Yep, what's sad is that people are seemingly incapable of discussing one player without trying to point score against the other
There's like zero relevance of Ronaldo to this situation in the first place.
Lionel Messi
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There's like zero relevance of Ronaldo to this situation in the first place.
Mistakes were made for sure! Lot of fans dont dislike the president system they have since in a sense it keeps the sport a bit more pure and strengthen the domestic and fan influence ties, registered fans even vote on things!, but the way they distro the money to lesser clubs is just counter productive and shamefully monopolistic for La Liga as a whole and has hampered their growth severely in a way that probably will punish them long term past the galactico circus years, their ratings might just fall off a cliff without it. But then again there is a normal boom bust cycle in everything and perhaps like they did in Calcio they will also slowly adapt and if the other leagues are getting more and more balanced would be great thing. At the end of the day they have had a majestic run and even helped to catalyst spanish football and lifted national huge wins in spain during those years so who can say they picked the wrong route?
Personally I would not blame messi for wanting to go since he earned it, but suck he would go to City, they would put out more cringe circus spin than is palatable for me around it all off pitch.
That's the question.
Did his contract say he could ask for his contract to be terminated at the end of the season, or within 2 weeks of the season ending?
Or did it specifically mention a date.
With the amount of money being involved, I dont think his "understanding" of the contract matters.. If the date mentioned is 10th June, its 10th June.. It doesnt matter if he understood it as being the end of the season.
If the contract had said anything about him being able to terminate it withing a certain number of days after the season ending, its a totally different matter.
Even if it said he can terminate it at the end of the season but before 10th June.. it would be enough of a grey area for him to have a case..But it the contract doesnt mention the season ending anywhere and its just a date, good luck.
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Yep! Honestly it screams of insecurity, ffs they’re 2 of the best players ever, just leave it at that.Yep, what's sad is that people are seemingly incapable of discussing one player without trying to point score against the other
There's like zero relevance of Ronaldo to this situation in the first place.
Messi is going to tear it up in the prem though, however do we think he might need to up his work rate? Does Agüero get dropped?
City will build a statue of him the moment he scores his first goal...
One can also argue that since Pep left Messi won CL only once in eight years and that was when he had Neymar by his side.
That's...wrong. Cristiano left on bad terms with Florentino, pissed off a lot of people with his comments post-final and left with fans being grateful for his service as a matter of course, but not with a good relationship with the board and even minorly pissed off his former teammates. Messi isn't leaving on bad terms with the fans either, or the club or his teammates, only with the current board
Honestly in both cases it would take something really significant to see them hated by those clubs. Simply too good and too important for too long
Don't believe that. Serie A teams at some point just started buying and playing old stars instead of young players with potential. La Liga is different. Even without Messi and Ronaldo, there's more than enough star potential in the league. Look at Madrid's squad, there are a few true gems in there. And they still have Hazard who's yet to stay fit for a sustained period of time for them. And then there's Atletico with Joao Felix. Even Barca, despite all there problems, have a few very promising talents in de Jong, Fati and Puig.
Don't think there are any dark ages for La Liga. More like a transitional spell where after 12 years being the top league in Europe (despite PL claims to the contrary), the balance of power is shifting to an extent and evening out in favour of the PL
Madrid will sign the likes of Mbappe soon and La Liga will be revitalised and Barcelona will also get their house in order eventually.
I know right. Its almost like a Man Utd supporters forum. Madness.
As far as I know no clubs tried to challenge it. It would make no sense to try, because it would take too long and even if didn't the player could refuse to play anyway or at best they'd have a severely disgruntled player on their hands, but who knows they might've won.
I agree. If the Messi deal actually happens, that could in fact "heal" Barca on the spot and undo the poor management decisions. With Bernardo Silva, Jesus and Garcia, they'd add three promising players of whom two would immediately become starters. Could play something like de Jong - Puig - Bernardo in midfield and Fati - Jesus - Griezmann up front and then build upon that foundation.
And nobody should underestimate Madrid at this point. That's a tremendously talented squad already and has the potential to win another few CLs a little bit down the road.
Absolutely - just enjoy them both and be privileged that we witnessed their entire careers first hand.
they’d need to shore up midfield if they’re going to start them both together - especially in big European matches. Though I can see Messi playing a false 9 role and aguero benched in those knockouts. Imo anyway.
Yep that’s true, it seems like a challenge to fit Agüero, Messi, and de bruyne With 2 wingers either side of them in the same 11.
But this is a downgrade and not by choice. This strategy is now just like the rest of us, buy young and hope to develop or pick up names that are winding down their contract.
Back in the day Salah would have moved to Spain by now. Constant stories used to unsettle Mane or KDB.
There arent because these elite players are out of reach and that is a huge sea change. We held on to Pogba despite his contract situation yet sold Ronaldo 1 year after signing an extension.
Unless theres generational luck as in 1 batch of young players all do become world class the classico having undoubtedly the best players in the world playing in it is very unlikely to happen for a very long time
Yeah. but that can happen at any time. A 20 year old with a 15 year contract could have his head turned and refuse to play and be disgruntled.
If it gets to that point then its a separate issue..
The question at the moment is, can messi legally terminate his contract and leave on a free.. If he can.. barca are screwed.. If not, he is too big an asset to let leave on a free because he wants to go.
They might come to some agreement where weeks after the transfer, Abu Dhabi gifts Barca a few training grounds and a 10 year 50m a friendly deal...
who knows.
Legally though, he is a Barca player.
Won't work. I'd probably go with this:
Sterling Aguero Messi
De Bruyne Gündogan
Rodri
Zinchenko Ake Laporte Walker/Cancelo
Ederson
Kind of reminiscent of Barca's 4-3-3 under Guardiola. Sterling in the Pedro role, Aguero in the Eto'o role, de Bruyne in Iniesta's, Gündogan in Xavi's, Rodri in Busquets, Walker/Cancelo in Alves', Zinchenko in Abidal's. In possession, you play a 3-4-3 with Messi drifting towards the center, Walker/Cancelo providing width, Zinchenko moving besides the two CBs.
Would Messi have enough work rate on the right? Or would they set it up so he stays forward?
Let's wait and see. I replied to a poster who claimed that La Liga would go down a similar path as Serie A and I don't see that at all with so many stellar prospects in the league. You on the other hand are talking about the indisputable position at the top of the food chain that Madrid and Barca used to occupy and that's a completely different topic. Currently, it looks like they've lost that spot but then again you also would've thought so when Cristiano joined Madrid. At that very moment in time, Manchester was ahead of Madrid in terms of competitiveness but he wanted to go there anyway. It's very, very hard to kill a brand. Madrid and Barca amplify your star status in a way no other club can. Mbappe for example would experience an incredible uplift in public attention if he joins Madrid and there's still no other club in the world that guarantees you this effect to the same extent.
I can see Messi starting on the right (Mahrez for backup), with Aguero up top and Sterling on the left (Torres as backup?) as their "normal" formation, with KdB, Rodri in midfield - but they'd have to get a Kante like player in there, IMO, and not Gundogan (his partnership with Rodri doesn't work and I doubt they will replace Rodri at this point). Maybe Bernardo could pull it off because he has immense work rate.
Against the top European sides/Liverpool etc though, they might struggle to accommodate both Aguero and Messi. They will get exposed on the turnover/counter attack IMO. Messi as a false 9, with a player like Mahrez/Bernardo/Foden out wide would compensate i think.
I think his work rate is underrated, currently. He always ran 8-9 km a match, even in his absolute prime but it is only mentioned/discussed when Barca is in a crisis. Nobody talks about it when Messi scores or dominates a big game. If it is an issue, it's been one in the past 12 years. What's also underrated is that Messi makes lots of intensive runs. A few years ago I read an article about his work rate and it's been mentioned there that he's making more sprints and intensive runs than any other player in Europe, despite (or maybe even because of) he only runs 8-9 km in total. Have searched for those statistics a few times but never found anything free so I can't tell how that has developed but I doubt it's gotten significantly worse. But yes, he'd stay forward, wandering around and bursting into life for occasional pressing moments then and now.
I think people underrate a lot what difference playing in a functioning team makes. If you've seen him play regularly in the last two seasons, all the talk about age catching up with him seems a little bit over the top. Barca hasn't been a cohesive unit for years now and that thing that he drops so deep into midfield nowadays isn't a narrative, it's really there for everybody to see. It's only natural that your output takes a hit if you are forced to play further away from goal. But Messi in a drilled squad where he can focus on the final third again.. that's still a frightening idea. If he really joins City, I believe many in here who only really follow Barca in the CL will be in awe how good he still is.
It can get to that point for a player with little leverage vs it will get to that point for a player with all the leverage.
- The 20 year old refuses to play: he'll lose his wages for the duration he refuses, which he's probably not too keen on, his career will take a big hit if he fails to get a transfer, and he faces a real possibility of getting sued. He has a lot to lose.
- Fraser refuses to play: He won't get paid, but he doesn't think he's entitled to a wage anyway because he sees the contract as expired, his career is not impacted because he already has a new club lined up and Bournemouth has no reason to sue. He has nothing to lose, no risk.
Messi is legally a Barca player as long as he has a contract with Barca. If he's right then he isn't legally a Barca player, if he's wrong then he is.
Interesting! Basically let’s just hope City don’t get him
Is La Liga an actual legal body? As in, seeing them say they side with Barcelona in this, do they have any sort of legal power to say that this clause isn't applicable?
Do lawyers ever say they're going to lose?
No
There is no comparison, Silva is always under the radar, rarely an icon or has a fan base, yes everyone appreciates but barely anything, like Carrick. Comparing him, Messi is 10
They will build by the time he arrives for medical.
Apparently FIFA beleive he has a strong case as well and would offer him a provisional transfer pass (no idea that existed until the last few days) if La Liga doesn't authorise him to go to City.
Many Reports in Germany that City really want to pay Lionel Messi 750M Gross over 5 Years ( 500Million Net due to taxes in Italy). He will get 100M Salary from City + 250M Signing on Fee when he moves to New York. The 250M Signing Fee will go into his Fathers Italy Bank Account so he avoids all taxes. Thats why Messi Dad was buying Appartments in Mailand this year.
The Seria A decline is different from La Liga situation for sure so not comparable. They had their high before TV money got crazy and had reliance on rich national patrons for growth (Berlusconi, De Laurentis, Agnelli family, Ferrero, Moratti etc) the global depressions and high tax pressure hit their patrons very hard in the wallet. Unwillingness to invest further private money and to some extent a cultural stubbornness to adapt to the modern game.
Translating to lost Europa spots, fading star quality, stigma of calciopoli, old arenas that monetized fans very poorly with low attendance outside top clubs and derbies. Declining youth programs hampering natural regrowth didn't help either.
The old players fetisch was probably a symptom on part due to having to keep what you have past expiration date since you couldn't replace and cultural
part with untouchable status to geriatric champs aligning poorly with the more physical faster modern game. Compared to say Real and Varca that very pragmatically offed their older icons. They were overall late to react and there are many lessons to be learned from Serie A.
In light of all above Spanish and EPL clubs monetized the game better, modernized arenas and tactics better and increased buying power and consistency, excerting stronger pull on star players. Overall La Liga clubs are in a much better shape today and keep producing great players. They will rebound faster most likely since the core foundations are healthy except the unbalanced TV money.
Serie A with Juve and now Inter and growing list of more clubs to follow have finally modernized, monetized and tapped into international money and seem to attract a lot of quality players again.
As for the Spanish big 3 and current players, remains to be seen how much star quality they will have on their own without the Goat's. Perhaps a EURO and World Cup or a UCL win will energize some of them to super star status.
Atletico I have no clue about but Real are no doubt in a much better place than Barca given they acted earlier and more pragmatic to the shift and have soften the blow a lot. Barca going the Galactico route seem to have lost some of their identity. Might be we see a more normalised La Liga with much less star appeal. But not the full collapse like Serie A for sure.
In the same way that La Liga seem to want to do whatever they can to make sure that Messi stays, you would imagine the PL are absolutely salivating at the thought of having Messi in the league.
The amount of promotional use they could get out of him is insane.
The amount of promotional use they could get out of him is insane.
Yes. But took your last line as sarcasm, I.e you thought Messi WAS being a mercenary for going to city (if he does). Therefore, good sir, I apologise.
No
Messi is such a snake and City too. Just tell City to pay the 700 Million which they can do and be done with it.
Ye because City definitely won't have more FFP problems if they do that. Even if Jeff Bezos owned a football club that would be a stupid amount to pay.
They will bribe their way out of those problems again. Oil money they got so much off so they can afford him.
The wages Messi got are insane anyway.
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