Sometimes managers need certain types of players to implement their style and philosophy. Whilst it doesn’t make sense to us yet, ETH has a plan. So it’s on him to deliver it.
Lisandro Martinez | Signs for United
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Sometimes managers need certain types of players to implement their style and philosophy. Whilst it doesn’t make sense to us yet, ETH has a plan. So it’s on him to deliver it.
And what if he fails as multiple managers before him? We end up with the players that are only good for the previous manager’s style as we don’t have a defined long-term vision. It has proven to be a very expensive and costly strategy for us where the manager has all the power and we’re just working off his wishlist, we haven’t learned shit last season it seems.
I assume we've learned our lesson there atleast. We won't jump from a guy like Ten Hag to someone like Conte / Mourinho.
I'd also prefer to ignore Eriksen, FdJ, Malacia signings here. Malacia, Eriksen were cheap. FdJ is world class so any new manager will be able to use him just fine.
The only questions are if we'll give him both Martinez and Antony. I convinced myself that Martinez is fine because him with FdJ will be a get out of jail free card in terms of build up play. Would like us to try out existing players on the RW before committing significant funds towards Antony.
In my book that's a 50M signing that the new guy wanted and that's reasonable.
If ETH fails then you follow him with another manager with a similar approach to football, so the squad you've built for one isn't immediately redundant. It's not rocket science.
It's not like Martinez is some left-field choice no other manager bar ETH would be interested in. We've had to fight off attention from another one of the CL contenders within our own league as is.
Even if the club was entirely in control of the transfers Martinez would be an obvious target, particularly as the brief would still be to sign players who suit ETH's brand of football.
I see it as he expects our midfield and attack to improve with Martinez's ability to play out from the back.
Offer 50 million euros + Tahith Chong + choice of Jones/Axel/Bailly
why a choice of?
I joke I would be interested to see what if anything ETH could make of Axel
Do we need to put the quotes from Ten Hag about him not being a DM in again?
What quotes like these?
"At the beginning of the season we were looking for a brain for central midfield," Ten Hag said at the time. "We knew Martinez had played in central midfield, but could he do it in Ajax's system? We tried him there and we saw good things.
I'm struggling to dig the quotes out now, but they've definitely been posted in here about Ten Hag trying him there and saying that he doesn't have the stamina to play there and that he's not a midfielder
It is quite interesting to see us go all in for him at 50m if he will play as a CB.
Even in the presser, Ten Hag mentioned midfield and attacking options being a priority.
Surely we all know who's our and England's current LCB and what this signing potentially means.
Possibly because he knows that this one's in the bag. Blind also plays DM once in awhile for added steel in midfield, but I'm quite certain this signing is first and foremost a CB signing.
I would agree but why make Harry Maguire Captain, that means he’s playing him and he’s playing Raphael Varane whose on £300k per week with 3 years left on his contract and will be not sitting on the bench. Lisandro Martinez will play some games in defence when one of those two is injured and some games in a double pivot Midfield against Top 6 teams, good signing as versatile player like Daley Blind but much quicker round the pitch. I can see Victor Lindelof play in some games at Right back too as he’s played there before, just don’t think ETH fancies AWB at all?
Maguire could easily scoot to RCB. There will be enough game time to go around — Varane is injury prone and Lindelof has ongoing back issues.
I agree Axel is worth giving one final chance too as our utility squad defender get rid of Baily and Jones hopefully for £20m combined but unlikely.
I think we are overlooking a lot of points here such as what if we play a back 3? How fit was Varane last year? In reality he wasn't consistently available and on top of that we need a squad. He will not play in DM, he hasn't played there for years, he is a defender.
Why make Maguire captain? I guess it's the relationships between the scenes, it may be destabilizing to chose someone else for the majority, he has to keep the players happy to a degree.
Possible, but nonetheless telling what this signing could entail. None of their positions are safe and they will all have to compete, as it should be after last season.
If this signing goes through it would also mean that United have spent 120M pounds on LCBs. 160M if you include Varane. We are so shit in the transfer market.
Yes Angelo has answered you adequately. If you've had to manage/lead a team then you can understand why. As someone new, you have to pick and choose your battles. Team dynamics and human relationships are fragile things. He's obviously a better manager than us so we'll have to trust in his decision. The fact that the captain's starting position doesn't seem secure is telling, though.
A Maguire and Martinez partnership would surely create issues with a lack of pace in that area?
What if ETH fails talk is doing my head in.
He didn't make Maguire captain, he left Maguire as captain. There's an important distinction.
And being captain doesn't mean you always play. Plenty of clubs have captains who aren't guaranteed starters. Liverpool being an obvious example, as Henderson has had extended periods of not being in the first choice eleven.
If Martinez signs he will be first choice for the LCB slot, even if he ends up being dragged out of there due to issues elsewhere. Maguire isn't going to be ahead of him in that position in an ETH team, particularly when the right-footed Maguire can comfortably slide across to RCB and play there too.
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Just some league stats for those that are interested, and particularly worried about his height:
Aerial duel success:
Maguire - 72.82%
Varane - 73.68% *
Martinez - 70.18%
Ground duel success :
Maguire - 59.38%
Varane - 66.67%
Martinez - 68.18% *
Martinez also comes out with almost twice as many interceptions, and almost twice as many forward passes per 90 minutes.
Stats taken from squawka. Also worth noting the difference in opposition quality.
But it's clear that he's a more proactive, progressive defender than our current options, and he'd allow maguire to move to his preferred right centre back slot, or of course he can play alongside Varane.
Aerial duel success:
Maguire - 72.82%
Varane - 73.68% *
Martinez - 70.18%
Ground duel success :
Maguire - 59.38%
Varane - 66.67%
Martinez - 68.18% *
Martinez also comes out with almost twice as many interceptions, and almost twice as many forward passes per 90 minutes.
Stats taken from squawka. Also worth noting the difference in opposition quality.
But it's clear that he's a more proactive, progressive defender than our current options, and he'd allow maguire to move to his preferred right centre back slot, or of course he can play alongside Varane.
I think interpreting "we're looking for midfielders and forwards" as Martinez will play DM doesn't really work. We haven't got De Jong through the door, he probably wants a right winger, another striker may be on the radar. I reckon he's just talking in generalities more than offering a complete list of his thoughts. It is a good spot though.
i think that has more to do with this forums DM fetish than with actually thinking that Martinez will play as a DM
To be fair he could hardly say the squad is good and then answer “we’re looking for defenders, midfielders and attackers”
The other difference is that we've already lost players from midfield and attack, so they're obvious areas that need strengthening even without any other players leaving.
Whereas defender signings will inevitably mean sales, be it Jones/Bailly at CB or someone like AWB at RB. This with the Malacia signing already having us overstocked at LB with Telles and Williams rumoured to be available. Something you'd be less inclined to get into in press conferences.
Whereas defender signings will inevitably mean sales, be it Jones/Bailly at CB or someone like AWB at RB. This with the Malacia signing already having us overstocked at LB with Telles and Williams rumoured to be available. Something you'd be less inclined to get into in press conferences.
Pau has dreamy eyes and is very tall. So he can be the face of United.
I don't get this argument, "What if he fails". We can do that for any transfer, irrespective of whether manager wants him or DoF wants him.
Yeah, the fact our scouts currently arent doing transfers is really a huge problem for some.
I don't get this argument, "What if he fails". We can do that for any transfer, irrespective of whether manager wants him or DoF wants him.
Yeah, easy to see why there are concerns but reasoning is all wrong IMO.
Good players are good players, unless we sign Shawcross to play for Pep, we really shouldn't be worried about signing good players.
Yes, I mean he wants that and that players cause he knows and trust them. In time he'll get into sync with the club structure, scouts among those too so if in a year he'll still buy just in Eredivisie or among players who played there or for Ajax then I'll be worried.
Worrying now if he'll fail and what if he fails just cause he's buying in the Dutch market is really silly. As you said what if he bought only on scouts' advice and still failed.
Yeah, if next year we are still raiding Dutch league then it's worrying.
I see some serious underestimating of MArtinez' capabilities on here. Due to a lack in height (which factually is true. He is very small for a centre back. But I'm 100% sure that playing in a high line will leave him not too exposed. Plus he is a very good timer and agressive duellist, so I'm certain he will do fine aerially). also due his supposed lack of speed, which is simply untrue. He is fast enough, especially on longer distances. I think Martinez is the most sure thing to perform on the top-level next season out of all Ajax players from last season, and that includes MAzraoui, Timber, Antony and Gravenberch.
Very good post, you might well have a point about Erik feeling he suits a CDM role better in Premier League and a LCB one in Eredivisie.
From the little that I have seen of Martinez, I've been impressed, definitely a player that fits comfortably into the Ten Hag style of play.
I have a sneaky feeling he might be played in Midfield, what are your opinions on that?
He wont. He will play on Varane’s spot.
Surely he'll play on the left hand side of defence. Which is Maguire's spot.
but he did not do that. Lisandro played at centre back for Defensa y Justicia. EtH "moved" him into midfield for half a season then gave up on that.
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