Lisandro Martinez | Signs for United

[BrilliantOrange]

Likewise

Deal! Ive been here for a while, dont worry..

 

[RedRonaldo]

I hope we're not signing him because of these videos. Ajax are beating Dortmund 4-0 in one of them. Hardly a good reference point

Apparently we signed him because of ETH, his club manager in past 3 seasons, you know.

 

[Olecurls99]

Apparently we signed him because of ETH, his club manager in past 3 seasons, you know.

Which makes me question the new manager too? Too slow, too small and gives the ball away needlessly because he's too small and too slow

 

[Bebestation]

I have always been interested in him but it feels weird to go for him and Malacia in the same window.

We have about 5 players that could player or cover the LB role now if the transfers go through.

 

[Newtonius]

Can he play as a defensive mid too?

Hope so, imagine Little Tyrel and Lisandro at LCB/LB will get mugged.

 

[roonster09]

Which makes me question the new manager too? Too slow, too small and gives the ball away needlessly because he's too small and too slow

No, you should question your judgement if you somehow come to conclusion that "he gives away ball needlessly".

This is the player who has 89% pass completion in Dutch league and 92% in Champions league. In CL he is in top 5% CBs when it comes to pass completion. He is also in top 1% for pass attempted and progressive passes.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

I have always been interested in him but it feels weird to go for him and Malacia in the same window.

We have about 5 players that could player or cover the LB role now if the transfers go through.

It seems like the idea is to play 3 at the back with wing backs providing width, two box to box midfielders a creative #10 and inside forwards.

 

[Olecurls99]

No, you should question your judgement if you somehow come to conclusion that "he gives away ball needlessly".

This is the player who has 89% pass completion in Dutch league and 92% in Champions league. In CL he is in top 5% CBs when it comes to pass completion. He is also in top 1% for pass attempted and progressive passes.

It's not the passing I'm talking about. Have a read of what I said.

It's when the ball is there to be won. He 'wins' it and concedes it straight away. Varane is much better than him. Much better

 

[roonster09]

It's not the passing I'm talking about. Have a read of what I said.

It's when the ball is there to be won. He 'wins' it and concedes it straight away. Varane is much better than him. Much better

If Varane is better then good, it's not MMA. It's football so play together in same team.

 

[redcucumber]

Varane is miles better lads. Miles better

The guy that struggles to stay fit for more than 50% of games? And who, when was fit, was absolutely useless for us? He had a great career in Madrid but he's got it all to prove here.

 

[GoonerBear]

Weren't the bids supposed to be the same ?
afcstuff used to be quite reliable but there is nothing on that account timeline and since they've been "bought" by Sportbible it's gone downhill.

Anyway feels more and more like he's going to United and Arsenal will look elsewhere.

We've no chance of beating Utd to him. The Ten Hag, Van der Sar, Ajax Utd connection always meant we were up against it if Utd really were interested.

Not too disappointed as long as we find an alternative, I know this lad was probably to cover a few areas but most important is we need that left back area covered.

I am wondering maybe its his positioning/anticipation/aggressiveness/jumping which makes him wins alot of ariel duels?

I think that's exactly what it is. If you compare him to our Ben White for instance, I think he'll do better on duels than him, because hes more aggressive & plays more on the front foot.

White for me is too passive at times, and I don't think his decision making in when to compete for the first ball and when to focus more on winning the 2nd ball is quite there. I think he lacks the aggression in the tackle at times that Martinez has as well.

 

[sillwuka]

I'm more excited about this guy.
I don't know exactly why but there was something about timber which turned me off believing he won't make it.

Same, he just looked ordinary to me.

 

[UnitedSofa]

Which makes me question the new manager too? Too slow, too small and gives the ball away needlessly because he's too small and too slow

This is the same type of poster that would bitch and moan if he went to Arsenal and bossed the league & call the club incompetent.

Trust ETH.

 

[Bondi77]

I hope we're not signing him because of these videos. Ajax are beating Dortmund 4-0 in one of them. Hardly a good reference point

Also in both these videos I'm seeing him boot or head the ball away when there's a chance to keep it. Because he's a little guy heading the ball people are impressed but a good defender finds a teammate in these circumstances. He's also very slow and he resorts to fouling when he's caught up against a quick attacker.

Varane is miles better lads. Miles better

I don’t think I saw Varane play more than three consecutive games for us last season and it looks like he is injury prone at this stage in his career

 

[WhyYouGottaBeSoRuud?]

Assuming he is potentially listed to play DM? As good as he's been in the Netherlands a 5'9" centre back doesn't fill me with confidence.

I'd rather have Sangare or someone else to be honest. Prove me wrong Lisandro.

 

[suheilsworld]

Better signing than Timber tbh.

Any player that comes into a new team has to deal with either of two or one things
1. New league and style of play
2. New manager and new system

At least the latter is covered as this guy knows what it is to play under ETH, in multiple positions. When it comes to adjusting in the league, you just can’t say as many greats have struggled and we’ve seen some surprises on the way.

I’m quite ok on his arrival as he covers multiple positions and just the kind of player we need until our next major transfer window. Remember, we can’t cover all the gaps at one go

 

[OpenIntrovert]

Which makes me question the new manager too? Too slow, too small and gives the ball away needlessly because he's too small and too slow

How you are seeing the player and how the manager sees the player are too different things. ETH is looking at Martinez because he is versatile enough to play anywhere across the front four or as a DM.

In terms of skills, he has very good ability to read the game and immediately make a decision, which is a very important attribute for a CB or a DM. His positioning is also very good. The reason why he appears slow is that he tends to read the game based on how the attacks are flowing, rather than lunging into challenges the moment they have the ball. A CB/DM's key strength is not the amount of tackles they make, but how they position themselves into ensuring that the opponents do not have sufficient channels to attack, resulting in interceptions by them or the main defence.

 

[BrilliantOrange]

Better signing than Timber tbh.

Any player that comes into a new team has to deal with either of two or one things
1. New league and style of play
2. New manager and new system

At least the latter is covered as this guy knows what it is to play under ETH, in multiple positions. When it comes to adjusting in the league, you just can’t say as many greats have struggled and we’ve seen some surprises on the way.

I’m quite ok on his arrival as he covers multiple positions and just the kind of player we need until our next major transfer window. Remember, we can’t cover all the gaps at one go

Another thing is that he is more mature than Timber he.. I dont really mean as a player as I think Timber is impressively mature for his age, but as a person...

Martinez already once moved to the other side of the world and had to adapt to a new style of play in another country where people speak a different language and there is a whole other culture.. Timber still lives with his parents under the smoke of Amsterdam..

Not that that's a bad thing and think Timber would be an amazing buy for United, but given the above its likely that Martinez will be able to settle and adapt more quickly than Timber..

 

[OpenIntrovert]

Assuming he is potentially listed to play DM? As good as he's been in the Netherlands a 5'9" centre back doesn't fill me with confidence.

I'd rather have Sangare or someone else to be honest. Prove me wrong Lisandro.

A manager is not that clueless. If the immediate opponent favors a long ball with strong CFs, he will likely push Martinez into a DM role with either 2 of Varane, Lindelof and Maguire holding against the CF. He can also get the taller CB to mark the CF while Martinez plays like a sweeper.

 

[Olecurls99]

How you are seeing the player and how the manager sees the player are too different things. ETH is looking at Martinez because he is versatile enough to play anywhere across the front four or as a DM.

In terms of skills, he has very good ability to read the game and immediately make a decision, which is a very important attribute for a CB or a DM. His positioning is also very good. The reason why he appears slow is that he tends to read the game based on how the attacks are flowing, rather than lunging into challenges the moment they have the ball. A CB/DM's key strength is not the amount of tackles they make, but how they position themselves into ensuring that the opponents do not have sufficient channels to attack, resulting in interceptions by them or the main defence.

He's making the most of his ability and he seems a smart player but I just don't think he's good enough for us.

 

[sullydnl]

Assuming he is potentially listed to play DM? As good as he's been in the Netherlands a 5'9" centre back doesn't fill me with confidence.

I'd rather have Sangare or someone else to be honest. Prove me wrong Lisandro.

Think a lot of people are talking about him playing as a DM because they want a DM or they don't trust a smaller CB. But his best position is centre-back by all accounts. If we sign him, expect him to primarily play there. And if we want a DM, we need to go and sign an actual DM.

 

[Chicharo]

Think a lot of people are talking about him playing as a DM because they want a DM or they don't trust a smaller CB. But his best position is centre-back by all accounts. If we sign him, expect him to primarily play there. And if we want a DM, we need to go and sign an actual DM.

I agree, but we all agree we're desperate for DM. Yet, we haven't signed one of years. It's not just the case - ok we tried, but didn't work, we didn't try. How on Earth are we missing every opportunity to sign ANYONE

 

[devilish]

Our squad has alot of positions to fill and a limited budget to work upon. I think that ETH sees in Martinez a dependable terrier who can cover various roles. That would allow him to plug the gaps up until the manager decides whether he needs to spend more money on either a CB or a DM

 

[MalaysianRed7]

Not going to pretend like I’ve watched him loads bar the odd CL game, but Haaland didn’t have a sniff when they beat Dortmund 4-0 last year. His long and short passing were excellent as well. £34m sounds like an awesome deal. About his height, when you think about it, most world class defenders these days aren’t necessarily behemoths aside from maybe Van Dijk.

 

[youmeletsfly]

If this means the English overrated trash captain doesn't play, I'm all in for Martinez.

 

[Godfather]

Very pleased if this comes off. Will be interesting to see whose place he takes. I hope Maguire

 

[Teja]

Anyone have Eredivisie stats for this guy? FBRef does not carry those. From what they do have (720 mins, all CL games), he has some concerning numbers there.

Passing:

44th percentile in passes out of bounds. (kicks it out a bit)
7th percentile in the number of passes intercepted. (passes a lot and as a result gives it away a lot too?)
51st percentile in passes blocked. (same as above)

Defensively, re: him being weak physically

36th percentile in successful pressures
1st percentile in successful pressure %
1st percentile in blocks
38th percentile in Interceptions

He has some stellar stats too, don't get me wrong but there are some concerns.

 

[Zoo]

 

[Ronaldo's Love Child]

So was Timber ETH's preferred defensive signing for us and Martinez is plan B?

 

[Leftback99]

It's concerning that our scouting is basically non existent and our approach is just buy Dutch. PL is a completely different level.

Height is a big concern (don't expect us to improve on set pieces which we are dreadful on). On the plus side it brings good balance to the squad to have a left footed centre back and he looks very good in possession. A partnership of him and Maguire could work well although lacking in pace.

 

[Bebestation]

It seems like the idea is to play 3 at the back with wing backs providing width, two box to box midfielders a creative #10 and inside forwards.

The guy I always didn’t understand in a back 3 set up is Sancho.

He isn’t forward enough to play in a 352 whilst in a 343 that leaves out Bruno and requires a perfect midfield partner for someone like de Jong which we don’t have either.

 

[The Original]

Not going to pretend like I’ve watched him loads bar the odd CL game, but Haaland didn’t have a sniff when they beat Dortmund 4-0 last year. His long and short passing were excellent as well. £34m sounds like an awesome deal. About his height, when you think about it, most world class defenders these days aren’t necessarily behemoths aside from maybe Van Dijk.

Really? Cant think of any of the top 10 who arent physically imposing....

Just take the starting pair for the top 5,

Diaz
Laporte
V. Dijk
Matip
Rudiger
Silva
Sanchez
Dier
Gabriel
White

None below 6 ft. And if you remove White, none below 6, 2 probably.

 

[redcucumber]

If this means the English overrated trash captain doesn't play, I'm all in for Martinez.

Is this necessary?

 

[sullydnl]

It's concerning that our scouting is basically non existent and our approach is just buy Dutch. PL is a completely different level.

Height is a big concern (don't expect us to improve on set pieces which we are dreadful on). On the plus side it brings good balance to the squad to have a left footed centre back and he looks very good in possession. A partnership of him and Maguire could work well although lacking in pace.

We already have the tallest team in the league. If set-pieces were about height, we wouldn't have a problem in the first place. Meanwhile City, one of the smaller teams in the league, have the best record for set piece goals conceded. That's how little height counts for in isolation.

 

[Bondi77]

Another thing is that he is more mature than Timber he.. I dont really mean as a player as I think Timber is impressively mature for his age, but as a person...

Martinez already once moved to the other side of the world and had to adapt to a new style of play in another country where people speak a different language and there is a whole other culture.. Timber still lives with his parents under the smoke of Amsterdam..

Not that that's a bad thing and think Timber would be an amazing buy for United, but given the above its likely that Martinez will be able to settle and adapt more quickly than Timber..

Can he speak English?

 

[andersj]

Anyone have Eredivisie stats for this guy? FBRef does not carry those. From what they do have (720 mins, all CL games), he has some concerning numbers there.

Passing:

44th percentile in passes out of bounds. (kicks it out a bit)
7th percentile in the number of passes intercepted. (passes a lot and as a result gives it away a lot too?)
51st percentile in passes blocked. (same as above)

Defensively, re: him being weak physically

36th percentile in successful pressures
1st percentile in successful pressure %
1st percentile in blocks
38th percentile in Interceptions

He has some stellar stats too, don't get me wrong but there are some concerns.

Considering his completion rate, I would assume it is a result of the amount of passes he makes.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

The guy I always didn’t understand in a back 3 set up is Sancho.

He isn’t forward enough to play in a 352 whilst in a 343 that leaves out Bruno and requires a perfect midfield partner for someone like de Jong which we don’t have either.

Bruno can play as a false 9 or off the wing in a front three, he roams a lot anyways. Fred is good enough as the other midfielder if the whole defensive line pushes forward like it should.

Without an out and out center forward, I think that suits all our players better.

 

[BrilliantOrange]

Can he speak English?

As far as I know most interviews Ive seen him giving are in Spanish.. But no clue...

 

[spaceboyRSA]

Is this necessary?

Thank you

 

[Lynty]

Looks like a more aggressive Daley Blind, whom I loved at United. So all for this transfer.