Levi Colwill | The next Rio Ferdinand?

Amadaeus said:
Counter attacking system in such a defensive shape often rely less on ball retention capabilities, but more so on pace up top with the ability to put balls behind the opponent defense.

To reduce your fears, Nkunku can also play the lf or rf role, with Jackson or Borja uptop If ball retention is a concern. The problem is Nkunku was recruited pre Pochettino appointment. I m sure ideally, Pochettino would have use that fund to get a true no 9, rather than a false 9, but that was the mess their recruitment put their new coach under. Now Pochettino has to build his attack around a second striker that is resemblance of deli Ali, rather than an out and out no 9. But, who knows i may be underestimating Jackson and he is more of a key piece to their attack over Nkunku and their other high profile attacker in that jackson name always has to be on the team sheet similiar to Nkunku(disclaimer again: I have Jackson starting as the number 9 in the go to 4 2 3 1 system with Nkunku behind, as I mentioned again, this formation is another system to the main one I would recommend).

You do not have it right because as I stated Nkunku can play lf or rf in such a system with Jackson or Borja uptop. In addition, when switching approach to a counter attacking system when in a defensive posture pace is much more important than ball retention. To simplify, when in possession poch often deploys a good possession based system and the midfield illustrated are in the top 90 percentile when it comes to keeping possession and also in winning back possession. This covers the aspect of having a front three that takes more risk in possession. When the opponent has the ball, transitioning to a defensive shape and switching gameplan to a more counter attacking approach is something poch is familiar with and has done excellently well at psg especially with mbappe pace out wide, which he can use mudryk in a similiar manner. I implore you to watch the psg versus real Madrid game where Pochettino used such tactics where in certain parts of the game, they would dominate possession and when real Madrid had the ball, they were deadly in the counter. Such a tactics can be used with this system above.
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You literally said 2 posts ago that this nonsensical system was based on Poch's focus on ball retention and possession, but now you're saying it's a counter attacking system? So it's black but also white then?

Why would Poch have issues with Nkunku as more or less a perfect second striker / 10 given he likes to use a 4-2-3-1? Or are you so delusional you think that Poch wants to use this absurd 5-2-3 / 2-2-1-4-1 monstrosity that you've proposed hypothetically and that it's bad for Chelsea they aren't buying accordingly? I'd genuinely struggle to think of an attacking player at the highest level who fits better into what Poch wants to do.

All of your last paragraph is utter waffle. The left winger who is very high up the pitch is perhaps the least impactful player when it comes to transition defense - citing the usage of Mbappe as somehow being a defense of what you are positing is nonsensical. The whole issue of transition defense when it comes to your idea has nothing to do with the left winger, it has to do with you playing a box of two CBs and two DMs (one of whom is actually a CB) - it's now extremely easy for the opposition to launch a ball down the channel and even with limited accuracy there is a 1v1 situation created against a player who is not typically comfortable in 1v1s, especially in wide areas. The reason why a 2-3 or 3-2 base in possession is popular is that the 5 vertical channels are all covered - it's a lot more difficult for the opposition to create isolations in space against a defensive base with some actual width.

But let's just summarise your idea - upon recovering the ball, Chelsea will not actually be able to attack well in transition because the RWB, LWB, and central CB will all be trying to move forwards instead of establishing a structure for ball retention, which would be fine if the ball could be booted long for a bruising CF to try to hold onto but that won't be the case. Should Chelsea somehow establish a toehold, they will then establish a structure that more or less looks like a lollipop, giving the opposing team colossal margins of error to just smash the ball down either flank to allow for a 1v1 opportunity. This is all for the benefit of creating width in the final third for James and Chilwell (also both notoriously durable players who 100% should be counted on to sprint 12 km per match up and down the pitch) to cross the ball into Nkunku, Mudryk, and (apparently) Rayan Cherki. And the crux of the problem is that Chelsea haven't bought the right types of players to make this all work?
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
You literally said 2 posts ago that this nonsensical system was based on Poch's focus on ball retention and possession, but now you're saying it's a counter attacking system? So it's black but also white then?

Why would Poch have issues with Nkunku as more or less a perfect second striker / 10 given he likes to use a 4-2-3-1? Or are you so delusional you think that Poch wants to use this absurd 5-2-3 / 2-2-1-4-1 monstrosity that you've proposed hypothetically and that it's bad for Chelsea they aren't buying accordingly? I'd genuinely struggle to think of an attacking player at the highest level who fits better into what Poch wants to do.

All of your last paragraph is utter waffle. The left winger who is very high up the pitch is perhaps the least impactful player when it comes to transition defense - citing the usage of Mbappe as somehow being a defense of what you are positing is nonsensical. The whole issue of transition defense when it comes to your idea has nothing to do with the left winger, it has to do with you playing a box of two CBs and two DMs (one of whom is actually a CB) - it's now extremely easy for the opposition to launch a ball down the channel and even with limited accuracy there is a 1v1 situation created against a player who is not typically comfortable in 1v1s, especially in wide areas. The reason why a 2-3 or 3-2 base in possession is popular is that the 5 vertical channels are all covered - it's a lot more difficult for the opposition to create isolations in space against a defensive base with some actual width.

But let's just summarise your idea - upon recovering the ball, Chelsea will not actually be able to attack well in transition because the RWB, LWB, and central CB will all be trying to move forwards instead of establishing a structure for ball retention, which would be fine if the ball could be booted long for a bruising CF to try to hold onto but that won't be the case. Should Chelsea somehow establish a toehold, they will then establish a structure that more or less looks like a lollipop, giving the opposing team colossal margins of error to just smash the ball down either flank to allow for a 1v1 opportunity. This is all for the benefit of creating width in the final third for James and Chilwell (also both notoriously durable players who 100% should be counted on to sprint 12 km per match up and down the pitch) to cross the ball into Nkunku, Mudryk, and (apparently) Rayan Cherki. And the crux of the problem is that Chelsea haven't bought the right types of players to make this all work?
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You do know it is possible to deploy two separate style of play right? During iteration of the game, Pochettino typically plays a possession oriented game, then when the opponent has the ball and are dominant in possession, the shape change change to a more defensive one with a focus on counter attacking.

Nkunku goal against Wrexham is a prime example of what I m talking about. Chelsea was dominant throughout the game and then, when the chance appears, their counter was lethal and worked exactly as I imagined.

I didn't say Pochettino has an issue, as I said he can be deployed like deli Ali. But moreso, that with the addition of Nkunku, he will be the central focus of the attack. I read somewhere that Pochettino would have preferred a creative no 10, but with nkunku there, he will have to get that creativity from mainly the wide areas and also get the likes of Enzo, gallaghar and Casadei to be more of that creative number 10. I may be wrong about this but Nkunku seems more of a goal scorer than creator, so with his addition, Pochettino has to play with that ss/st combination rather than the st/cam combination. Which he did well at spurs, but with modern football all about boxes in the midfield and getting numbers in there, having that combo in his preferred 4 2 3 1 system will leave more gaps in the midfield. Which is why someone like Caicedo is such an important addition, because he will help cover that gap found in a ss/st combination.

You seem to get the wrong idea about this system. It is like beating a dead horse as I try explaining it multiple times. Even when I did a player to player comparison to a team that plays this system, you still doesn't understand. There is no crux of the problem as you stated it. I stated that the system would be flawless if it had certain players like tchoimeni who will take colwill role and then colwill will take that lcb role. Moreover, rather than Nkunku as the main striker, it is better to have a no.9 who can hold up play like Oshimen or kane. However, with the squad Pochettino have, this is how I see the best use of their players with those they are rumored to be interested in as well. If you have any other problems understand this system, watch how Manchester city play when in possession and then also watch a few of Pochettino champion league games against real Madrid and Manchester city, to see how a tactic can be fluid throughout a match.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I’ve now reached the point where I’m getting a perverse pleasure from Chelsea fans on redcafe gradually all realising they’ve picked up an absolute mentalist on team Chelsea over the course of this summer….
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OverratedOpinion said:
I just wonder how sick his family are of hearing about Pochettino constantly.

Am - "Oh hey Auntie Helen how's work?"

AH - "Oh nothing much changes. How about you?"

Am - "Well you'll remember I got sacked from my last job by that bald prick, even though I got them to the UCL final. Then things went great in France and everyone loved me and now..."

AH - "You Amadeus! I'm asking about you!! This is why your mother worries about you."
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:lol: I honestly love the guy
 
Amadaeus said:
You do know it is possible to deploy two separate style of play right? During iteration of the game, Pochettino typically plays a possession oriented game, then when the opponent has the ball and are dominant in possession, the shape change change to a more defensive one with a focus on counter attacking.

Nkunku goal against Wrexham is a prime example of what I m talking about. Chelsea was dominant throughout the game and then, when the chance appears, their counter was lethal and worked exactly as I imagined.

I didn't say Pochettino has an issue, as I said he can be deployed like deli Ali. But moreso, that with the addition of Nkunku, he will be the central focus of the attack. I read somewhere that Pochettino would have preferred a creative no 10, but with nkunku there, he will have to get that creativity from mainly the wide areas and also get the likes of Enzo, gallaghar and Casadei to be more of that creative number 10. I may be wrong about this but Nkunku seems more of a goal scorer than creator, so with his addition, Pochettino has to play with that ss/st combination rather than the st/cam combination. Which he did well at spurs, but with modern football all about boxes in the midfield and getting numbers in there, having that combo in his preferred 4 2 3 1 system will leave more gaps in the midfield. Which is why someone like Caicedo is such an important addition, because he will help cover that gap found in a ss/st combination.

You seem to get the wrong idea about this system. It is like beating a dead horse as I try explaining it multiple times. Even when I did a player to player comparison to a team that plays this system, you still doesn't understand. There is no crux of the problem as you stated it. I stated that the system would be flawless if it had certain players like tchoimeni who will take colwill role and then colwill will take that lcb role. Moreover, rather than Nkunku as the main striker, it is better to have a no.9 who can hold up play like Oshimen or kane. However, with the squad Pochettino have, this is how I see the best use of their players with those they are rumored to be interested in as well. If you have any other problems understand this system, watch how Manchester city play when in possession and then also watch a few of Pochettino champion league games against real Madrid and Manchester city, to see how a tactic can be fluid throughout a match.
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So it's a system that currently makes little sense with the actual squad of players Chelsea have available with basically no actual upside? Thanks for confirming everything I've posted
 
Looked alright against Brighton. Put a couple of balls over the top for Chilwell to run onto which were really nice, and (by instruction I would assume) positioned himself really wide in the build-up phase of the play. Unfortunately gave away an unnecessary penalty at the end of the game to a lively Joao Pedro. Overall looked comfortable together with Silva, got done once or twice against lively Brighton attackers but looked good in the build-up. No prime Nesta/Maldini stuff but promising enough that Silva/Colwill with Chalobah as backup shouldn't be too terrifying at the start of the season.
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
So it's a system that currently makes little sense with the actual squad of players Chelsea have available with basically no actual upside? Thanks for confirming everything I've posted
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Pochettino has been using nkunku as a 9 and of course he hasn't tried colwill in that stones position yet because it is still earlier as I predicted.

Regardless, it is a system that makes perfect sense with the players they have, but could be better with alternative players. Seeing some of their preseason games, Jackson seems more capable to play that 9 than the big money signing nkunku, which once again goes to my point that nkunku seems like a signing that was a bit forced. Not many teams play with a ss and even Pochettino said he is experimenting with nkunku role. But from what I have analyzed so far is that jackson should be their main number 9. This opinion could change if nkunku play as a 9 again this preseason and performs really well, but Pochettino will have to make a tough call between his big signing nkunku or Jackson if it comes to Chelsea playing a system that has one number 9 and creative players behind him.

I don't think I have posted my main system other than then secondary system, but in a 4 2 3 1 as seen below, I m interested to see Jackson and nkunku play together and see how that works out.

Kudus or Olise - nkunku/cherki - Mudryk/sterling
Jackson/borja

Kudus or Olise - cherki - Mudryk/sterling
Jackson/nkunku
 
Amadaeus said:
Pochettino has been using nkunku as a 9 and of course he hasn't tried colwill in that stones position yet because it is still earlier as I predicted.

Regardless, it is a system that makes perfect sense with the players they have, but could be better with alternative players. Seeing some of their preseason games, Jackson seems more capable to play that 9 than the big money signing nkunku, which once again goes to my point that nkunku seems like a signing that was a bit forced. Not many teams play with a ss and even Pochettino said he is experimenting with nkunku role. But from what I have analyzed so far is that jackson should be their main number 9. This opinion could change if nkunku play as a 9 again this preseason and performs really well, but Pochettino will have to make a tough call between his big signing nkunku or Jackson if it comes to Chelsea playing a system that has one number 9 and creative players behind him.

I don't think I have posted my main system other than then secondary system, but in a 4 2 3 1 as seen below, I m interested to see Jackson and nkunku play together and see how that works out.

Kudus or Olise - nkunku/cherki - Mudryk/sterling
Jackson/borja

Kudus or Olise - cherki - Mudryk/sterling
Jackson/nkunku
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Nkunku is a more versatile player than you think. He is just as comfortable in midfield and on the flanks as he is as a second striker. He is actually a master of many trades. I'll be very surprised if Pochetino doesn't give him the type of role Dele Alli had when Spurs were at their flying best.
 
Amadaeus said:
Pochettino has been using nkunku as a 9 and of course he hasn't tried colwill in that stones position yet because it is still earlier as I predicted.

Regardless, it is a system that makes perfect sense with the players they have, but could be better with alternative players. Seeing some of their preseason games, Jackson seems more capable to play that 9 than the big money signing nkunku, which once again goes to my point that nkunku seems like a signing that was a bit forced. Not many teams play with a ss and even Pochettino said he is experimenting with nkunku role. But from what I have analyzed so far is that jackson should be their main number 9. This opinion could change if nkunku play as a 9 again this preseason and performs really well, but Pochettino will have to make a tough call between his big signing nkunku or Jackson if it comes to Chelsea playing a system that has one number 9 and creative players behind him.

I don't think I have posted my main system other than then secondary system, but in a 4 2 3 1 as seen below, I m interested to see Jackson and nkunku play together and see how that works out.

Kudus or Olise - nkunku/cherki - Mudryk/sterling
Jackson/borja

Kudus or Olise - cherki - Mudryk/sterling
Jackson/nkunku
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You have no idea what you're talking about - Stones' position for Man City works because they leave 3 behind when he steps up into midfield in Walker / Dias / Ake - and because Walker and Ake are comfortable wide 1v1 defenders given they have experience at both CB and fullback.

It makes a lot less sense to put a CB in midfield when the ultimate outcome is to leave a box at the back that apparently involves 40 year old Thiago Silva moving laterally to defend 1v1s all for the non existent benefit of getting Colwill into midfield where he'd have worse passing lanes than what he'd have from LCB anyways.

Your system makes no sense whatsoever given Chelsea's players, hence why you keep going on about who should be bought to make it work. Advocating that Colwill step into midfield for his passing when Enzo is already there is fecking ludicrous
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
You have no idea what you're talking about - Stones' position for Man City works because they leave 3 behind when he steps up into midfield in Walker / Dias / Ake - and because Walker and Ake are comfortable wide 1v1 defenders given they have experience at both CB and fullback.

It makes a lot less sense to put a CB in midfield when the ultimate outcome is to leave a box at the back that apparently involves 40 year old Thiago Silva moving laterally to defend 1v1s all for the non existent benefit of getting Colwill into midfield where he'd have worse passing lanes than what he'd have from LCB anyways.

Your system makes no sense whatsoever given Chelsea's players, hence why you keep going on about who should be bought to make it work. Advocating that Colwill step into midfield for his passing when Enzo is already there is fecking ludicrous
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Ok, i will explain in the most elementary form. It is basically a more defensive 4 - 3 -3 with colwill playing the number 6, cacedio the hybrid 5/6 and enzo the hybrid 8/10. I do not know why that doesn't make sense to you. I understand if it doesn't make sense if you don't think colwill has the ability to play that stones roles. If you think that, then I respect your opinion, but colwill is talented enough in possession and has the attribute to play that role.
 
Amadaeus said:
Ok, i will explain in the most elementary form. It is basically a more defensive 4 - 3 -3 with colwill playing the number 6, cacedio the hybrid 5/6 and enzo the hybrid 8/10. I do not know why that doesn't make sense to you. I understand if it doesn't make sense if you don't think colwill has the ability to play that stones roles. If you think that, then I respect your opinion, but colwill is talented enough in possession and has the attribute to play that role.
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The fundamental question remains why make players play more difficult hybrid roles for no tangible benefit? Unless there is something hugely advantageous that hasn't been described, all this system seems to do is make everyone's lives more difficult?
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
The fundamental question remains why make players play more difficult hybrid roles for no tangible benefit? Unless there is something hugely advantageous that hasn't been described, all this system seems to do is make everyone's lives more difficult?
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Football has transformed. In the current modern era things are a lot more complex and players do not operate in a rigid system. Instead, they have individual roles within a carefully designed blueprint as I tried to explained, but it seem to complex.

Most top managers have systems that are hybrids and dynamic nowadays and defining them in terms of traditional formations is too simplistic. How a team lines up for kick-off does not reflect what is going to happen for the next 90 minutes, which is why I tried to make you aware of the dynamism of each individual players role.

These players that understand this philosophy will know where they need to be when their team are in possession in order to get the ball to the most effective players at both end of the pitch. Players can not be pigeonholed as being one position. In this philosophy they drifts to where they can make the most impact. That is the underlying principles of what I m trying to get across to some on here.

So in conclusion the benefit is to the get the most out of each players abilities while on the pitch.
 
Amadaeus said:
Football has transformed. In the current modern era things are a lot more complex and players do not operate in a rigid system. Instead, they have individual roles within a carefully designed blueprint as I tried to explained, but it seem to complex.

Most top managers have systems that are hybrids and dynamic nowadays and defining them in terms of traditional formations is too simplistic. How a team lines up for kick-off does not reflect what is going to happen for the next 90 minutes, which is why I tried to make you aware of the dynamism of each individual players role.

These players that understand this philosophy will know where they need to be when their team are in possession in order to get the ball to the most effective players at both end of the pitch. Players can not be pigeonholed as being one position. In this philosophy they drifts to where they can make the most impact. That is the underlying principles of what I m trying to get across to some on here.

So in conclusion the benefit is to the get the most out of each players abilities while on the pitch.
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Again, I'm not trying to argue that hybrid roles can't be effective. I'm arguing that hybrid roles for the sake of having hybrid roles makes very little sense for a team with limited top flight experience like the current Chelsea squad.

You also have offered literally no plausible tactical benefit from this system beyond nonsensical platitudes that aren't even accurate anyway. A system that is more focused on getting the best of its individual players will also almost certainly work worse than one that is more cohesive.
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
Again, I'm not trying to argue that hybrid roles can't be effective. I'm arguing that hybrid roles for the sake of having hybrid roles makes very little sense for a team with limited top flight experience like the current Chelsea squad.

You also have offered literally no plausible tactical benefit from this system beyond nonsensical platitudes that aren't even accurate anyway. A system that is more focused on getting the best of its individual players will also almost certainly work worse than one that is more cohesive.
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As I stated at the very onset, that this formation is best used when there is more cohesion and gametime experience. It isn't something, I would not advocate for immediately for the first few weeks of the campaign. I stated this multiple times already and you keep thinking that this is my main go to system.

I already stated the tactical benefits already multiple time. Fluid movement which is a staple of a Pochettino team as we seen in ore season already, effective ball circulation (the box or i would say the diamond shape in midfield of this formation allows more precise intricate passes), quicker adaptation of opposition tactics, numerical superiority in midfield (with Colwell, caicedo, Enzo, inverted or traditional fullback, and wide attacking midfielder ) it will be hard to be outnumbered, and ample attacking options. all of this lead to a well balanced, dynamic system that will be difficult for any time to counter.
 
Amadaeus said:
As I stated at the very onset, that this formation is best used when there is more cohesion and gametime experience. It isn't something, I would not advocate for immediately for the first few weeks of the campaign. I stated this multiple times already and you keep thinking that this is my main go to system.

I already stated the tactical benefits already multiple time. Fluid movement which is a staple of a Pochettino team as we seen in ore season already, effective ball circulation (the box or i would say the diamond shape in midfield of this formation allows more precise intricate passes), quicker adaptation of opposition tactics, numerical superiority in midfield (with Colwell, caicedo, Enzo, inverted or traditional fullback, and wide attacking midfielder ) it will be hard to be outnumbered, and ample attacking options. all of this lead to a well balanced, dynamic system that will be difficult for any time to counter.
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Except for the entire advanced channels / wide areas which are wide open for a counterattack from one single launched ball that barely has to be accurate? Again, you have no provided one single actual tactical reason to use this odd box at the back over a more conventional 2-3 or 3-2
 
Are Chelsea supporters already petitioning to fire Pooch in order to get rid of the annoying forum WUM?
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
Except for the entire advanced channels / wide areas which are wide open for a counterattack from one single launched ball that barely has to be accurate? Again, you have no provided one single actual tactical reason to use this odd box at the back over a more conventional 2-3 or 3-2
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Bro I would just ignore him, there's no point in even trying to talk to him, he's an absolute loon. Anything Pochettino does is perfect in his mind because Pochettino is infallible.

Acrobat7 said:
Are Chelsea supporters already petitioning to fire Pooch in order to get rid of the annoying forum WUM?
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I don't even think he's a WUM though. He just has a serious love-in for Pochettino. I think he genuinely believes the nonsense he writes, because it's what his beloved Pochettino would do.
 
Amadaeus said:
Football has transformed. In the current modern era things are a lot more complex and players do not operate in a rigid system. Instead, they have individual roles within a carefully designed blueprint as I tried to explained, but it seem to complex.

Most top managers have systems that are hybrids and dynamic nowadays and defining them in terms of traditional formations is too simplistic. How a team lines up for kick-off does not reflect what is going to happen for the next 90 minutes, which is why I tried to make you aware of the dynamism of each individual players role.

These players that understand this philosophy will know where they need to be when their team are in possession in order to get the ball to the most effective players at both end of the pitch. Players can not be pigeonholed as being one position. In this philosophy they drifts to where they can make the most impact. That is the underlying principles of what I m trying to get across to some on here.

So in conclusion the benefit is to the get the most out of each players abilities while on the pitch.
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Football really hasn't transformed. We are at the stage where everyone is recycling stuff from 100 years ago. You think the WM is new? Or total football? Teams were playing like that in the 30's. The only difference is today the fitness levels and professionalism have increased by leaps and bounds. The basics of the game though, very simple. Reading posts like this one is like listening to someone talk about a subject they don't really understand and as such they try to make it sound as complicated as possible. That way they can come across as Mr. Smartypants. At the end of the day however, they are full of it, and deep down they know, and I suspect deep down you know too.
 
Howl said:
Football really hasn't transformed. We are at the stage where everyone is recycling stuff from 100 years ago. You think the WM is new? Or total football? Teams were playing like that in the 30's. The only difference is today the fitness levels and professionalism have increased by leaps and bounds. The basics of the game though, very simple. Reading posts like this one is like listening to someone talk about a subject they don't really understand and as such they try to make it sound as complicated as possible. That way they can come across as Mr. Smartypants. At the end of the day however, they are full of it, and deep down they know, and I suspect deep down you know too.
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That is all I have to read. If you think football hasn't transformed as much, no bother talking with someone that just want attention.
TheMagicFoolBus said:
Except for the entire advanced channels / wide areas which are wide open for a counterattack from one single launched ball that barely has to be accurate? Again, you have no provided one single actual tactical reason to use this odd box at the back over a more conventional 2-3 or 3-2
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How is the entire advanced channels open for counter attack when you have James and Chilwell playing full back and then have defensive covers in those areas in Caicedo, Colwell, Fofana/chalobah and Badishelle/Cucarella? With the latter option, when colwill drops back into the defense and make it a back three? I told you the system is dynamic and fluid, so it will be a 2-3(4-2) in possession and 3-2(5-2) while in a defensive shape. Seems like you are just arguing for the sake of arguing right now as I have countered every post you made with logical reasoning
 
Amadaeus said:
That is all I have to read. If you think football hasn't transformed as much, no bother talking with someone that just want attention.


How is the entire advanced channels open for counter attack when you have James and Chilwell playing full back and then have defensive covers in those areas in Caicedo, Colwell, Fofana/chalobah and Badishelle/Cucarella? With the latter option, when colwill drops back into the defense and make it a back three? I told you the system is dynamic and fluid, so it will be a 2-3(4-2) in possession and 3-2(5-2) while in a defensive shape. Seems like you are just arguing for the sake of arguing right now as I have countered every post you made with logical reasoning
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This is what I expect. Instead of proving why your right, and I'm wrong, you say you won't bother. You say that though because you have no answer to what I said, and that is because you know you are a fraud. Like I said when someone has to try and make things seem complex, they don't know what they are talking about and are overcompensating. When pressed they all do the same thing you just did, hide in their shells. Thanks for showing everyone on here why they should never talk to you.
 
Amadaeus said:
How is the entire advanced channels open for counter attack when you have James and Chilwell playing full back and then have defensive covers in those areas in Caicedo, Colwell, Fofana/chalobah and Badishelle/Cucarella? With the latter option, when colwill drops back into the defense and make it a back three? I told you the system is dynamic and fluid, so it will be a 2-3(4-2) in possession and 3-2(5-2) while in a defensive shape. Seems like you are just arguing for the sake of arguing right now as I have countered every post you made with logical reasoning
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Because in your formation, you have a box defending whilst James and Chilwell are providing width and the two wide attackers are playing more like 10s. A central box is inherently vulnerable to being bypassed by long balls down the line that would be more or less impossible to intercept by a narrow set of 4 players staying back. You keep saying the formation is dynamic and fluid (which is meaningless and also extremely short-sighted because if nothing else Pep Guardiola has proven the value of structure), but you seem to have forgotten that players can't teleport around the pitch so when the fullbacks are forward and there's a box of 4 at the back, all the other team has to do upon recovering possession is to kick it over whichever Chelsea player is in that wide area and immediately there's a counterattack on.

If you have a stable platform of a 3-2 or a 2-3 to build from, all 5 attacking verticals are covered by at least one player, and crucially intercepting the ball is way easier given the angles required to beat such an array.

I do agree with you though - a 2-3-4-2 system would be great. Small problem of not having a goalkeeper, mind.
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
Because in your formation, you have a box defending whilst James and Chilwell are providing width and the two wide attackers are playing more like 10s. A central box is inherently vulnerable to being bypassed by long balls down the line that would be more or less impossible to intercept by a narrow set of 4 players staying back. You keep saying the formation is dynamic and fluid (which is meaningless and also extremely short-sighted because if nothing else Pep Guardiola has proven the value of structure), but you seem to have forgotten that players can't teleport around the pitch so when the fullbacks are forward and there's a box of 4 at the back, all the other team has to do upon recovering possession is to kick it over whichever Chelsea player is in that wide area and immediately there's a counterattack on.

If you have a stable platform of a 3-2 or a 2-3 to build from, all 5 attacking verticals are covered by at least one player, and crucially intercepting the ball is way easier given the angles required to beat such an array.

I do agree with you though - a 2-3-4-2 system would be great. Small problem of not having a goalkeeper, mind.
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It seems we are at am impass because I have stated already that the number 5 and number 6 in this formation will slot in a defensive position when the fullbacks are marauding forward. Similarly, when in a defensive shape, the number 2 and number 3 will cover the flanks. The flanks will not be open when there is proper midfield/defensive cover in the system. Having that extra cb in mid will allow the rcb or lcb to also cover the flanks when have to. I do not see any flaws in this system. Moreover, This system has been deployed before, the only thing revolutionary about it is that it is more offensive minded than a traditional 3-5-3 system and it is specifically targeted toward managers who plays a dynamic possession based and counter based system.
 
Amadaeus said:
It seems we are at am impass because I have stated already that the number 5 and number 6 in this formation will slot in a defensive position when the fullbacks are marauding forward. Similarly, when in a defensive shape, the number 2 and number 3 will cover the flanks. The flanks will not be open when there is proper midfield/defensive cover in the system. Having that extra cb in mid will allow the rcb or lcb to also cover the flanks when have to. I do not see any flaws in this system. Moreover, This system has been deployed before, the only thing revolutionary about it is that it is more offensive minded than a traditional 3-5-3 system and it is specifically targeted toward managers who plays a dynamic possession based and counter based system.
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How are you not understanding that sending an extra CB into midfield does not, in fact, add to the defensive solidity of the team? Again, the only reason Pep has done it is because he has two wide defenders in Ake and Walker who are experienced and comfortable as CBs and as FBs, and even then there is always a 3 man backline instead of a 2 man backline? Notwithstanding the simple fact that you are asking a near 40 year old in Thiago Silva to be extremely mobile and defend wide areas in addition to his own zone?

Also again, if a 3-5-3 system was feasible I'd be all for it; only problem is the opposition lobbing the whole team from inside their half given the lack of a goalkeeper.
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
How are you not understanding that sending an extra CB into midfield does not, in fact, add to the defensive solidity of the team? Again, the only reason Pep has done it is because he has two wide defenders in Ake and Walker who are experienced and comfortable as CBs and as FBs, and even then there is always a 3 man backline instead of a 2 man backline? Notwithstanding the simple fact that you are asking a near 40 year old in Thiago Silva to be extremely mobile and defend wide areas in addition to his own zone?

Also again, if a 3-5-3 system was feasible I'd be all for it; only problem is the opposition lobbing the whole team from inside their half given the lack of a goalkeeper.
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Cucurella/Badishelle and fofana/chalobah are comfortable playing as wide defenders. Perhaps only Thiago will struggle with that. And with that shape, Caicedo will be asked to cover the right wide areas with even James being tasked to be more aware of his defensive responsibilities. Adding an extra cb in midfield does add to the defensive solidarity as you will have more defensive aware players on the pitch, that is capable of not only making more tackles and interception, but being dominat in aerial battle, which the likes of Caceido with his short frame will struggle to compete with. I do not see how you do not see it either. And once again, I already explain why it is a 3 in a back because I want costa as the sweeper. It is actually a 2 in possession with the 6 being more of an anchor that slots between the cb or to the left of the cb depending of how the game is going.
 
Amadaeus said:
Cucurella/Badishelle and fofana/chalobah are comfortable playing as wide defenders. Perhaps only Thiago will struggle with that. And with that shape, Caicedo will be asked to cover the right wide areas with even James being tasked to be more aware of his defensive responsibilities. Adding an extra cb in midfield does add to the defensive solidarity as you will have more defensive aware players on the pitch, that is capable of not only making more tackles and interception, but being dominat in aerial battle, which the likes of Caceido with his short frame will struggle to compete with. I do not see how you do not see it either. And once again, I already explain why it is a 3 in a back because I want costa as the sweeper. It is actually a 2 in possession with the 6 being more of an anchor that slots between the cb or to the left of the cb depending of how the game is going.
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Well Cucurella can't defend anything and are you really suggesting we play him in the starting XI with Chilwell? Fofana is already out for the year with an ACL tear as well. I also don't understand how James can both provide width down the right for Cherki cutting inside but also be more defensively aware?

Again - why does this make more sense than just sending one of James or Chilwell forward? Both are comfortable in wide areas and central areas defensively. Both have issues with fitness, so allowing them to alternate who is attacking makes sense. Why are we trying to reinvent the wheel with a million moving parts just to say we've reinvented it?

If Poch can get Chelsea playing a cohesive system both on and off the ball this year I'll be thrilled. He doesn't get extra points for originality - especially if the physical toll he's hypothetically demanding with something like this create problems down the line. Literally nothing you have said tactically has any basis in the way football is actually played or evaluated today.
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
I don't know why I do this to myself
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If an adult argues with a 10 year old, they have already lost. In no way calling Amadaeus a 10 year old. Just that it seems pointless considering his love for Poch is the most over the top thing on this forum, and you don’t need to look very hard to find over the top statements here. They all seriously pale in comparison.
 
Zaphod2319 said:
If an adult argues with a 10 year old, they have already lost. In no way calling Amadaeus a 10 year old. Just that it seems pointless considering his love for Poch is the most over the top thing on this forum, and you don’t need to look very hard to find over the top statements here. They all seriously pale in comparison.
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Well in my defense, I figured a discussion was feasible given no aspersions were being cast on His Holiness and the focus was more on the potential issues with setting up football teams who need 12 men to actually make sense
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
Well Cucurella can't defend anything and are you really suggesting we play him in the starting XI with Chilwell? Fofana is already out for the year with an ACL tear as well. I also don't understand how James can both provide width down the right for Cherki cutting inside but also be more defensively aware?

Again - why does this make more sense than just sending one of James or Chilwell forward? Both are comfortable in wide areas and central areas defensively. Both have issues with fitness, so allowing them to alternate who is attacking makes sense. Why are we trying to reinvent the wheel with a million moving parts just to say we've reinvented it?

If Poch can get Chelsea playing a cohesive system both on and off the ball this year I'll be thrilled. He doesn't get extra points for originality - especially if the physical toll he's hypothetically demanding with something like this create problems down the line. Literally nothing you have said tactically has any basis in the way football is actually played or evaluated today.
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Is it the first time it has been done? Cucurella not my first choice, but he could do a job there. The lineup was made before fofana got injured, so now he is out, chalobah or silva can occupy that role. The quality isn't there as I stated before, but Pochettino has to do with what he is giving. Chalobah is more apt to that rcb role, but once again the quality isn't there.

You have never seen a wingback defend before and also provide width? This isn't an entirely new concept. And as stated again, Caceido is very familiar with thr rb role, so as the 5, he can also cover for James when making those maurading runs. I did not think I had to mention it, but the wings back will be alternating to ensure they don't deplete their stamina as much. This is common for wingbacks in such a system. You say it has no basis, but just because you don't understand how something works, you decides to make an irrational conclusion even though I explained how to overcome all your doubts. As I stated, we are at an impass because you are adamant it won't work, even though there is already evidence in modern football that it will.
 
Amadaeus said:
Is it the first time it has been done? Cucurella not my first choice, but he could do a job there. The lineup was made before fofana got injured, so now he is out, chalobah or silva can occupy that role. The quality isn't there as I stated before, but Pochettino has to do with what he is giving. Chalobah is more apt to that rcb role, but once again the quality isn't there.

You have never seen a wingback defend before and also provide width? This isn't an entirely new concept. And as stated again, Caceido is very familiar with thr rb role, so as the 5, he can also cover for James when making those maurading runs. I did not think I had to mention it, but the wings back will be alternating to ensure they don't deplete their stamina as much. This is common for wingbacks in such a system. You say it has no basis, but just because you don't understand how something works, you decides to make an irrational conclusion even though I explained how to overcome all your doubts. As I stated, we are at an impass because you are adamant it won't work, whereas there is already evidence in modern football that it will.
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Obviously, but in the context of there actually being 3 CBs behind to provide the needed width to defend transitions. Why can you not comprehend this basic facet of football? Why are you sending one of them forward into midfield?

More to the point, why do you think Popechettino hasn't gone with your nonsensical formation in pre-season and has instead used a 4-2-3-1 that tends to push one wingback forward depending on the situation, exactly as I suggested?

Hast thou god forsaken thee?
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
How are you not understanding that sending an extra CB into midfield does not, in fact, add to the defensive solidity of the team? Again, the only reason Pep has done it is because he has two wide defenders in Ake and Walker who are experienced and comfortable as CBs and as FBs, and even then there is always a 3 man backline instead of a 2 man backline? Notwithstanding the simple fact that you are asking a near 40 year old in Thiago Silva to be extremely mobile and defend wide areas in addition to his own zone?

Also again, if a 3-5-3 system was feasible I'd be all for it; only problem is the opposition lobbing the whole team from inside their half given the lack of a goalkeeper.
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:lol::lol::lol: If anyone can do it and do it well its Poch.
 
Howl said:
Football really hasn't transformed. We are at the stage where everyone is recycling stuff from 100 years ago. You think the WM is new? Or total football? Teams were playing like that in the 30's. The only difference is today the fitness levels and professionalism have increased by leaps and bounds. The basics of the game though, very simple. Reading posts like this one is like listening to someone talk about a subject they don't really understand and as such they try to make it sound as complicated as possible. That way they can come across as Mr. Smartypants. At the end of the day however, they are full of it, and deep down they know, and I suspect deep down you know too.
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You think football hasn't changed much? Are you drunk? The tactical side of things has completely changed, the structure and organisation is night and day.
 
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