Lionel Messi
- Thread starter cesc's_mullet
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Copa America 1989, held in Brazil, Maracana Stadium, this is what maradona did, pay attention to the crowd, over 100.000 brazilians:
That's bollox innit, Beckham and Alonso put chances like that in. And I've never seen Messi have a hissy fit after he's missed a chance.
Is the opinion divided in Argentina as well or is Maradona untouchable there?
Certainly the best player I've ever seen, I don't feel qualified to talk about the GOAT and to be honest I don't get why people need to talk about it just appreciate the genius you are witnessing here and now.
i know, but those moments of brilliance made him unforgetable for most fans my age
how many argentinians do you think were applauded at the maracana stadium?
most of the people that i have talked about it, think that maradona is the best ever but messi is going to surpass him
I'm not disputing the possibility of someone being better than him. My post contested the idea that Messi wasn't fit to lace some other player's boots.
I just don't see how it's possible for any other player to have played the game to have been that good.
who is the GOAT?
Greatest Of All Time=G.O.A.T, I'm being really lazy as I've typed shitloads today.
Messi is the best ever IMHO. Just a bit better than Maradona.
The Goat.
i'm not saying you are wrong, what i'm saying is that maradona had some, IMO, incomparable brilliant moments
Yep, made it look ridiculously easy.
At 24 Maradona was just off to Napoli after being brutalised by Goikoetxea. The best was yet to come.
Stop the press!!!
Now he's on 17 carrier hattricks, what if he'd scored 6 tonight would he be on 18?
Now he's on 17 carrier hattricks, what if he'd scored 6 tonight would he be on 18?
The things Messi does would be difficult on Fifa nevermind in real life.
That side foot chip off the ground? How can you even weight that?
That side foot chip off the ground? How can you even weight that?
I don't think, I'm pretty sure. As hard as it is for me to admit it.
Messi will go down as one of the best ever no doubt. But he is one lucky player to have had the opportunity to play in one of the best teams ever assembled and to have been raised playing with a superbly talented core of players since he was a kid.
It's one thing to play for a great team by signing for them when you're 25 years old, but it's quite another to be born and raised playing for one team all your life. The chemistry and understanding you develop with other extremely talented players (Iniesta, Xavi etc) will be a massive advantage over other players who have not had the same opportunity to develop similar understanding.
And then of course is the style of play. When you've been playing the Barca style of football since you could kick a ball, your mastery of that style will reach a level that you would make a joke out of the best European teams at times. I think Barca could keep 70% possession against most teams even if half their players had blindfolds on - such is their understanding of each other and Barca's style of football.
This all becomes clear when Messi is outside his comfort zone and playing with Argentina. While still an amazing player, he doesn't have that same chemistry and telepathy with teammates at Argentina. And he hasn't been as successful there either. That remains his real challenge imo - to lead Argentina to a world cup victory by playing an instrumental role. Because let's face it, Barca would still be the best team in the world without Messi, so beating the shit out of other teams with Barca, while impressive, isn't that impressive - anymore. Spain are world cup and European champions, and that's mostly down to its Barca players who seem to do fine without Messi.
Odd pick, a lot of players could have done that and even score. He sure wasn't aiming for the crossbar: you lost that game 2-0
Messi technically is probably up there with Maradona and could surpass him, if he hasn't already.
The ENORMOUS difference between the two IMO is that Messi is what he is in a good -in fact, superb- team and doesn't perform at the same level otherwise.
It would be unfair and a disservice to say his teammates make him look good, but what Maradona could accomplish and Messi hasn't in my eyes is the opposite: he could make the players around him look like world beaters.
You slotted Maradona into a decent but unremarkable team and he would make them challenge on all fronts. Scholes has a similar effect in that he makes all those around him perform better, but I don't remember him make a really average player look good. Occasionally you will see someone special do that, but not continuously, whatever team he is thrown into.
And if all that raising of everyone's game wasn't enough, Maradona would also go and win the game all by himself if needed. Outstanding, and I mean that literally, in a way that the English language would need to find another word to define all other so-called outstanding people.
I saw him a few times live as a kid but couldn't quite appreciate that, I was all into the tricks and showponying. It was only many years later that I could see him live again (i.e. on a pitch, I saw him snorting cocaine live a few months before this), wasted, his career over, large as Neville Southall but shortened to 5ft4"...
It was a charity game to raise funds for Forlán's sister (he was about 16 then). There was one team with active/recently retired player and, to even it out, the celebs and long retired ones got Maradona in their team... And they looked better.
Of course it's a nothing game, but it was gobsmacking, the guy was static, probably covered no more ground than a goalkeeper usually does and looked knackered if he "sprinted" 5 yards, but you could still see his brilliance at work. Every single time he received the ball, up there in the stands, with full view of the pitch and everyone's positioning, you would see 2-3 options available... He very rarely went for any of them, he went for one that simply wasn't there until he had already executed the pass and you went "Ah!" like you had suddenly seen the light.
And bear in mind he was surrounded by a completely random assortment of famous and well past-it players, it's not that they knew each other from before or that they were making great runs. Early on some of the things he did didn't work because the other player didn't respond yet, but as time passed he had worked out all the other players around him and how much he could stretch them, so he factored that newfound knowledge into his decision-making and... voila! you actually had a pretty fluid attack orchestrated by Jabba the Hut.
I love watching Messi play, aesthetically he will probably surpass anyone who has ever kicked a ball, but I don't think he or anyone else will ever be able to reach the extraordinary heights of Maradona. You didn't have to build a team around him, you put him alongside ten players and he turned them into a good team.
Call me when he improves his penalty record.
Too damn good. Even if you strip all the stats and just use the naked eye he is by far the best around, so entertaining.
This guy is just unbelievable.
It's beyond ridiculous.
Has it sunk in yet that we are being priveledged to watching most possibly the two greatest players ever playing at the same time, hitting their peaks at the same time? Crazy.
Has it sunk in yet that we are being priveledged to watching most possibly the two greatest players ever playing at the same time, hitting their peaks at the same time? Crazy.
Odd pick, a lot of players could have done that and even score. He sure wasn't aiming for the crossbar: you lost that game 2-0
Messi technically is probably up there with Maradona and could surpass him, if he hasn't already.
The ENORMOUS difference between the two IMO is that Messi is what he is in a good -in fact, superb- team and doesn't perform at the same level otherwise.
It would be unfair and a disservice to say his teammates make him look good, but what Maradona could accomplish and Messi hasn't in my eyes is the opposite: he could make the players around him look like world beaters.
You slotted Maradona into a decent but unremarkable team and he would make them challenge on all fronts. Scholes has a similar effect in that he makes all those around him perform better, but I don't remember him make a really average player look good. Occasionally you will see someone special do that, but not continuously, whatever team he is thrown into.
And if all that raising of everyone's game wasn't enough, Maradona would also go and win the game all by himself if needed. Outstanding, and I mean that literally, in a way that the English language would need to find another word to define all other so-called outstanding people.
I saw him a few times live as a kid but couldn't quite appreciate that, I was all into the tricks and showponying. It was only many years later that I could see him live again (i.e. on a pitch, I saw him snorting cocaine live a few months before this), wasted, his career over, large as Neville Southall but shortened to 5ft4"...
It was a charity game to raise funds for Forlán's sister (he was about 16 then). There was one team with active/recently retired player and, to even it out, the celebs and long retired ones got Maradona in their team... And they looked better.
Of course it's a nothing game, but it was gobsmacking, the guy was static, probably covered no more ground than a goalkeeper usually does and looked knackered if he "sprinted" 5 yards, but you could still see his brilliance at work. Every single time he received the ball, up there in the stands, with full view of the pitch and everyone's positioning, you would see 2-3 options available... He very rarely went for any of them, he went for one that simply wasn't there until he had already executed the pass and you went "Ah!" like you had suddenly seen the light.
And bear in mind he was surrounded by a completely random assortment of famous and well past-it players, it's not that they knew each other from before or that they were making great runs. Early on some of the things he did didn't work because the other player didn't respond yet, but as time passed he had worked out all the other players around him and how much he could stretch them, so he factored that newfound knowledge into his decision-making and... voila! you actually had a pretty fluid attack orchestrated by Jabba the Hut.
I love watching Messi play, aesthetically he will probably surpass anyone who has ever kicked a ball, but I don't think he or anyone else will ever be able to reach the extraordinary heights of Maradona. You didn't have to build a team around him, you put him alongside ten players and he turned them into a good team.
excellent post, yes i agree in most of what you say, maradonas brilliance was there all the time to see,
while messi does what seems imposible, maradona did what was unthinkable, his brilliance was outstanding
but many people think he won the world cup alone, when in fact he was surrounded by very good players
don't want to argue this again, i have said it many times, but the team that played with him in 1986 was very good
what you say might be right, you just need to tell me wich player could be as good as messi but doesnt have the fortune to play alongside xavi and iniesta
i'll give you a hint, xavi and iniesta played for spain during the world cup and the european cup, and i didn't see a messi there
Now I believe extraterrestrials are living among us, because some of the stuff Messi does is just ridiculous. You look at him and think how can he possibly be that good at football?! Goals and assists galore and he makes it look so damn easy.
What sort of figures do you think Ronaldo could get playing with them?
Without them, he's not doing too bad...
That's the main thing which impresses me, he makes it look so easy its unreal. Like the second goal tonight, it looked such a simple goal but there's probably only a handfull of players who would have scored it that easily, his first touch and contol when he's moving is just perfect.
What about the 1990 team which he dragged along to the final? I only remember the goalkeeper who was fond of saving penalty kicks. But i still feel, Messi has something special about him.
i see, unlucky ronaldo who played in such shitty sides as real madrid and manchester united ...
how did he dragged? he did a genius pass to cannigia against brazil, but he was in one foot and couldnt do much
I'm just answering your question really, who would look as good alongside Xavi and Iniesta? That pairing is as unique as Messi and although it will never happen, it would be very interesting to swap Messi and Ronaldo and see who comes out on top then.
That's the single thing people will argue until they retire. Could he do it without them?
best player in the world now, ronaldo a close 2nd.
It was indeed. Nowhere near World Cup winning quality without him though, more like second round honourable exit, quarters at best.
But was more impressive at Italia 90, that was definitely not a good team, he carried that side to the final alongside Goyco and his penalty saves.
Some good contributions from Caniggia as well, but how easy is it when it's laid out on a plate like this?
Brazil battered you that day. Maradona got you through. He was like a magnet, Caniggia clearly running free and yet all the four defenders could think was "how the feck do we stop this guy?". He let them circle, come on, be ever so close to dispossessing him... and then was the EXACT right time to lay it off and give Caniggia all the time in the world.
that was his moment of brilliance during that world cup
then, he missed a penalty against yugoslavia, and we qualified to the semis because goycoechea saved two penalties
It's like, professional footballers are so much better than us, premier league footballers are so much better than them, the top footballers can do things the rest just can't, and Messi is still on a whole other level above them. It's the way he makes it look so effortless too.
i'm sure he can't
btw, along iniesta and xavi also played ibrahimovic -did really well- villa -pft- and yet, the one that scores ridiculous amount of goals is messi
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