Liverpool 2014/15 | WARNING: Contains strong amounts of Scouse nonsense

[B20]

Because the team that finished 2nd lost by far it's best player?

And yet, when we went on our best run of the season, it was obviously a team effort with great play spread throughout the side. He wasn't by far our best player in the second half. Best, yes, but he wasn't carrying the team like he was earlier in the season.

And even so, it's silly to just handwave such a discrepancy with one player leaving. it's not as if he isn't being replaced.

For all the talk of spurs poor signings to replace Bale, they only finished 3 points lower the following season despite Tim Sherwood. And were on course for a higher points total than the previous season when they sacked AVB. We're in a quite different situation - We can expect our manager to make even more of a positive difference than last year.

And of course, you managed quite well without Ronaldo despite replacing him with feckin Valencia.

 

[Orc]

Did you have the same reaction when you lost Ronaldo?

We still had quite a few top class players when we sold him.

You don't have anyone near Suarez' class yet.

 

[B20]

James Pearce saying it's £12m + £2m in add ons for Borini. He's also said we've failed to agree a fee with Swansea over Davies and we're prepared to pay £8m for Remy and are currently discussing personal terms.

Can and Lambert will make their debuts tomorrow.

That's an amazing deal. For Borini. I am scared to type my reaction for fear that Sunderland will realise they're ballsing this.

 

[B20]

We still had quite a few top class players when we sold him.

You don't have anyone near Suarez' class yet.

Who did you have near Ronaldo's class?

Why didn't spurs sink like a stone without Bale?

 

[Barney]

That's an amazing deal. For Borini. I am scared to type my reaction for fear that Sunderland will realise they're ballsing this.

I think Borini is a good player, but he doesn't fit in with how we play at all. Going into the season with Sturridge, Remy and Lambert would leave me very happy.

Would you take 84 points this season?

 

[Orc]

And yet, when we went on our best run of the season, it was obviously a team effort with great play spread throughout the side. He wasn't by far our best player in the second half. Best, yes, but he wasn't carrying the team like he was earlier in the season.

And even so, it's silly to just handwave such a discrepancy with one player leaving. it's not as if he isn't being replaced.

For all the talk of spurs poor signings to replace Bale, they only finished 3 points lower the following season despite Tim Sherwood. And were on course for a higher points total than the previous season when they sacked AVB. We're in a quite different situation - We can expect our manager to make even more of a positive difference than last year.

And of course, you managed quite well without Ronaldo despite replacing him with feckin Valencia.

Mate, the main reason I think you guys will finish much lower next season isn't primarily because you've weakened but rather because every club around you has strengthened considerably.

 

[B20]

Would you take 84 points this season?

Absolutely.

 

[B20]

Mate, the main reason I think you guys will finish much lower next season isn't primarily because you've weakened but rather because every club around you has strengthened considerably.

Meh. If we can get near 80 points we're still good. I think that is quite feasible for us. Whereas for you, it is honestly a total unknown what your level is at the moment. Sure, there's the Moyes factor, but there was a lot more going on than that last season. 80 points? It's gonna be a big ask.

Bar city, the rest are still playing catch up to where we were at last season. 3 teams strengthening considerably on paper will most likely not equate to all three teams hauling in considerably more points.

And besides which, city haven't really strenghtened much.

 

[RoadTrip]

Who did you have near Ronaldo's class?

Why didn't spurs sink like a stone without Bale?

You make some valid points to be fair however:

I would say the quality in the PL a a whole the year we won with Valencia was far weaker than this year. You have all the big teams signing heavily and generally it's more competitive.

Secondly, Suarez is much better than Bale was. Suarez was the glue in your team. He worked hard scored goals, assisted goals, an was vital in build up as a team. He was a key reason your team was superb. On the other hand bale was different. The way he carried Spurs was in a much more individual way.

I'm trying to be balanced here. You certainly may still do well without Suarez but the situations are different to Ronaldo and Bale, and I believe the differences I've noted are very valid.

Additionally, in respect of true quality we had Ferdinand and Vidic at their best, Evra at his best, a midfield which still contained the experience and quality of Scholes, wingers who were performing much better than they are now, and a class forward in Rooney. It's very different to Liverpool.

 

[Orc]

Meh. If we can get near 80 points we're still good. I think that is quite feasible for us. Whereas for you, it is honestly a total unknown what your level is at the moment. Sure, there's the Moyes factor, but there was a lot more going on than that last season. 80 points? It's gonna be a big ask.

Bar city, they're still playing catch up to where we were at last season. 3 teams strengthening considerably on paper will not equate to all three teams hauling in considerably more points.

And besides which, city haven't really strenghtened much.

I'm not one of the posters that's confident in us making a title challenge or anything. I'd be reasonably content with 3rd or 4th after the season we've just had. I know we're still quite a ways behind City, Chelsea, and even Arsenal in terms of overall quality.

You're right, City haven't strengthened too much, but did they really need to? Don't see any way that Arsenal and Chelsea aren't better next season. Chelsea especially has addressed every area of concern with a world class player (arguably not in Costa's case) and only finished 2 points behind you and 4 behind City. They were within touching distance of both of you last season when you each scored 100 goals and they had no one up front. Very hard to look past them at the moment.

 

[B20]

So assuming Borini and Assaidi goes through for their quoted fees or near enough: That's around 93m in sales and five players off the wage bill so far. I'd be surprised if Coates and at least one, maybe two, of our centrebacks are still here by summer's end. Let's say total sales of 100m and seven players off the wage bill when all is done with.

We've signed four so far, for 59m. Depending on what you believe, that leaves another 70-100m left in the pot, for what I believe are four more players. I think somewhere between 80m and 90m is probably realistic.

Remy and Moreno would set us back some 29m. That's 50-60m left for a centreback and another attacker.

I expect us to blow some 20m on a centreback and then go balls out for our last attacker. I'd be extremely happy with our summer if we could find a proper target in the 30-40m class to come in. Isco would do very nicely.

The prices quoted for Assaidi and Borini is basically the difference between going for Moreno at 20m and the likes of Davies and Bertrand for 8-10m.

7-9 out, 8 in is what I am seeing.

 

[RoadTrip]

So assuming Borini and Assaidi goes through for their quoted fees or near enough: That's around 93m in sales and five players off the wage bill so far. I'd be surprised if Coates and at least one, maybe two, of our centrebacks are still here by summer's end. Let's say total sales of 100m and seven players off the wage bill when all is done with.

We've signed four so far, for 59m. Depending on what you believe, that leaves another 70-100m left in the pot, for what I believe are four more players. I think somewhere between 80m and 90m is probably realistic.

Remy and Moreno would set us back some 29m. That's 50-60m left for a centreback and another attacker.

I expect us to blow some 20m on a centreback and then go balls out for our last attacker. I'd be extremely happy with our summer if we could find a proper target in the 30-40m class to come in. Isco would do very nicely.

The prices quoted for Assaidi and Borini is basically the difference between going for Moreno at 20m and the likes of Davies and Bertrand for 8-10m.

7-9 out, 8 in is what I am seeing.

Are you still after Lovren? That could be anywhere up to 25m, considering 20 was rejected

 

[B20]

Are you still after Lovren? That could be anywhere up to 25m, considering 20 was rejected

No idea. Gone quiet. Also don't know if it was really 20m that was rejected. Reports differ. We haven't been linked much with anyone else though.

 

[Grinner]

So what's a good season for you lot? Winning a cup and finishing top four?

 

[RoadTrip]

So what's a good season for you lot? Winning a cup and finishing top four?

I think Liverpool fans would be greedy if they asked for more really. Even you guys who have strengthened would be looking at a similar outcome though I could understand hopes for at least a title challenge given Sanchez and possibly Khedira. Chelsea have strengthened big time and City were already very strong so I can't see any of us breaking that top 2 this year.

 

[Glanville95]

Selling Borini for £14M is excellent business for Liverpool. A good player, but they've done spectacularly well to receive a fee in excess of £10M for him.

 

[Grinner]

Yep. Top four is the main one for me as always. A cup is a nice bonus but not essential.

 

[B20]

So what's a good season for you lot? Winning a cup and finishing top four?

Top 4 in a decent fashion. Getting out of the CL group stage and giving a good account of ourselves.

 

[Barney]

So what's a good season for you lot? Winning a cup and finishing top four?

Top four and a trophy. Wouldn't mind winning the Europa league. I think we can win the league though.

 

[caid]

We've signed four so far, for 59m. Depending on what you believe, that leaves another 70-100m left in the pot, for what I believe are four more players. I think somewhere between 80m and 90m is probably realistic.

Yeah but thats kind of the same situation as us.
We have loads of money, doesn't mean were going to get players worth spending it on really.
Until you actually go out and spend that money its all ifs really.
Same with us.

Some have got most, if not all, of their business done so its not a great comparison.
But right now i just cant see liverpool keeping up with arsenal let alone city or chelsea.
I dont see us doing it either but both of us still have business to do obviously and things can change.

I dont think southampton will sell any more players either.
Maybe at extortionate prices.
The rumours about schneiderlin to arsenal and lovren to spurs died too so ... looks like the shop is closed.

 

[B20]

Yeah but thats kind of the same situation as us.
We have loads of money, doesn't mean were going to get players worth spending it on really.
Until you actually go out and spend that money its all ifs really.
Same with us.

Some have got most, if not all, of their business done so its not a great comparison.
But right now i just cant see liverpool keeping up with arsenal let alone city or chelsea.
I dont see us doing it either but both of us still have business to do obviously and things can change.

I dont think southampton will sell any more players either.
Maybe at extortionate prices.
The rumours about schneiderlin to arsenal and lovren to spurs died too so ... looks like the shop is closed.

Moreno and Remy look very On, a proper centreback should be more than feasible in that price range, whether it's Lovren or someone else. I'd be shocked if we didn't make those three signings or different names of similar profile and price.

The big question is the 'marquee' signing - Players in the 30-40m (or even 20-30m) bracket aren't readily available. And they have to fit the bill for the team as well. Sanchez we missed out on. It seems we've changed our mind on Shaqiri. Isco would be a dream if he's on the market. But it is quite probable we simply won't get any of the players we'd want for that.

It's ok if we don't. It'll still be a good summer. Getting that special player on top of those three would make it a great summer though.

 

[Nanook]

How have Liverpool sold Borini for more than they bought him for? Sunderland could have found far better players for £14m than Borini, it's quite amazing how much money is in the premier league these days, Sunderland have been battling relegation for the past two years and they're signing a player for €17.5m.

 

[Irish-Red-7]

It really is amazing how many fancy the team that finished 7th to finish above the team that finished 2nd.

You should know first hand how it happens..

The main reason we finished 7th is gone and the main reason you lot finished 2nd is gone... Simply put! I will elaborate more if you wish!

 

[B20]

You should know first hand how it happens..

The main reason we finished 7th is gone and the main reason you lot finished 2nd is gone... Simply put! I will elaborate more if you wish!

The main reason we finished 2nd was Rodgers. He's still here.

As for the main reason you finished 7th. It remains to be seen how much Ferguson was the main reason you finished 1st the year before. You'll improve I am sure, but it's anyone's guess what you actual level is under a competent non-ferguson manager.

 

[Manucho the boss]

So assuming Borini and Assaidi goes through for their quoted fees or near enough: That's around 93m in sales and five players off the wage bill so far. I'd be surprised if Coates and at least one, maybe two, of our centrebacks are still here by summer's end. Let's say total sales of 100m and seven players off the wage bill when all is done with.

We've signed four so far, for 59m. Depending on what you believe, that leaves another 70-100m left in the pot, for what I believe are four more players. I think somewhere between 80m and 90m is probably realistic.

Remy and Moreno would set us back some 29m. That's 50-60m left for a centreback and another attacker.

I expect us to blow some 20m on a centreback and then go balls out for our last attacker. I'd be extremely happy with our summer if we could find a proper target in the 30-40m class to come in. Isco would do very nicely.

The prices quoted for Assaidi and Borini is basically the difference between going for Moreno at 20m and the likes of Davies and Bertrand for 8-10m.

7-9 out, 8 in is what I am seeing.

Forgive me if I'm forgetting somebody but would you not want the last attacker to be a striker rather than yet another playmaker like Isco.

I can only think of Sturridge who gets his fair share of injuries, and Lambert who I doubt has the fitness levels to lead the line at Liverpool. Maybe Markovich could play up front but surely you'd rather a specialised striker?

 

[caid]

Forgive me if I'm forgetting somebody but would you not want the last attacker to be a striker rather than yet another playmaker like Isco.

I can only think of Sturridge who gets his fair share of injuries, and Lambert who I doubt has the fitness levels to lead the line at Liverpool. Maybe Markovich could play up front but surely you'd rather a specialised striker?

Remy is a striker.

...
Isn't he? lol

 

[B20]

Forgive me if I'm forgetting somebody but would you not want the last attacker to be a striker rather than yet another playmaker like Isco.

I can only think of Sturridge who gets his fair share of injuries, and Lambert who I doubt has the fitness levels to lead the line at Liverpool. Maybe Markovich could play up front but surely you'd rather a specialised striker?

I reckon Remy is that player.

But for the top dog signing, no I'd much rather a creative player than a goalscorer.

 

[Barney]

Forgive me if I'm forgetting somebody but would you not want the last attacker to be a striker rather than yet another playmaker like Isco.

I can only think of Sturridge who gets his fair share of injuries, and Lambert who I doubt has the fitness levels to lead the line at Liverpool. Maybe Markovich could play up front but surely you'd rather a specialised striker?

I think @B20 wants Remy + one other attacking player.

 

[Deleted member 78215]

It really is amazing how many fancy the team that finished 7th to finish above the team that finished 2nd.

Ever heard of outliers and normal distribution? Normalcy, standards, averages etc. win 95% of the time. You can't fight the stats.

 

[B20]

Ever heard of outliers and normal distribution? Normalcy, standards, averages etc. win 95% of the time. You can't fight the stats.

Yes you can. Especially so in football. Stats are also-rans in football.

 

[Orc]

The main reason we finished 2nd was Rodgers. He's still here.

As for the main reason you finished 7th. It remains to be seen how much Ferguson was the main reason you finished 1st the year before. You'll improve I am sure, but it's anyone's guess what you actual level is under a competent non-ferguson manager.

To be honest, I think you and your entire fan base overrate Rodgers massively. Yes, he's clearly got a great understanding of football and had a fantastic season, but that's all. A single season. Liverpool fans and some media are going way overboard with this "Rodgers is a top class, brilliant manager" stuff. It's a bit premature in my eyes.

There were so many factors that contributed to Liverpool having the season they did that have nothing to do with Rodgers being brilliant. I think he's got a TON to prove before we can consider him top class. Making top 4 after losing his only world class player would go a long way. He's got to prove that last season wasn't a flukey, flash in the pan like I and most non-Liverpool supports think it was.

 

[B20]

To be honest, I think you and your entire fan base overrate Rodgers massively. Yes, he's clearly got a great understanding of football and had a fantastic season, but that's all. A single season. Liverpool fans and some media are going way overboard with this "Rodgers is a top class, brilliant manager" stuff. It's a bit premature in my eyes.

There were so many factors that contributed to Liverpool having the season they did that have nothing to do with Rodgers being brilliant. I think he's got a TON to prove before we can consider him top class. Making top 4 after losing his only world class player would go a long way. He's got to prove that last season wasn't a flukey, flash in the pan like I and most non-Liverpool supports think it was.

What about our season didn't have Rodgers imprints all over it?

 

[Manucho the boss]

To be honest, I think you and your entire fan base overrate Rodgers massively. Yes, he's clearly got a great understanding of football and had a fantastic season, but that's all. A single season. Liverpool fans and some media are going way overboard with this "Rodgers is a top class, brilliant manager" stuff. It's a bit premature in my eyes.

There were so many factors that contributed to Liverpool having the season they did that have nothing to do with Rodgers being brilliant. I think he's got a TON to prove before we can consider him top class. Making top 4 after losing his only world class player would go a long way. He's got to prove that last season wasn't a flukey, flash in the pan like I and most non-Liverpool supports think it was.

Lets be honest here you don't fluke a whole season.

I always said the league table doesn't lie after the Scousers found some obscure stat to prove they're the best team in the league on current form etc.

 

[Deleted member 78215]

Top four and a trophy. Wouldn't mind winning the Europa league. I think we can win the league though.

I'm sorry, but I don't know how you can genuinely think that. Your chance was last season: a striker-less Chelsea; City adapting to a new manager; United being managed by Moyes and imploding; Arsenal being Arsenal; and you had the best player in the league.

Even if United aren't challenging, Rodgers doesn't have the managerial ability to push this Liverpool team ahead of City, Chelsea or Arsenal. He played it fast and furious last year which worked because of Suarez and the opposition underestimating you. That's not to say Liverpool's success was just good fortune, there was genuinely good strategy and tactics at times.

This year, however, 4th will be a really good season. Your squad is really average compared to the main challengers.

 

[Deleted member 78215]

Yes you can. Especially so in football. Stats are also-rans in football.

Only when they are actively fought against with stronger forces - City and Chelsea receiving huge investment, for example.

The status quo will be reassumed this season.

 

[Barney]

I'm sorry, but I don't know how you can genuinely think that. Your chance was last season: a striker-less Chelsea; City adapting to a new manager; United being managed by Moyes and imploding; Arsenal being Arsenal; and you had the best player in the league.

Even if United aren't challenging, Rodgers doesn't have the managerial ability to push this Liverpool team ahead of City, Chelsea or Arsenal. He played it fast and furious last year which worked because of Suarez and the opposition underestimating you. That's not to say Liverpool's success was just good fortune, there was genuinely good strategy and tactics at times.

This year, however, 4th will be a really good season. Your squad is really average compared to the main challengers.

If the opposition underestimate us for 38 games then I worry for the state of the league.

 

[Deleted member 78215]

Yes you can. Especially so in football. Stats are also-rans in football.

Only when they are actively fought against with stronger forces - City and Chelsea receiving huge investment, for example.

The status quo will be reassumed this season.

 

[Orc]

What about our season didn't have Rodgers imprints all over it?

Just the same factors that have been mentioned to death.

- You not having to rotate or rest players since you played once a week for much of the season was a big reason I think you finished 2nd.
- Our title winning side being handed to a man way out of his depth.
- Arsenal totally collapsing
- Mourinho not having a striker that scored more than 11 league goals

All that will change this coming season I think and now you don't have the player who directly accounted for nearly half of your teams goals.

 

[Deleted member 78215]

If the opposition underestimate us for 38 games then I worry for the state of the league.

I watched a lot of Liverpool games last season - for some reason - and the naivety displayed by the teams you played was astounding. It reminded me of the year City won the league in 2011/12, teams just didn't know what to do against them for some reason. The season after? Quite a different story.

 

[B20]

Just the same factors that have been mentioned to death.

- You not having to rotate or rest players since you played once a week for much of the season was a big reason I think you finished 2nd.
- Our title winning side being handed to a man way out of his depth.
- Arsenal totally collapsing
- Mourinho not having a striker that scored more than 11 league goals

All that will change this coming season I think and now you don't have the player who directly accounted for nearly half of your teams goals.

What does any of Arsenal, Mourinho or you have to do with us getting the points we did?

Not having to rotate was more than heavily enough offset with having no one to come off the bench for us.