They have two of the best players of all time, it is genuinely hard to compete.
Last 4 CL-winners are Real & Barca
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran are here to talk about a frustrating 2 points dropped at Crystal Palace. They then discuss the regeneration of Old Trafford. Finally, Nik is joined by special guest Michael Statham from the Football Oranje podcast - who gives us a more in depth look at our EL opposition FC Twente, and then runs through the (many) Dutch connections currently at United.
Then Portugal and Argentina would be dominating international football. it's more than that, these teams have squads that are unreal right now. Even without those two they be the best teams in the world, you add them then most CL fixtures are a formality.
Portugal won the last Euros and Argentina were a Higuain bottle job from winning the last WC. Didn't they also reach a Copa final since then?
The state of football when world-class players would rather waste away on the bench on a stacked team than join another squad with practically guaranteed starting roles.
They were the first to spend and get to the level epl woke up after fergie retirement because spending was against his principles.
We will catch up soon.
We can beat lecicster unlike SevillaI certainly do not want to see us in 3rd place after the CL group stage.
Yep the likes of isco assensio Theo hernandez joining them for mediocre money in the league while our Ali's Kane Lukakus is costing millions
IYeah I mean great weather and guaranteed trophies sounds like too lucrative an offer for most players. But the fact is they can stack there bench with a vast array of talent and not struggle to keep them happy. You build a Squad in England and your players like your Girouds Milners heck even the less talented ones won't accept bench roles. They'll run contracts down and want assured playing time. Look how hard it is to truly prise even the unwanted ones away , Di Maria didn't want to move , James likely too. There's been rumblings about Isco for a few years now but even he always ends up staying despite clubs like City and Spurs being linked.
Whilst I do feel the managerial talent in the PL should be a telling equaliser in the next few years we do need to produce top class English players coupled with success, to have periods of dominance and build squads like the big Spanish two have.
I may be naive but I think most players would rather be starters at the likes of United or Chelsea than warm the bench at Madrid or Barça. Thing is, these guys probably believe they can be starters at Madrid and Barça, and as such they take the risk and challenge of going there. They are naturaly competitive or else they wouldn't be top level sportsmen. You often see them wanting to leave after realizing things aren't going as expected. See Di María, Robben, arguably James, etc.
I have always felt the same.
First to spend first to dominate. And of course Messi and Ronaldo are the shining cheryy on the top.
Juve, PSG, Bayern, etc have great squads too. The key difference is Cristiano and Messi almost guarantee goals like no other players in history.
'Spanish' domination. Only Ramos, Carvajal and Isco are Spanish.
Ridiculous
And Pique, Busquets and Iniesta were the only Spanish starters on Barca's last one.
Let's hope the next CL winner will be Real or Barca as well... Or...maybe...let's hope not.
Epl has not done well on the uel front because of the top 4 race in epl. Now that uel winner gets ucl qualification epl teams are destined to do well in uel.
In ucl epl teams are about to step up soon with the spending power and top managers and Philosophies. Real and Barca enjoyed biggest spending power and were first to it because of their league distribution money.
Only Juventus has done well silently in Italy without spending the insane amount.
In ucl epl teams are about to step up soon with the spending power and top managers and Philosophies. Real and Barca enjoyed biggest spending power and were first to it because of their league distribution money.
Only Juventus has done well silently in Italy without spending the insane amount.
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The rivalry between Real Madrid and Barcelona is just that big they keep pushing themselves each season no matter what and I think both clubs having the best two players in the world has just pushed Spanish football to this dominant level in both nation and club level.
I think English team should be able to catch them with all their resources and infrastructure but they also need their players to go abroad in different leagues. Even if they can gain a lot of money in their local league they should go out of their comfort zone.
I think English team should be able to catch them with all their resources and infrastructure but they also need their players to go abroad in different leagues. Even if they can gain a lot of money in their local league they should go out of their comfort zone.
We have seen Italy do well in Club and International Football with almost none of their top players going abroad.
The coaching in England at grass root levels must be top class . The culture does not help one bit.
They've done well but not to the extent of Spain's recent success although you might be right in the case of England but still whether they keep playing on England something has to change to push the players to the next level. Maybe with Guardiola and Mourinho it all could change, at least next UCL campaign should be very interesting with the likes of City, Chelsea, Liverpool and Manchester United.
I have always felt it was a grassroots problem but, the fact that we lead the league in given minutes to youth players and most of our minutes were given to one player(Rashford) shows PL clubs are probably not doing a good enough job giving young players a chance.
Remember back in 09 when United were one of the top teams in Europe and Real were nowhere?
Then we sold them Ronaldo and replaced him with Valencia.
Tide has been turning since that day. Hope it turns back our way again.
Then we sold them Ronaldo and replaced him with Valencia.
Tide has been turning since that day. Hope it turns back our way again.
Leaving Bayern out of it, would you take any of those other teams' squads over a Messiless barca or a Ronaldoless madrid?
Please tell me you're not comparing the success of Argentina and Portugal to that of Barca and Madrid. it's not even in the same ball park.
At least we stopped the mighty Celta Vigo...
Yes we lost benzema ozil modric and varane lost hazard moura bale kroos sanchez Vidal Thiago and Renato and now Bernardo Silva . Memphis dint live up to expectations and martial struggled to cope this year.
Even griezmann is not coming this summer.
This market is huge for us now.
The problem is that premier league TV money isn't great for us as people make it out to be. Yes we get loads but so do the other teams around us. That leads to the games here being more competitive and you rarely can rest players. There are very few easy games.
Where as La Liga and Bundesliga the three clubs that dominate get the most TV money.
Back when the prem dominated there were four clubs and the rest of the premier league were miles behind. Fergie used to rotate his team for fun between champions league games and get results.
The prem clubs will be back though. Before Mourinho came along, Madrid couldn't make it past the last 16 for five years running and Liverpool beat them like 5-0.
Where as La Liga and Bundesliga the three clubs that dominate get the most TV money.
Back when the prem dominated there were four clubs and the rest of the premier league were miles behind. Fergie used to rotate his team for fun between champions league games and get results.
The prem clubs will be back though. Before Mourinho came along, Madrid couldn't make it past the last 16 for five years running and Liverpool beat them like 5-0.
The rest were miles behind this season.
Yeah and yet on any given day any team can beat anybody in the premier league.
That wasn't the case back then.
Rest won't make Fellaini or Herrera magically better than Kroos and Modric, or Valencia better than Ronaldo and so forth.
It's just a quality of signings that the big 2 in Spain can make.
Congrats to Chelsea, Inter, and Bayern for somehow managing to win the Champions League in the past 10 years without having either one of Messi or Ronaldo in your team.
Because with every passing year that looks like ridiculously difficult feat to achieve. Pep's Bayern was world class in every position and a well-oiled machine. That game against Atletico was some of the best football I've ever seen (in the first half). But they didn't have a Ronaldo or Messi on their team, someone who gave them that extra cutting edge needed to win the CL.
Because with every passing year that looks like ridiculously difficult feat to achieve. Pep's Bayern was world class in every position and a well-oiled machine. That game against Atletico was some of the best football I've ever seen (in the first half). But they didn't have a Ronaldo or Messi on their team, someone who gave them that extra cutting edge needed to win the CL.
Real and Barcelona play much better football than any of the English teams. You just need to watch Real vs Barca and Chelsea vs Spurs. It's like a different sport.
This. Ball control, first touch, passing, looks like the Spanish duo are heads and shoulders above any English team.
Like I said in the "real is first team to win back to back CL" thread, it is very hard to compete against those two Spanish teams because they have a lot of factors in their favour. From location, lifestyle and weather to sharing language and cultural aspects with countries that often produce the majority of top players. They also compete in a two horse league that has a crazy disparity in revenue distribution, which in recent times has resulted in both of those clubs very rarely through barren spells trophy wise, as well as being loaded. This affects perception in a positive way for them. Then there's the fact that historically they have had some of the greatest players ever and currently have what's generally accepted as the two best players in the world being supported by all star casts.
There are clubs in Europe that tick some of those factors but they likely don't tick them all like Real or Barca. Like for example the Italian clubs have lifestyle, location and weather going for them, but they probably don't have the same money and exposure.
English clubs have exposure and money, and the ones located in London have that going for them as well, but they compete in a league that has like 6 legitimate title contenders so there are more chances of spells without trophies. There's also the different culture and language to take in consideration for some overseas players as well as cold/rainy weather. And with so many power clubs in one league it means no one club has a monopoly when it comes to the best domestic talent, United used to have an edge regarding this but it's been long gone.
Bayern has a monopoly over the bundesliga both monetarily and competitive and it's no surprise they are competitive in Europe and manage to attract majority of domestic top talent and some from overseas but they compete in a league most people don't care about.
So yeah, majority of clubs in Europe don't tick the boxes Real and Barca do or at least not as many, and this results into pretty much every player on the planet wanting to play for them, they get those players and win trophies, which boosts their prestige even further and makes them the de facto clubs to play for. It is a very hard cycle to compete against let alone break.
Edit - credit has to also be given to their academies.
There are clubs in Europe that tick some of those factors but they likely don't tick them all like Real or Barca. Like for example the Italian clubs have lifestyle, location and weather going for them, but they probably don't have the same money and exposure.
English clubs have exposure and money, and the ones located in London have that going for them as well, but they compete in a league that has like 6 legitimate title contenders so there are more chances of spells without trophies. There's also the different culture and language to take in consideration for some overseas players as well as cold/rainy weather. And with so many power clubs in one league it means no one club has a monopoly when it comes to the best domestic talent, United used to have an edge regarding this but it's been long gone.
Bayern has a monopoly over the bundesliga both monetarily and competitive and it's no surprise they are competitive in Europe and manage to attract majority of domestic top talent and some from overseas but they compete in a league most people don't care about.
So yeah, majority of clubs in Europe don't tick the boxes Real and Barca do or at least not as many, and this results into pretty much every player on the planet wanting to play for them, they get those players and win trophies, which boosts their prestige even further and makes them the de facto clubs to play for. It is a very hard cycle to compete against let alone break.
Edit - credit has to also be given to their academies.
It's a prefect storm for Madrid and Barca at the moment as they have the best two players and they can pretty much pick the eyes out of every league including their own.
For an English club there are so many obstacles that will continue.
To come to England you need to add the following to a European or Sth American's wage:
Weather tax 10%
Language tax 10%
No CL guarantee tax 10%
Then for the teams not in London
Not-London tax 10%
Look at someone like Morata on 80k at RM, will probably move to Milan for 130k, to get him to England would probably take 200k.
For an English club there are so many obstacles that will continue.
To come to England you need to add the following to a European or Sth American's wage:
Weather tax 10%
Language tax 10%
No CL guarantee tax 10%
Then for the teams not in London
Not-London tax 10%
Look at someone like Morata on 80k at RM, will probably move to Milan for 130k, to get him to England would probably take 200k.
It helps when you have two of the greatest footballers of all time playing for your sides. Those two are absolute monsters and would elevate any team in the world to a higher level.
Players that should be playing rugby league running around kicking the shite out everyone in front of them do not reside in La Liga. Premier League games are wars week in week out more so that in Spain. Real dominance stands in and of itself but there's a reason English teams aren't a fixture in the latter stages anymore.
It is almost like people here somehow do not watch the PL.
Well, that's probably because they have better players. In terms of technical ability two Spanish giants are on a different planet to top PL clubs.