Lisandro Martinez | Signs for United

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VP89 said:
Varane is literally injured even now again after playing internationals. Its silly to hope he can stay fit based on what he did in Madrid pre injury.

Im not saying Martinez is a bad transfer, just saying you can't compare so frivolously to other slow CBs for top teams who had their weaknesses catered for much more.
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I'm not following, don't mean to be disrespectful but it seems like you came into this discussion not knowing what its about.
The discussion is all about center back, a position we'll only reinforce after departures to squad players.
And Martinez isn't slow.
 
Trex said:
I'm not following, don't mean to be disrespectful but it seems like you came into this discussion not knowing what its about.
The discussion is all about center back, a position we'll only reinforce after departures to squad players.
And Martinez isn't slow.
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I just posted your reply to a post which said hes dead slow, to which you pointed out defenders in a team thats not comparable, one of whom wasnt even that good.

Generally we are on the same wavelength though. Taking a step back and evaluating the value of Martinez as a player. My concern is if we will need more pace at the back.
 
Mainoldo said:
I think we will refer back to our scouting options and get Pau. No way we would of let ETH boost Timber to number 1 option and then remove our back up options totally.
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ETH likes his CB to be pretty mobile and able to slot in different roles. Timber for example can cover for RB because ETH's tactics demands him to cover for the wingback when the team is attacking. Martinez does the same to the LB.

I won't be surprised if the board told ETH to build his defence around Maguire. This is not a snipe towards the club, I mean every club in the world would do its best not to throw an 80m in cash signing in the bin. On the other hand we'll be doing our very best to offload Tuanzebe, Bailly and Jones. Under such circumstances I won't be surprised if ETH will be adding as much pace as possible. He'd initially bring Martinez as he's cheap (we'll probably recoup most of the money by selling Bailly and Tuanzebe) then we'll get Timber in January only to move Martinez in an anchor role. Thus we'll surround Maguire with as much pace as possible.
 
VP89 said:
I just posted your reply to a post which said hes dead slow, to which you pointed out defenders in a team thats not comparable, one of whom wasnt even that good.

Generally we are on the same wavelength though. Taking a step back and evaluating the value of Martinez as a player. My concern is if we will need more pace at the back.
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OK I didn't mean Martinez is dead slow, I was replying a poster who said Maguire can't play a high line due to his lack of pace which I disagree giving players who play a high line, one being Blind who played under ETH.
The whole discussion started when I mentioned sky's Damesh said Center back isn't a priority which I see sense in considering our manager spoke about getting more out of the potential of current players, which I feel there's more to be gotten out of our current options.
Although I'm not oppose to signing a center back but only after sales of the likes of Bailly, Jones and Tuanzebe.
 
groovyalbert said:
With the crazy Haller deal on top of others, will Ajax really need to sell the likes of Martinez, Timber and Antony?
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Ajax don't have to sell and sources close to Ajax have come out today saying no more players will leave unless there's an offer Ajax can't refuse of course. Hence Ajax will not sell for just a reasonable offer.

Timber seems likely to stay for his WC chances. I think Ajax will only think about selling around €50m for Martinez and about €80m for Antony. Ajax are in no need to sell them and they both have 3 years left on their contract.
 
AltiUn said:
Looks like our interest has forced Arsenal to act. Expect them to have this wrapped up in the next few days.
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If we really want him we should be able to get him, our ajax links(ten hag and Edwin) are stronger than anything Arsenal has at the moment.
 
Daslogisch said:
Ajax don't have to sell and sources close to Ajax have come out today saying no more players will leave unless there's an offer Ajax can't refuse of course. Hence Ajax will not sell for just a reasonable offer.

Timber seems likely to stay for his WC chances. I think Ajax will only think about selling around €50m for Martinez and about €80m for Antony. Ajax are in no need to sell them and they both have 3 years left on their contract.
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In which case it's probably moving on from Ajax options then. With the exception of Timber, I don't think any of the others are worth those fees.
 
I’ve seen he’s very good on the ball, has an eye for a pass, aggressive, chases everything and man marks for days so would he not be better to play alongside De Jong in a midfield two given his size rather than as a centre back ? I’d imagine having Martinez and De Jong in front of the defence would be a far stronger shield than McTominay and Fred ?
 
Daslogisch said:
Ajax don't have to sell and sources close to Ajax have come out today saying no more players will leave unless there's an offer Ajax can't refuse of course. Hence Ajax will not sell for just a reasonable offer.

Timber seems likely to stay for his WC chances. I think Ajax will only think about selling around €50m for Martinez and about €80m for Antony. Ajax are in no need to sell them and they both have 3 years left on their contract.
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Ajax will sell Antony, they don't want a repeat of David Neres, where they didn't sell him at his peak value. Plus they are going to buy Bergwijn.
 
Trex said:
Pique is slow, Hummels too it didn't stop them from playing in high lines.
The idea that 2/3 of the Ajax team would walk into united and be obvious upgrade on our team I don't get it.
Don't forget DVB was a key player there too.
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This we can agree on. Pique and Hummels are both wayyy better than Maguire + were never as good as people made them out to be imo.
 
Mainoldo said:
What position did he play in Argentina.
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LCB in a two for Defensa. Was only at Ajax they moved him to DM, now hes back to CB. In Argentina he had high ball winning stats from CB as well as being good on the ball which is presumably why he was used in midfield at Ajax
 
Hopefully Vanders is doing United and Ten Hag a favor. Not selling him to Arsenal.
Edwin Van Der Saar ex United player. Lisandro Martinez was working for Ten Hag for 3 years. United bigger club than Arsenal. United have some advantages over Arsenal.

Shall be a quick done deal this one. Let the boy join United the pre season early. To him get to know and understand United teammates and vice versa. Ideally as soon as possible.

Strength Martinez as CB. De Jong as brain and creative mind of the team. And one of the assist kings in football in Christian Eriksen. It would be a really good summer transfer. If you adding the really promising left back in Malacia.

Then RW can add latest. Because there are 3 realistic RW out there. Raphinha, Antony and Leverkusen Diaby. Enough to choose from.

But back to Martinez precise long passes. He hit and ping the ball with so feeling in it. And it’s so easily. Just look closely on his pass foot. Special long diagonal passes. Top and highest class level.

Martinez to Raphinha. And Raphinha run down the line and deliver 45 angle pass to United CF. Ronaldo or Rashford. One way to score goals.

Buy Martinez. Then I will rise and convince De Jong that United is building a good team. And after Martinez and De Jong. It will it easier to convince others best players in theirs positions.

So with Arsenal really want Martinez. I will categorize Martinez run to buy before others category. Even with the connection and relation. This shall be a quick deal. And the pre season is starting really soon. All just positive both for United, Ajax and the player if this is a quick deal.

25-30 mill £ plus add ons if he helping United to champion league football and more if winning the league.
West Ham just bought a 30 mill £ for another CB. 30 mill £ is a fair transfer fee for both Ajax and United.

Again.Martinez, De Jong, Eriksen, Malacia and one of the RW suggested above. Then I will be really happy…with this summer transfer window.

Whole United squad 22/23:

De Gea, Heaton
Bissaka/LindeloF/Dalot - Varane/McTom - Martinez/Maguire - Malacia/Shaw

One of Raphinha/Antony/Diaby/Sancho - Eriksen/Bruno/Hannibal=RCM - Fred/Garner/De Jong = CDM - De Jong/DVB/Eriksen = LCM - Sancho/Rashford/Garnacho + Ronaldo/Rashford/Bruno

Double covered for each position

Martinez - 30 mill £
De Jong - 60 mill £
Eriksen and Garner = Free
Malacia - 20 mill £
One of the RW - 40 - 50 £ mill

Sum around plus minus = 160 mill £ for 4 really good players + Eriksen for free = a good summer transfer window ;)
 
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Trex said:
Blind isn't any faster and played center back a lot for ETH.
With regards Lindelof I can't comment on the immediate past season but the season before when Ole had us trying to play out from the back both him and Maguire was fine keeping the ball under pressure.
Maguire looked better because he had Shaw next to him who was press resistant while Lindelof option was mainly AWB, the structure of play didn't help at all, Awb who didn't want the ball, or Mctominay dropping off to receive made him look crap at times.
Improve the receiver and structure of play around our center back and see how they become better.
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But Maguire isn’t as good as blind on the ball. You gotta be special at something when you have weakness or limitation to ensure that the manager thinks I need that strength/speciality of yours. Not like Lindelof where he’s not special at something or may be even Maguire.

In addition, having a left footed as LCB is helping a lot to play from the back. How many times we see Maguire reluctance to pass the ball with his left foot, which could slow down the play and also if he wants to switch play, he will need to use his right footed, again slowing down the play. Having left footed or someone who can comfortably using left foot as your left centre back is necessary.
 
Fbref has him at bottom 20th percentile of % of aerial duels won for centre backs, and 23rd percentile for total aerials won. Given he's 5ft 9 is anyone in the least bit surprised.

I honestly don't get it. We've been through all this in the Timber thread so not worth going through it again. In the Timber thread we were struggling to name a single regular centre back in the premier league under 6ft, nevermind one who's just 5ft 9. It's not a coincidence. If they somehow had amazing aerial stats despite their height, then fair enough. But they don't. They're statistically weak in the air which is exactly what you'd expect. Anyway, it seems we're determined to try this experiment of whether we can "get away with it", so I guess we'll see how it turns out.
 
Rolaholic said:
We spent a world record fee on one not that long ago and well...how has that worked out for us?

We currently have no CB's under 6ft at the club yet we just had our worst defence ever in the PL this past season
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Such a bizarre post.

Klopp signed Konate, Matip and VVD who are giants and it didn't work out too badly. See how we can all play this game?

How many premier league centre backs who play regularly are under 6ft? In a back 4 too? Do you not think there may be a reason for that? And not just under 6ft, way under at just 5ft9?
 
Maybe he will play DM for us? Or LCB, which would mitigate a bit the negative effects of his height as a CB. I doubt he will play in a back four as a CB for us
 
Tenacious, left footed and versatile Argentinian defender?

I don't think I've seen one mention of Rojo in the whole thread yet.

Anyways, this Martinez lad, can he make a good toast?
 
Rolaholic said:
We spent a world record fee on one not that long ago and well...how has that worked out for us?

We currently have no CB's under 6ft at the club yet we just had our worst defence ever in the PL this past season
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“We signed tall centre halves and it didn’t work, so now we should sign short ones.”
 
Dominos said:
Such a bizarre post.

Klopp signed Konate, Matip and VVD who are giants and it didn't work out too badly. See how we can all play this game?

How many premier league centre backs who play regularly are under 6ft? In a back 4 too? Do you not think there may be a reason for that? And not just under 6ft, way under at just 5ft9?
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The point is that the manager is looking for a specific skillset and profile at CB for his defense rather than height...

If he can find defenders above 6ft that fit the bill that's fine, if he finds some under that shouldn't be an issue either. It's the talk of looking at 6ft and above defenders just for the sake of their height that's bizzare when we've never once lacked that at the back for years now.

Naturally being tall hasn't made them better defenders or made for a more organized defense... it's got feck all to do with it and you'll still find some of the top defenders in the world still being fine at their craft without imposing height.
 
LuckyScout78 said:
Hopefully Vanders is doing United and Ten Hag a favor. Not selling him to Arsenal.
Edwin Van Der Saar ex United player. Lisandro Martinez was working for Ten Hag for 3 years. United bigger club than Arsenal. United have some advantages over Arsenal.

Shall be a quick done deal this one. Let the boy join United the pre season early. To him get to know and understand United teammates and vice versa. Ideally as soon as possible.

Strength Martinez as CB. De Jong as brain and creative mind of the team. And one of the assist kings in football in Christian Eriksen. It would be a really good summer transfer. If you adding the really promising left back in Malacia.

Then RW can add latest. Because there are 3 realistic RW out there. Raphinha, Antony and Leverkusen Diaby. Enough to choose from.

But back to Martinez precise long passes. He hit and ping the ball with so feeling in it. And it’s so easily. Just look closely on his pass foot. Special long diagonal passes. Top and highest class level.

Martinez to Raphinha. And Raphinha run down the line and deliver 45 angle pass to United CF. Ronaldo or Rashford. One way to score goals.

Buy Martinez. Then I will rise and convince De Jong that United is building a good team. And after Martinez and De Jong. It will it easier to convince others best players in theirs positions.

So with Arsenal really want Martinez. I will categorize Martinez run to buy before others category. Even with the connection and relation. This shall be a quick deal. And the pre season is starting really soon. All just positive both for United, Ajax and the player if this is a quick deal.

25-30 mill £ plus add ons if he helping United to champion league football and more if winning the league.
West Ham just bought a 30 mill £ for another CB. 30 mill £ is a fair transfer fee for both Ajax and United.

Again.Martinez, De Jong, Eriksen, Malacia and one of the RW suggested above. Then I will be really happy…with this summer transfer window.

Whole United squad 22/23:

De Gea, Heaton
Bissaka/LindeloF/Dalot - Varane/McTom - Martinez/Maguire - Malacia/Shaw

One of Raphinha/Antony/Diaby/Sancho - Eriksen/Bruno/Hannibal=RCM - Fred/Garner/De Jong = CDM - De Jong/DVB/Eriksen = LCM - Sancho/Rashford/Garnacho + Ronaldo/Rashford/Bruno

Double covered for each position

Martinez - 30 mill £
De Jong - 60 mill £
Eriksen and Garner = Free
Malacia - 20 mill £
One of the RW - 40 - 50 £ mill

Sum around plus minus = 160 mill £ for 4 really good players + Eriksen for free = a good summer transfer window ;)
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Don’t think we could get De Jong for 60m. Barca is holding out for 100m euros,
 
Strootman's Finger said:
Ajax will sell Antony, they don't want a repeat of David Neres, where they didn't sell him at his peak value. Plus they are going to buy Bergwijn.
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Antony is far better than Neres. In hindsight Neres should have been sold earlier, but Antony is far more consistent than Neres ever was.

Ajax is going for Bergwijn to add to the squad, basicly still to replace Neres. Antony is Ajax' best attacker with a 3 year deal. No way Ajax will let him go for a modest fee. There's a WC coming up and Antony has been starting games for Brazil recently. His value is more likely to skyrocket rather than decrease. I'll be surprised if Ajax would let him go under €75m.

Ajax has already lost Onana, Gravenberch, Mazraoui and looks likely to sell Haller as well. It was confirmed by sources close to Ajax as well that no more players would leave unless there's offers coming in that are too ridiculous to refuse.
 
Daslogisch said:
Antony is far better than Neres. In hindsight Neres should have been sold earlier, but Antony is far more consistent than Neres ever was.

Ajax is going for Bergwijn to add to the squad, basicly still to replace Neres. Antony is Ajax' best attacker with a 3 year deal. No way Ajax will let him go for a modest fee. There's a WC coming up and Antony has been starting games for Brazil recently. His value is more likely to skyrocket rather than decrease. I'll be surprised if Ajax would let him go under €75m.

Ajax has already lost Onana, Gravenberch, Mazraoui and looks likely to sell Haller as well. It was confirmed by sources close to Ajax as well that no more players would leave unless there's offers coming in that are too ridiculous to refuse.
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Who the feck is buying Haller? :lol:
 
Bebestation said:
I have been wanting him for ages. Im more for this than timber personally.
This gives us a Left footed CB and a player that can play at CDM & LB too.

its 3 weaknesses in one even if its just cover, it improves the squad.

@AjaxCunian

mate, rate in order of opinion - De Ligt, Martinez, Schurrs, timber, Botman
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Pau Torres
 
5'9 is a concern no matter how you look at it. Seems like something you'd get away with in the Dutch league. You can argue we will play a high line and it matters less but we can't be naive enough to think we're not going to come under pressure and receive balls into our box. It's a target for the opposition.
 
Dominos said:
Fbref has him at bottom 20th percentile of % of aerial duels won for centre backs, and 23rd percentile for total aerials won. Given he's 5ft 9 is anyone in the least bit surprised.

I honestly don't get it. We've been through all this in the Timber thread so not worth going through it again. In the Timber thread we were struggling to name a single regular centre back in the premier league under 6ft, nevermind one who's just 5ft 9. It's not a coincidence. If they somehow had amazing aerial stats despite their height, then fair enough. But they don't. They're statistically weak in the air which is exactly what you'd expect. Anyway, it seems we're determined to try this experiment of whether we can "get away with it", so I guess we'll see how it turns out.
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He won 67%, of his aerial duels which is among the highest in the Dutch League.
 
Daily Star claiming we are hijacking the deal. Ah yes, our "hijack" policy has worked so well in the past!
 
Some people seem still to refuse the idealism of ten Hag defenders. Being very good with progressing the ball is his number one priority to make his system works. Being short or aerially weak is the least of his concern.
 
AD.nl are saying we're preparing an offer.


Ajax wants to use the money to finally release attackers Steven Bergwijn and Brian Brobbey at Tottenham Hotspur and RB Leipzig respectively. It may not stop at those mutations, because more pillars and trendsetters are emphatically in the crosshairs of European top clubs. Especially Manchester United, the new club of former Ajax coach Erik ten Hag, has targets in the Johan Cruijff Arena. For example, the English top club is preparing an offer for Antony and Lisandro Martínez is also high on Ten Hag's list.

The Brazil international has become a concrete option after United grabbed next to Darwin Nuñez. The Uruguayan striker chose Liverpool . Antony himself fervently hopes to make a dream transfer this summer. He also sees Martínez. The Argentine mandekker is still preferable to Pau Torres (Villarreal) at United, which first wants to strengthen the midfield.
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