Let's bust some myths about Manchester United

devilish said:
The Glazers are happy with Ole and a 4th EPL place

There's no doubt that 4th place is minimum requirement but I very much doubt that a club who had bankrolled a manager at the tune of 415m are happy with just 4th place and no trophies whatsoever. The administration may be incompetent but they aren't stupid.

Ole has build a great side

Did he? He spent 180m in a defense that leaks more then the Titanic. This year and last year most expensive signings are rotting on the bench. I describe his second transfer window as the invisible transfer window simply because none of the players we bought were given a first team shot. Its too early to judge his third transfer window but the most expensive signing made last summer is rotting on the bench alongside last year most expensive signing. That doesn't strike me as him building a great side.

Ole believes in youths

Apart from Greenwood none of the kids he promoted had a sniff of first team football. Ole went on signing the likes of Heaton and Mcshane at reserve level + he gave/offered contract extensions to Matic, Grant, Jesse and Mata despite United already have players like Mejbri, Garner, Elanga and Diallo at his disposal. That doesn't strike me as a manager who believes in youths

Trust the process. This is a team for the future

Not exactly. DDG, Ronaldo, Cavani, Matic, Mata and Heaton are in their 30s. Varane, Bruno, Pogba, Maguire, Fred, Lindelof, Telles and Jesse are in their late 20s. This team is designed to win NOW.

Workrate, Workrate, Workrate

Work rate is a trait. You can't possibly expect a Cristiano Ronaldo or a Greenwood to suddenly start playing like prime Park or Keane did. Ole had ample opportunities to add a much needed DM to the team. He chose to sign the likes of VDB, Sancho and Ronaldo to the team despite we already had the likes of Martial, Pogba, Bruno, Rashford and Cavani in the team as well. This unbalanced side is his side.
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Yes agree with everything you said.
 
OmarUnited4ever said:
Agree with everything you said except the above.

Maguire performed very well in the Euros and last season too, so he has it in him to be better than what he has shown this season.

AWB played very well in a lot of games and has improved since he arrived.

Bruno hit the ground running and is our talisman.

Varane is a quality CB and has shown us how good he is and how good he can be.

Sancho is a quality winger, he has not pulled any trees but he is young and will definitely improve as the season goes.

Ronaldo is one of the best goal scorers in Europe.

Telles is a decent LB cover when needed.

Cavani, who played very well last term, is an excellent striker who can offer different attributes to the ones Ronaldo can offer.

Amad & Pellistri are for the future.

The one negative signing which he mismanaged is VdB, (he shouldn't have singed him to begin with).

So overall, Ole did build a very good side (that also includes other very good players, such as Shaw, Rashford, Pogba, De Gea, etc...)

Ole's inability to manage & coach said quality side does not take away from what he did in terms of players recruitment.


I agree with the rest of your post.
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The proof is in the pudding mate.
OmarUnited4ever said:
Agree with everything you said except the above.

Maguire performed very well in the Euros and last season too, so he has it in him to be better than what he has shown this season.

AWB played very well in a lot of games and has improved since he arrived.

Bruno hit the ground running and is our talisman.

Varane is a quality CB and has shown us how good he is and how good he can be.

Sancho is a quality winger, he has not pulled any trees but he is young and will definitely improve as the season goes.

Ronaldo is one of the best goal scorers in Europe.

Telles is a decent LB cover when needed.

Cavani, who played very well last term, is an excellent striker who can offer different attributes to the ones Ronaldo can offer.

Amad & Pellistri are for the future.

The one negative signing which he mismanaged is VdB, (he shouldn't have singed him to begin with).

So overall, Ole did build a very good side (that also includes other very good players, such as Shaw, Rashford, Pogba, De Gea, etc...)

Ole's inability to manage & coach said quality side does not take away from what he did in terms of players recruitment.


I agree with the rest of your post.
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I suggest you go past the names and the soundbites and focus on reality. We play with two defensive minded midfielders and we spent 180m in defense and yet defense is still a major concern. In fact we're 8th place in terms of goals conceded behind the likes of Crystal Palace, Brentford and Brighton. That's the cold hard fact.

Can things improve with the current side? In my opinion the answer is yes. Varane will improve us, Maguire would do far better in a low block defense and if others do the thinking for him, Telles is more suited as a wingback and things would improve if we add a top quality holding player, a deep lying playmaker, a manager + coaches who knows what tactics/coaching is and we play 4-3-3. However that means painful changes, more money invested and us having to adapt to these players when in reality we should have bought players who suited our game. Basically we bought a Nissan for the price of a Ferrari and we're adding all sort of upgrades to make it competitive at F1 level.
 
How do I like a post? I've never agreed with an OP more than in this thread.

Late contender for thread of the year.
 
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Positive Atmosphere even without results is a great achievement and should be celebrated

Positive atmosphere around the club is good and is a necessary component of success, but only coupled with good results. When the coaching is not good enough and team is underperforming the positive atmosphere will disappear anyway as there will be blame to go around, players become worried for their careers etc, leaks and excuses start to pile up - everything that we are witnessing now. It is like when you have a university team project and the team leader says let's go drinking/clubbing instead of doing it, everyone is happy and the atmosphere is great and then reckoning (deadline) comes and everyone blames everyone etc.

Plus, in the case of Ole the "positivity" was achieved from a very low base. Most other managers would be able to improve the mood after Mourinho. I remember reading how Valencia players were so incredibly happy under a noname caretaker after Kouman left, since Kouman alienated basically everyone.
 
I don't know if it's a myth to bust but people need to realise how huge our club is, how massive our resources are. The idea Ole has done this amazing job when we dwarf almost all teams we play with transfer fees, wage bills, support etc. There are managers working with a tenth as much as Ole achieving far more. The truth is we are such a massive club that spending a few quid and getting us in the top 4 and the odd cup final is not that remarkable. The performances and systems from "smaller" sides in the PL put us to shame.
 
OmarUnited4ever said:
Agree with everything you said except the above.

Maguire performed very well in the Euros and last season too, so he has it in him to be better than what he has shown this season.

AWB played very well in a lot of games and has improved since he arrived.

Bruno hit the ground running and is our talisman.

Varane is a quality CB and has shown us how good he is and how good he can be.

Sancho is a quality winger, he has not pulled any trees but he is young and will definitely improve as the season goes.

Ronaldo is one of the best goal scorers in Europe.

Telles is a decent LB cover when needed.

Cavani, who played very well last term, is an excellent striker who can offer different attributes to the ones Ronaldo can offer.

Amad & Pellistri are for the future.

The one negative signing which he mismanaged is VdB, (he shouldn't have singed him to begin with).

So overall, Ole did build a very good side (that also includes other very good players, such as Shaw, Rashford, Pogba, De Gea, etc...)

Ole's inability to manage & coach said quality side does not take away from what he did in terms of players recruitment.


I agree with the rest of your post.
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This is not glass half full, it is glass completely full optimism.
 
I agree with parts of it but I strongly disagree with people who dismiss the "cultural reset" stuff as some sort of PR campaign and the work that has gone into rebuilding the squad.

We shouldnt forget that we finished 3rd and then 2nd consecutively. I don't care what anybody says about points totals or luck, you can't fluke a league position over the course of 38 games. You finish where you deserve, I wont hear any other argument on the subject. These players are not poor players, they are just poorly organised right now.

Let's wait and see what a manager with a clear idea and some tactical nous can do with this squad before we write them all off again.
 
Drizzle said:
We actually run and press very badly, statistically. So even under this most basic of metrics, Ole has failed dismally.
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First of all we're badly coached and our tactics are just wrong. That's something even the Ole inners are now admitting. However even if you take that out of the picture, we're still in trouble. The reality is that superb coaching/tactics can improve a side to a certain extent. It won't make the likes of Nani, Ronaldo and Pirlo run and act like a Keane or a Park. Which is why even the best of managers who were leading the best of teams ended up utilizing players like Gattuso, Fletcher or Park.

Ole built a very unbalanced side. You simply cannot have a successful side who have Greenwood, Ronaldo, Sancho, Rashford, Pogba and Bruno playing week in week out. Even a prime Keane or a prime Rijkaard would struggle with that let alone Fred or McT. I mean let's have a look at what I consider the best team ever assembled ie the AC Milan of the three Dutchmen. Their defense had Baresi, Maldini, Tassotti and Costacurta who were comfortably better then all of our defenders bar maybe Varane (he would have gone toe to toe against Costacurta not Maldini or Baresi). Yet despite that defense and a very attacking minded manager they still played Ancelotti AND Rijkaard in midfield. That was the only way they could sustain a star studded midfield and forward line which was made up of the likes of Van Basten and Gullit

So all this criticism lie falls straight on Ole's lap.
 
Lentwood said:
I agree with parts of it but I strongly disagree with people who dismiss the "cultural reset" stuff as some sort of PR campaign and the work that has gone into rebuilding the squad.

We shouldnt forget that we finished 3rd and then 2nd consecutively. I don't care what anybody says about points totals or luck, you can't fluke a league position over the course of 38 games. You finish where you deserve, I wont hear any other argument on the subject. These players are not poor players, they are just poorly organised right now.

Let's wait and see what a manager with a clear idea and some tactical nous can do with this squad before we write them all off again.
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But what is "cultural reset" in concrete terms beyond a more positive atmosphere than with Mourinho and Ole not throwing players under the bus, which is not a great achievement to say the least? It seems like a meaningless buzzword to me, sorry.

Are we playing attractive good-to-watch attacking football? No. Are we playing youngsters? No, bar Greenwood. We have Amad but Mata and Lingard sign new contracts. Did we stop rewarding mediocrity? Jones, Pereira, Mata, Bailly (and now clearly underperforming amd not-good-enough coaches) got new contracts. Did we shift transfer policy to signing up and coming players vs signing superstars on big wages? No. We are all "United DNA" talk but no substance.

And on 2rd and 3rd finishes - you cannot completely fluke a league position, but you can easily be lucky to be a couple of positions above. As per expected goals/points we were 4th in both of the seasons. But we improved on expected points under Ole from 62 to 71 but last season dropped to 66, so no continuous progression. And now we are on course to achieve 59, so after initial improvement in 2019-2020 we are in decline, and it did not start this season.
 
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Max_United said:
But what is "cultural reset" in concrete terms beyond a more positive atmosphere than with Mourinho and Ole not throwing players under the bus, which is not a great achievement to say the least? It seems like a meaningless buzzword to me, sorry.

Are we playing attractive good-to-watch attacking football? No. Are we playing youngsters? No, bar Greenwood. We have Amad but Mata and Lingard sign new contracts. Did we stop rewarding mediocrity? Jones, Pereira, Mata, Bailly (and now clearly underperforming amd not-good-enough coaches) got new contracts. Did we shift transfer policy to signing up and coming players vs signing superstars on big wages? No. We are all "United DNA" talk but no substance.

And on 2rd and 3rd finishes - you cannot completely fluke a league position, but you can easily be lucky to be a couple of positions above. As per expected goals/points we were 4th in both of the seasons. But we improved on expected points under Ole from 62 to 71 but last season dropped to 66, so no continuous progression. And now we are on course to achieve 59, so after initial improvement in 2019-2020 we are in decline, and it did not start this season.
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Well, you can call it whatever you like, but to me, it means returning to the values that the club is supposed to represent and instilling those in the players. That does mean something. Ask the CEO of a large company whether culture and attitude is important. Every single one of them will tell you it is. Poor culture leads to poor performance.

On the point of "are we playing youngsters", the stats are against you on that one. The cold, hard facts are that we fielded the 3rd youngest team (on average) in the PL last year. When fans talk about 'young players', they seem to think that means 18/19/20...but that's not the reality, very few players play regularly in the PL at that age.

Did we shift transfer policy? I would say so. Look at the signings under Moyes, LvG and Jose and then look at the signings we made under Ole. The signings we make now are predominantly u25 and still on an upward curve. Ronaldo and Cavani are the obvious exceptions to this, but they are quick fixes and I am sure we will soon bring in an u25 CF.

Going back to my initial point, these are good players. The vast majority of them start regularly for their national teams. We have good strength in-depth. The age profile is good. I am not having that these lads have become poor players overnight. For me, all of this is solely on lack of direction and tactical vision from the manager and coaching staff
 
Ferguson’s Hairdryer said:
Getting SA Ferguson in the 80s is closer to Liverpool getting Klopp from Dortmund , but SAF had even more credit in the bank because he broke a two team duopoly in Scotland to win the league and beat Real Madrid in European Cup winners cup final.

People who make the Ole to SAF comparison for time are really insulting only their own football intelligence.
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So Diego Simeone is our man then.
 
Revan said:
This is not glass half full, it is glass completely full optimism.
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This squad with the right manager, i am not saying we will win trophies, but they will show us much better than the dross that we've been served under Ole, it is possible.
 
The only thing I'd dispute is that Greenwood has some inherent quality that he can't work hard.

He can and he should. We have to drill that into him. It could be partly physical, partly psychological, partly he isn't sure tactically what to do. It is all solvable, whether under this manager or not.

Same for Rashford, and all our wide forwards. We have to demand much more from them. There isn't any excuse.
 
OmarUnited4ever said:
This squad with the right manager, i am not saying we will win trophies, but they will show us much better than the dross that we've been served under Ole, it is possible.
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I totally agree with that. I just think that his signings have not been nowhere as good as what you can get with 420m, and while most of those players are good (in fact all, except AWB who should not be a starter), it should have been possible to get much mroe for that money.
 
Ole is a Legend

Yes he scored in the championship league final but other than that he was a squad player. A super sub. He was never world class and I don't think he had a lot of offers to go to a bigger club. That's why I think he was happy to stay here and sit on the bench.
 
devilish said:
The proof is in the pudding mate.


I suggest you go past the names and the soundbites and focus on reality. We play with two defensive minded midfielders and we spent 180m in defense and yet defense is still a major concern. In fact we're 8th place in terms of goals conceded behind the likes of Crystal Palace, Brentford and Brighton. That's the cold hard fact.

Can things improve with the current side? In my opinion the answer is yes. Varane will improve us, Maguire would do far better in a low block defense and if others do the thinking for him, Telles is more suited as a wingback and things would improve if we add a top quality holding player, a deep lying playmaker, a manager + coaches who knows what tactics/coaching is and we play 4-3-3. However that means painful changes, more money invested and us having to adapt to these players when in reality we should have bought players who suited our game. Basically we bought a Nissan for the price of a Ferrari and we're adding all sort of upgrades to make it competitive at F1 level.
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Regarding the bolded part, I am not gonna say McFred is as good as top CMs and ultimately not good enough for Manchester United, but, they aren't as shit as they are portrayed to be on the Caf, they have their limitations, but I believe they are serviceable in a good setup.

and about conceding goals, even if you have prime Rio & Vidic with Evra & Brown, they will be torn to shreds by top teams if they are not setup properly, I know our defenders are in bad form and full of mistakes, but last night, Liverpool created chances and scored goals with extreme ease, and this indicates the team is not set to deal with attacks from the opponent.

All I am saying here is: -

This squad, should be able to show us a lot better than what we've seen this season, better defending, better attacking, better cohesion and better organization, regardless of how we play (433, 4231, 352, pressing, low block, counter attacking, etc..), and i am not saying we will win a major trophy this season with this squad by just getting rid of Ole and getting a Zidane or a Conte, I am just saying this squad (which has good players including the ones brought in during Ole's reign) should be able to do much better, and that what the new manager (if ever we get a new one) should try to achieve.
 
Revan said:
I totally agree with that. I just think that his signings have not been nowhere as good as what you can get with 420m, and while most of those players are good (in fact all, except AWB who should not be a starter), it should have been possible to get much mroe for that money.
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oh yes, we spent too much money, the quality might not much what we've got it for.
 
Ghengis said:
Ole is a Legend

Yes he scored in the championship league final but other than that he was a squad player. A super sub. He was never world class and I don't think he had a lot of offers to go to a bigger club. That's why I think he was happy to stay here and sit on the bench.
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He is a club legend as a player though, let's not try and damage his reputation as a player.

As a manager there's probably something to be said for that mindset though. The best players move because they want to play and develop, Ole was content on the bench and he let his love for the club essentially stunt his career - he was easily good enough to start for most top 4-6 clubs in Europe. If he never wanted to step outside his comfort zone as a player is it any wonder he's not hands on as a coach?
 
devilish said:
The Glazers are happy with Ole and a 4th EPL place

There's no doubt that 4th place is minimum requirement but I very much doubt that a club who had bankrolled a manager at the tune of 415m are happy with just 4th place and no trophies whatsoever. The administration may be incompetent but they aren't stupid.

Ole has build a great side

Did he? He spent 180m in a defense that leaks more then the Titanic. This year and last year most expensive signings are rotting on the bench. I describe his second transfer window as the invisible transfer window simply because none of the players we bought were given a first team shot. Its too early to judge his third transfer window but the most expensive signing made last summer is rotting on the bench alongside last year most expensive signing. That doesn't strike me as him building a great side.

Ole believes in youths

Apart from Greenwood none of the kids he promoted had a sniff of first team football. Ole went on signing the likes of Heaton and Mcshane at reserve level + he gave/offered contract extensions to Matic, Grant, Jesse and Mata despite United already have players like Mejbri, Garner, Elanga and Diallo at his disposal. That doesn't strike me as a manager who believes in youths

Trust the process. This is a team for the future

Not exactly. DDG, Ronaldo, Cavani, Matic, Mata and Heaton are in their 30s. Varane, Bruno, Pogba, Maguire, Fred, Lindelof, Telles and Jesse are in their late 20s. This team is designed to win NOW.

Workrate, Workrate, Workrate

Work rate is a trait. You can't possibly expect a Cristiano Ronaldo or a Greenwood to suddenly start playing like prime Park or Keane did. Ole had ample opportunities to add a much needed DM to the team. He chose to sign the likes of VDB, Sancho and Ronaldo to the team despite we already had the likes of Martial, Pogba, Bruno, Rashford and Cavani in the team as well. This unbalanced side is his side.
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every word spot on
 
OmarUnited4ever said:
Regarding the bolded part, I am not gonna say McFred is as good as top CMs and ultimately not good enough for Manchester United, but, they aren't as shit as they are portrayed to be on the Caf, they have their limitations, but I believe they are serviceable in a good setup.

and about conceding goals, even if you have prime Rio & Vidic with Evra & Brown, they will be torn to shreds by top teams if they are not setup properly, I know our defenders are in bad form and full of mistakes, but last night, Liverpool created chances and scored goals with extreme ease, and this indicates the team is not set to deal with attacks from the opponent.

All I am saying here is: -

This squad, should be able to show us a lot better than what we've seen this season, better defending, better attacking, better cohesion and better organization, regardless of how we play (433, 4231, 352, pressing, low block, counter attacking, etc..), and i am not saying we will win a major trophy this season with this squad by just getting rid of Ole and getting a Zidane or a Conte, I am just saying this squad (which has good players including the ones brought in during Ole's reign) should be able to do much better, and that what the new manager (if ever we get a new one) should try to achieve.
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I feel sorry for Fred and McT TBH. First of all they are not first team level at a club like Manchester United. Secondly they are B2B players so we're really playing them out of position. In my opinion, United's biggest issue is Ole's inability to understand how CM works. Here is what he said

"Today’s football is about he’s a good 6, 8, 10, back in the day you had proper midfielders, Roy Keane, Paul Scholes, Bryan Robson. "You see players out there who can attack and defend and that’s what we look for, midfielders who are complete and we try to develop that in our midfield."

There's nothing wrong about that on face value. However when you take that at a tactical level then there's cracks all over the place. Let's take PS as an example. PS played mainly in two different formations. The 99 side had Keane, Beckham, Giggs and himself in midfield. Keane was a top quality DM, Beckham did alot of work defensive wise and Cole + Yorke dropped significantly deep. Then we had the 08 system. Keane was replaced with a less defensive minded Carrick and Ronaldo did far less defensive work then Becks did. oHwever we added Park on the flanks + Rooney & Tevez upfront who worked their socks off. So in reality this myth that PS could be thrown in midfield and do all sort of jobs is a myth. PS needed to be played in a certain system with certain players around him. In fact he struggled with England despite having Gerrard and Lampard around him.

Keane is a better fit to that quote. He could both attack and defend. However he couldn't do both at the same time. When Ince decided to act out and play as an AM despite being a DM our CM went in shock. In fact lack of composure costed us the FA cup final against Everton and lead to Ince being shown the door. Now we're talking about Ince and Keane here who were possibly the most hardworking and quite frankly intimidating CM the EPL had ever seen. In their prime they could chew McT and Fred for breakfast.

So this notion that you can just throw two complete CMs in and they'll sort things out is crazy. Football doesn't work like that. Tactics and balance is important irrespective whether you've got Keane or Fred in the team;.
 
red thru&thru said:
Top clubs which are?
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Liverpool do it that way. Chelsea are not playing that attacking, but are still a dominant team while using several players from their academy. City also do it that way, however I think they have less promoted talents from their academy? Looking at internation competition, Bayern, Barcelona (not a top club at the moment, but have been that for a long time), Dortmund, Ajax all promote youth and play dominant and attacking football, just do name a few examples I am sure of. Even a club like Real Madrid manages to promote a similar amount of youngsters to the first team as United did.
 
red thru&thru said:
There's no "United Way" as such, however, at Manchester United, the club is expected to play attacking and dominating football, infusing players from the youth system and creating superstars. Our successful past tells you this.
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I think Ole might have successfully killed it off then.
 
That part of our DNA is hiring long term managers. I wrote this in another thread.

I keep hearing about traditions and long term managers, but somehow that didn't apply to O'Farrell and Wilf, who each lasted 18 months in the job, not too dissimilar from what you see Watford or Chelsea doing these days. Or how about when Atkinson was sacked to make way for Alex Ferguson although Atkinson was our most successful manager post-Busby?

It is a made up idea that doesn't exist. We've had two managers that were here for a disproportionately long time (SAF and Busby) because they were great and were here for a long time because they proved that they deserved that. Outside these two, our managerial history is not too dissimilar to other clubs. The circle-jerk about us being so different and special needs to stop.
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The myth that we have one of the best squads in the world. It could be said we have the fourth best squad in the premiership. Our attacking players can be up there with the best. Defense and midfield are not up there with the best.
 
Ferguson’s Hairdryer said:
Getting SA Ferguson in the 80s is closer to Liverpool getting Klopp from Dortmund , but SAF had even more credit in the bank because he broke a two team duopoly in Scotland to win the league and beat Real Madrid in European Cup winners cup final.

People who make the Ole to SAF comparison for time are really insulting only their own football intelligence.
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Exactly. SAF was already a good manager having bested the Old Firm in the league, and winning a European trophy.
 
This is very unpopular opinion, but I'm going to type it anyway even though I will get dogs abuse because of it:

The current problems at Manchester Utd. FC can be pretty much laid at the door of one man: Sir Alex Ferguson.

There are some (older) people on here who can't read any criticism of the man - but I sense younger fans are beginning to realise the truth: that if you build up an empire, but structure it in such a way that when you leave, it all falls apart - especially if you keep meddling in that empire - then there comes a point when questions should be asked. We are at that point now.

Who brought the Glazers to Utd? (due to a dispute over a blinking racehorse) 20 years ago.

Who made a phonecall in August, to Ronaldo, to get him to reject Man City and rejoin Utd. even though it has totally messed up Ole's project?

These two events bookend numerous other 'mistakes' from the great man: anointing Moyes as his successor, running down the clubs playing staff in the last 7-8 years of his reign and worst of all undermining the current manager week in, week out. Has the club learnt nothing from history? because this has happened before. Who sits in the stand waiting for the cameras to find him, shaking his head at 0-4 down, 'look at me, look at me - this wouldn't have happened in my day'? Well back in his day Utd. really only had one or two rivals, Arsenal & Chelsea and all the money to buy anyone they wanted and if he tried to manage a Club in 2021 the way he did back then, he'd soon be done for work-place bullying. People keep saying Ole is too nice to be successful, but in this day and age it doesn't work like that - the players have too much power for a start, but the poor guy has been undermined - he was actually making really good progress evolving the squad and then this Ronaldo thing has cocked that up and he will likely lose his job because of it.

Man Utd. should have thanked Sir Alex for his amazing success, but when he resigned, that should have been it. Think about other walks of life, once the head of any big business (and Utd. are a business) leaves, then the new people take control. To continue to go back to the previous leader, causes all sorts of issues and these are plain to see, when you look at Man Utd, today.
 
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JebelSherif said:
This is very unpopular opinion, but I'm going to type it anyway even though I will get dogs abuse because of it:

The current problems at Manchester Utd. FC can be pretty much laid at the door of one man: Sir Alex Ferguson.

There are some (older) people on here who can't read any criticism of the man - but I sense younger fans are beginning to realise the truth: that if you build up an empire, but structure it in such a way that when you leave, it all falls apart - especially if you keep meddling in that empire - then there comes a point when questions should be asked. We are at that point now.

Who brought the Glazers to Utd? (due to a dispute over a blinking racehorse) 20 years ago.

Who made a phonecall in August, to Ronaldo, to get him to reject Man City and rejoin Utd. even though it has totally messed up Ole's project?

These two events bookend numerous other 'mistakes' from the great man: anointing Moyes as his successor, running down the clubs playing staff in the last 7-8 years of his reign and worst of all undermining the current manager week in, week out. Has the club learnt nothing from history? because this has happened before. Who sits in the stand waiting for the cameras to find him, shaking his head at 0-4 down, 'look at me, look at me - this wouldn't have happened in my day'? Well back in his day Utd. really only had one or two rivals, Arsenal & Chelsea and all the money to buy anyone they wanted and if he tried to manage a Club in 2021 the way he did back then, he'd soon be done for work-place bullying. People keep saying Ole is too nice to be successful, but in this day and age it doesn't work like that - the players have too much power for a start, but the poor guy has been undermined - he was actually making really good progress evolving the squad and then this Ronaldo thing has cocked that up and he will likely lose his job because of it.

Man Utd. should have thanked Sir Alex for his amazing success, but when he resigned, that should have been it. Think about other walks of life, once the head of any big business (and Utd. are a business) leaves, then the new people take control. To continue to go back to the previous leader, causes all sorts of issues and these are plain to see, when you look at Man Utd, today.
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I agree that his succession planning was not good, but I do not think that you can attribute many of the current issues to that. Simply too much time went by, that the owners should have used to find a good setup. It is as much their fault if SAF still has a nig influence on current operations.
 
JebelSherif said:
This is very unpopular opinion, but I'm going to type it anyway even though I will get dogs abuse because of it:

The current problems at Manchester Utd. FC can be pretty much laid at the door of one man: Sir Alex Ferguson.

There are some (older) people on here who can't read any criticism of the man - but I sense younger fans are beginning to realise the truth: that if you build up an empire, but structure it in such a way that when you leave, it all falls apart - especially if you keep meddling in that empire - then there comes a point when questions should be asked. We are at that point now.

Who brought the Glazers to Utd? (due to a dispute over a blinking racehorse) 20 years ago.

Who made a phonecall in August, to Ronaldo, to get him to reject Man City and rejoin Utd. even though it has totally messed up Ole's project?

These two events bookend numerous other 'mistakes' from the great man: anointing Moyes as his successor, running down the clubs playing staff in the last 7-8 years of his reign and worst of all undermining the current manager week in, week out. Has the club learnt nothing from history? because this has happened before. Who sits in the stand waiting for the cameras to find him, shaking his head at 0-4 down, 'look at me, look at me - this wouldn't have happened in my day'? Well back in his day Utd. really only had one or two rivals, Arsenal & Chelsea and all the money to buy anyone they wanted and if he tried to manage a Club in 2021 the way he did back then, he'd soon be done for work-place bullying. People keep saying Ole is too nice to be successful, but in this day and age it doesn't work like that - the players have too much power for a start, but the poor guy has been undermined - he was actually making really good progress evolving the squad and then this Ronaldo thing has cocked that up and he will likely lose his job because of it.

Man Utd. should have thanked Sir Alex for his amazing success, but when he resigned, that should have been it. Think about other walks of life, once the head of any big business (and Utd. are a business) leaves, then the new people take control. To continue to go back to the previous leader, causes all sorts of issues and these are plain to see, when you look at Man Utd, today.
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I've heard it all, it's all SAFs fault, not oles
 
stefan92 said:
I agree that his succession planning was not good, but I do not think that you can attribute many of the current issues to that. Simply too much time went by, that the owners should have used to find a good setup. It is as much their fault if SAF still has a big influence on current operations.
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I respectfully disagree because this new managerial appointment, or that new managerial appointment are all irrelevant if the structure (and finances) of the club are fundamentally flawed.

A phrase often heard in football (usually about a player) is the following: "x thinks he's bigger than the club". Unfortunately, in regards to Manchester Utd. one person does think they are bigger than the club & he is also well known for not being willing to accept advice:

See: https://www.goal.com/en/news/how-a-...ake-control-of-man/15kf9x1h3xy8a1gakygb2unhd6

“I think if that particular discussion over the horse had never taken place, we could be watching a very different Manchester United today,” football finance expert Kieran Maguire tells Goal.

Former club captain Roy Keane later revealed in his autobiography 'The Second Half' that he advised Ferguson to drop his case against Magnier, but to no avail.

“Somebody I met in Ireland had told me to tell him (Ferguson): 'You are not going to win this.' I mentioned it to him,” the retired Irish midfielder wrote.

“And I told him that I didn't think it was good for the club, for the manager to be in a legal dispute with shareholders.

“I felt I was entitled to say that. He was just a mascot for them. Walking around with this Rock of Gibraltar – 'Look at me, how big I am,' – and he didn't even own the bloody thing!"
 
Flytan said:
I've heard it all, it's all SAFs fault, not oles
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So you don't agree when I said a phone call made by SAF to Ronaldo swayed his decision to join Utd. in August? Or that Ronaldo has de-railed Ole's plans and possibly destabalised the dressing room?

Don't just half-read a comment and dismiss it because of your love for Utd's golden age, address my points please.
 
JebelSherif said:
This is very unpopular opinion, but I'm going to type it anyway even though I will get dogs abuse because of it:

The current problems at Manchester Utd. FC can be pretty much laid at the door of one man: Sir Alex Ferguson.

There are some (older) people on here who can't read any criticism of the man - but I sense younger fans are beginning to realise the truth: that if you build up an empire, but structure it in such a way that when you leave, it all falls apart - especially if you keep meddling in that empire - then there comes a point when questions should be asked. We are at that point now.

Who brought the Glazers to Utd? (due to a dispute over a blinking racehorse) 20 years ago.

Who made a phonecall in August, to Ronaldo, to get him to reject Man City and rejoin Utd. even though it has totally messed up Ole's project?

These two events bookend numerous other 'mistakes' from the great man: anointing Moyes as his successor, running down the clubs playing staff in the last 7-8 years of his reign and worst of all undermining the current manager week in, week out. Has the club learnt nothing from history? because this has happened before. Who sits in the stand waiting for the cameras to find him, shaking his head at 0-4 down, 'look at me, look at me - this wouldn't have happened in my day'? Well back in his day Utd. really only had one or two rivals, Arsenal & Chelsea and all the money to buy anyone they wanted and if he tried to manage a Club in 2021 the way he did back then, he'd soon be done for work-place bullying. People keep saying Ole is too nice to be successful, but in this day and age it doesn't work like that - the players have too much power for a start, but the poor guy has been undermined - he was actually making really good progress evolving the squad and then this Ronaldo thing has cocked that up and he will likely lose his job because of it.

Man Utd. should have thanked Sir Alex for his amazing success, but when he resigned, that should have been it. Think about other walks of life, once the head of any big business (and Utd. are a business) leaves, then the new people take control. To continue to go back to the previous leader, causes all sorts of issues and these are plain to see, when you look at Man Utd, today.
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Oh yes it’s Sir Alex and Ronaldo’s fault that Solskjaer is tactically inept and has zero coaching ability.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
He is a club legend as a player though, let's not try and damage his reputation as a player.

As a manager there's probably something to be said for that mindset though. The best players move because they want to play and develop, Ole was content on the bench and he let his love for the club essentially stunt his career - he was easily good enough to start for most top 4-6 clubs in Europe. If he never wanted to step outside his comfort zone as a player is it any wonder he's not hands on as a coach?
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When the best offer he got to leave was from Spurs, it was always better to stay put which was good for him and United of course.
 
We need to wait for the right manager to sack the existing one.

There is no perfect manager available. Everyone is a risk, when it comes to managers. You can plan for player transfers but manager hiring doesn't go as per the plan always. You don't need to wait for the right moment to sack anyone. If the results are bad and if the ship is sinking, fire the manager.
 
Rockets Redglare said:
Oh yes it’s Sir Alex and Ronaldo’s fault that Solskjaer is tactically inept and has zero coaching ability.
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This is so typical, people are twisting my words (or ignoring them). The Glazers/Rock of Gibraltar - what about that? Forget about Ole and his competence, I'm talking about the bigger picture going back 20 years.
 
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