To be fair he looked pretty bad at the beginning of the season last year as well. But yeah, he is disapointing so far.
Lionel Messi | PSG Watch
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Ashwin (@AR87) discuss the last 3 matches - a mixed bag with 1 win, 1 draw and 1 loss.
They discuss what signs of progress we are seeing under Amorim - should we expect more by now? And the spotlight falls on Dorgu, Onana and Hojlund.
The podcast finishes with previews of the 2 cup games Vs Fulham and Real Sociedad.
To be fair he looked pretty bad at the beginning of the season last year as well. But yeah, he is disapointing so far.
Messi is injured, subbed off at halftime
Agreed. There was 1 counter where he was right next to Sanches and he just stopped and let him run off.
I get Messi needs to retain his stamina for attacks but it's crazy how much of a free ride he gets. He really needs to be putting up big numbers to make up for it.
I didn't see much of him at Barca in the last year or 2, but he's certainly dropped a level. People talk like Ligue 1 is is a farmers league but he seems to be struggling way more here than he ever did in Spain.
tactical injury no doubt.
Probably not, he didn't train 2 days ago because of a small injury.
Would explain why he looked so lackluster today then. Hopefully anyway!
I can't see PSG games with my tv package. But Messi's transfer has been really dissapointing so far.
Even before today, he's looked poor.
He has declined a lot this season.
He has declined a lot this season.
Players like Messi don't decline in 2 months, there is several factors. As I previously said, he really started his season in december last year at Barcelona. He takes him more time to get back in shape now that he's aging, especially since he signed in another club and COPA took a toll.
It doesn't matter if it's Messi.
Sometimes the legs just can't do what the mind wants.
It can happen out of nowhere.
He was amazing against Uruguay 2 weeks ago, you're burrying far to quickly in my opinion. As I said, it's not the 1st time Messi has a slow start.
Could it be something to do with him playing outside of his Barca comfort zone too?
He just had a record breaking summer with Argentina
Who he's also played for since he was, what, 18?
With different coaches and players all the time. And a different system to Barca.
But one over which he casts an enormously long shadow and one that has, again, been built around him. All I'm saying is it's possible that he struggles outside of setups he's grown up being the centre of. No shame in that
Has he declined from his peak Barcelona days? Of course. But that isn't the issue. The issue is how he's being used by Poch, IMO.
Maybe he just loved Barca an Argentina and couldn’t give two shits about PSG?
Nah, after like 4 seasons of being in a team that was ultra reliant on him to even remotely compete on a domestic level.... he's loving the coasting he can now do to free medals and then he'll rock up in the CL/WC a bit more. Though I'm pretty certain this PSG team will hit a brick wall at some point in the CL given they'll have 3 forwards who well.... don't want to press. Although I'd guess by the time it matters, Poch will be able to drop one of them(Mbappe as he'll be clearly leaving by then) for ADM.
It wouldn't be anywhere near as bad as Sunday as United had more or less 4 forwards who don't really wanna press..... but I'd fancy Liverpool to handle them with relative ease, as well as Chelsea. Unless exceptional talent comes through and everything comes off.... and given you got 3 exceptionally talented players, there's potential for that.
It wouldn't be anywhere near as bad as Sunday as United had more or less 4 forwards who don't really wanna press..... but I'd fancy Liverpool to handle them with relative ease, as well as Chelsea. Unless exceptional talent comes through and everything comes off.... and given you got 3 exceptionally talented players, there's potential for that.
Nah, the reality is that Ligue 1 has always been the best league in Football and Messi is discovering it the hard way.
It’s possible, I feel like he’s a lot more focused with the NT than club level these days. But I also thing Poch is playing him way too far out near the touch line.
Those are some world class farmers there that's for sure
By the time it will matter, if they don't use Mbappe then they will have no chance of winning the CL.
I don't think Messi works well in teams with other selfish attacking players, he wants to be the top dog :-)
Played the false 9 role today and didn't look that great. Seems like I might be wrong in my initial assumption and Pochettino was right to test him as the inverted right winger. But, one game is just a small sample. Some fans think this is like playing fifa. It is much harder to strike a balance in the real world and it will be interesting to see which position Messi thrive in, if he does ever thrive at psg.
This. He is honestly struggling with the physicality. So many times I've seen him get brushed aside
This. He is honestly struggling with the physicality. So many times I've seen him get brushed aside
It's because he is hardly moving, not because he is weak in general, IMO. At his best he would push aside very strong defenenders, we all know he is usually very strong on his feet, but these days he is not even trying.
Btw, French league has always been good defensively though.
This. He is honestly struggling with the physicality. So many times I've seen him get brushed aside
Always thought the French league was a very physical league. Don’t think Messi has come to terms with it yet. But I’m sure he will
Injured
Posted this in the cesspit that is the Messi Vs. Ronaldo thread. @Daysleeper and the Barca boys might find this interesting.
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Ok. We should probably keep in mind that Appearances Made is an unusual stat to go on since not all appearances are equal. So, let's go with minutes played and then base them on that.
Minutes Played
Ronaldo - 88,469
Messi - 77,076
Messi has roughly 11,000 less career minutes than Cristiano. That's about 122 full 90 minute games more that Ronaldo has played than Messi. You have to keep this in mind when you look at stats. It's all relative to minutes they actually played that matters.
Career Goals
Ronaldo - 798
Messi - 755
Ronaldo has more goals, however, having played around 10,000 more minutes, Messi has the superior goals per game ratio. I'll further highlight who statistically comes out on top in each category in bold.
Goals Per Game
Ronaldo - 0.73
Messi - 0.80
Minutes Per Goal
Ronaldo - 110.9
Messi - 102.1
Career Assists
Ronaldo - 227
Messi - 315
Mins Per Goal/Assist
Ronaldo - 86.3
Messi - 72.0
Hattricks
Ronaldo - 58
Messi - 55
Free Kick Goals
Ronaldo - 56
Messi - 58
Outside the Box Goals (Non free-kick)
Ronaldo - 58
Messi - 78
Inside the Box
Ronaldo - 543
Messi - 518
Headers
Ronaldo - 139
Messi - 26
Expected Goals (XG)
Ronaldo - 214.41 (Scored 9 more goals than he should have.)
Messi - 192.37 (Scored 36.8 more goals than he should have.)
Shots Per Goal
Ronaldo - 6.41
Messi - 5.09
% of Shots on Target
Ronaldo - 41.3%
Messi - 48.0%
Successful Dribbles
Ronaldo - 1,615
Messi - 2,895
Key Passes
Ronaldo - 863
Messi - 1,207
Free Kick Conversion
Ronaldo - 5.9%
Messi - 9.2%
Man of the Match Awards
Ronaldo - 163
Messi - 291
Statistically, based on performances on a minute-per-minute basis, as well as absolute basis, Messi currently is ahead on 13 of 17 categories. Ronaldo is ahead on some statistics that are heavily skewed in his favour due to absolute minutes played over and above the minutes Messi has played. If Messi had played 11,000 more minutes then just about every statistic would be won by Messi with the exception of headers and possibly penalty conversion rate.
What about CL Groups and Knockout?
Ronaldo - 114 mins per goal. 88 mins per goal contribution.
Messi - 102 mins per goal. 80 mins per goal contribution.
CL Finals?
Ronaldo - 158 mins per goal. 126 mins per goal contribution.
Messi - 135 mins per goal. 135 mins per goal contribution.
Also, lest anyone forgets, Messi just won the Copa America with:
5 games.
4 goals.
5 assists.
4 MOTM awards.
That's before anyone who saw Barca last season, 8 points down at December, reminds you about how many game winning goals and assists Messi provided from December until end of season. There was no dispute about Messi scooping up Ballon D'or after the Copa America; not until the PSG move.
-------------------------------
Ok. We should probably keep in mind that Appearances Made is an unusual stat to go on since not all appearances are equal. So, let's go with minutes played and then base them on that.
Minutes Played
Ronaldo - 88,469
Messi - 77,076
Messi has roughly 11,000 less career minutes than Cristiano. That's about 122 full 90 minute games more that Ronaldo has played than Messi. You have to keep this in mind when you look at stats. It's all relative to minutes they actually played that matters.
Career Goals
Ronaldo - 798
Messi - 755
Ronaldo has more goals, however, having played around 10,000 more minutes, Messi has the superior goals per game ratio. I'll further highlight who statistically comes out on top in each category in bold.
Goals Per Game
Ronaldo - 0.73
Messi - 0.80
Minutes Per Goal
Ronaldo - 110.9
Messi - 102.1
Career Assists
Ronaldo - 227
Messi - 315
Mins Per Goal/Assist
Ronaldo - 86.3
Messi - 72.0
Hattricks
Ronaldo - 58
Messi - 55
Free Kick Goals
Ronaldo - 56
Messi - 58
Outside the Box Goals (Non free-kick)
Ronaldo - 58
Messi - 78
Inside the Box
Ronaldo - 543
Messi - 518
Headers
Ronaldo - 139
Messi - 26
Expected Goals (XG)
Ronaldo - 214.41 (Scored 9 more goals than he should have.)
Messi - 192.37 (Scored 36.8 more goals than he should have.)
Shots Per Goal
Ronaldo - 6.41
Messi - 5.09
% of Shots on Target
Ronaldo - 41.3%
Messi - 48.0%
Successful Dribbles
Ronaldo - 1,615
Messi - 2,895
Key Passes
Ronaldo - 863
Messi - 1,207
Free Kick Conversion
Ronaldo - 5.9%
Messi - 9.2%
Man of the Match Awards
Ronaldo - 163
Messi - 291
Statistically, based on performances on a minute-per-minute basis, as well as absolute basis, Messi currently is ahead on 13 of 17 categories. Ronaldo is ahead on some statistics that are heavily skewed in his favour due to absolute minutes played over and above the minutes Messi has played. If Messi had played 11,000 more minutes then just about every statistic would be won by Messi with the exception of headers and possibly penalty conversion rate.
What about CL Groups and Knockout?
Ronaldo - 114 mins per goal. 88 mins per goal contribution.
Messi - 102 mins per goal. 80 mins per goal contribution.
CL Finals?
Ronaldo - 158 mins per goal. 126 mins per goal contribution.
Messi - 135 mins per goal. 135 mins per goal contribution.
Also, lest anyone forgets, Messi just won the Copa America with:
5 games.
4 goals.
5 assists.
4 MOTM awards.
That's before anyone who saw Barca last season, 8 points down at December, reminds you about how many game winning goals and assists Messi provided from December until end of season. There was no dispute about Messi scooping up Ballon D'or after the Copa America; not until the PSG move.
What sort of utter loon brings that shit from a thread he calls a "cesspit" to try turning poor Leo's PSG thread into the same bollocks? "hey look, that thread is a fecking cesspit, let's bring that wank discussion in here"
Or did you just think that crap load of stats was just that important it was worth ruining another thread for?
Back on track, how long is Messi out for? Was hoping it was just a slight twinge when he had to come off but see he's missing again tonight?
Or did you just think that crap load of stats was just that important it was worth ruining another thread for?
Back on track, how long is Messi out for? Was hoping it was just a slight twinge when he had to come off but see he's missing again tonight?
What sort of utter loon brings that shit from a thread he calls a "cesspit" to try turning poor Leo's PSG thread into the same bollocks? "hey look, that thread is a fecking cesspit, let's bring that wank discussion in here"
Or did you just think that crap load of stats was just that important it was worth ruining another thread for?
Back on track, how long is Messi out for? Was hoping it was just a slight twinge when he had to come off but see he's missing again tonight?
Awesome find man! Some really interesting tidbits in there.
@Regulus Arcturus Black your comments crack me up haha
What sort of utter loon brings that shit from a thread he calls a "cesspit" to try turning poor Leo's PSG thread into the same bollocks? "hey look, that thread is a fecking cesspit, let's bring that wank discussion in here"
Or did you just think that crap load of stats was just that important it was worth ruining another thread for?
Back on track, how long is Messi out for? Was hoping it was just a slight twinge when he had to come off but see he's missing again tonight?
He’s not going to be playing with Argentina during the international break so maybe the hamstring is a little bit worse than first thought.
Frustrating that, been too stop start which makes it hard to get going at a new club even for the greatest of players.
Knee injury, I believe. Bruised bone. He missed a couple of games in September with it; returned and his knee hasn't felt right since.
Although not conclusive, stats under Koeman had Messi pressing more (and more effectively) than he'd done under both Setien and Valverde, as well as doing more defensive work, which might explain why his hamstring was ripe for injury in the Copa semi-finals. I think Pep even said that Messi had to be managed for the sake of maintaining his his injury frequency. French league is also quite tough and Poch isn't known for low-running players in his teams.
Where's the data from?
Opta Stats.
Please don’t derail this. Keep the Ronaldo v Messi never ending bickering to that thread.What sort of utter loon brings that shit from a thread he calls a "cesspit" to try turning poor Leo's PSG thread into the same bollocks? "hey look, that thread is a fecking cesspit, let's bring that wank discussion in here"
Or did you just think that crap load of stats was just that important it was worth ruining another thread for?
Back on track, how long is Messi out for? Was hoping it was just a slight twinge when he had to come off but see he's missing again tonight?
The move to PSG is not working out at the moment.