Lisandro Martinez | Signs for United

Status
Not open for further replies.
Tom Van Persie said:
Both are very close to done deals. If we're serious about landing Martinez and are willing to pay around 40M for him then I don't think Arsenal stand much of a chance. I think Martinez would prefer to come here and play under ten Hag again. Not to mention we have agent Edwin. :devil:
Click to expand...
Yeah I think hes ours if we act. But I wonder if we are just checking Antony/Gnabry appetite on the side.

The funny thing with Arsenal is I don't know where he fits. LB? But not ahead of Tierney. Perhaps he replaces Gabriel/White but I would imagine not from game 1. I also reckon Arsenal maybe should have gotten a traditional 9 than Jesus.

Hey ho, Martinez is player of the year for Ajax, I haven't seen much of him but would imagine he suits us more than them.
 
Fortitude said:
I find it interesting that people automatically attribute these Ajax players to their established position on the pitch. I’d have thought the first thing to consider each time is what they offer and how they are generally expected to be capable in multiple positions, which in turn benefits them when they move on. The need we have for him is DM, at another club, he’d be going as a LB and another still, he’d be a CB.

Of course, all subject to change in the future, even at the club he joins - but the very first thing to utilise is the eclectic nature of these players to fill the particular hole in your squad, is it not?

For us, it’s exactly the crossover of positions we’re desperate to fill in with him being a DM as well as a CB who can fill in at LB or LCB. Tactically, it’s a dream signing who gives so much flexibility outside of simply using him in midfield, but I don’t think of the guy as CB above all else - he’s Rice for half or a third of the price!
Click to expand...
That's all fine and dandy but it won't be worth jackshit if he simply isn't up to the standand of pl, it would be basically throwing away 50 mil euros of cash out the window.

I like the kid but not let's get ahead of ourselves, question marks are all over him.
However I would be absolutely delighted if he becomes a successful dm for us, would immediately push our midfield into title challenging quality with the arrival of de jong.
 
Fortitude said:
I find it interesting that people automatically attribute these Ajax players to their established position on the pitch. I’d have thought the first thing to consider each time is what they offer and how they are generally expected to be capable in multiple positions, which in turn benefits them when they move on. The need we have for him is DM, at another club, he’d be going as a LB and another still, he’d be a CB.

Of course, all subject to change in the future, even at the club he joins - but the very first thing to utilise is the eclectic nature of these players to fill the particular hole in your squad, is it not?

For us, it’s exactly the crossover of positions we’re desperate to fill in with him being a DM as well as a CB who can fill in at LB or LCB. Tactically, it’s a dream signing who gives so much flexibility outside of simply using him in midfield, but I don’t think of the guy as CB above all else - he’s Rice for half or a third of the price!
Click to expand...
I would assume that he will play CM since we have not replaced Matic? Very good that he is versatile. Will be interesting to see if ETH will ever try Shaw as a LCB where he has done well before in 3 man backline. Dalot and Malacia on the wings.
 
FrankWhite said:
So how do you see us lining up with Martinez and Malacia on board and AWB gone? Do you see Martinez starting over Varane or Maguire? I just think a CB/RB hybrid is a bigger need hence why I'd prefer Timber. He can compete with Dalot and cover CB. whereas with Martinez, we'll still need to sign a right back. Not sure our budget can stretch that far giving that we are still looking to sign a forward like Antony.
Click to expand...

Yeah RB is still such a big issue so can totally understand why you would prefer Timber who is able to play there
 
According to dutch media we haven’t bid yet so Arsenal is the only team who has put formal offer for him. Maybe we do want him but consider him bit overpriced
 
Red the Bear said:
That's all fine and dandy but it won't be worth jackshit if he simply isn't up to the standand of pl, it would be basically throwing away 50 mil euros of cash out the window.

I like the kid but not let's get ahead of ourselves, question marks are all over him.
However I would be absolutely delighted if he becomes a successful dm for us, would immediately push our midfield into title challenging quality with the arrival of de jong.
Click to expand...
You can say the first paragraph about anyone coming directly from the Eredivisie; our faith has to be that those wanting him here believe in his ability. Arsenal are serious about the player, too so he's coming to the PL one way or another.

I guess the get ahead of ourselves bit is about Rice being compared. For me, there's no assurance Rice can perform in an offensive side who are not catering to the opposition, so the gamble is no greater relative to their respective prices. At least Martinez is coming from an extremely aggressive, open team, which is an equaliser in itself, for me.

I think you put him in midfield and he facilitates a hell of a lot.
 
Cathy Ferguson said:
I would assume that he will play CM since we have not replaced Matic? Very good that he is versatile. Will be interesting to see if ETH will ever try Shaw as a LCB where he has done well before in 3 man backline. Dalot and Malacia on the wings.
Click to expand...
I would think he goes straight in as a DM and facilitates De Jong. He'd also enable us to switch systems on the hop and play as a legitimate CB during that pseudo run of play.

You also have massive scope for flexibility between Shaw, Malacia and Martinez in switching between systems or really making a flank difficult to play through.
 
Fortitude said:
You can say the first paragraph about anyone coming directly from the Eredivisie; our faith has to be that those wanting him here believe in his ability. Arsenal are serious about the player, too so he's coming to the PL one way or another.

I guess the get ahead of ourselves bit is about Rice being compared. For me, there's no assurance Rice can perform in an offensive side who are not catering to the opposition, so the gamble is no greater relative to their respective prices. At least Martinez is coming from an extremely aggressive, open team, which is an equaliser in itself, for me.

I think you put him in midfield and he facilitates a hell of a lot.
Click to expand...
I'm not particularly a big fan of rice in fact I much rather we look for alternatives but he certainly brings a certain level of low ceiling performance that we would know is good enough for pl.
Now about Martinez I sure love the idea of him providing to be a capable dm and if he does prove to be so we immediately would have world class midfield with the addition of de jong and Erickson , I trust ten hag to make that call but can't help the feeling that he might end up as an expensive disaster.
 
Red the Bear said:
I'm not particularly a big fan of rice in fact I much rather we look for alternatives but he certainly brings a certain level of low ceiling performance that we would know is good enough for pl.
Now about Martinez I sure love the idea of him providing to be a capable dm and if he does prove to be so we immediately would have world class midfield with the addition of de jong and Erickson , I trust ten hag to make that call but can't help the feeling that he might end up as an expensive disaster.
Click to expand...
Argentine [rated] DM's are honed in the craft - that same nebulous role he plays is a traditional forte of the nation; I would be leaning towards someone like him for the role based off his skills and traits as well as the football he was raised in. I don't see a deluge of options I think are seamless fits - even Rice who so many rate - so I don't have as much doubt about someone of his profile coming in and doing a very good job whilst offering even more to the team with his versatility and tactical flexibility.
 
Fortitude said:
I would think he goes straight in as a DM and facilitates De Jong. He'd also enable us to switch systems on the hop and play as a legitimate CB during that pseudo run of play.

You also have massive scope for flexibility between Shaw, Malacia and Martinez in switching between systems or really making a flank difficult to play through.
Click to expand...
Ten Hag very publicly stated that Martinez wasn't good enough to play for Ajax at DM. So that would either mean that Martinez wouldn't play at DM for United or Ten Hag thinks that Ajax is better than United(which makes sense with all the rumours :lol: )
 
I wouldn’t be surprised if we go 352.

De Gea
Maguire - Varane - Martinez
Dalot - Frenkie - ???? - Malacia
Bruno
Ronaldo - Sancho​
 
Doesn't look very special at all. I don't see why in the world anyone would pay 50 million for him. He reminds me of a smaller Rojo.
 
Olecurls99 said:
Doesn't look very special at all. I don't see why in the world anyone would pay 50 million for him. He reminds me of a smaller Rojo.
Click to expand...
Laziest input I’ve seen
 
Olecurls99 said:
No, not lazy. Just slow and technically average. A little tough Argentinian. Not 50 million in any world
Click to expand...
Just just told me you've never seen him play without saying you've never seen him play.
 
Terranova said:
Just just told me you've never seen him play without saying you've never seen him play.
Click to expand...
I've seen him plenty thank you. He's a defender that likes the ball in the stands. And likes tackling on his arse.

He's not suited to what we want to be.

Again Varane is far superior.
 
Bwuk said:
I wouldn’t be surprised if we go 352.

De Gea
Maguire - Varane - Martinez
Dalot - Frenkie - ???? - Malacia
Bruno
Ronaldo - Sancho​
Click to expand...
Shaw at LCB and Martinez alongside DeJong could work.
 
Terranova said:
Ten Hag very publicly stated that Martinez wasn't good enough to play for Ajax at DM. So that would either mean that Martinez wouldn't play at DM for United or Ten Hag thinks that Ajax is better than United(which makes sense with all the rumours :lol: )
Click to expand...
Not to mention if he did play in midfield for us it would be on the left side as he’s left footed. The same area of the midfield Frenkie is at his best at. It would make zero sense to sign Martinez and play him in midfield.
 
Olecurls99 said:
I've seen him plenty thank you. He's a defender that likes the ball in the stands. And likes tackling on his arse.

He's not suited to what we want to be.

Again Varane is far superior.
Click to expand...

You definitely haven't watched him or you are completely blind
 
Olecurls99 said:
I've seen him plenty thank you. He's a defender that likes the ball in the stands. And likes tackling on his arse.

He's not suited to what we want to be.

Again Varane is far superior.
Click to expand...

Yeah Ten Hag is all about row Z, how can he not be suited to what we want to be when he's literally played and played very well for the manager in a previous club.
 
AdNani said:
Yeah Ten Hag is all about row Z, how can he not be suited to what we want to be when he's literally played and played very well for the manager in a previous club.
Click to expand...
He was useful in Holland for Ten Hag. If we want to spend 50 million on a player, I can think of 100 that would be more useful.

He's slow and because of that, he gets rid of the ball ASAP when under pressure. We've got better defenders than this fella.
 
Bwuk said:
I wouldn’t be surprised if we go 352.

De Gea
Maguire - Varane - Martinez
Dalot - Frenkie - ???? - Malacia
Bruno
Ronaldo - Sancho​
Click to expand...
I see this all the time. Has ten Hag ever played with a back three? Correct me if I’m wrong but I’m sure I read he always plays with a back four. Can’t see why he’d rip that up just to accommodate Martinez.
 
Having watched Ajax more then a couple of times this year I can certainly say that I am not thrilled for this potential signing. He is not better than our cb’s today, older than timber and the talk of him playing dm - he played it once last year and it was not successful so no.
 
Fortitude said:
I find it interesting that people automatically attribute these Ajax players to their established position on the pitch. I’d have thought the first thing to consider each time is what they offer and how they are generally expected to be capable in multiple positions, which in turn benefits them when they move on. The need we have for him is DM, at another club, he’d be going as a LB and another still, he’d be a CB.

Of course, all subject to change in the future, even at the club he joins - but the very first thing to utilise is the eclectic nature of these players to fill the particular hole in your squad, is it not?

For us, it’s exactly the crossover of positions we’re desperate to fill in with him being a DM as well as a CB who can fill in at LB or LCB. Tactically, it’s a dream signing who gives so much flexibility outside of simply using him in midfield, but I don’t think of the guy as CB above all else - he’s Rice for half or a third of the price!
Click to expand...

Martinez in his first year at Ajax played as a defensive midfielder and did really well. It was clear he was a good player.
Good tackler, agile, technically versed, positional awareness. It was really a surprise and unfair that Martinez was merely a bench player in his second year, because Ten Hag concluded that he was only suited as a defender. A quick look and you might not have noticed, but in 20/21 season he was often just a substitute or replacement for either Blind or Tagliafico.

And then this season we found a golden duo with Timber and Martinez, which drove Blind to left back and Tagliafico (Argentinian international) to the bench.
Martinez missed some games this year, but that was because of injury. Otherwise he was one of our best and most important players.
Ten Hag is not going to use him in midfield. Especially because he would also get in the way of De Jong.
You should forget about putting a pure defensive midfielder next to De Jong.
It would only limit him and Ten Hag knows that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Fortitude
Wezzaldo said:
I see this all the time. Has ten Hag ever played with a back three? Correct me if I’m wrong but I’m sure I read he always plays with a back four. Can’t see why he’d rip that up just to accommodate Martinez.
Click to expand...

At FC Utrecht Ten Hag played with a 4-4-2 diamond and a 5-3-2
 
Terranova said:
Ten Hag very publicly stated that Martinez wasn't good enough to play for Ajax at DM. So that would either mean that Martinez wouldn't play at DM for United or Ten Hag thinks that Ajax is better than United(which makes sense with all the rumours :lol: )
Click to expand...
Considering we don't even have a DM, that point is moot in relation to us, where he'd instantaneously be our best DM, by virtue of being our only DM. We're not in a position to barter about a role we've neglected so badly that he wouldn't even have competition for the position.

We need someone to facilitate what is supposed to be our marquee signing otherwise we make him redundant; even if it isn't Martinez, it better be someone like him.
 
DWelbz19 said:
Not to mention if he did play in midfield for us it would be on the left side as he’s left footed. The same area of the midfield Frenkie is at his best at. It would make zero sense to sign Martinez and play him in midfield.
Click to expand...
A DM lets De Jong do his thing in collection and moving the ball through midfield and sits whilst he goes walkabout. Your notion is too rigid, as if they are locked in position for the entirety of a play, which De Jong never is.
 
Wezzaldo said:
I see this all the time. Has ten Hag ever played with a back three? Correct me if I’m wrong but I’m sure I read he always plays with a back four. Can’t see why he’d rip that up just to accommodate Martinez.
Click to expand...

Ten Hag always played 3-5-2 at FC Utrecht. However during his time at Ajax he has always embraced this 4-2-3-1 system. Where the nr. 10 basically plays like an attacker.
The backs go high and stay along the side line. The 4 offensive players overcrowd the centre of the pitch high up. And the central defenders and the central midfielders make a 3+1 build-up play formation.
 
Aeryis said:
There are tall ball playing centrebacks too. I understand backing up our new manager but this is just ridiculous, Lisandro is too small for the position. I do not see this working out at all in the premier league. It's honestly frustrating that our transfer strategy is pretty much just signing his ex players, we're ignoring a plethora of wonderful and most likely better options because of his short sightedness.

Seriously, a centre back that's 1.75 tall? Come on we're going to get bullied.
Click to expand...
Yeah there are but some are not available in the transfer market and some are available with more expensive cost. Who doesn’t want ball playing centre back that is tall and good on the ball like VVD for example? But the point is if they are not available to suit to the given budget then the short one will still do because ten Hag doesn’t care about height and the cost is 40m.

I had some debate with other posters when we official signed ten Hag that I said of ten Hag number one priority demand on his defender is ball progression, he doesn’t care about the physicality. Looks like it is the case as 175cm is not a problem in ten Hag’s view.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.