meet fans of all the big clubs all of the time, even fans of teams like Leicester or Burnley or lower league clubs like Bristol City. The team I played for we had a pretty wide range of fans from across the football leagues, but not a single one supporting Manchester City, they didn't even come up when we were talking about football over a few beers. Maybe they're well supported abroad, but I can honestly say in my experience they don't seem well supported domestically at all.
I feel like most fans (Unless you're supporting United) don't even really care when they win the league. You give a nod to their undeniably fantastic football, but the club itself? No real reaction when they win stuff .. likely down to the fact that I don't actually know any of their fans. Even on social media their presence seems to be tiny so it doesn't really get on your nerves at all. Their presence in the football world is one of absolute irrelevance when you compare them to Liverpool or United, whose fans are all over the country, dominate social media stories and headlines, etc etc.
They're a fantastic team .. but the club itself? Meh.
I feel like most fans (Unless you're supporting United) don't even really care when they win the league. You give a nod to their undeniably fantastic football, but the club itself? No real reaction when they win stuff .. likely down to the fact that I don't actually know any of their fans. Even on social media their presence seems to be tiny so it doesn't really get on your nerves at all. Their presence in the football world is one of absolute irrelevance when you compare them to Liverpool or United, whose fans are all over the country, dominate social media stories and headlines, etc etc.
They're a fantastic team .. but the club itself? Meh.
I presume you're on par with Everton then given you've both won nothing since Fergie retired (as that's obviously how you measure the size and stature of a football club).
The Fergie Retirement Barometer. FRB.
Liverpool are a big club. I don't recall anyone saying otherwise. United are the biggest and most successful however Liverpool would be right behind. Similar gap to how City won the league mind but still.
If you can't take some shit about being stupid then you need to go back to RAWK.
Remember. You're all guests on a United forum. It's not your place so show a little more respect.
So Chelsea are bigger than Liverpool then?
Good to know, it's nice to keep up to date with these things
Good to know, it's nice to keep up to date with these things
I want my pillow chocolate.
That is so true, even United fans are sort of meh about them winning and it drives them mad that no one is particularly fussed.
Swansea and Wigan > Liverpool
Maybe we should talk about how big Liverpool are now?
Milner for POTY anyone?
Ooh the internet
It's a fact some of you need to accept sadly when you want to go on the wind up and beyond the usual banter.
What is with the sudden influx of Liverpool fans over the past month or so?
Breeding like rabbits they are.
Breeding like rabbits they are.
They're confident of doing well this season.
A bad start and 90% of them will disappear as usual.
It's my fault, I'm out of control.
Hopefully.
At least we've got someone to blame now. That all that matters.
You’re becoming one of us mate
United were a bigger club than us even during the 70's & 80's when we were winning everything. Their success under Ferguson came at just the right time for them financially. Premier League money, Champions League format meaning the bigger clubs getting even richer etc. To be successful over a long period of time you need to have the right people, on, & off, the pitch. We did it for nearly 2 decades, & then United did likewise. We do seem to be getting our act together in many respects - good manager & owners who now have a grip of this football lark - so I see now reason why we can't/won't build a better future. As for United, I don't see their attraction dwindling too much, even if they hit a lengthy barren period. I mean, we're heading for nearly 30 years without a title win, & all we've won the past 12 years is a poxy League Cup. Still hasn't stopped us having a massive worldwide fanbase.
A good start and 90% of you will be calling for a cull.
The day that Liverpool win the league is the day that we're gone from this forum.
You’re becoming one of us mate
You might be on to something here.
My neighbour brought a new Audi R8 in March, I have considered stealing his hubcaps every day since.
Not trying to be a WUM here, but my 2 cents worth on the United/City who is a bigger club debate.
Obviously Utd is bigger than City, no doubt about that. No club will ever overtake its rivals in the space of a few years, even Chelsea for a while won everything yet now with Abramovic holding back the funding, they are below Liverpool in the pecking order I believe. But anyway, consider this:
City have a young squad playing some attractive winning football under the best manager in the game right now. They are on an upwards trajectory and may yet create more special memories if they for example have a spectacular CL success. Chelsea had CL success but it was a rather dull final that no one remembers now, I'm talking about some 99/05 level spectacular. That should definitely leave a mark on the younger generations getting into football these days.
The Alexis transfer. Usually you have a big club offering the chance to play attacking football and win, vs a smaller club offering more money. If I were moving to Juve for say 100k a week, a team like Lazio would have to offer me at least 50% for me to consider joining them and missing out on the Juve trophy train. Again keep in mind that by Xmas that City had the title wrapped up, so Alexis definitely traded trophies for money. IIRC he chose United because you guys offered him and his agent silly wages and fees, even sillier than what City were offering. It took ridiculous money to sway him to Utd's side (which is why IMO he is a terrible signing for you, pure mercenary after a big pay day, has shown no discernible passion for the shirt in the games I've seen him play for Utd).
Bigger club? Utd without a doubt. Current momentum/form/in vogue team? City. City may well fade away when their owners start getting bored/broke like Abramovich in recent times (compared to his crazy spending 2003-2006), but it looks like they are trying to put a more stable long term philosophy by hiring Txiki and working on the Academy (we will see if it works or not, but they sure spent a lot of money on it). Who knows where they will be in 10-20 years? I personally hope they crash and burn, competition was tough enough for us anyway when it was just Arsenal and Utd winning the league and we were the big 3. Big 5/6 means less chance for us to win the league.
Obviously Utd is bigger than City, no doubt about that. No club will ever overtake its rivals in the space of a few years, even Chelsea for a while won everything yet now with Abramovic holding back the funding, they are below Liverpool in the pecking order I believe. But anyway, consider this:
City have a young squad playing some attractive winning football under the best manager in the game right now. They are on an upwards trajectory and may yet create more special memories if they for example have a spectacular CL success. Chelsea had CL success but it was a rather dull final that no one remembers now, I'm talking about some 99/05 level spectacular. That should definitely leave a mark on the younger generations getting into football these days.
The Alexis transfer. Usually you have a big club offering the chance to play attacking football and win, vs a smaller club offering more money. If I were moving to Juve for say 100k a week, a team like Lazio would have to offer me at least 50% for me to consider joining them and missing out on the Juve trophy train. Again keep in mind that by Xmas that City had the title wrapped up, so Alexis definitely traded trophies for money. IIRC he chose United because you guys offered him and his agent silly wages and fees, even sillier than what City were offering. It took ridiculous money to sway him to Utd's side (which is why IMO he is a terrible signing for you, pure mercenary after a big pay day, has shown no discernible passion for the shirt in the games I've seen him play for Utd).
Bigger club? Utd without a doubt. Current momentum/form/in vogue team? City. City may well fade away when their owners start getting bored/broke like Abramovich in recent times (compared to his crazy spending 2003-2006), but it looks like they are trying to put a more stable long term philosophy by hiring Txiki and working on the Academy (we will see if it works or not, but they sure spent a lot of money on it). Who knows where they will be in 10-20 years? I personally hope they crash and burn, competition was tough enough for us anyway when it was just Arsenal and Utd winning the league and we were the big 3. Big 5/6 means less chance for us to win the league.
Big Ron Atkinson has tipped them to win the league and they're feeling good.
EDIT: Shit nevermind, that was back in 2003.
You went through all those words just to say United are a bigger club that City? On this we agree. Let's face it, they can't even fill their own stadium.
They do have MASSIVE floodlights however.
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