Leonardo Bonucci | All discussion here please

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zlatan_ish said:
Great post. I see lot of arrogance among posters here.

Anyways, didn't he made a video saying that he is coming back in black and white?
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Dunno.

People along have to take into account whether a club can sign a similar player to him.

Bonucci is by far the best option they can realistically get for that role so spending that much money is worth it. In the Pogba deal, there are question marks over whether you can actually buy a cheaper alternative.
 
Brwned said:
Godin's been a rock in the best defensive club side of the last few years and Boateng's probably the best ball-playing centre back in world football. Very few people would consider Chiellini on the same level as them, never mind better.
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I entirely agree on your initial point about Boateng and Godin, I'm saying most wouldn't. Boateng is actually my favourite CB in the world, but he's too mistake-prone. Godin definitely is a top 3 cb, I only highlighted him by saying that Silva's absence was noteworthy (perhaps not clearly, I'm still half-asleep in bed!). So to clarify: not many would agree about the assessment on Boateng (as much as I personally disagree), and while Godin is elite, he's not the best CB in the world, as was suggested.
As for your latter point, I disagree that many wouldn't consider them close, but it's apples and oranges. In any list of the top current CBs, you'd probably get Hummels, Boateng, Chiellini, Bonucci, (I doubt you'd get Barzagli outside of Italian fans, due to many underrating Serie A, not to mention his age), Silva, Godin, Kompany, Ramos, Pique etc. I'm not saying I agree with all of those names, but those are probably the popular names. Chiellini is well worth a comparison to Boateng and Godin, I believe (even if he doesn't quite win).
 
Cascarino said:
While it's an incredible transfer fee, I think if City get him they become favourites for the league imo. They wasted a massive amount on Mangala, Otamendi was a disappointment as well, and combined they spent plenty on that duo. If they get Bonucci they'll have a bona fide top CB. It's still way too much money but that's not really a problem for them.
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That's probably it. They desperately need an absolutely world class centre back as a quick solution to a problem that has been a massive sore spot and a huge money drain over the past few seasons. Thiago Silva would fit the type of player Pep will be looking for, but is older and plays for a club that has absolutely no interest in selling while Chiellini and Godin are both older than Bonucci and more pure defenders, rather than ball-players. Bayern won't sell Boateng to anyone, Boateng probably doesn't want to go back anyway and Pep can't actually sign Bayern players to City as part of a contractual agreement, so that's extremely out of the question. Who else is left?

Pique is one. Pep might not want to raid his former club. Same age as Bonucci too.
Ramos? No way is Pep going to work with the current Mr. Real Madrid. Same age as Bonucci and probably more expensive.

That's it. That's all the absolute top-tier centre backs. If Bonucci is the best and/or cheapest available, City might just pay what it takes to get him, since they need him. It's completely mental, but it makes more sense than them buying more of the Mangalas and Stoneses of the world and getting nothing in return.
 
Red Stone said:
That's probably it. They desperately need an absolutely world class centre back as a quick solution to a problem that has been a massive sore spot and a huge money drain over the past few seasons. Thiago Silva would fit the type of player Pep will be looking for, but is older and plays for a club that has absolutely no interest in selling while Chiellini and Godin are both older than Bonucci and more pure defenders, rather than ball-players. Bayern won't sell Boateng to anyone, Boateng probably doesn't want to go back anyway and Pep can't actually sign Bayern players to City as part of a contractual agreement, so that's extremely out of the question. Who else is left?

Pique is one. Pep might not want to raid his former club. Same age as Bonucci too.
Ramos? No way is Pep going to work with the current Mr. Real Madrid. Same age as Bonucci and probably more expensive.

That's it. That's all the absolute top-tier centre backs. If Bonucci is the best and/or cheapest available, City might just pay what it takes to get him, since they need him. It's completely mental, but it makes more sense than them buying more of the Mangalas and Stoneses of the world and getting nothing in return.
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Good post. You've summed up the position City find themselves in pretty well
 
I was really looking forward to them spending £50m on Stones.
 
jungledrums said:
Actually I believe you'll find that mine is an opinion held by many Juventus fans. Not many would agree with your opinion on who's better than him (in regards to Boateng and Godin, no mention of candidates such as Silva)... It's not an outlandish claim to make; I don't hold an opinion that's in the minority. Chiellini is immense, and the best of the three. They all complement each other brilliantly, and if you have a preference for ball players then sure, bonucci wins. Age is a big factor too; Bonucci is the only one who'd command such a high transfer fee, but that is beside the point. At the fundamental art of defending, the other two are above him. Again, if you read my initial comment, you'd see that I rate all three very highly.
I find it funny that you call my opinion "strange", then make what many themselves would consider a strange opinion in return. Got your blinkers on?
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Notice the word "clearly" in my comment - I don't think that what Silva did in the last few years undoubtedly justifies a place ahead of Bonucci in my personal ranking. He is still in my top 5 though.

Can you share those opinions by Juventus fans? I tried to look for them at their biggest forum but my eyes started bleeding. Chiellini is very overrated by the general public, mostly because of his brutal and aggressive style (he's like a stupid Vidic, really); and "I believe" that you'll find this opinion held by many on here.

Found this post while lurking in the search of some comparison thread:
That's a good comparison, I'd say Bonucci is set apart from other defenders because he has excellent distribution ability as well as being a competent defender. I feel like part of the reason Chiellini is rated higher than Bonucci in some football circles is because Chiellini has been the best Juventus defender during their return from Serie B and also during their dark era of 2009-2011. Then personally, I felt alot of people prefer Chiellini because they recognize his name more, as he was the first Italian defender after the generation of Nesta, Maldini, Cannavaro, etc to gain international attention. You also have to consider that while Chiellini was playing first team football for Juve in 2006-2011, Bonucci was bouncing around on loan from Inter at smaller clubs like Pisa or Treviso.
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re: "strange". After your comment there are three that disagrees with you/put Bonucci in their top lists. And no one apart from you says that Chiellini is better. So who are those many (you aside) who will consider my opinion strange?
 
I hope Juve doesn't sell him to the Berties. He'd be a big signing for them and would immediately become the best CB in the PL.
 
top1whoisman said:
I think Kompany will play less than 10 matches next season and will call it quits next spring.
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If you're right, that just further increases City's need for a top quality CB. If Kompany's injury situation is bleak, that would go a long way towards explaining the money being offered for Bonucci.

It's pissing me off, to be honest. Bonucci was my muppet CB signing for the summer. I thought he would be gettable for around €30 million with Juve being stocked in the centre back department. Barzagli's on his way out, but Rugani's coming through and will be demanding a first team spot soon. With Chiellini and Caceres already in the mix and Benatia possibly coming in, that would be more than enough for the next few seasons, even without Bonucci.
 
Red Stone said:
If you're right, that just further increases City's need for a top quality CB. If Kompany's injury situation is bleak, that would go a long way towards explaining the money being offered for Bonucci.

It's pissing me off, to be honest. Bonucci was my muppet CB signing for the summer. I thought he would be gettable for around €30 million with Juve being stocked in the centre back department. Barzagli's on his way out, but Rugani's coming through and will be demanding a first team spot soon. With Chiellini and Caceres already in the mix and Benatia possibly coming in, that would be more than enough for the next few seasons, even without Bonucci.
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It was just a reply to a post saying Bonucci would pair up with Kompany if he joined City. We’re definitely still short on CBs, Jones & Rojo the 2rd and 4th option.
 
Red Stone said:
Pep can't actually sign Bayern players to City as part of a contractual agreement, so that's extremely out of the question.
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Good post but I'll just correct this bit as it's untrue. Pep signed following his contract expiring, so when would this clause have been inserted, even discounting any validity it would have? Bayern's CEO (I think that was the position) confirmed the rumour to be false. Plus, this is Bayern Munich, they are perfectly capable of telling City to feck off and we'd have a hard time persuading any of their regulars to join us.
 
Suedesi said:
Clear indication from La Stampa (Turin daily) that City have offered 60 million to Juventus to buy Bonucci. His agent is already in England to discuss the move. It's likely that if this goes through, Pogba won't move this year.

http://www.lastampa.it/2016/07/08/s...-scrivere-MVPchmXz8tDJvl20lLOatM/premium.html

http://www.lastampa.it/2016/07/07/s...-alla-juve-C0BvbSHe4yggZQvAXJR0iL/pagina.html
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Pirlo and Vidal both left during the same window did they not? One for free, sure. But despite Pirlo leaving on a free, they sold Vidal after that. Both those players were no less important than Pogba and Bonucci. An argument can be made that they were even more important. Did Tevez not alse leave that same window? Might be wrong on that one though.
 
RC89 said:
Pirlo and Vidal both left during the same window did they not? One for free, sure. But despite Pirlo leaving on a free, they sold Vidal after that. Both those players were no less important than Pogba and Bonucci. An argument can be made that they were even more important. Did Tevez not alse leave that same window? Might be wrong on that one though.
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I think it's a little different as Pirlo was getting older and they were looking to move forward from him, iirc they were resting him more and more in his final season. Vidal had some off the field issues and there were doubts over his knee (or some recurring injury) so it was easier for Juventus to move those two on than it would be Pogba and Bonucci. I think the money they'd get from Bonucci would help them fight off suitors for Pogba as well (imo).
 
CS@SG said:
Bonucci + Kompany pairing, this is insane.
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Definitely an incredible pair of centre backs. But Kompany is so injury prone, hopefully he's paired with Otamendi more often than not if he signs and he'll find a way to cock things up.
 
Cascarino said:
I think it's a little different as Pirlo was getting older and they were looking to move forward from him, iirc they were resting him more and more in his final season. Vidal had some off the field issues and there were doubts over his knee (or some recurring injury) so it was easier for Juventus to move those two on than it would be Pogba and Bonucci. I think the money they'd get from Bonucci would help them fight off suitors for Pogba as well (imo).
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You could very well be right, surely it'd make them less reluctant. But losing Tevez, Vidal and Pirlo in the same window for frees and not a record amount (Vidal) would have been a lot more palatable than losing Pogba and Bonucci for £160m. They could do so much with that money. And Pogba seems destined to move on, if not now then soon.
 
RC89 said:
You could very well be right, surely it'd make them less reluctant. But losing Tevez, Vidal and Pirlo in the same window for frees and not a record amount (Vidal) would have been a lot more palatable than losing Pogba and Bonucci for £160m. They could do so much with that money. And Pogba seems destined to move on, if not now then soon.
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Yeah that's a very good point. If Pogba pushes for a move then it will be very difficult for Juventus to hold on to him, while Pogba is a class player, if I was the manager at Juventus I would rather lose Pogba than Bonucci. Bonucci is the youngest of their three main starting CB's, and his skillset would be very hard to replace. Pogba is brilliant but if they get upwards of 80m for him, I'd sell.
 
Cascarino said:
Yeah that's a very good point. If Pogba pushes for a move then it will be very difficult for Juventus to hold on to him, while Pogba is a class player, if I was the manager at Juventus I would rather lose Pogba than Bonucci. Bonucci is the youngest of their three main starting CB's, and his skillset would be very hard to replace. Pogba is brilliant but if they get upwards of 80m for him, I'd sell.
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Yeah, no way they sell unless Pogba asks for the move. I actually think with the money theyd get for him, theyll genuinely be better off.
 
The deal with Pogba has to go through so that Juventus is not tempted to sell Bonucci to City. Otherwise he would instantaneously change their stupid defensive line and make it smarter and more skilled, which would be a problem for United.

So Ed, make the Pogba deal happen quick, and pull the rug out from under City for Bonucci.
 
harms said:
Notice the word "clearly" in my comment - I don't think that what Silva did in the last few years undoubtedly justifies a place ahead of Bonucci in my personal ranking. He is still in my top 5 though.

Can you share those opinions by Juventus fans? I tried to look for them at their biggest forum but my eyes started bleeding. Chiellini is very overrated by the general public, mostly because of his brutal and aggressive style (he's like a stupid Vidic, really); and "I believe" that you'll find this opinion held by many on here.

Found this post while lurking in the search of some comparison thread:


re: "strange". After your comment there are three that disagrees with you/put Bonucci in their top lists. And no one apart from you says that Chiellini is better. So who are those many (you aside) who will consider my opinion strange?
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You see I was of the opinion that Bonucci was their best CB too. Then I went to Italy and stayed with my friend, and his manic Juve-following family. They seemed very knowledgeable, and I was constantly shut down. Their idea was as follows: Bonucci is arguably the most vital to the 3 man back line, given he is the ball player, but he's not the "best" of the three. Naturally I had to see for myself, so I followed Juve a bit more, and I tend to agree. I'm not doubting his ability to adapt, or his ability at all in fact. I'm just putting Chiellini and Barzagli above, or at least in the same tier.

You're selectively replying to my comment. The opinion I was referring to was the absence of Silva and the inclusion of Boateng, which would not be a particularly widely held opinion on this forum. I don't disagree with you, for what it's worth, Boateng is my number 1, but that's beside the point. The point I am making is that you've missed Silva in your top 3 or so, yet he's still in your top tier. All 3 Juve players deserve to be there too. Essentially if we both listed the top tier of CB's, I imagine we'd produce a largely similar list, but it is the order that would be different, which is semantics, to be honest.

Admittedly I should've made this case a year ago, Bonucci had the most appearances (49) for Juve this season, and for the first 6 months was probably their best defender. Maybe the other half of my case is that he is the player he is entirely because of influence of the other two. I don't doubt he could perform without them, but I believe within that unit he is at his absolute best, and flourishes. The other two, I believe, are better pure defenders.

I can't produce forum quotes, I don't frequent Juve forums, it's all anecdotal stuff but I just found it so striking that in Italy, everytime we debated football, bonucci came third in the debate of those 3. (It wasn't just the same people over and over, I probably had this discussion with 10 or so different guys).

Lastly, without wanting to ramble on, Chiellini and barzagli aren't going to improve from here, given their age, and I of course believe Bonucci would be a great signing for their lot, but within their system I'm always most impressed, when it comes to pure defending, with Chiellini and Barzagli (Juve are so dominant in Serie A that the ball player is appreciated more, in my opinion, than the old-school defenders).
 
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Oo0AahCantona said:
It wont effect the Pogba move in my opinion, simply because both sums of money are too much to turn down. Every player has a price and both of these sums reflect that.
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But it just might. Pogba is young and it's not like his value will go down in the next 2-3 years. If they get 60m for Bonucci, they can re-invest in the squad and really go for CL over the next 2 seasons and still get the Pogba money.

However with Barzagli on his last legs and he being the youngest of the 3, they might not be too keen to sell him. It is possible they may want to keep him over Pogba and use the pogba money to really invest in the team.
 
Its better City stay with Stones, Bonucci not going to happen.
 
Brilliant defender. Would be devastated if they get him. He has it all really what a modern CB needs. You probably cant get a better CB these days
 
It's a lot of money given his age, but as most have mentioned already getting a top class centre back is hard work and he's a garaunteed class act. It's very similar to the Ramos situation with United last season - he'll either sign and it'll be a great buy or he'll sign a new contract at Juve.
 
Brwned said:
Godin's been a rock in the best defensive club side of the last few years and Boateng's probably the best ball-playing centre back in world football. Very few people would consider Chiellini on the same level as them, never mind better.
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It would be hilarious if City spent big money on Boateng after letting him go as a young player. How we'd all laugh at them!!!

As for City's defensive options, they have good defenders but not really the right style for Pep. He will clearly want ball playing centre backs and Bonucci would be a great fit for them.

As centre backs go Otamendi would be fantastic under Mourinho and Blind would be better suited to Pep.
 
POF said:
It would be hilarious if City spent big money on Boateng after letting him go as a young player. How we'd all laugh at them!!!

As for City's defensive options, they have good defenders but not really the right style for Pep. He will clearly want ball playing centre backs and Bonucci would be a great fit for them.

As centre backs go Otamendi would be fantastic under Mourinho and Blind would be better suited to Pep.
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Same situation come be happening at ManUtd.
 
Gasolin said:
The deal with Pogba has to go through so that Juventus is not tempted to sell Bonucci to City. Otherwise he would instantaneously change their stupid defensive line and make it smarter and more skilled, which would be a problem for United.

So Ed, make the Pogba deal happen quick, and pull the rug out from under City for Bonucci.
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This. If signing Pogba means Bonucci stays at Juve then it's a sweetener to the Pogba arrival. Would quite happily take both of them for United any day of the week.
 
29 y/o isn't bad for a top defender, especially an Italian one.. He'll have been too busy being Italian to have bothered running or training when he as younger, so many years left...sadly..

He's only 2.5 years older than Smalling, and Smalling's only just getting his shit together. There's usually only a small window when centre backs are physically and mentally in the right place, and 29-32 is probably the average peak.

Always hard to know how foreign defenders will adapt to English football, but on paper it's a proper signing for them...
 
Camilo said:
29 y/o isn't bad for a top defender, especially an Italian one.. He'll have been too busy being Italian to have bothered running or training when he as younger, so many years left...sadly..

He's only 2.5 years older than Smalling, and Smalling's only just getting his shit together. There's usually only a small window when centre backs are physically and mentally in the right place, and 29-32 is probably the average peak.

Always hard to know how foreign defenders will adapt to English football, but on paper it's a proper signing for them...
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Italian defenders dont really work in England because they are used to defending deep. Guardiola plays a high line so I can see Bonucci definitely taking time to adapt.

Completely different style of defending is needed in England than Italy but Bonucci is intelligent enough to adapt to it. I'm pretty sure he can play in almost any system he is that versatile.

I hope we don't sell him as he is at a very high level now and would be impossible to replace him.
 
I'd have Chiellini over Boateng every day of the week. Were does this notion come from that Boateng is some unbelievable passer of the ball? Did people watch the Euros? He often attempted the Steven Gerrard hollywood type long diagonal passes and hardly ever found his target. His slack passing also nearly lead to goals being conceded.

As for Bonucci, people are quoting £60m, where from? Reports I've read range from £43m(Sky Sports) and £51(papers). £43 million for one of the best defenders in the world, who's contract with Juventus runs until 2020. Seems a pretty fair price regardless that he's 29.
 
It would trounce all of our brilliant signings if City did pull this off :(
 
Brwned said:
Godin's been a rock in the best defensive club side of the last few years and Boateng's probably the best ball-playing centre back in world football. Very few people would consider Chiellini on the same level as them, never mind better.
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Is he? There is a very strong argument that he isn't the best ball playing CB in his team now.

There is probably something wrong with me, but I have yet to understand the Boateng hype. Sure a very good defender, but gets skinned to often and makes too many mistakes. Personally, I rate all three Juve's CB higher, as I do with Hummels, Ramos, Pique, Godin and Thiago Silva. So, I would put him around the bottom of top 10 CB list.

I agree that Godin is the best CB in the world.
 
Mark_Barca said:
I'd have Chiellini over Boateng every day of the week. Were does this notion come from that Boateng is some unbelievable passer of the ball? Did people watch the Euros? He often attempted the Steven Gerrard hollywood type long diagonal passes and hardly ever found his target. His slack passing also nearly lead to goals being conceded.

As for Bonucci, people are quoting £60m, where from? Reports I've read range from £43m(Sky Sports) and £51(papers). £43 million for one of the best defenders in the world, who's contract with Juventus runs until 2020. Seems a pretty fair price regardless that he's 29.
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Alongside Xhaka, he made the most successful long passes in the tournament (11.5 per game). Most people could see that from watching the Euros.
 
Gol123 said:
2) I was under the impression Juve played a back 4 under Allegri
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They've started last season with 3-5-2 and lost first 2 games. After that Allegri changed formation to 4-4-2 and their early season crisis unfolded. In last weeks of November he switched it back to 3-5-2 setup and since then they've never looked back.
 
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