Lionel Messi

11101 said:
Maradona's personal demons detract from his overall career, but not how good he was as a player. He achieved against the odds in two World Cups and two Serie A seasons. He was also extremely good at Barcelona, he just didnt fit. For Messi to have done virtually nothing in major international competition is a big black mark, and he hasnt got another club on his CV for us to say 'Argentina is a one off' as he has performed there instead.


I think the 'what have your teams won' is worthwhile for these kinds of players, because they are so instrumental to what the team does. Barcelona has been a one man team at times as was Napoli and Argentina back then.


What it comes down to is that we have seen Messi in only two environments. In one he has been as good as anyone ever, in the other he failed. Is that enough to say hes the greatest ever? For me, it's not.
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But that's not close to being true. "Virtually nothing" - 4 Copa America finals and team of the tournament, a World Cup final, a player of the tournament, carrying Argentina to the World Cup in 2018 qualifying. Playing very well in the 2014 World Cup and destroyed it early on, I don't think he should have been Golden Ball, but anything other than top 5 best players in the tournament would be wrong. 70 goals for Argentina. How is that virtually nothing?

Messi getting Golden Ball for the World Cup is a bit like Pele's 1,000 goals record. People think it's wrong so discredit the whole achievement. But if you cut the bullshit friendlies, Pele may not have 1,000 goals but he does have 767 in 831 and 77 in 92 for Brazil and pretty damn impressive. Similarly, Messi may not have taken the World Cup by storm to win his Golden Ball in 2014. But the fact that he was even in contention shows that he still had a great tournament and I can only think of Neuer, Robben and Rodriguez really that may have deserved it more than him. So being among the top 5 players in a World Cup ain't bad. People seem to deny that part now for some strange reason and act like he flopped.
 
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Virtually nothing seems to just be “hasn’t won one”. The criticism is harsh
 
I don't get why people go with "He hasn't done anything at International level", football is a team game. Messi alone can't win any trophy, he is the biggest factor is any trophies they win. I don't know how Messi being GOAT or not depends on Higuain and Palacio taking their chances.

I didn't watch football in 50s or 80s, from the players I have watched, he is by far the best. Never seen a single player so good at almost everything.
 
KeanoMagicHat said:
But that's not close to being true. "Virtually nothing" - 4 Copa America finals and team of the tournament, a World Cup final, a player of the tournament, carrying Argentina to the World Cup in 2018 qualifying. Playing very well in the 2014 World Cup and destroyed it early on, I don't think he should have been Golden Ball, but anything other than top 5 best players in the tournament would be wrong. 70 goals for Argentina. How is that virtually nothing?

Messi getting Golden Ball for the World Cup is a bit like Pele's 1,000 goals record. People think it's wrong so discredit the whole achievement. But if you cut the bullshit friendlies, Pele may not have 1,000 goals but he does have 767 in 831 and 77 in 92 for Brazil and pretty damn impressive. Similarly, Messi may not have taken the World Cup by storm to win his Golden Ball in 2014. But the fact that he was even in contention shows that he still had a great tournament and I can only think of Neuer, Robben and Rodriguez really that may have deserved it more than him. So being among the top 5 players in a World Cup ain't bad. People seem to deny that part now for some strange reason and act like he flopped.
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:lol:
 
Here come the weirdos claiming he is a fraud. While he this far has created all 5 chances, his team concedes 4 goals. But its all his fault obviously.
 
He should jump ship while he can, think it's only going to get worse for Barca next season.
 
Shark said:
He should jump ship while he can, think it's only going to get worse for Barca next season.
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Yeah, it's definitely not a smart career move for him to stay at this Barca.
 
Best Barcelona player by a mile, he should leave as soon as possible.
 
He really needs to leave Barca. He’s being wasted and it looks like it’s going to take a long while till Barcalona are back in proper form. Plus for Barcelona’s sake, they’ll need to sell him to free up the wages and money with the tight financial spot there in.
 
While I’ve enjoyed how terrible Barca have been tonight, the prospect of Messi moving to City and dicking on the Premiership is a terrifying one.
 
Would him leaving create a genuine Fergie level crisis at Barca? Or would they be forced to try and be a team again without that reliance? Literally what's with their oddity of using 442 or similar in recent year over like 3 managers...

The 'Barca' way has been thrown out the window for Messidependence.
 
Alls he’s been doing this game Is walking around, such a lazy player!
 
Goat my arse :lol:

La Liga has always been a cricket like numbers for attackers.

Been nothing ever since Iniesta and Xavi retired because the lad isnt a winner.

Meh-ssi every CL.
 
Zen said:
Would him leaving create a genuine Fergie level crisis at Barca? Or would they be forced to try and be a team again without that reliance? Literally what's with their oddity of using 442 or similar in recent year over like 3 managers...

The 'Barca' way has been thrown out the window for Messidependence.
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They're very close to have that while he's still there and performing, I imagine it'll be worse once he leaves or retires.
 
I don't think he has anywhere to go. Obscene wages and he's not exactly young.

He looks defeated out there.
 
Bebestation said:
Goat my arse :lol:

La Liga has always been a cricket like numbers for attackers.

Been nothing ever since Iniesta and Xavi retired because the lad isnt a winner.

Meh-ssi every CL.
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Here we go again. The cafe judging teams/players/managers by every game :lol: This place is like twitter.
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
I don't think Pep would take the current version of Messi.
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Yes he would, everyone would. He's still the most talented and best player in the world. Let's not get ahead of ourselves. The second he leaves barca, they're going to drop off so far. They've stayed in the top 2 of la liga and consistently win trophies and get to the latter stages of the CL purely because of him. It'll be a collapse like when Sir Alex left United for them.
 
This guy has created 6 chances so far, yet its not enough for some people :confused: Probably needs to score 4 to be considered 'the goat'. Short term memory?
 
He has the highest overall goal contribution in the world. Ahead of everyone. Even on a Messi 'bad' season he's still statistically better than everyone else. It's silly that we expect Messi to singlehandedly make a dysfunctional team work versus a world class side? People play too much Playstation.

This is statistically Messi's second best season in terms of overall goal contributions. Think about it. With this side. People don't appreciate that.

Messi-xgxa-0405-to-1920-1.png
 
bosnian_red said:
Yes he would, everyone would. He's still the most talented and best player in the world. Let's not get ahead of ourselves. The second he leaves barca, they're going to drop off so far. They've stayed in the top 2 of la liga and consistently win trophies and get to the latter stages of the CL purely because of him.
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He contributes nothing in defensive phases.

It would hurt City's press.

He's the best player in the world, but you don't need the best player in the world to build a great functional team.
 
Idxomer said:
They're very close to have that while he's still there and performing, I imagine it'll be worse once he leaves or retires.
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It's not even close, we've become too accustomed to what they do achieve. Last year they were 2 games away from a treble and still won the league comfortably. Double 3 years ago with another comfort level League.

This year it's still 2xQF's and a massively comfortably 2nd in the league. The drop is there, but it's still no way near where they look like they should be at times.

All at times looking absurdly shit and imploding in the CL.
 
Hoof The Ball said:
He has the highest overall goal contribution in the world. Ahead of everyone. Even on a Messi 'bad' season he's still statistically better than everyone else. It's silly that we expect Messi to singlehandedly make a dysfunctional team work versus a world class side? People play too much Playstation.
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I don't think anyone here expected that tbf.

Their only hope this game was Messi having a 10/10(maybe even a 11/10 performance) game.
 
Messi in his prime wouldn't be able to sort this shit out. Barcelona have nothing great about them,
 
Barcelona are a shambles. We all know Messi is way past his physical peak but still a magician on the ball and the best passer in football. What's the point in surrounding him with other slow players who can't run.

Messi should be playing with attackers like Aubameyang or Sterling not someone like Suarez who has zero pace.

His teammates are making him look bad.
 
Zen said:
Would him leaving create a genuine Fergie level crisis at Barca? Or would they be forced to try and be a team again without that reliance? Literally what's with their oddity of using 442 or similar in recent year over like 3 managers...

The 'Barca' way has been thrown out the window for Messidependence.
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With their board and managerial appointments? They’ll drown. Messi has been masking the steaming pile of incompetence that Barcelona have been for the past 5 years or so, really. They always get dicked in the CL because they’re quite clearly not good enough for the very top outside of literally having the best player in the world
 
Hoof The Ball said:
He has the highest overall goal contribution in the world. Ahead of everyone. Even on a Messi 'bad' season he's still statistically better than everyone else. It's silly that we expect Messi to singlehandedly make a dysfunctional team work versus a world class side? People play too much Playstation.

This is statistically Messi's second best season in terms of overall goal contributions. Think about it. With this side. People don't appreciate that.

Messi-xgxa-0405-to-1920-1.png
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Lewandowski has more G and A this season.
 
Zen said:
Would him leaving create a genuine Fergie level crisis at Barca? Or would they be forced to try and be a team again without that reliance? Literally what's with their oddity of using 442 or similar in recent year over like 3 managers...

The 'Barca' way has been thrown out the window for Messidependence.
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Barca are fecked with or without him
 
Sadly he actually looked up for this game saw him pressing and putting in tackles but after the 4th it was over.
 
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