Let’s talk DM

golden_blunder said:
Many fans still expecting a DM signing, you can see this in many transfer posts saying stuff like “still need to sign a DM” or “we could have had player X for DM but he joined..”

my interpretation of it is that I don't believe that we are even looking for a DM. We haven’t really been linked to any in a serious way, apart from a few early journalists punts when they had nothing to go on.

if Martinez signs I think it will be as a CB not DM. He’s already said that he doesn’t have the legs to play there in Holland never mind the PL.

i don’t think ETH intends to play with one as they will limit the play. He wants a midfield that is capable of holding the ball or playing quick incisive progressive play.

i strongly believe that his plan A is to have a pairing of DeJong - Eriksen

then possibly a 3rd number 8 type capable of going both ways

People think Eriksen will play 10 or RW, I don’t. I think he will play deep like scholes and use his brilliant range of passing with DeJong carrying the ball where possible to progress play.

Opinions?
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Sangare would be my choice now.
 
Telsim said:
Yeah, well, I disagree with this approach. Eredivise isn't the PL. There is a reason City, Chelsea and Liverpool play with a DM. More to the point, if we intend to keep playing with De Gea all the more reason we need a DM or our back four will get battered.

"Attack wins you matches, defense wins you titles" is what a great man once said. And we don't have a single defense-minded midfielder, forget about an actual DM. One is mandatory in my opinion and not going for a DM once again will be a mistake.
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Agreed. Our main problem last year was the record amount of goals that we conceded. Not signing a CDM and playing Eriksen De Jong seems like a bad idea. I assume that Ajax do not have to do a lot of defending in the Eredevise. But what do I know.
 
Thiagoal said:
Looking at the players we seem to be targeting I have a strong inclination that we will play 3-4-3 (or variation of). Martinez seems perfect for stepping up to make a 3 man midfield. It would then give De Jong and Eriksen the chance to play deep together and pull the strings.
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We'll no doubt three at the back during games because De Jong often drops into defence to start play but I don't think ten Hag will start with three centre backs.
 
I think people need to reconsider what they mean by DM. Fred or McTominay will be tasked with pushing up and trying to win the ball high. Not shielding the defence in the style of say Ndidi.

Pirlo and Kroos etc have often been the deepest midfielder in their teams but aren’t considered DM’s. They have had Casemiro and Gattuso pushing up, using their energy and tenacity to support the playmaker. I think we’ll do the same with FDJ deepest but a hard working, tackler doing a lot of the leg work.

The one benefit to bring in day FDJ is that Fred or McTominay can’t start, run themselves ragged for 60 mins and we can then bring the other one off the bench to do the same. When they played together at their best we often ended up hanging on for 20-30 mins as their energy dipped towards the end of games.
 
Here is what I think. Its undeniable that United have many gaps that need to be filled and a limited transfer budget to work with. Thus we will probably start the season with weaknesses in the team that will be addressed later on. However does ETH decide whether we need a DM more then let's say a CB? After all he's a new employee with barely any experience in coaching us.

In such circumstances the manager has no option but on relying on the football people within the club. Politics play a huge role in football especially in poorly ran clubs. That can be seen at our club. For example VDB was treated very differently to let's say Jones.

In my opinion United are fixated to make the McT project to work. The guy is quite popular among his peers, he's seen as a future United captain, he's a nice lad and he is a homegrown talent. Sure if Rice (ie English international and England's future captain) was available for the right price then the club might be willing to sacrifice McT. However we all know that its not the case. So I won't be surprised if the club will give McT another chance as first teamer especially since

a- we're probably signing De Jong whose decent defensively and who will take most of the passing duties away from McT.
b- we can still rely on Fred (Plan B) and Martinez (who played as a DM) if shits hit fan.

If an ancient Scholes and Carrick could win the league with Cleverley providing the leg work then surely De Jong and Bruno can make it to top 4 with McT stuck in the same role
 
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Cathy Ferguson said:
Agreed. Our main problem last year was the record amount of goals that we conceded. Not signing a CDM and playing Eriksen De Jong seems like a bad idea. I assume that Ajax do not have to do a lot of defending in the Eredevise. But what do I know.
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You don’t have to defend as much if you are attacking and keeping the ball better. That’s going to be the key.
 
golden_blunder said:
He’s not a very mobile seems to be a common criticism of him. Besides we haven’t been linked
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He is mobile and covers a lot of ground protecting the back four and his passing is very good also. Ten Hag should know him well and he could be available for 20/25 million euro. We probably have been linked but media haven't got it here yet.
 
sparx99 said:
You don’t have to defend as much if you are attacking and keeping the ball better. That’s going to be the key.
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Which is also why the search for a new central defender makes sense. They will need to be press resistant, good on the ball and intelligent.
 
Ibrahim Sangare: Manchester United and Chelsea interested in PSV and Ivory Cost midfielder
Ibrahim Sangare is believed to have a €35m release clause in his PSV contract, which has three years remaining; source close to the midfielder says he has his heart set on a move to England and is convinced he will be playing in the
  • Chelsea and Manchester United are interested in signing PSV midfielder Ibrahima Sangare this summer.
    Sangare is believed to have a €35m (£29.9m) release clause in his contract and has also been linked in the Dutch media with Liverpool and Newcastle.

  • A source close to the 24-year-old said the player has his heart set on moving to England and is convinced he will be a Premier League player next season.
    • Sangare joined PSV from Toulouse in September 2020 and has three years remaining on his deal with the Eredivisie club.
      The Ivory Coast international was a regular for PSV last season, playing 49 times in all competitions as Roger Schmidt's side won the Dutch cup, finished second to Erik ten Hag's Ajax in the league and reached the quarter-finals of the Europa Conference League.


      Sangare spent most of the season playing as the defensive midfielder in Schmidt's 4-3-3 formation, with the graphic below showing how he excelled in a number of key metrics.








      https://super6.skysports.com/?aff=11946&dcmp=SS_S6_football_promo_1509
 
In De Jong's own words:
“I think in my nature as a player, I want to receive the ball early in the play and to set up the play,” the midfielder told UEFA.com.

“I think that’s more my style of play than waiting for the ball and receiving it upfront, and touching the ball less,” he said.

“I think I feel more comfortable in the pivot position than high upfront, but I can also play high upfront. It doesn’t matter for me so much but, if I had to choose, I would rather play as a double pivot than, for example, as a ‘mediapunta’ (false nine).”
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And this is what Ten Hag had to say:
"His quality is that he makes the forwards perform better. He is a wanderer, an adventurer, he’s always on the move, like a shark. With the ball, often, but also without the ball. So if you put him on 6 [defensive midfield], he’s away too often. But you need to give him freedom, otherwise you can’t the best out of him.

"It wasn’t an easy puzzle, so I decided to play with two number 6s and only one attacking mid. And in this way, we can also dominate the half space, and force opponents to choose."
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It seems that ETH is likely to set us up in a way where the fullbacks are going to be more in the midfield than bombing down the wings, so if that's the case the signing of a DM isn't necessarily required.
 
I don’t mean to sound condescending but how can people have watched football for a number of years and think a midfield pairing of De Jong and Eriksen could work, in the Premier League no less. Come on.
 
Tavern in the town said:
I don’t mean to sound condescending but how can people have watched football for a number of years and think a midfield pairing of De Jong and Eriksen could work, in the Premier League no less. Come on.
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It's crazy, right? What makes it worse is that statman Dave, who is very knowledgeable when it comes to football, also thinks ten Hag could play that. It's a possibility, but I think he'd soon find out that it wouldn't work in the Premier League. I mean, he didn't even go with anything like that in the Eredivisie, so not sure why he'd start now.
 
BaillyBaillyBailly said:
ETH has explicitly said that FdJ cannot play as a DM multiple times. This he is clear on, he does not see De Jong as a DM.

I worry though now that Barcelona and De Jong are both making noises that De Jong will not move. We are therefore seeing rumours arise around other players like Paredes and Sangare.

I would actually kind of prefer Paredes/Sangare over De Jong at this stage because I think it would offer more balance to our team. If we need a ball carrying CM (which is what De Jong essentially is, that is his strongest attribute) then lets go all out for Tielemans who is available at a fraction of the price of De Jong (both in fee and wages).

Midfield 3 of Paredes/Sangare + Tielemans + Eriksen looks pretty strong to me.


(also don't be surprised to see Bruno play as a false 9 this season if Ronaldo goes)
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Well he didn’t exactly say this. He said De Jong is not a lone DM/6 and should be given some licence to get forward too. But that doesn’t mean he didn’t okay him as a 6/8 hybrid in a double pivot alongside another number 6/8. He didn’t play him as an attacking mid alongside a defence beast. Ten Hag is asking De Jong to play the Carrick role, read the game, mop up play and distribute possession.
 
Tavern in the town said:
I don’t mean to sound condescending but how can people have watched football for a number of years and think a midfield pairing of De Jong and Eriksen could work, in the Premier League no less. Come on.
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I’m not certain it would work either but can you honestly say if someone had said 5 years ago City will dominate with a midfield of De Bruyne, Bernardo and Rodri you’d have believed them? None of them can really defend.
 
TrustInJanuzaj said:
I’m not certain it would work either but can you honestly say if someone had said 5 years ago City will dominate with a midfield of De Bruyne, Bernardo and Rodri you’d have believed them? None of them can really defend.
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The difference is they’re all athletes (Bernardo is slender but he’s an absolute marathon runner and plays with real intensity.) Certainly don’t think we can expect anything similar from Eriksen.
 
Blood Mage said:
This is the first season since I can remember that we don't have a single specialist DM in the squad, and we're not seeing a single link to any on the market. Truly baffling.

I think the club is waiting for Rice next summer but that's just not a good enough excuse to go into yet another season with McFred and risk more spankings from City, Pool and fecking Brighton.
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Yeah not having one in the actual team has been the norm for a while, however now Matic has gone it applies to the squad too
 
Tavern in the town said:
The difference is they’re all athletes (Bernardo is slender but he’s an absolute marathon runner and plays with real intensity.) Certainly don’t think we can expect anything similar from Eriksen.
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De Bruyne is not that athletic in defence. No more so than Erikson in fact I’d say Erikson is more of a CM overall. Bruno has the same energy and workrate he would just need it to be applied and managed better by the coach just as Pep did with Bernardo. De Jong is similar to Rodri, all be it more energy but less defensive awareness. As I said I’m also not convinced it will work but I’m also not certain it wouldn’t under a manager like Pep.
 
Tavern in the town said:
I don’t mean to sound condescending but how can people have watched football for a number of years and think a midfield pairing of De Jong and Eriksen could work, in the Premier League no less. Come on.
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We're speculating on what we think we're going to do rather than whether it will work. There's no sign of a DM being signed.

The alternative to Eriksen alongside De Jong (assuming he signs) is McTominay or Fred. What you would lose out on on the ball quality with Eriksen you don't gain that much in defensive steel with the other two, with the idea to dominate the ball and avoid the issue.

No doubt it's a a high risk approach along with the rumoured 5ft 9" Martinez at CB.
 
TrustInJanuzaj said:
I’m not certain it would work either but can you honestly say if someone had said 5 years ago City will dominate with a midfield of De Bruyne, Bernardo and Rodri you’d have believed them? None of them can really defend.
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That's false. Rodri is akin to Carrick, Busquest, Alonso, etc. He doesn't sprint around the pitch tackling players but he reads the game well and has good positoning. Certainly better than De Jong.

If we had a holding midfielder next to Eriksen and Bruno, for example, then it wouldn't be that bad, but De Jong isn't a holding midfielder in the mould of Rodri.
 
Leftback99 said:
We're speculating on what we think we're going to do rather than whether it will work. There's no sign of a DM being signed.

The alternative to Eriksen alongside De Jong (assuming he signs) is McTominay or Fred. What you would lose out on on the ball quality with Eriksen you don't gain that much in defensive steel with the other two, with the idea to dominate the ball and avoid the issue.

No doubt it's a a high risk approach along with the rumoured 5ft 9" Martinez at CB.
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Who has won more aerial duels than all of our centre backs.
 
Tavern in the town said:
The difference is they’re all athletes (Bernardo is slender but he’s an absolute marathon runner and plays with real intensity.) Certainly don’t think we can expect anything similar from Eriksen.
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He covered the highest distance on the pitch against Spurs in April.
 
pcaming said:
It seems that ETH is likely to set us up in a way where the fullbacks are going to be more in the midfield than bombing down the wings, so if that's the case the signing of a DM isn't necessarily required.
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I think this is a real possibility. Shaw/Malacia are both seemingly better in the middle third rather than the defensive or attacking thirds. We'd just need to find a similar type for RB to make it work (Timber sounded like he could have been perfect).

I was watching a Youtube video about EtH's tactics at Ajax this season, and his use of inverted fullbacks was apparently a big feature of his system:


(The point is discussed at 2:55)
 
I think we are going to play Eriksen, Fred and McTominay in a 3 man midfield and then replace Fred or McTominay if we get De Jong. I think we will get a more defensive minded midfielder at some point, but maybe not this transfer window. If we get Eriksen and De Jong then it might be too much to change the whole midfield in the same transfer window.

Eriksen have historically played alongside midfielders with as limited passing abilities as McFred and i think that’s one of the reasons why we are about to sign him. Remember the Spurs midfield with players like Dembele, Vanyama, Dier and Sissoko. All players with the same limited passing ability as McFred. It’s the same with the Danish national team and with Brentford.

Adding Eriksen to McFred will give us a really good chance at getting back into the top four and CL and then adding players like De Jong on top of that will take us to the next level. Rome wasn’t build in a day and it’s the same with us. It’s not gonna happen in one transfer window.
 
Tavern in the town said:
The difference is they’re all athletes (Bernardo is slender but he’s an absolute marathon runner and plays with real intensity.) Certainly don’t think we can expect anything similar from Eriksen.
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Wondering why you say this? Eriksen puts in more yards than many in the PL
 
It's hard to predict what the manager is thinking. For all we know he could have a DM lined up but it's not considered priority signing as whoever it is would be available at the end of the window.

But I think you're right, my instinct is he's not looking for one. If you look at the profile of all his signings and those we are heavily in for, it is clearly to inject more technical quality through this side. From the back into midfield. I don't get the sense he would be interested in an Ndidi style DM that many on here would be pleased with. He will only do that if they offer ability in equal measure.

As for Eriksen, I am not sure. I think De Jong and Eriksen in midfield sounds like a weird operation, I don't know if that will work. But it'd be pretty interesting to find out.
 
PSG want to sell Paredes. Could he fit in in any role for us? How would people knowing him compare him to McTominay?
 
Idxomer said:
De Jong and Eriksen won't work, even Kroos and Modric didn't work great till they had Casemiro behind covering for them.
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Yes I agree.

De Jong and Eriksen would be good for keeping the ball but I don’t think the shape of the team will be right. We’ll either have a big gap between MF and the forwards or we’ll be too open. I could see us bossing possession but losing games. Added to that, I still think we need a proper physical specimen in there, preferably a highly motivated, streetwise leader of men.
 
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