Lamine Yamal

[Kwabs]

I dont think anyone is doing him a favour by comparing him to Messi. Achievements are one thing but individually, comparing him to THE most talented footballer atleast 30 to 50 years or maybe ever, is putting alot of pressure on him. He has the talent to become a great, no doubt. But he ain't Messi level which isn't a shame at all because no one was.

The biggest advantage Yamal has is that he plays for Spain who look set to dominate the near future and crucially they play a very similar style to Barcelona. Messi on the other hand played for a rather chaotic national team.

No, the Argentina team that Messi started with was actually really good.

Messi's international career was a struggle until the 2020s. He had a lot of good performances but no luck with winning. Also, he didn't score or assist in a final for ages, and that was held against him.

Probably the most talented players I've ever seen would be Messi and Maradona (in my lifetime), but Maradona was maybe a tiny bit more gifted. It's VERY close though.

 

[Querulous Megapode]

There's very little about this current Spain side that's at all extraordinary other than Yamal himself. (A genuinely strong midfield's largely offset by a lack of depth at right and center back, an uninspiring striker, and outright poor goalkeepers. It's entirely possible that Carvajal will never play for the NT again after his injury, and his replacement at the Euros was 38 years old Jesus Navas. Williams was very, very good last summer, but I'm not sure he's really shown that level regualry before or since, though they do at least have other options there.)

There's no real shortage of comparable sides on paper. If they dominate anything at all, it's likely to be largely down to Pedri and Yamal.

Probably the most talented players I've ever seen would be Messi and Maradona (in my lifetime), but Maradona was maybe a tiny bit more gifted. It's VERY close though.

I'm not even sure it's quite that close, personally. Maradona is the one historic player who truly stands out from the pack, technically, and his guile and physicallity were largely up to par.

I still feel Messi and Cristiano have largely obviated any claim he had for being the outright GOAT, though. (Or anyone's, other than Pele, and maybe Puskas and Di Stefano.) And the same principle can easily apply to other players down the line.

 

[Kwabs]

There's very little about this current Spain side that's at all extraordinary other than Yamal himself. (A genuinely strong midfield's largely offset by a lack of depth at right and center back, an uninspiring striker, and outright poor goalkeepers. It's entirely possible that Carvajal will never play for the NT again after his injury, and his replacement at the Euros was 38 years old Jesus Navas. Williams was very, very good last summer, but I'm not sure he's really shown that level regualry before or since, though they do at least have other options there.)

There's no real shortage of comparable sides on paper. If they dominate anything at all, it's likely to be largely down to Pedri and Yamal.



I'm not even sure it's quite that close, personally. Maradona is the one historic player who truly stands out from the pack, technically, and his guile and physicallity were largely up to par.

I still feel Messi and Cristiano have largely obviated any claim he had for being the outright GOAT, though. (Or anyone's, other than Pele, and maybe Puskas and Di Stefano.) And the same principle can easily apply to other players down the line.

I don't think so. There are still plenty of people who think he's the GOAT, because they think he's the best player they've ever seen. His best performances/peak years are easily comparable to anyone else's, if not better.

The modern players have more trophies and stats, but there are contextual reasons for that. The eras are so different that it makes direct comparison a bit redundant, if we are being honest. But because we are emotional, rather than logical, we will always try to force comparisons, and I'm no different in that respect.

 

[Wand of a right foot]

No, the Argentina team that Messi started with was actually really good.

Messi's international career was a struggle until the 2020s. He had a lot of good performances but no luck with winning. Also, he didn't score or assist in a final for ages, and that was held against him.

Probably the most talented players I've ever seen would be Messi and Maradona (in my lifetime), but Maradona was maybe a tiny bit more gifted. It's VERY close though.

There's very little about this current Spain side that's at all extraordinary other than Yamal himself. (A genuinely strong midfield's largely offset by a lack of depth at right and center back, an uninspiring striker, and outright poor goalkeepers. It's entirely possible that Carvajal will never play for the NT again after his injury, and his replacement at the Euros was 38 years old Jesus Navas. Williams was very, very good last summer, but I'm not sure he's really shown that level regualry before or since, though they do at least have other options there.)

There's no real shortage of comparable sides on paper. If they dominate anything at all, it's likely to be largely down to Pedri and Yamal.



I'm not even sure it's quite that close, personally. Maradona is the one historic player who truly stands out from the pack, technically, and his guile and physicallity were largely up to par.

I still feel Messi and Cristiano have largely obviated any claim he had for being the outright GOAT, though. (Or anyone's, other than Pele, and maybe Puskas and Di Stefano.) And the same principle can easily apply to other players down the line.

it is very close between Messi and Maradona in terms of natural talent and peak performances. Where Messi seperates himself from Maradona is consistency and longevity; like someone put it Messi in his prime was Maradona of Mexico 1986 every 3 to 4 days and it is true. Part of the reason is off the field matters.

And btw, Maradona before Mexico 86 recieved similar criticism playing for Argentina as Messi did.

Cristiano isn't in this natural talent or peak performances conversation.

 

[Querulous Megapode]

"Natural talent" and "peak performance" are by no means the same conversation. And "greatness" is very much a seperate topic to both.

 

[next_number_seven]

it is very close between Messi and Maradona in terms of natural talent and peak performances. Where Messi seperates himself from Maradona is consistency and longevity; like someone put it Messi in his prime was Maradona of Mexico 1986 every 3 to 4 days and it is true. Part of the reason is off the field matters.

And btw, Maradona before Mexico 86 recieved similar criticism playing for Argentina as Messi did.

Cristiano isn't in this natural talent or peak performances conversation.

If you to pick one of Diego or Messi at their peak in a once off game, who would you pick?

It's hard to know.
I think I'd pick Messi but I still consider Maradona the greatest but that's more down to his personality and charisma.

 

[MexicanCowboy]

There's very little about this current Spain side that's at all extraordinary other than Yamal himself. (A genuinely strong midfield's largely offset by a lack of depth at right and center back, an uninspiring striker, and outright poor goalkeepers. It's entirely possible that Carvajal will never play for the NT again after his injury, and his replacement at the Euros was 38 years old Jesus Navas. Williams was very, very good last summer, but I'm not sure he's really shown that level regualry before or since, though they do at least have other options there.)

There's no real shortage of comparable sides on paper. If they dominate anything at all, it's likely to be largely down to Pedri and Yamal.



I'm not even sure it's quite that close, personally. Maradona is the one historic player who truly stands out from the pack, technically, and his guile and physicallity were largely up to par.

I still feel Messi and Cristiano have largely obviated any claim he had for being the outright GOAT, though. (Or anyone's, other than Pele, and maybe Puskas and Di Stefano.) And the same principle can easily apply to other players down the line.

I don't agree. Over half the players we play are Spanish and they are really high quality players. Pedri, Fermín Lopez, Gavi, Casadó, Dani Olmo, Cubarsí, Íñigo Martinez, Balde. And of course Lamine Yamal. Add players like Fabian, Nico Williams and Rodri. Spain could use Olmo as fake 9 like we have done a few times with great results. The only position that's truly not covered is right back.

 

[Kwabs]

it is very close between Messi and Maradona in terms of natural talent and peak performances. Where Messi seperates himself from Maradona is consistency and longevity; like someone put it Messi in his prime was Maradona of Mexico 1986 every 3 to 4 days and it is true. Part of the reason is off the field matters.

And btw, Maradona before Mexico 86 recieved similar criticism playing for Argentina as Messi did.

Cristiano isn't in this natural talent or peak performances conversation.

Who said that?

I don't think Messi separates himself in consistency at all. Maradona, outside of periods relating to injury was consistently brilliant for Argentinos Juniors, Boca Juniors, Barca, Napoli and Argentina. This was despite his off the field issues, which eventually caught up with him.

After Napoli it was diminishing returns and so you can definitely say that Messi separates himself there, in terms of longevity. But modern performers in all sports play longer now that they used to, for a number of reasons.

Re Maradona for Argentina, yes he would have received criticism before 1986, but he was only 25 by then. Messi did not win with Argentina until he was 34. So with regard to what I was saying about Yamal, it's great for him that he has already won and starred in a major tournament with Spain, so he'll get less of the 'you can't do it' commentary that puts so much pressure on these guys. Of course, he still has to do the same thing at a World Cup.

 

[Wand of a right foot]

Who said that?

I don't think Messi separates himself in consistency at all. Maradona, outside of periods relating to injury was consistently brilliant for Argentinos Juniors, Boca Juniors, Barca, Napoli and Argentina. This was despite his off the field issues, which eventually caught up with him.

After Napoli it was diminishing returns and so you can definitely say that Messi separates himself there, in terms of longevity. But modern performers in all sports play longer now that they used to, for a number of reasons.

Re Maradona for Argentina, yes he would have received criticism before 1986, but he was only 25 by then. Messi did not win with Argentina until he was 34. So with regard to what I was saying about Yamal, it's great for him that he has already won and starred in a major tournament with Spain, so he'll get less of the 'you can't do it' commentary that puts so much pressure on these guys. Of course, he still has to do the same thing at a World Cup.

Jorge Valadano, Maradona's former teammate and Real Madrid's former general manager and sporting director, said that.
https://sports.yahoo.com/heres-the-...na every day,primacy effect that Maradona did.

 

[Kwabs]

Jorge Valadano, Maradona's former teammate and Real Madrid's former general manager and sporting director, said that.
https://sports.yahoo.com/heres-the-problem-with-the-messi-vs-maradona-debate-135544378.html#:~:text="Messi is Maradona every day,primacy effect that Maradona did.

Oh, l o l, I don't put any stock in what his teammates say, they change their minds every week when it comes to this debate. Like Ardiles was quoted saying Messi had surpassed Maradona and then in 2022 he said Messi would never surpass Maradona even if he won the World Cup.

The issue with what we are discussing though, is the different challenges they faced. Maradona, from the accounts of the fans of his clubs (up to Napoli) who watched him every week, was a consistent performer. He wouldn't have the reputation he has if he wasn't.

If you want to say Messi is more consistent, then the question is, how consistent would he be with people like Andoni Goikoetxea breaking his ankles? How consistent would be on terrible pitches? How consistent would he be with Sola and Romano behind him and Giordano in front of him, instead of Xavi, Iniesta and Suarez respectively?

Diego's life was pretty chaotic, but he still performed well regularly, which is a testament to his genius.

Anyway, enough of the past, back to the future with Yamal.