Ronaldo and Messi is a very important reason.
La liga teams and how they make it such an easy ride for real and Barca domestically.
La liga teams and how they make it such an easy ride for real and Barca domestically.
Last 4 CL-winners are Real & Barca
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran are here to talk about a frustrating 2 points dropped at Crystal Palace. They then discuss the regeneration of Old Trafford. Finally, Nik is joined by special guest Michael Statham from the Football Oranje podcast - who gives us a more in depth look at our EL opposition FC Twente, and then runs through the (many) Dutch connections currently at United.
The sooner the Spanish dominance in Europe end, the better. For fans of teams in any other league it's becoming disheartening to watch. They are too far ahead of anyone else in world club football, it isn't healthy.
Last 7 La liga titles are all won by clubs from Spain too, their dominance is ridiculous.
Wait until messi and ronaldo decline then there will be an even playing field. Those two martians are the difference
They are the difference. Everyone other team has to wait until their decline then it will be an even playing field
The way some people underrate La Liga is ridiculous imo.
Take RM and Barcelona and put them in the EPL and they would still walk with the League title 9 out 10 times. Their class is atleast 1 level above anyone else right now.
Then someone could argue that the teams quality overall of the EPL is just better, and then I would ask if its better why is Man Utd the first non-spanish team to win a European title since Chelsea ECL win back in 11/12 while the spanish teams have something like 7 or 8 european titles during the same time.
I do rate the EPL as a better league overall because its more balanced but there's no way in hell La Liga is under EPL in terms of quality of the teams. Team quality wise, even "second tier" teams like Sevilha or Atletico Madrid would be legit contenders to the EPL title if they played there. Yes I know, its harsh to call Atletico a second tier team but they took a step backwards this season and it doesn't look like they are gonna get back to the same form they had anytime soon.
Take RM and Barcelona and put them in the EPL and they would still walk with the League title 9 out 10 times. Their class is atleast 1 level above anyone else right now.
Then someone could argue that the teams quality overall of the EPL is just better, and then I would ask if its better why is Man Utd the first non-spanish team to win a European title since Chelsea ECL win back in 11/12 while the spanish teams have something like 7 or 8 european titles during the same time.
I do rate the EPL as a better league overall because its more balanced but there's no way in hell La Liga is under EPL in terms of quality of the teams. Team quality wise, even "second tier" teams like Sevilha or Atletico Madrid would be legit contenders to the EPL title if they played there. Yes I know, its harsh to call Atletico a second tier team but they took a step backwards this season and it doesn't look like they are gonna get back to the same form they had anytime soon.
Argentina reached two major finals in a row on the back of Messi while we know about Portugal.
That's the last three major international tournaments and we were a Higuain bottle job away from having all three competition won by a Messi / Ronaldo side.
Well I mean, I don't see the other 17 teams in La Liga getting to the semis/final of the CL...
Tell me SUP doesn't stand for the Super Cup. No shit there's gonna be a Spanish winner of that if both the CL and EL winners were Spanish teams...
You know you cant compare what Argentina and Portugal do on the international stage to what Barca and Madrid do in club football, so why bother?
I agree.
I remember discussing this once or twice over the years and I was just talking to Italian friend about this other day.
The TV deals that allowed RM and Barca to cannibalize the rest of La Liga in the last 20 years was probably worse for the balance of world football than anything else in the last 20 years including the sugar daddies. Here is an old article from 2013 where you have Real receiving 140M from TV money while Granada only gets 12M. That massive inequality in La Liga had been going on for a decade. So the result was Barcelona and Real Madrid cannibalizing the rest of La Liga during the 2000s and 2010s. That massive boost in resources those two teams received during this period is really what set the prices for players skyrocketing. Both RM and Barca spent a lot of 2001-2010 tapping up and poaching the stars of other leagues not just La Liga. They could accomplish because their massive competitive advantage in La Liga provided a financial advantage that no other league's teams could match - until the rise of the sugar daddies. And even then it was the unbalanced money of RM and Barca that set the price point the sugar daddies began operating around. This effect has been hidden a little by Sevilla and Atletico both having a team in place that massively outperformed any metrics. They will both come down to earth shortly. Ultimately I hope things change soon as I have to say the 2010s has been by far the most boring decade for me for European Club Football with the dominance of the two cannibal sides from Spain.
TV deals have been increasingly becoming more fair. Barça earned this year 149 milions euros (chelsea will win 153 million pounds this year, in order to compare) . The last one earned 42 Million, a bit around 3.5 times less (last in England will win 97M) . The difference is big but is shortening.
What's more, TV deals are not everything. English top clubs can fully compete economically with the Spanish top teams. And as shown in the Bundesliga, a fair TV deal does not ensure competitiveness of the league.
hahahaha
Sure now. But the damage has already been done. Aince 2000 RM and Barca have received roughly the equivalent of Roman Abramovich 1b investment into Chelsea through their unfair tv deals
But unlike the sugar daddies spending their own cash, RM and Barca competitive advantage directly inhibited all their competitors which amplified the advantage they received at a time when global media emerged
I also don't get why super cups / community shields are suddenly considered "real" trophies. We used to make fun of the Scousers for this kind of thinking.
Well I mean, I don't see the other 17 teams in La Liga getting to the semis/final of the CL...
oh yeah and how many PL ones get in Semi/Final of the CL while Spanish teams win it. shot yourself in both feet
We are not far away from those teams on paper.
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You are. Not even close. Only De Gea maybe would get in the starting eleven for Madrid. With Barca maybe Pogba too, but furthermore both teams have far more quality.
There's no doubting Madrid and Barca are miles ahead of us, or anything other English team right now but I feel as if the gap will close in the coming years. Oursevles and Man City are undergoing rebuilding by two of the top 3 managers on the planet, with plenty of cash to go around. Klopp could do well with Liverpool in Europe, and Chelsea are probably the best equipped right now to go the furthest as it stands.
I don't think it's anything to be ashamed of though. The last time Real Madrid won the CL before 2014, was 2002. Before 2008 Barca had only 2 European triumphs to their name. It's only recently both sides have asserted their dominance, otherwise even English teams were doing much better. I don't think it's a cyclical thing, but the English teams were poor at sustaining strong teams. Liverpool fell off after they began finishing 8th etc. in the League. We fell off after SAF retired. City are new, and Chelsea have not helped themselves with constant managerial changes. Chelsea have won in 2012 and gotten to a SF recently though. Spurs are brand new boys, and Arsenal are underachievers in Europe. I think English teams will re-emerge as serious contenders soon. If anyone should be disappointed it's Bayern, they hoover up all the talent in their league yet have fallen short in very recent times.
As for the Europa, I don't think it's ever meant much till now. English teams in the Europa have always fared badly for various reasons, but mostly because they would want to prioritise their league campaign. Now we are seeing the opposite with ourselves and Liverpool actually forsaking the league for the Europa which was otherwise unheard of. Consequently both teams got to the final. English teams will at the very least, begin taking the Europa more seriously as there is now a top 6, but only 4 domestic places for the CL. English teams will produce better results in the Europa from now on I'd expect.
I don't think it's anything to be ashamed of though. The last time Real Madrid won the CL before 2014, was 2002. Before 2008 Barca had only 2 European triumphs to their name. It's only recently both sides have asserted their dominance, otherwise even English teams were doing much better. I don't think it's a cyclical thing, but the English teams were poor at sustaining strong teams. Liverpool fell off after they began finishing 8th etc. in the League. We fell off after SAF retired. City are new, and Chelsea have not helped themselves with constant managerial changes. Chelsea have won in 2012 and gotten to a SF recently though. Spurs are brand new boys, and Arsenal are underachievers in Europe. I think English teams will re-emerge as serious contenders soon. If anyone should be disappointed it's Bayern, they hoover up all the talent in their league yet have fallen short in very recent times.
As for the Europa, I don't think it's ever meant much till now. English teams in the Europa have always fared badly for various reasons, but mostly because they would want to prioritise their league campaign. Now we are seeing the opposite with ourselves and Liverpool actually forsaking the league for the Europa which was otherwise unheard of. Consequently both teams got to the final. English teams will at the very least, begin taking the Europa more seriously as there is now a top 6, but only 4 domestic places for the CL. English teams will produce better results in the Europa from now on I'd expect.
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I would say we are quite far from Real Madrid.
But apart from the front 3, I would agree for Barca. De Gea in as GK, Valencia at RB, Bailly over Umtiti. Pogba would get into that midfield, and there's also a decent shout for Herrera too. I think Barca rely too much on the quality of their front 3, which is fine in most cases as it's a ridiculously good front 3. But overall they have failed to sign adequate replacements to losing key players for me. Obviously having MSN still sets them as a team a couple of tiers above us, but in defensive and midfield positions I don't think we are too far behind.
You are talking like irreversible damage has been done. Spanish teams will get increasingly better, cause money will bring them more options, and they won't have to sell their players to the English teams.
This can't be a serious post...
Rival fan?
Pogba, Herrera, Mata, Valencia, Rojo, Bailly, Mkhitaryan, Blind wouldn't look out of place in those sides. In fact I could see Blind, Herrera and Mata in a Barcelona team. Every team would have Pogba. Anyone who disagrees with that doesn't know football.
Latin teams dominated from 1955-1970, then England/Netherlands/Germany from 70 to 84. Since then you can't really call dominance from any region. With the huge influx of money into English football, I'm sure, there will be another wave of finals for English teams like from 2005-2012. You can't go wrong every time, from multiple clubs.
To be fair, he said starting eleven.
This is the transfer list for last 5 seasons (from summer 2012). When is "soon"? One year, three, five years, or simply until you start winning again, even if it takes 10 more years and 10 times the money Spanish clubs will spend in that period?
Juventus starting 11 in CL final game cost them more then what Real paid for their starting 11.
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I am just a football fan.
They are good players, but not Barcelona/Madrid starting quality. They would be fringe players there. Valencia would look the most out of place, as his game intelligence is just too low. Pogba could maybe play over Raketic at Barca, but that is a big if imo. At Real Madrid he cant get near Kroos, Modric or Isco.
Who would Mata Blind and Herrera bench exactly? Mata is a CM or played out wide and he won't bench Messi who "occupies" the RW and comes inside so that's one. Herrera might start for Barcelona if their mf is used as a buffer for the full backs again, if Ernesto V is going back to using the mf in a classic Barcelona way, Herrera would be a bench player. Blind, who? At full back he won't bench Alba, He wouldn't start over either Umtiti or Pique and he wouldn't even get close to Busquets so no. Pogba is the only one that would walk into Barcelona's XI regardless. Herrera depending on the system, Mata and Blind have no chance of starting.
As for Madrid, none of those players including Pogba would walk into Madrid's XI at this moment in time.
Cant get near? You're kidding right? He would be a starter at Madrid. That's why they wanted him last season. He is a more complete midfielder than Kroos and Isco and to be honest I wouldn't swap Pogba for any of the three (Although I'd like to see Kroos here)
Valencia was linked to Madrid when Mourinho was managing them. He chose United. He would certainly not look out of place in those sides as he is one of the best RBs in the game. Barcelona don't even have a RB. He would definitely get games over Sergi Roberto.
But it's pointless arguing this anyway. There's quite a few Barca and Madrid players I wouldn't have at United as well. It's not like every single one of their players would be welcome here. Would you have Roberto, Umtiti, Mathieu, Rakitic, Turan, etc? I wouldn't. They wouldn't be good fits at United. Just like the likes of Rashford and Rooney in his prime wouldn't be a good fit for them. Doesn't mean they're not class players. Could you see Scholes, Giggs, Neville at those clubs? I couldn't. And they are 3 of our best players ever.
I fancy us against any of the top sides. We're about 4 signings away from dominance. We just need a new CB to replace Smalling/Jones, a DM to replace Carrick, a ST to replace Ibra and a good pacey winger. Then we're sorted. The squad we have now is good save for a few deadwood.
Blind could easily do the Mascherano role at Barcelona. He's got the passing range and can clearly play as a CB/CDM like Mascherano.
Herrera would slot in at CM over Rakitic and the aging Iniesta.
Mata could be similar to what Giuly was. Personally I think he could play in a midfield 3 as a CM. His defensive qualities have improved drastically since joining United.
Not sure if you were addressing me or both so apologies if not but I didn't say anything about Pogba at Madrid. Fwiw I do think he would get into their midfield. I think of our players only DDG and Pogba would be good enough to displace their respective players in RM's starting XI. None of the rest are good enough (though that doesn't make them bad). I agree Valencia is world class, and most definitely in the top few RB's in the world. However Carvajal is arguably the best RB in the world right now.
Out of those players again I agree our players could match them or even better them. Hence I said defensively and in the midfield we are not far off Barca. Maybe with a few good additions we could be equal or even better. Bailly would displace Umtiti/Mathieu. Pogba over Rakitic and Valencia over Roberto. However RM is a different matter. They don't have MSN, but are much stronger across the whole team. Our defence doesn't stand up to Ramos, Varane, Carvajal and Marcelo. Pogba would get into their midfield, absolutely. We can't touch their front 3 though.
We're closer to Barca than we are Madrid, but we're still far off because MSN is just that good. BBC is not quite as good as MSN, but still far superior to our attack. We have a long way to go on paper, even before showing any semblance of a coherent team.
Complete as in big, strong, fast etc. It doest mean anything. In sides like barca and real your quality on the ball is what counts. Pogba obviously isnt only a great athlete, he is also a great footballer. But he isnt as good on the ball as kroos or Isco. He isnt as good of a cm as kroos or an attacking midfielder as isco. So he would sit on the bench.
I am not impressed with Valencia. Very one dimensional. Very strong and fast player, but lacks quality on the ball. And I doubt many people outside united would rate him as one of the best rbs in the game.
Based on what ? I get that Bailly is highly rated by United fans but surely a little too much ? He still has everything to prove.
If all those United players are that good that they can walk into Barca and Real teams then they wouldn't have finished in 6th in the EPL IMO.
Real and Barcelona have been able to dominant because they both have one of the best players that has ever lived.
On top of that everything in Spain is put to their favour from the TV deals to the Spanish government loaning Real money to buy Bale. How many stories have come out from Barcelona regarding tax evasion but not a single person is prosecuted? Even their transfer bans meant nothing, Barcelona just pre signed players for January. Real did similar.
They are able to buy any player from any club in La Liga bar maybe Atletico so they just weaken their own league rivals. Even Balague has mentioned how much Real's substitutes have played their part in La Liga this season so their best players are always fit and fresh for the Champions League. This is not a luxury that happens in the Premier League.
Add to that the favourable refereeing decisions in big knock out games. You do need a slice of luck to win knockout trophies but how many times do they cheat and get away with it? Barcelona vs PSG, two very soft penalties, Ramos in the final diving to get Cuadrado booked, a dodgy red card and two offside goals in the semi finals vs Bayern? That is just this season. This has happened all the way back to when Barcelona beat Chelsea in 2009. I know this 'excuse' use to get labelled at United but it's unbelievable how the referees fool at for their diving year after year.
On top of that everything in Spain is put to their favour from the TV deals to the Spanish government loaning Real money to buy Bale. How many stories have come out from Barcelona regarding tax evasion but not a single person is prosecuted? Even their transfer bans meant nothing, Barcelona just pre signed players for January. Real did similar.
They are able to buy any player from any club in La Liga bar maybe Atletico so they just weaken their own league rivals. Even Balague has mentioned how much Real's substitutes have played their part in La Liga this season so their best players are always fit and fresh for the Champions League. This is not a luxury that happens in the Premier League.
Add to that the favourable refereeing decisions in big knock out games. You do need a slice of luck to win knockout trophies but how many times do they cheat and get away with it? Barcelona vs PSG, two very soft penalties, Ramos in the final diving to get Cuadrado booked, a dodgy red card and two offside goals in the semi finals vs Bayern? That is just this season. This has happened all the way back to when Barcelona beat Chelsea in 2009. I know this 'excuse' use to get labelled at United but it's unbelievable how the referees fool at for their diving year after year.
Probably based on the fact that Bailly is actually very good and Umtiti is is a tad overrated.
How is Pogba not as good on the ball as Isco or Kroos? He delivers picture perfect passes and I've seen him beat and out strengthen two, three players a bunch of times. That's a lie!
Non United fans hate United. That's why. Proper neutrals who watch every game would see Valencia is arguably the leagues best RB. The stats don't lie. The only reason anyone wouldn't consider him as such is because he's a converted RB and maybe not as flashy and "new" as someone like Bellerin. Who I also rate but to be honest Valencia is much more intelligent, reliable and experienced at this point in time. He very rarely makes a mistake.
I would say Ibra is a better striker than Benzema but considering we might not give him a new deal due to the injury, I wouldn't disagree that the two teams have a much better attack than us.
We need to get a top class striker to replace Ibra and I think Lukaku is the only one that fits the mound. He's strong, tall and physical like Zlatan and he can bang the goals in. Plus he's friends with Pogba so the chemistry between the two is there. It's a no brainier to sign him considering Jose worked with him before. He can be his new Drogba.