Lamine Yamal

[That_Bloke]

Ronaldinho played on the left. Is there any article out there that says Messi wasn’t happy playing as a RW when he first broke through?

I couldn't for the life of me find the article where I read it. Take that as you will, and if you believe that I'm just waffling, then so be it. However the part about him as a cover for Ronaldinho can be found here (it starts at 03:45)

That Barca team had with superstars or established players like Deco, Ronaldinho, Davids, Eto'o or Larsson. Giuly was a bit of an outlier though. I think that people just don't realize how radically different the situation was for Messi, compared to Yamal who's been granted first team game time because there literally was no one else.

He proved to be up to the challenge and massive credits to him, but that's only telling one part of the story.

I agree on the first statement about Pekerman, but disagree that the quality of that Argentine team was better than current Spain, for me no way.

And then, as I wrote above, it's quite impossible to talk 'who is more talented at the same age', is it the same as 'who shows more promise"? Such discussions are often marked with hindsight and revisionism so I don't think it's a fair debate, more of a decent topic for a chat over a pint or seven. Messi at 17 was a giant talent obviously, but it really wasn't so clear and certain he'd become a GOAT. It's not to downplay his talent - it was his exponential growth and consistency that made him the best, Yamal is yet to show that.

"who is more productive/mature/a better player at 17" is less subjective and for me there's no doubt 17 yo Yamal is streets ahead of 17 yo Messi. 17 yo Rooney was also a better player than 17 yo Messi - doesn't mean he was more talented though.

and the last statement is incorrect, 17 yo Messi is not benching Yamal on a right wing and he's not benching Lewandowski to take the false nine role, he had no fecking clue (nevermind the physical ability) about being a false nine role at 17.

The whole discussion started after one poster made the claim that Yamal was more talented than Messi at the same age, which I personally found ludicrous (note that I'm speaking in terms of raw talent, not numbers). But I get where you're coming from and we can settle on this.

Fair point. My only caveat is that Messi just didn't have the same opportunities because of the reasons I mentioned above which makes it difficult to have a direct comparison between the two.

He'd absolutely shoot an ageing Lewandowski to the next solar system. Don't forget that we're hypothetically talking about a 17 yo Messi starting in 2025, where everyone and their dog knows what the role of a false nine is. I'm sure that Flick would've got it covered. Benching Yamal might've been a stretch on my part, though.

Anyway, I said my piece, it's a thread about Yamal after all. The lad is absolutely brilliant and buries the current competition six feet under. On this, I think we can all agree.

 

[Kwabs]

He's not,

your opinion, not definitive

although I personally consider Yamal to be a generational talent and a player I'd gladly pay just to watch him play. Messi is the kind of footballer that appears once in a lifetime.

I mean, I dont agree. I've seen Messi, Maradona and R9 in my lifetime, and id consider them all to be about the same level talent wise, with maybe Maradona having the most.

Messi was running rings around a star studded Real Madrid at 17

which game are you talking about, specifically?

and had much more competition inside his own team (I mean, he was Ronaldinho's understudy). Yamal is playing that much because there's literally no one else remotely near his level.

Disagree. He's playing that much because he's that good. Barca have a strong team at the moment.

I think that the current, and glaring, lack of truly gifted footballers is skewing people's views.

I don't think so. I agree that there is a lack of such players, but that is not skewing my view.

 

[horsechoker]

I think people are getting carried away, the talent is there but consistency is the key to being in a goat conversation.

Any number of things can happen to a player to make them plummet and I think Lamal still needs to be taken care of until he reaches his early 20s.

 

[redshaw]

I don't see it. It's the same pass he's made a hundred times before. They're not even similar techniques.

Yeah he's looking at Raphinha the whole time and from the other angle it looks a chipped pass into his path as well.

 

[That_Bloke]

I mean, I dont agree. I've seen Messi, Maradona and R9 in my lifetime, and id consider them all to be about the same level talent wise, with maybe Maradona having the most.

I've watched all of them live and I'm a hardcore Maradona fan. R9 was ruined by injuries but I still consider him as the best striker I've ever seen, and arguably the best striker of all time. His role on the pitch was also fundamentally different than Messi's or Maradona's. Or Yamal's for that matter.

Messi's true greatness will only be appreciated in the coming decades. I stand by my statement that he's a once in a lifetime player.

which game are you talking about, specifically?

I was wrong, it was the 2005-06 season when Messi already was 18. I cleared that up in a previous post.

Disagree. He's playing that much because he's that good. Barca have a strong team at the moment.

Indeed, but they are light-years away from that 2004-06 Barca team.

 

[Krny]

Yeah he's looking at Raphinha the whole time and from the other angle it looks a chipped pass into his path as well.

By his facial expression it look like he think he's fecked it up and didn't get the connection he was looking.

 

[redshaw]

By his facial expression it look like he think he's fecked it up and didn't get the connection he was looking.

He does play with divine intervention, anointed by Messi as a baby, so he won't always know what's going to happen.

 

[Gehrman]

Ronaldinho played on the left. Is there any article out there that says Messi wasn’t happy playing as a RW when he first broke through?

Ive read loads of times that Messi wasn't happy with being RW since his favourite position was as a nr. 10.

Reference is Guillem Balagué's 2013 biography of Messi.

 

[That_Bloke]

By his facial expression it look like he think he's fecked it up and didn't get the connection he was looking.

We can give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Querulous Megapode]

Barca's 04/05 squad:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004–05_FC_Barcelona_season

They literally had no one else for the right wing other than Giuly. (Eto'o established himself fairly swiftly as the striker, or they might have tried him there. Larsson was out the better part of the season, and likewise not really a wide player. Iniesta may have filled in a few times, but mostly he was deputizing all across midfield in that period, and he only started twelve league games that entire season.)

Messi couldn't have played much nore that season due to registration issues (I believe ten league games was the limit), but he also never really showed he had to play more often in those cameos. The idea that he was ever in direct competition with Ronaldinho is (regardless of whatever leadibg question some Barca TV host may have asked) nonesense - they have always played on opposite flanks for that Barca team, for largely the same reasons.

Yamal had Raphinha, Felix, and Ferran Torres to compete with for the wings last season (along with multiple midfielders who'd actually played out wide occasionally, and probably even Cancelo at a pinch). Not the greatest set of options, but quite enough to shut a sixteen year old kid out of the first team if he isn't pulling any trees, and probably at least comparable to the players in Messi's way twenty years earlier.

 

[Fobal]

Ive read loads of times that Messi wasn't happy with being RW since his favourite position was as a nr. 10.

He played as an enganche in Newell's, as some sort of dinamic forward oriented "10", not the more strategical alike one when he got older and Barca lacked in such department.

In any case when young, more than a problem with a role, it was his superiority with his dribbling what made him wanting to play in a more individuallistic style and with freedom to roam all over the place.
That's why he had that tendency to drift inside. That and obviously his urge to score that was tamed in those days given his RW role and playing on his weaker foot flank to centre, pass or cross more regularly.
He never was a real winger, even when playing in such position.

 

[Ish]

I don't see it. It's the same pass he's made a hundred times before. They're not even similar techniques.

Yeah, just an opinion bud. Looks to me like he was trying to get a fast shot off and slightly opens his foot/body up. Alas, I could well be wrong and he meant it as a great assist.

 

[Fobal]

Barca's 04/05 squad:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004–05_FC_Barcelona_season

They literally had no one else for the right wing other than Giuly. (Eto'o established himself fairly swiftly as the striker, or they might have tried him there. Larsson was out the better part of the season, and likewise not really a wide player. Iniesta may have filled in a few times, but mostly he was deputizing all across midfield in that period, and he only started twelve league games that entire season.)

Messi couldn't have played much nore that season due to registration issues (I believe ten league games was the limit), but he also never really showed he had to play more often in those cameos. The idea that he was ever in direct competition with Ronaldinho is (regardless of whatever leadibg question some Barca TV host may have asked) nonesense - they have always played on opposite flanks for that Barca team, for largely the same reasons.

Yamal had Raphinha, Felix, and Ferran Torres to compete with for the wings last season (along with multiple midfielders who'd actually played out wide occasionally, and probably even Cancelo at a pinch). Not the greatest set of options, but quite enough to shut a sixteen year old kid out of the first team if he isn't pulling any trees, and probably at least comparable to the players in Messi's way twenty years earlier.

It never was a RG thing the stuff that made that Barca less prone to use more young Xavi, Iniesta, or any youngster as Messi, it was a Barca in one of their prime moments in their history quite different to recent past and current Barca financial situation and its consequences.
It's like I've talked before when Di Stefano was in River, no matter he was born Alfredo, that team wasn't in any sort of hurry.

That thing that he never showed he HAD to play, it's not true at ALL, even to the extent of the pressure fans normally put to see their academy youngsters to play when they are clearly special. The pressure became bigger when Barca started to show some cracks and not playing in the level the names they had where deemed to provide.
Also Frank even being in the few Ducth less rigid and stubborn type, still it's very Dutch regarding his flanks and what type of player he wanted there, while Giuly was having the form of his life, quite unfair to cross paths with young Messi in those days for him BTW.

Messi had registration issues, he had frequent injuries (not just muscular type, some really harsh fouls with the Reserva since 16 and Emerson alike treatment in first division) and they also didn't want to loose them to any Capello around given the regsitration issues and how stack they were, while dealing with his desire to play every day and lack of fear todo so. They could afford nad ins some way had to make his insertion in a more prudent and calm style, while balancing Messi's desire to be on the pitch all the time, he was from the breaking the wall type more than waiting people to open it for him. Barca in previous days had lost Pique, Cesc, they didn't wanted to loose him, so they had to manage his exposure too.

 

[Fobal]

Yeah, just an opinion bud. Looks to me like he was trying to get a fast shot off and slightly opens his foot/body up. Alas, I could well be wrong and he meant it as a great assist.

It's a great assist no matter what, it's his drive and dare to try in huge secnarios what also gives him that special aura he has shown so far.

 

[Lay]

I had the pleasure of seeing him live at the start of the season. He actually had a quiet game but the two moments of brilliance resulted in goals. Outstanding talent.

 

[Red Star One]

I had the pleasure of seeing him live at the start of the season. He actually had a quiet game but the two moments of brilliance resulted in goals. Outstanding talent.

He's the only reason I head to Montjuïc every month or so this season, and I really don't give a feck that much about Barça. It's pure FOMO and I don't know what I'd tell my children when they ask me why I didn't go watch this lad when I could. Absolute marvel - though I agree there were many games where he only has a moment or two of brilliance, watching them live allowed me appreciate Pedri much more, too.

 

[That_Bloke]

Barca's 04/05 squad:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004–05_FC_Barcelona_season

They literally had no one else for the right wing other than Giuly. (Eto'o established himself fairly swiftly as the striker, or they might have tried him there. Larsson was out the better part of the season, and likewise not really a wide player. Iniesta may have filled in a few times, but mostly he was deputizing all across midfield in that period, and he only started twelve league games that entire season.)

Messi couldn't have played much nore that season due to registration issues (I believe ten league games was the limit), but he also never really showed he had to play more often in those cameos. The idea that he was ever in direct competition with Ronaldinho is (regardless of whatever leadibg question some Barca TV host may have asked) nonesense - they have always played on opposite flanks for that Barca team, for largely the same reasons.

Yamal had Raphinha, Felix, and Ferran Torres to compete with for the wings last season (along with multiple midfielders who'd actually played out wide occasionally, and probably even Cancelo at a pinch). Not the greatest set of options, but quite enough to shut a sixteen year old kid out of the first team if he isn't pulling any trees, and probably at least comparable to the players in Messi's way twenty years earlier.

Like many, you're underestimating Giuly and the situation Barca were in at the time and discarding how the whole team functioned under Rijkaard. Granted Giuly always loooked like a bit of an odd signing at the time, he still was an established player coming from a very successful Monaco team under Deschamps. A very intelligent, versatile, reliable, experienced and go-to right-winger. His contribution to that Barca team is often understated.

Rijkaard was a fairly conservative manager when it came to wingers, and he was always reluctant to throw a young Messi in icy waters.

True superstars that.

 

[Ish]

It's a great assist no matter what, it's his drive and dare to try in huge secnarios what also gives him that special aura he has shown so far.

Absolutely.

 

[Kwabs]

I've watched all of them live and I'm a hardcore Maradona fan. R9 was ruined by injuries but I still consider him as the best striker I've ever seen, and arguably the best striker of all time. His role on the pitch was also fundamentally different than Messi's or Maradona's. Or Yamal's for that matter.

Fair enough

Messi's true greatness will only be appreciated in the coming decades. I stand by my statement that he's a once in a lifetime player.

Not in terms of talent (although very few have had comparable talent). If you add up all the accolades and achievements and consistency over many years (consistency in terms of great all round performances, not just consistency in terms of tap-ins, like CR7) then maybe yes. Apart from Pele, but that was not in my lifetime.

I was wrong, it was the 2005-06 season when Messi already was 18. I already cleared that up.

OK. So maybe you'll accept that what Yamal is doing at the highest level at the age of 16/17 hasn't been seen since Pele. From anyone. Does that mean he will automatically go on to be better than all the usual suspects? Of course not.

Indeed, but they are light-years away from that 2004-06 Barca team.

I don't know about 'light years'. Messi was 17 in 2004. At that time, if you take out the obviously special players (Ronnie, Eto'o), you've got the likes of Guily, Belletti, Marquez, Maxi Lopez, Larsson, Edmilson, Sylvinho, etc. Xavi was there but he wasn't 'Xavi' then, as Deco was ruling the roost at centre mid. Not sure why you think that's light years ahead of the current squad.

 

[Fobal]

Fair enough

Not in terms of talent (although very few have had comparable talent). If you add up all the accolades and achievements and consistency over many years (consistency in terms of great all round performances, not just consistency in terms of tap-ins, like CR7) then maybe yes. Apart from Pele, but that was not in my lifetime.

OK. So maybe you'll accept that what Yamal is doing at the highest level at the age of 16/17 hasn't been seen since Pele. From anyone. Does that mean he will automatically go on to be better than all the usual suspects? Of course not.

I don't know about 'light years'. Messi was 17 in 2004. At that time, if you take out the obviously special players (Ronnie, Eto'o), you've got the likes of Guily, Belletti, Marquez, Maxi Lopez, Larsson, Edmilson, Sylvinho, etc. Xavi was there but he wasn't 'Xavi' then, as Deco was ruling the roost at centre mid. Not sure why you think that's light years ahead of the current squad.

How on hell Messi doesn't warrant the "once in a lifetime" expresion in terms of talent as a player.

...and the CR7 part, come on, WTF

 

[Kwabs]

How on hell Messi doesn't warrant the "once in a lifetime" expresion in terms of talent as a player.

...and the CR7 part, come on, WTF

Read my earlier posts on this, I've already said why, IMO.

 

[Fobal]

Read my earlier posts on this, I've already said why, IMO.

Messi is one of the best examples of what for lack of better word it's sometimes named "natural born talent", so not considering him a once in a lifetime player it's quite a take.

Anyway, reading lot of recent posts, I feel that many here are taking unnecessary side roads.

I think Yamal like Messi, are from the breaking the wall type of player, that does not need any sort of special enviroment to force their entrance on a team, not even age. FULL STOP.

Yet this does not take away that the circumstances, the stage of Barca when Messi arrived (and even prior to that, with Xavi, Iniesta) was a lot different than these last years Barca.
And this has to do with avaiable players at both moments, financial isues, level of succees, type of coach and his ideas, etc. That enviroment, with some of the things I've mentioned in my prior post, put some barriers to a faster full time introduction of Iniesta and Messi that were absolute ready to go; with Xavi, in my view I can see why some aspects of his game in those days Frank didn't fancy that much and I can of agree with some of them with THAT particular Xavi from that period.

On the other hand, to not give credit to what Yamal is doing at his age when was given the oportunity would be silly as feck, that is a plain written on stone fact, no matter if Barca in recent times was forced to play more youngsters than they would in the past.
BTW the academy approach have been more an after Pep arrival stuff, than the traditional Barca in the past with coaches not named Johan or Pep, more lean to buy entire teams when they could and fill the gaps with the academy. In the mix the sort of player Iniesta and Messi are opened the door of La Massia to produce and snatch/seek from other academies more players in such mold, meaning more dribble oriented ones that also leads to nowadays having a Yamal in the squad and it seems that it will stay this way.

And last, in my view, they are quite different players in some of their atributes that would also affect their style of play, to demerit in a silly way one or the other, sounds quite weird.

 

[Fenômeno]

Messi was also injured quite a lot when he first broke through, tbh he looked quite fragile in those early days (guess the hormone injections hadn’t fully allowed him to develop at that point). It’s not controversial to say Yamal has had a better start, what really matters is how he develops and if he’s able to do it season after season like Messi did.

 

[Wand of a right foot]

At age 16/17, Messi’s competition for the RW spot was quaresma and Luis Garcia. Barca signed raphinha to be their right winger and yamal has basically shunted him to the left.

1. Messi had some issues with getting a Spanish passport which prevented him from playing in la liga.https://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/news/0257-0de68432983d-9db4a38e7bbe-1000--messi-goes-native-for-barca/

2. Barcelona did not need to start him so young because they were already doing very very well with Ronaldinho as their man man and Etoo their no.9. It really wasn't worth risking Messi's health. On the other hand, Yamal and Cubarsi have had to start for Barcelona from a very young age instead of being eased into it because of the prevailing circunstances. Both have taken their chance very well.


3. Even when he started playing, it was because the first team players literally bagged Rijkard to do so.


4. I can tell u having watched them in their teenage years that Messi very obviously had a higher ceiling. Yamal has better numbers but that is true of every mordern forward progressively with time but also because of Yamal's maturity at such a young age, credit where it is due.

Like some of the posters have mentioned, Messi is once in a lifetime talent. I used to watch Barcelona matches just to watch him play, ditto Yamal, ditto Ronaldinho.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

He gives me Mahrez vibes, but as a 17 year old and more explosive physically. Style is similar though. Lovely player to watch.

Will be interesting to see how he develops his game as he matures. I only hope he doesn't get burnt out from so much senior football at a historically young age because realistically it should be like 6-8 years before he's actually at his "peak".

 

[Josh 76]

He gives me Mahrez vibes, but as a 17 year old and more explosive physically. Style is similar though. Lovely player to watch.

Will be interesting to see how he develops his game as he matures. I only hope he doesn't get burnt out from so much senior football at a historically young age because realistically it should be like 6-8 years before he's actually at his "peak".

Which 17 year old wonder kid was still playing at their highest level at 28-30?

Giggs is the only one I can think of. ??

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

Which 17 year old wonder kid was still playing at their highest level at 28-30?

Giggs is the only one I can think of. ??

Doesn't happen often for obvious reasons. Incredibly hard to handle that kind of mileage and physical toll and still be at the top.

Rooney's last great season was his age 29 year but even then I wouldn't say that was his "highest level", he clearly was diminished physically compared to 4 or 5 years before that.

 

[Fenômeno]

Good, sure, but we’re looking at something absurd with Yamal. Might be the most talented player active.

True but Mbappe didn’t take long to turn into a monster, was scoring in the CL at 18 then playing a key role in a World Cup win a year later.

In terms of raw talent in that age bracket Rooney is probably comparable, he was a force of nature not just in terms of skill but also physical which no other youngster has matched since.

 

[giorno]

Messi at 17 was a giant talent obviously, but it really wasn't so clear and certain he'd become a GOAT.

Can't speak for Messi at 17. Messi at 18 absolutely 100% screamed GOAT though. So does Lamine Yamal at 17

How on hell Messi doesn't warrant the "once in a lifetime" expresion in terms of talent as a player.

Well, there are people alive who saw all of Di Stefano, Pelé, Diego and Messi. So yeah, for them, he's literally not "once in a lifetime"

 

[Fobal]

True but Mbappe didn’t take long to turn into a monster, was scoring in the CL at 18 then playing a key role in a World Cup win a year later.

In terms of raw talent in that age bracket Rooney is probably comparable, he was a force of nature not just in terms of skill but also physical which no other youngster has matched since.

Depends of how deep in history you want to go, from Pele, to Mane (he started "late" with 20 like a thunder), to Puskas, to Sivori, to Maradona and others in between, or even lesser talents like Aguero are part of quite a number of extraordinary players playing at high level between their 15 to 20 years old that I tend to see as really young.
Yet like I've said before, Di Stefano as awesome as he was, had to wait in River to be a regular (20) while Saviola broke when 15. So not everytime requires the same level of talent to broke and make an impact (and more to sustain it), thought in all the cases, there was talent at early stages of their lifes to earn such places.

 

[Fobal]

Can't speak for Messi at 17. Messi at 18 absolutely 100% screamed GOAT though. So does Lamine Yamal at 17

Well, there are people alive who saw all of Di Stefano, Pelé, Diego and Messi. So yeah, for them, he's literally not "once in a lifetime"

hahahaha, I was waiting for that..

jokes aside once in a lifetime was never meant to be a literall expresion, yet I always find it way more suitable than the single GOAT term.

PD: Messi was screaming GOAT, but at the same time I remember trying to calm people down in those years with the ammount of hiperbole and Maradona's comparisons.

 

[jigen]

Not the same player at all. Messi was just a genius. Yamal will never be as good, no offense, he is already one of the best player in the World, but he is no Messi.

Agree. Messi was faster. And a better goal scorer. Yamal will be a word class player, but he isn't Messi.

 

[Red Star One]

Can't speak for Messi at 17. Messi at 18 absolutely 100% screamed GOAT though. So does Lamine Yamal at 17

There was never a single doubt about his talent and already at 17 whoever knew him was aware he has the tools to become the greatest ever. But there were quite a few doubts about his body and that he might not be able to deliver 30-40+ games a season on the highest level, he also seemed much more injury prone than he turned out to be.

 

[Red the Bear]

He has strong stake already for being the greatest 17 year old player of all time but in no area of human achievement is developments necessarily linear whether it be in the fields of art, science or as it concerns this discussion, sport.

I think he'll end up a Figo level player when it's all said and done which is nothing to scoff at but frankly I don't see the Messi comparisons.

 

[Fobal]

He's the only reason I head to Montjuïc every month or so this season, and I really don't give a feck that much about Barça. It's pure FOMO and I don't know what I'd tell my children when they ask me why I didn't go watch this lad when I could. Absolute marvel - though I agree there were many games where he only has a moment or two of brilliance, watching them live allowed me appreciate Pedri much more, too.

Given his style and atributes, he is more of an ocasion, moments player than some of the Phenoms and geniuses mentioned in this thread when young. He reminds me in that to Mbappe, yet he just started, I think he'll be more involved if at some moment he atsrats to play a more central or more free role. I find him a lot more aware of what he has and don't and what and when to do sthg in such moments than Mbappe even now as a grown up.

 

[Fobal]

There was never a single doubt about his talent and already at 17 whoever knew him was aware he has the tools to become the greatest ever. But there were quite a few doubts about his body and that he might not be able to deliver 30-40+ games a season on the highest level, he also seemed much more injury prone than he turned out to be.

Leaving physical development aside, his growth issues and muscle injuries due to his style, he was massacre game after game in first division (even frindlies like Gamper) and even worse when playing with the reserves.
In fact Messi had to deal due to his atributes and style a lot more abuse than Yamal since a very early age and in his whole La Massia period.
Just for the fun of it, I've uploaded a vid from at 16 in thsi very therad being basicly being targeted a la Diego, Pele time and again during those days, he certainly played in a manner that invited such abuse.

 

[lexisonfire]

Agree. Messi was faster. And a better goal scorer. Yamal will be a word class player, but he isn't Messi.

I watched Messi in 2004/5 and recall there wasn't as much hype as Yamal is currently getting. Messi was amazing at dribbling and feints even as a teen, but back then everyone assumed he wouldn't hold up physically due to his languid body type. For all of Messi's undeniable geniustry he also struggled to win silverware with Argentina in his prime and even retired from international football at one point, fortunately the emergence of clutch players like Dibu Martinez helped him and Argentina secure the bag.

Yamal is not another Messi and is a different type of prodigy clearly. He's won a Euro at 17 where he was Spain's key player, and is likely to be the youngest ever the BdO winner (had wanted Salah to win this season but his diving v PSG is a shame really) and he's got a great chance to contend for multiple CLs and WCs with Barca and the Spanish NT. IMO his passing skills and creativity at 17 is something we haven't witnessed before in football, he's already making a habit of casually passing into the net even from a distance like yesterday's goal. So long as Yamal's body holds up he has every opportunity to have a go at being one of the GOATs by winning more CLs, WCs, and Euros than the rest.

 

[That_Bloke]

Given his style and atributes, he is more of an ocasion, moments player than some of the Phenoms and geniuses mentioned in this thread when young. He reminds me in that to Mbappe, yet he just started and I find him a lot more aware of what he has and don't and what and when to do sthg in such moments than Mbappe even now as a grown up.

Yamal's a much better, more intelligent and more complete footballer than Mbappé. He oozes class.

He's not reliant on speed to take on his opponent, his first touch, close control and vision are streets ahead of Mbappé's, and so does his movement on and off the ball. He's also selfless and more of an enabler. His only real weakness is his finishing, but that can certainly be improved, although I doubt he'll reach Messi or CR7 levels.

I personally think that he'll have a longer career (and more successful) at the top than Mbappé, unless injuries get in the way.

 

[Fobal]

I watched Messi in 2004/5 and recall there wasn't as much hype as Yamal is currently getting. Messi was amazing at dribbling and feints even as a teen, but back then everyone assumed he wouldn't hold up physically due to his languid body type. For all of Messi's undeniable geniustry he also struggled to win silverware with Argentina in his prime and even retired from international football at one point, fortunately the emergence of clutch players like Dibu Martinez helped him and Argentina secure the bag.

Yamal is not another Messi and is a different type of prodigy clearly. He's won a Euro at 17 where he was Spain's key player, and is likely to be the youngest ever the BdO winner (had wanted Salah to win this season but his diving v PSG is a shame really) and he's got a great chance to contend for multiple CLs and WCs with Barca and the Spanish NT. IMO his passing skills and creativity at 17 is something we haven't witnessed before in football, he's already making a habit of casually passing into the net even from a distance like yesterday's goal. So long as Yamal's body holds up he has every opportunity to have a go at being one of the GOATs by winning more CLs, WCs, and Euros than the rest.

Messi struggling to win silverware with the NT was more related to plain timing (rearging lots of stuff), lack of better coaches than anything else. In fact he started with a thunder in the YNT and his debut with teh Senior one started with quite a sign with him being wrongly sent off with a silly red.

And even if the coach is there, if the team playing as such is there, you still can end empty handed.
International Football with their WCs/Euros, Copas can be quite cruel in such regard, as it can be the CL/Libertadores as major KO style of Tournaments.

PD: Messi always was quite bulky, not that frail and thin as an Aimar. yet indeed he got injured quite a lot.

 

[Fobal]

Yamal's a much better, more intelligent and more complete footballer than Mbappé. He oozes class.

He's not reliant on speed to take on his opponent, his first touch, close control and vision are streets ahead of Mbappé's, and so does his movement on and off the ball. He's also selfless and more of an enabler. His only real weakness is his finishing, but that can certainly be improved, although I doubt he'll reach Messi or CR7 levels.

I personally think that he'll have a longer career (and more successful) at the top than Mbappé, unless injuries get in the way.

I get what you say, I preffer Yamal style as a player to Killian's approach...yet regarding the bolded sentence, it's not just injuries. It just take some mate with a blunder in some crucial match (or a penalty given to Germany), a coach stupidly subbing him or not calling him, or him in a role with the rival gives more personal attention to him and make stuff harder, while Mbappe winning tons of stuff from now on to easily change that possible scenario.

I think we sometimes fly to far way when we really like the atributes of a player and more if he is very young and we forget that there are also lost of contect beyond the player itself to have an extraordinatry carreer.

That is why I don't even see silly from me being cautious when Messi was a teen in some Forums and the Maradona comparisons were coming from left to right full time.

Yes he ended deserving the tag, he was in the Genius mold style and approach since I've first saw him with the YNT, yet there were lots of things to take in account to so easily imagine the best outcome or not being baffle to in those days read that his Getafe goal was A LOT better than Diego's one against England and such. Of course I find absolutely understandable when people "see" prior extraordinary players in new players doing extraordinary stuff when young and finding similarities.

What I would never get, it's someone saying of Aimar/Ortega and such as the new Maradona, where just at first glance atributes, build and approach clearly speaks volume that we are not witnessing such specimen.