Lamine Yamal

Wand of a right foot said:
I dont think anyone is doing him a favour by comparing him to Messi. Achievements are one thing but individually, comparing him to THE most talented footballer atleast 30 to 50 years or maybe ever, is putting alot of pressure on him. He has the talent to become a great, no doubt. But he ain't Messi level which isn't a shame at all because no one was.

The biggest advantage Yamal has is that he plays for Spain who look set to dominate the near future and crucially they play a very similar style to Barcelona. Messi on the other hand played for a rather chaotic national team.
Click to expand...
No, the Argentina team that Messi started with was actually really good.

Messi's international career was a struggle until the 2020s. He had a lot of good performances but no luck with winning. Also, he didn't score or assist in a final for ages, and that was held against him.

Probably the most talented players I've ever seen would be Messi and Maradona (in my lifetime), but Maradona was maybe a tiny bit more gifted. It's VERY close though.
 
There's very little about this current Spain side that's at all extraordinary other than Yamal himself. (A genuinely strong midfield's largely offset by a lack of depth at right and center back, an uninspiring striker, and outright poor goalkeepers. It's entirely possible that Carvajal will never play for the NT again after his injury, and his replacement at the Euros was 38 years old Jesus Navas. Williams was very, very good last summer, but I'm not sure he's really shown that level regualry before or since, though they do at least have other options there.)

There's no real shortage of comparable sides on paper. If they dominate anything at all, it's likely to be largely down to Pedri and Yamal.

Kwabs said:
Probably the most talented players I've ever seen would be Messi and Maradona (in my lifetime), but Maradona was maybe a tiny bit more gifted. It's VERY close though.
Click to expand...

I'm not even sure it's quite that close, personally. Maradona is the one historic player who truly stands out from the pack, technically, and his guile and physicallity were largely up to par.

I still feel Messi and Cristiano have largely obviated any claim he had for being the outright GOAT, though. (Or anyone's, other than Pele, and maybe Puskas and Di Stefano.) And the same principle can easily apply to other players down the line.
 
Querulous Megapode said:
There's very little about this current Spain side that's at all extraordinary other than Yamal himself. (A genuinely strong midfield's largely offset by a lack of depth at right and center back, an uninspiring striker, and outright poor goalkeepers. It's entirely possible that Carvajal will never play for the NT again after his injury, and his replacement at the Euros was 38 years old Jesus Navas. Williams was very, very good last summer, but I'm not sure he's really shown that level regualry before or since, though they do at least have other options there.)

There's no real shortage of comparable sides on paper. If they dominate anything at all, it's likely to be largely down to Pedri and Yamal.



I'm not even sure it's quite that close, personally. Maradona is the one historic player who truly stands out from the pack, technically, and his guile and physicallity were largely up to par.

I still feel Messi and Cristiano have largely obviated any claim he had for being the outright GOAT, though. (Or anyone's, other than Pele, and maybe Puskas and Di Stefano.) And the same principle can easily apply to other players down the line.
Click to expand...
I don't think so. There are still plenty of people who think he's the GOAT, because they think he's the best player they've ever seen. His best performances/peak years are easily comparable to anyone else's, if not better.

The modern players have more trophies and stats, but there are contextual reasons for that. The eras are so different that it makes direct comparison a bit redundant, if we are being honest. But because we are emotional, rather than logical, we will always try to force comparisons, and I'm no different in that respect.
 
Kwabs said:
No, the Argentina team that Messi started with was actually really good.

Messi's international career was a struggle until the 2020s. He had a lot of good performances but no luck with winning. Also, he didn't score or assist in a final for ages, and that was held against him.

Probably the most talented players I've ever seen would be Messi and Maradona (in my lifetime), but Maradona was maybe a tiny bit more gifted. It's VERY close though.
Click to expand...
Querulous Megapode said:
There's very little about this current Spain side that's at all extraordinary other than Yamal himself. (A genuinely strong midfield's largely offset by a lack of depth at right and center back, an uninspiring striker, and outright poor goalkeepers. It's entirely possible that Carvajal will never play for the NT again after his injury, and his replacement at the Euros was 38 years old Jesus Navas. Williams was very, very good last summer, but I'm not sure he's really shown that level regualry before or since, though they do at least have other options there.)

There's no real shortage of comparable sides on paper. If they dominate anything at all, it's likely to be largely down to Pedri and Yamal.



I'm not even sure it's quite that close, personally. Maradona is the one historic player who truly stands out from the pack, technically, and his guile and physicallity were largely up to par.

I still feel Messi and Cristiano have largely obviated any claim he had for being the outright GOAT, though. (Or anyone's, other than Pele, and maybe Puskas and Di Stefano.) And the same principle can easily apply to other players down the line.
Click to expand...
it is very close between Messi and Maradona in terms of natural talent and peak performances. Where Messi seperates himself from Maradona is consistency and longevity; like someone put it Messi in his prime was Maradona of Mexico 1986 every 3 to 4 days and it is true. Part of the reason is off the field matters.

And btw, Maradona before Mexico 86 recieved similar criticism playing for Argentina as Messi did.

Cristiano isn't in this natural talent or peak performances conversation.
 
"Natural talent" and "peak performance" are by no means the same conversation. And "greatness" is very much a seperate topic to both.
 
Wand of a right foot said:
it is very close between Messi and Maradona in terms of natural talent and peak performances. Where Messi seperates himself from Maradona is consistency and longevity; like someone put it Messi in his prime was Maradona of Mexico 1986 every 3 to 4 days and it is true. Part of the reason is off the field matters.

And btw, Maradona before Mexico 86 recieved similar criticism playing for Argentina as Messi did.

Cristiano isn't in this natural talent or peak performances conversation.
Click to expand...

If you to pick one of Diego or Messi at their peak in a once off game, who would you pick?

It's hard to know.
I think I'd pick Messi but I still consider Maradona the greatest but that's more down to his personality and charisma.
 
Querulous Megapode said:
There's very little about this current Spain side that's at all extraordinary other than Yamal himself. (A genuinely strong midfield's largely offset by a lack of depth at right and center back, an uninspiring striker, and outright poor goalkeepers. It's entirely possible that Carvajal will never play for the NT again after his injury, and his replacement at the Euros was 38 years old Jesus Navas. Williams was very, very good last summer, but I'm not sure he's really shown that level regualry before or since, though they do at least have other options there.)

There's no real shortage of comparable sides on paper. If they dominate anything at all, it's likely to be largely down to Pedri and Yamal.



I'm not even sure it's quite that close, personally. Maradona is the one historic player who truly stands out from the pack, technically, and his guile and physicallity were largely up to par.

I still feel Messi and Cristiano have largely obviated any claim he had for being the outright GOAT, though. (Or anyone's, other than Pele, and maybe Puskas and Di Stefano.) And the same principle can easily apply to other players down the line.
Click to expand...
I don't agree. Over half the players we play are Spanish and they are really high quality players. Pedri, Fermín Lopez, Gavi, Casadó, Dani Olmo, Cubarsí, Íñigo Martinez, Balde. And of course Lamine Yamal. Add players like Fabian, Nico Williams and Rodri. Spain could use Olmo as fake 9 like we have done a few times with great results. The only position that's truly not covered is right back.
 
Last edited:
Wand of a right foot said:
it is very close between Messi and Maradona in terms of natural talent and peak performances. Where Messi seperates himself from Maradona is consistency and longevity; like someone put it Messi in his prime was Maradona of Mexico 1986 every 3 to 4 days and it is true. Part of the reason is off the field matters.

And btw, Maradona before Mexico 86 recieved similar criticism playing for Argentina as Messi did.

Cristiano isn't in this natural talent or peak performances conversation.
Click to expand...
Who said that?

I don't think Messi separates himself in consistency at all. Maradona, outside of periods relating to injury was consistently brilliant for Argentinos Juniors, Boca Juniors, Barca, Napoli and Argentina. This was despite his off the field issues, which eventually caught up with him.

After Napoli it was diminishing returns and so you can definitely say that Messi separates himself there, in terms of longevity. But modern performers in all sports play longer now that they used to, for a number of reasons.

Re Maradona for Argentina, yes he would have received criticism before 1986, but he was only 25 by then. Messi did not win with Argentina until he was 34. So with regard to what I was saying about Yamal, it's great for him that he has already won and starred in a major tournament with Spain, so he'll get less of the 'you can't do it' commentary that puts so much pressure on these guys. Of course, he still has to do the same thing at a World Cup.
 
Kwabs said:
Who said that?

I don't think Messi separates himself in consistency at all. Maradona, outside of periods relating to injury was consistently brilliant for Argentinos Juniors, Boca Juniors, Barca, Napoli and Argentina. This was despite his off the field issues, which eventually caught up with him.

After Napoli it was diminishing returns and so you can definitely say that Messi separates himself there, in terms of longevity. But modern performers in all sports play longer now that they used to, for a number of reasons.

Re Maradona for Argentina, yes he would have received criticism before 1986, but he was only 25 by then. Messi did not win with Argentina until he was 34. So with regard to what I was saying about Yamal, it's great for him that he has already won and starred in a major tournament with Spain, so he'll get less of the 'you can't do it' commentary that puts so much pressure on these guys. Of course, he still has to do the same thing at a World Cup.
Click to expand...
Jorge Valadano, Maradona's former teammate and Real Madrid's former general manager and sporting director, said that.
https://sports.yahoo.com/heres-the-...na every day,primacy effect that Maradona did.
 
Wand of a right foot said:
Jorge Valadano, Maradona's former teammate and Real Madrid's former general manager and sporting director, said that.
https://sports.yahoo.com/heres-the-problem-with-the-messi-vs-maradona-debate-135544378.html#:~:text="Messi is Maradona every day,primacy effect that Maradona did.
Click to expand...
Oh, l o l, I don't put any stock in what his teammates say, they change their minds every week when it comes to this debate. Like Ardiles was quoted saying Messi had surpassed Maradona and then in 2022 he said Messi would never surpass Maradona even if he won the World Cup.

The issue with what we are discussing though, is the different challenges they faced. Maradona, from the accounts of the fans of his clubs (up to Napoli) who watched him every week, was a consistent performer. He wouldn't have the reputation he has if he wasn't.

If you want to say Messi is more consistent, then the question is, how consistent would he be with people like Andoni Goikoetxea breaking his ankles? How consistent would be on terrible pitches? How consistent would he be with Sola and Romano behind him and Giordano in front of him, instead of Xavi, Iniesta and Suarez respectively?

Diego's life was pretty chaotic, but he still performed well regularly, which is a testament to his genius.

Anyway, enough of the past, back to the future with Yamal.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Fortitude
That's what a best player in the world looks like, not the guy who keeps scoring penalties against the cannon fodder in the PL.
 
He's my favourite player on the planet at this point. Just staggering to watch.

Imagine going through a couple of years of not having the most incredible, aesthetically pleasing, world class player there is then having the next one come along from your academy.
 
Blood Mage said:
More talented than Messi looked at 17 to be honest, scary stuff.
Click to expand...
Not the same player at all. Messi was just a genius. Yamal will never be as good, no offense, he is already one of the best player in the World, but he is no Messi.
 
Still think he's been the best player in the world this season

That Barcelona team usually fall apart when he's not on the field
 
Querulous Megapode said:
There's very little about this current Spain side that's at all extraordinary other than Yamal himself. (A genuinely strong midfield's largely offset by a lack of depth at right and center back, an uninspiring striker, and outright poor goalkeepers. It's entirely possible that Carvajal will never play for the NT again after his injury, and his replacement at the Euros was 38 years old Jesus Navas. Williams was very, very good last summer, but I'm not sure he's really shown that level regualry before or since, though they do at least have other options there.)

There's no real shortage of comparable sides on paper. If they dominate anything at all, it's likely to be largely down to Pedri and Yamal.



I'm not even sure it's quite that close, personally. Maradona is the one historic player who truly stands out from the pack, technically, and his guile and physicallity were largely up to par.

I still feel Messi and Cristiano have largely obviated any claim he had for being the outright GOAT, though. (Or anyone's, other than Pele, and maybe Puskas and Di Stefano.) And the same principle can easily apply to other players down the line.
Click to expand...
No. Just no.
 
Red Star One said:
I really hope he gets his first Ballon d’Or this season already
Click to expand...
Talent wise he's in his own league at the moment. No other player can touch him and he delivers on the pitch too.

He should get it in my opinion, but it will depend on how well Barca do in the CL. Also, they're currently first in La Liga with one game in hand, but still battling it out with Real and Atlético.
 
Could tell from the Euros he's a generational talent.
 
A wand of a left foot.

The assist looked crazy as well. Did he say it was a shot, kind of looked like it was intentional to flick and spin the ball outward rather than a scuffed shot.
 
That_Bloke said:
Talent wise he's in his own league at the moment. No other player can touch him and he delivers on the pitch too.

He should get it in my opinion, but it will depend on how well Barca do in the CL. Also, they're currently first in La Liga with one game in hand, but still battling it out with Real and Atlético.
Click to expand...
If Barça manage to win the league and make it to the semifinal/final of the CL, I think he'll be among the favourites, especially with Pool crashing out yesterday.
 
That_Bloke said:
No, he's not and that's not a slight on him.

He's also a completely different type of of player.
Click to expand...
At 17, I think he's right actually. If we're talking about playing against men, not any youth stuff. As I've said before though, that doesn't mean he will develop in the same way.
 
It’s very unlikely that Yamal is going to be as consistent as Messi was, but I think at this age, Yamal is better.
 
Kwabs said:
At 17, I think he's right actually. If we're talking about playing against men, not any youth stuff. As I've said before though, that doesn't mean he will develop in the same way.
Click to expand...
He's not, although I personally consider Yamal to be a generational talent and a player I'd gladly pay just to watch him play. Messi is the kind of footballer that appears once in a lifetime.

Messi was running rings around a star studded Real Madrid at 17 and had much more competition inside his own team (I mean, he was Ronaldinho's understudy). Yamal is playing that much because there's literally no one else remotely near his level.

I think that the current, and glaring, lack of truly gifted footballers is skewing people's views.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.