Lewis Hall - Newcastle Player | Bye Bye Boehly

SilentWitness said:
:lol: Love how in pretty much every game in that video he puts a dangerous cross in but BlueLion has never seen him make one cross at all.
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TheMagicFoolBus said:
Yeah it's an absurd take. If you're worried about him long-term, the concern is his defensive awareness and ability to defend 1v1. His attacking upside from left back is through the roof.
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Yeah, understand concerns about 1v1 defending, although he's pretty solid there, and positional awareness, as he's still kinda learning the role but to say he's never even attempted a cross was bizarre.
 
terraloo said:
A year’s extension was triggered but from what I believe the contract to 2030 had been agreed and once signed he would go to Palace.

There seems to be a bit of bad blood at the moment between Chelsea and Palace hence why we backed off approaching their player and the decision to send him to Palace was on hold . Newcastle who likewise wanted Hall On loan we’re bought back into play.

When he returned from loan the intention was to sell Mattensen but Poch it seems really rates him so the dilemma was how could you add yet another left sided player.

Hall has made 8 PL starts plying way less than 900 minutes in total. He does look a prospect but has the taste of first team so ain’t going back to the U21.

It simply is down to 4 players for 2 squad’s positions ,and yes I know hall is under 21,

I still expect Cucerella to leave
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I don't think Poch has any interest in using Maatsen at LB. He played 0 minutes there in preseason and he replaced Sterling (I think?) vs Liverpool the other day. I don't think he's even part of the LB consideration. It's just Hall vs Cucurella vs Chilwell.

He wasn't being asked to go back to U21. There was a loan move to Palace lined up. Granted it could be that the relationship soured because of the Olise stuff but even if that's the case, you don't then immediately pivot to selling him to a direct rival.
 
Dancfc said:
Same argument you're making about Colwill was also used about Christensen.

Furthermore you seem to be holding us to the standards of only undisputed starters (which Christensen was aswell by the end) count as being brought through, I take it by the same token you don't count the likes of Brown and Welbeck as being brought through at United?
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Wes Brown played 200+ games for Man United...

Rather than being a dick measuring contest of who does what my point is simply that your talent identification is there. The coaching appears to be there judging by the fact these players do go on to have good careers. I would argue both of these things appear to be better than what Man United have going on at the moment. So it's not that we're fantastic. It's an overall frustration with the lip service big clubs pay to this stuff and to me it makes me feel more detached from the game as everything is bought in ready made.

Ultimately it doesn't really amount to all that much for the first team, and yes that's why James and Mount were the players I referenced because they indisputably have been invested in and made an impact and that should be the standard academies are aiming at. I personally think that even the ones floating around the squad currently will be gone within the next couple of seasons as you continue to spend absurd sums. I don't think you give them the same opportunities because it's easier to buy than to accept the mistakes of young players and there's always an excuse that they weren't good enough or it's hard to make it. Well, you were attempting to buy a lad back that was your youth player to begin with and you also spent a season where you couldn't hit a barn door after selling a consistent goalscorer that came through your system to Roma!
 
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terraloo said:
In the starting 11 for us last Sunday were : Colwill, James & Gallagher . Ironically there were as many Chelsea academy products in Utd’s starting 11 as there were Utd products!
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Garnacho & Rashford - Mount. Am I missing something?
 
Abraxas said:
Wes Brown played 200+ games for Man United...

Rather than being a dick measuring contest of who does what my point is simply that your talent identification is there. The coaching appears to be there judging by the fact these players do go on to have good careers. I would argue both of these things appear to be better than what Man United have going on at the moment. So it's not that we're fantastic. It's an overall frustration with the lip service big clubs pay to this stuff and to me it makes me feel more detached from the game as everything is bought in ready made.

Ultimately it doesn't really amount to all that much for the first team, and yes that's why James and Mount were the players I referenced because they indisputably have been invested in and made an impact and that should be the standard academies are aiming at. I personally think that even the ones floating around the squad currently will be gone within the next couple of seasons as you continue to spend absurd sums. I don't think you give them the same opportunities because it's easier to buy than to accept the mistakes of young players and there's always an excuse that they weren't good enough or it's hard to make it. Well, you were attempting to buy a lad back that was your youth player to begin with and you also spent a season where you couldn't hit a barn door after selling a consistent goalscorer that came through your system to Roma!
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The season we "couldn't hit a barn door" we produced our 3rd highest ever PL scoring season.

I apologise if it came across as a "dick waving" contest as that's not how I meant it too but for me there's a lot more to coming through than being the big players for 20 years. And even if we did just have Mount and James in the last few years, that's still a pretty good ratio for top club standards anyway.

Even if we go back 10 years, they'll be Ryan Bertrand who was a full time member of the squad for 3 years and helped win us the FA Cup, UCL and Europa, is that coming through? For me absolutely yes, even if he eventually didn't cut it as a long term player, he made big contributions for us.

Some do eventually get sold, but they do after getting multiple chances in the first team. Even the ones who do get sold before that end up with a top flight career in so small part thanks to how well we've looked after and coached them.

Yes there was a period in the early Roman we had a really bad record when it came to youth players, but that's firmly a thing of the past now.
 
bringbackbebe said:
Garnacho & Rashford - Mount. Am I missing something?
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It be a stretch to class a player you paid £400+k for and didn’t join Utd till he was over 16 as a true academy product just as we were always told that Christensen wasn’t one of our academy products and he joined us aged 15
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IrishRedDevil said:
Would be a good Robertson replacement.
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Not unless Trent becomes the outside CB for Hall to be the one who inverts.

Colwill would have been a perfect fit for their current system, thank god we got him signed up.
 
Might have been discussed on earlier pages but I'm a bit surprised Newcastle is his preferred destination from a sporting point of view as they have about the same amount of established midfielders as we do, however they of course have more games this season due to playing in Europe which should open up some playing time. Unless they plan to play him at LB which would be a bit of a gamble since he has played midfield for most (all?) of his youth career and only been deployed at LB last season on a seemingly temporary basis due to LB injury problems at Chelsea. I do think there is a quality player in there and that he will have a good career wherever he plays, but if he wants to primarily be a midfielder I think it would be wiser to go on loan (or get a transfer) to a team where he will get more minutes in the middle of the pitch.

Wish he stayed though.
 
autopilot said:
Might have been discussed on earlier pages but I'm a bit surprised Newcastle is his preferred destination from a sporting point of view as they have about the same amount of established midfielders as we do, however they of course have more games this season due to playing in Europe which should open up some playing time. Unless they plan to play him at LB which would be a bit of a gamble since he has played midfield for most (all?) of his youth career and only been deployed at LB last season on a seemingly temporary basis due to LB injury problems at Chelsea. I do think there is a quality player in there and that he will have a good career wherever he plays, but if he wants to primarily be a midfielder I think it would be wiser to go on loan (or get a transfer) to a team where he will get more minutes in the middle of the pitch.

Wish he stayed though.
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He has the opportunity to play in the CL for the club he has supported since a boy, during the club's biggest upwards trajectory in his entire life. It's a no brainer.
 
My contact with the family said he wants to move to a CL club, thinks Chelsea is a ‘bit of a mess’.
 
Andy 1892 said:
He has the opportunity to play in the CL for the club he has supported since a boy, during the club's biggest upwards trajectory in his entire life. It's a no brainer.
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It’s never a no brainer to leave the club you’ve been at since you were 8.
 
Torino said:
My contact with the family said he wants to move to a CL club, thinks Chelsea is a ‘bit of a mess’.
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The Jamaican delegation really have their fingers in a lot of pies these days.
 
Why are we doing them a favour? Either pay up or do one. Why are we giving them a favourable deal now while they try to beat us for top 4?

 
WeePat said:
Why are we doing them a favour? Either pay up or do one. Why are we giving them a favourable deal now while they try to beat us for top 4?

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I think it's probably more beneficial for FFP that we get some of the sales to be recognised in the next accounting period.
 
P-Ro said:
I think it's probably more beneficial for FFP that we get some of the sales to be recognised in the next accounting period.
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Fair enough. Makes sense I guess.
 
Newcastle have done some really good business since their takeover. They’re building a really good squad.
 
Why are there so many Chelsea fans I this forum?!? Actually after just checking, realised they don’t have a big forum for themselves, really weird.
 
Andy 1892 said:
Well clearly it is, as by all accounts he is the one that has pushed for the move.
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Still isn’t a no brainer. And I don’t think it’s him that wanted to leave. With all due respect, a kid who grew up at Chelsea will always chose Chelsea over Newcastle unless the club is pushing him out or the club have created a situation that forced him to leave.
 
Solius said:
£28m for someone who's played 9 PL games.
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Apparently it will be 35 unless he just … doesn’t play. The add ons are apparently easily achievable, like a very basic number of minutes played within 3 seasons, etc
 
Slevs said:
I love the terminology used sometimes.

"Chelsea’s change of strategy came after the club found itself paying £115 million for Moises Caicedo from Brighton – breaking its own British record transfer fee "

Makes it sound like the club JUST found out that they're paying that much for Caicedo. Must have been a major shock for whoever discovered it at first.
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I hate it when you're just going about your day and then you just find yourself paying someone £115m for a player.
 
WeePat said:
I don't think Poch has any interest in using Maatsen at LB. He played 0 minutes there in preseason and he replaced Sterling (I think?) vs Liverpool the other day. I don't think he's even part of the LB consideration. It's just Hall vs Cucurella vs Chilwell.

He wasn't being asked to go back to U21. There was a loan move to Palace lined up. Granted it could be that the relationship soured because of the Olise stuff but even if that's the case, you don't then immediately pivot to selling him to a direct rival.
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I actually don’t think that’s true. I think Poch is very, VERY smart, and HE knew if HE just had him slotted into the LB cue there was no way he wouldn’t be sold.

He really wants to keep him, and the way to do that is to make sure you prove he can fit in at any of the front 3 positions, including RW.

Think about our LB position: right now, with Chilwell, it’s one of the more offensively important positions on our team. Maatsen would be a closer profile to Chilwell than either Cucurella or Hall.
 

The generally accepted definition of an academy product is one who has played for your academy before your first team.

If Christensen first played for your academy before going onto your first team, then yes he is an academy product.
 
Abraxas said:
Wes Brown played 200+ games for Man United...

Rather than being a dick measuring contest of who does what my point is simply that your talent identification is there. The coaching appears to be there judging by the fact these players do go on to have good careers. I would argue both of these things appear to be better than what Man United have going on at the moment. So it's not that we're fantastic. It's an overall frustration with the lip service big clubs pay to this stuff and to me it makes me feel more detached from the game as everything is bought in ready made.

Ultimately it doesn't really amount to all that much for the first team, and yes that's why James and Mount were the players I referenced because they indisputably have been invested in and made an impact and that should be the standard academies are aiming at. I personally think that even the ones floating around the squad currently will be gone within the next couple of seasons as you continue to spend absurd sums. I don't think you give them the same opportunities because it's easier to buy than to accept the mistakes of young players and there's always an excuse that they weren't good enough or it's hard to make it. Well, you were attempting to buy a lad back that was your youth player to begin with and you also spent a season where you couldn't hit a barn door after selling a consistent goalscorer that came through your system to Roma!
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Tammy promised so much but at PL level wasn’t the player we all with links with Chelsea hoped for
mav_9me said:
The generally accepted definition of an academy product is one who has played for your academy before your first team.

If Christensen first played for your academy before going onto your first team, then yes he is an academy product.
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Not sure that there is any general definition but I can see that logic however by that definition I think we can be proud that Lukaku graduated from our academy having played in a development game following his transfer from Anderlecht prior to making his debut a couple of weeks later.

edit
And the other 34 Academy products that were bought through in the seasons 2003/4- 2016/17 ( I got fed up of looking at the old records at that point !)
 
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WeePat said:
Still isn’t a no brainer. And I don’t think it’s him that wanted to leave. With all due respect, a kid who grew up at Chelsea will always chose Chelsea over Newcastle unless the club is pushing him out or the club have created a situation that forced him to leave.
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I don't understand your logic at all there to be honest, he's a Newcastle fan. All of his family are. The academy you played in has little bearing if the club you've supported all your life come along offering you champions league football and a good chance of playing in the starting 11. Pretty much any Newcastle fan would drag their balls through broken glass to play for the club.

Ornstein inferred that Hall pretty much orchestrated the move once Newcastle were interested. I'm inclined to believe him since he's usually a top source, and the logic checks out.
 
Torino said:
My contact with the family said he wants to move to a CL club, thinks Chelsea is a ‘bit of a mess’.
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Sounds total rubbish he agreed to sign a 6 year contract and almost certainly if Chelsea had said no , even with his current deal.
 
Andy 1892 said:
I don't understand your logic at all there to be honest, he's a Newcastle fan. All of his family are. The academy you played in has little bearing if the club you've supported all your life come along offering you champions league football and a good chance of playing in the starting 11. Pretty much any Newcastle fan would drag their balls through broken glass to play for the club.

Ornstein inferred that Hall pretty much orchestrated the move once Newcastle were interested. I'm inclined to believe him since he's usually a top source, and the logic checks out.
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Newcastle has been interested all summer. There was a supposed 17M bid rejected months ago. The interest isn't new at all. Hall signed a new deal (according to Romano) and was ready to go to Palace on loan knowing of Newcastle's pursuit, so forgive me if I don't buy what you're selling here about Hall dragging his balls through broken glass to leave the club he's been at since 8.

Lots of players are fans of other clubs. Colwill is a supposed Liverpool fan but ignored their interest and signed a new deal. Luke Shaw is a Chelsea fan (I think?) but he rejected Chelsea to sign for United. I think Hall is leaving because Chelsea have decided to sacrifice him, which is awful in itself and I hate it but that's Chelsea at the moment.
 
Moving from a bottom half team to a champions league club is no easy task. The boy has talent but is the step from Chelsea to Newcastle too big?
 
Remember the geese said:
No idea why Chelsea let him go.
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No path to get into the team. Quite simple, really.

We’ve got 3 LB’s currently (one of which is just 21 and was perhaps Burnley’s best player during their dominant Championship run last season) and we’re completely stacked in midfield which is Hall’s preferred position reportedly.
 
Orc said:
No path to get into the team. Quite simple, really.

We’ve got 3 LB’s currently (one of which is just 21 and was perhaps Burnley’s best player during their dominant Championship run last season) and we’re completely stacked in midfield which is Hall’s preferred position reportedly.
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Ah, so it was Maatsen vs Hall? Will have to see if you've made the right call there. Hall looks talented to me. Didn't realise that Hall's preferred position was midfield.
 
prateik said:
The Saudi connection...
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Sounds like it’s more self preservation move, to secure a £35M sale for next summer. It’s been said Chelsea need to keep selling players each summer to balance the books unless we get back in the CL and we grow our commercial revenue.
 
Obligations to buy are such BS :lol:

Two clubs hindered by FFP playing the system.
 
Dan_F said:
Obligations to buy are such BS :lol:

Two clubs hindered by FFP playing the system.
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What this suggests to me is that both clubs are acutely aware of FFP and are planning accordingly. .

It would obviously be beneficial for Newcastle to delay the purchase and for us include the transfer in the next trading year.

This is far from the first transfer so structured the problem emerges if their is a injury
 
WeePat said:
Why are we doing them a favour? Either pay up or do one. Why are we giving them a favourable deal now while they try to beat us for top 4?

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WeePat said:
Sounds like it’s more self preservation move, to secure a £35M sale for next summer. It’s been said Chelsea need to keep selling players each summer to balance the books unless we get back in the CL and we grow our commercial revenue.
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terraloo said:
What this suggests to me is that both clubs are acutely aware of FFP and are planning accordingly. .

It would obviously be beneficial for Newcastle to delay the purchase and for us include the transfer in the next trading year.

This is far from the first transfer so structured the problem emerges if their is a injury
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IIRC, loan with obligation to buy is considered as straight buy for FFP, at least from buying point of view.

Loan with option to buy is different.
 
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