LGBTQ+ inclusion and Religion Debate in Football
- Thread starter SilentWitness
- Start date
Respect religions/individual faiths/everyone*
*As long as they agree with you.
*As long as they agree with you.
Absolutely baffled the club caved to Naz's demands.
Not a great look. Would have been better if it was only Mazraoui who refused to wear it, now the whole club looks bad and not just him.
This shouldn't be news. Respect people's religions and people's support for minorities. Neither should feel imposed to the public, this just creates hate.
Yup. If Maz didn't want to wear it, that's fine. I don't agree with him but it's his choice. The whole club caving because of it is a terrible look.
We caved to his demands?
This year, United were only planning a walk-out jacket but Morocco international Mazraoui, a £15m summer signing from Bayern Munich, told his team-mates he was not prepared to wear the outfit, citing his Muslim faith as the reason. The team then decided that no players would wear the tracksuit so that Mazraoui would not be the only one seen publicly to be refusing to wear it. The decision was taken a matter of hours before the game on Sunday.
Yeah and respecting someone's right to consider all gay people sinners is very inclusive.
They've obviously done it to try and protect Mazraoui, by trying to not have a situation where he's singled out by not wearing one. This kind of thing will always come out at a club this size though, so yeh i agree. Should have been left up to the choice of the individuals.
I seriously doubt he demanded nobody wear it, he probably said he wouldn't and the club decided it would look worse to have all but one wearing it vs. nobody.
Always impressive to see people stand up for their abhorrent views.
the whole squad catering to one man's "religious reasons" feels so wrong on so many levels. Sigh
It makes me so miserable. As a gay United fan this is grim as feck.
Relegate the club with Ipswich
Unfortunately due to the nature of football and the rampant homophobia that has engulfed it within the dressing room or within the stands, it means that there are no active gay or LGBT+ players in the PL currently. There are many active and visible players and managers of different faiths, nationalities and races. They're visibile in the game where the LGBT+ community sadly isn't. They don't have someone to look up to in football. We see players actively being given respect of their faith, particularly Muslim players who have had fasting breaks during Ramadan for example. This week is meant to be a time when the LGBT+ community does get some visibility on the pitch. It's such a small thing to do for a part of a society which still doesn't have the acceptance and equality it should have despite people arguing they now have that acceptance and equality.
There always has to be a downside doesn't there, knew Mazraoui was too good to be true
That point makes little sense for two reasons. The first one is that religions are fundamentally exclusionary and never told anyone that they were inclusive. And the second point is that all encompassing inclusivity is BS, no one actually adhere to it, everyone is only inclusive when it comes to things they themselves believe in.
Now in an ideal world whoever wanted to wear the jacket would have and whoever didn't want to wear the jacket wouldn't have but the reality is that everyone would have been hounded by the opposing side. Because both sides are largely made of bigots.
I don't respect his views and the club is completely in the wrong here. No type of view religious or otherwise has any place in the modern day when it's saying it's wrong to be gay/bisexual etc.
These views need rooting out not "accepting" or "respecting". Absolutely shocking from the club, the latest in a series of very poor decisions.
These views need rooting out not "accepting" or "respecting". Absolutely shocking from the club, the latest in a series of very poor decisions.
Disappointing to say the least.
Yep.
It simply comes down to this. If you religious reasons are fundamentally hateful, i.e rejecting someone purely because of who they are, then I cannot respect that.
I respect anyone's desire to practice their religion in general, that faith is important to them and the community aspect can be very wholesome, but if it reaches a point where it negatively affects a group of people through no fault of their own then how can that be right? Surely the overarching message of all these religions is tolerance and understanding? Would you not question your religion if it told you these people who do things that do not affect you in any way, shape or form are bad?
It's never gonna change and my overall view on religion personally is that it's bonkers to base your worldview on something written by someone who would be astounded by an iPad.
I respect these groups fighting for their slice, but the world is not anybody's oyster.
What?
Religions have conflicting views on several matters, what else is new.
Personally I don't think it matters a great deal when a couple of individuals refuse to wear it on religious grounds even though I find their decision to ultimately be ill-founded.
The question I think we should be asking at this stage is whether are the club/premier league doing enough to respect gay people and stomp out homophobia in the game, which I think at this point is more positive than negative? We've certainly made a lot of good progress over the years and I expect it to continue even despite a couple of players not wanting to show their support. I support more campaigns and more players coming out with full backing from their clubs.
At some point, the debate becomes about the religion itself which appears counter to the movement to respect gay people but also threatens to disrespect their religious views in the first place. It sucks but I don't have a solution.
The question I think we should be asking at this stage is whether are the club/premier league doing enough to respect gay people and stomp out homophobia in the game, which I think at this point is more positive than negative? We've certainly made a lot of good progress over the years and I expect it to continue even despite a couple of players not wanting to show their support. I support more campaigns and more players coming out with full backing from their clubs.
At some point, the debate becomes about the religion itself which appears counter to the movement to respect gay people but also threatens to disrespect their religious views in the first place. It sucks but I don't have a solution.
Being bi I was incredibly happy to see him leave. I can feel your disappointment. It’s disheartening.
No thanks.
The first part is a deeper debate but I agree. There's no doubt religion has been cause for incredible amounts of conflict from the beginning of time basically. I get that it's exclusive by it's nature but doesn't mean I should agree with that.
Secondly I'm aware it's basically impossible, but it's at least something to strive towards even if it'll never be perfect. Maybe I'm just an optimist.
It's also bollocks because many people who are Christian/Muslim/whatever have evolved with society. I think that's a fundamental point that needs to be remembered where religion is concerned. That society has evolved far beyond what was originally conceptualised.
If you don't want to contribute anything you can not post in the thread.
gay "rights" wouldn't mean shit if the likes of him weren't free to refuse participating at the same time. this is the world I want to live in.
I have much more respect for him and that Ipswich player than for millions of Hendersons and Kanes.
and obviously, let's hope United is relegated just like Ipswich
I have much more respect for him and that Ipswich player than for millions of Hendersons and Kanes.
and obviously, let's hope United is relegated just like Ipswich
terrible look for the club, embarrassing decision.
how fecking thick you have to be to hide behind "religious reasons" but then cherry pick the religious rules you feel like obeying and those you don't. Like that guy from Ipswich, who seemingly feels he's an authority enough to say "look as a Muslim I shouldn't support gays so I won't do it, but also a Muslim I shouldn't support gambling yet I have no issue advertising it". bloody hypocrites.
Yep, the more vague about things, the more manipulative you can be in more circumstances.
Yeah I've seen lots of examples of LGBT inclusive churches.
Agree with this. Don’t make him wear one, but don’t call the whole thing off.
Surely it comes down to how you live your daily life and practice your faith? There's a difference between being a part of a religion and living your own life based on it vs actively spreading hate towards other people. I don't have a problem with Mazraoui not wanting to wear something, but i'd have a problem with Mazraoui actively stating that others are wrong. You can be a part of a religion and still show respect
Are you in the right page?
you're obviously "free to refuse participating" but the club should be free to criticise/demote their captain if he alienates a large part of the fanbase.
We knew what we were getting into with Mazraoui as this isn't the first time he has done something like this.
If a captain doesn't want to wear the armband then fine, put it on a player who does. If Maz doesn't want to wear the clothing then fine, let him not wear it. Then let him get the flack, don't let him hide behind the club and players. If Maz or Guahi are against the lgbtq+ community then let them be so with their chest out and proud. I'd rather bigots be identified rather than let them hide.
So do all Muslims have to be against gay people? for example. Or is it more of a personal choice how they interpret their religion