La Liga/Serie A/BuLi Draft - QF Gio vs VivaJanuzaj/MJJ

[VivaJanuzaj]

Whoah, settle down there. Highest places in the Ballon D'Or:

Team Gio:
Nedved - 1st
Michel - 4th
Ibra - 7th in Serie A

Team Viva/ MJJ:
Eto'o - 5th
Muller - 5th
Savicevic - 9th in Serie A (and almost entirely for his CL performances as opposed to the league)

So Michel is out of his depth when he has a higher Ballon D'Or placing than any one of your attack? And that 4th place was earned in a non-tournament-year and was awarded entirely on club performances.

People who finished above Michel:
Furtre, Butragueno, Gullit
People who finished above Muller:
Messi, Ronaldo, Neuer, Robben

Players who finished above Eto'o
Messi, Ronaldo, Xavi, Iniesta

Muller and Eto'o are playing in Messi-Ronaldo era where no one else has a chance of taking the award.

 

[VivaJanuzaj]

Yes, like I said, it works both ways. The tactic of keeping Dejan forward gives you a huge advantage on the counter, but also for Gio it makes Nedved's task easier, if Sergi overlaps Sagnol will have to cover him leaving Nedved in space. If Sagnol sticks with Nedved, a cross for Ibra in the middle is on the cards.

Normally I don't think a manager will usually take that risk even if that means their counter attacking threat going down. Usually managers would be more pragmatic and instruct Dejan to track Sergi which of course shuts down that flank on both sides but that's what I can see happening in reality. Your tactics opens that area of the pitch a lot more on both sides.

Nedved cuts inside, his facing T.Silva or Khedira to a very very crowded area(don't forget, we're playing very deep Mou's Inter style although not exactly the same), I'd take the crosses though, Silva and Samuel are as reliable as it gets in the air, far smaller threat than allowing Savicevic and Eto'o to remain two vs two against Puyol and Bartseth.

And most managers normally try to be more appealing to the scan voters and make out of the world claims, we're saying it as it is - we know he'll have control of the midfield because he has the better CMs, that's impossible to argue with, so how do you cope with that? How do teams beat Barca? They counter the hell out of them and try to give them as little as possible in the final third by crowding the shit out of it. That's what we're doing and we're set up way better to handle the pressure than they can deal with our attackers speed.

I could come and say that between Guardiola and Sneijder's abilities on the ball and with Sagnol & Abidal so capable of maintaining possession we can fight them in that area, but that would be a worthless fact because in reality they will be the better team even if we have better players to maintain possession. It's kind of like your match, maybe he had more players to keep possession in that area, but your midfielder's work rate and discipline meant I don't see him gaining much of that for too long, which is why I said he can claim all he wants Modric will beat Davids and move forward, but it doesn't matter because in the actual game Davids won't let Modric keep the ball long enough to beat him and make the forward pass, so they will just skip Modric alltogether and go for Kaka and the front two faster and more directly.

 

[Moby]

And most managers normally try to be more appealing to the scan voters and make out of the world claims, we're saying it as it is - we know he'll have control of the midfield because he has the better CMs, that's impossible to argue with, so how do you cope with that? How do teams beat Barca? They counter the hell out of them and try to give them as little as possible in the final third by crowding the shit out of it.

I agree with your tactical assessment there of conceding the midfield control to Gio and sitting back.
Not sure about the comparison with Barca though. This team will be playing through the air as much as down on the ground, something that Barca couldn't and that lack of plan B was often brought up as the reason of their failure against park the bus teams. Here there's an aerial juggernaut in Ibra, and Ballack's aerial ability while entering the box is quite well documented (both the goals in 2008 against us ) and with a crosser like Michel it could be exploited. I mean, they have a better chance of breaking down a physically and aerially strong defense than Barca due to the threat they pose in the air.

 

[Enigma_87]

As for Muller on the left, naturally he played mostly on the right given Ribery was a nailed on starter on the left so that's expected. Given the stats provided by Aldo I think they are comparable to his overall contribution as well as on the right and centrally(albeit smaller excerpt), so probably he'll do just fine on the left as well.

Switching them over as well won't be a problem IMO as Savicevic is equally good there as well as on the right. Although I can see where Viva/MJJ are going putting Savicevic against Sergi especially since that Barca match in the CL.

 

[Gio]

People who finished above Michel:
Furtre, Butragueno, Gullit
People who finished above Muller:
Messi, Ronaldo, Neuer, Robben

Players who finished above Eto'o
Messi, Ronaldo, Xavi, Iniesta

Muller and Eto'o are playing in Messi-Ronaldo era where no one else has a chance of taking the award.

The only reason for Michel being so under-appreciated is the fact he played in the 1980s and early 1990s and his Real team were overshadowed by Milan in Europe. Ruud Gullit, Paolo Futre and Emilio Butragueno were all superb players as well. Futre in particular was sensational at Porto - many considered him the hottest property in the game.

Less familiarity shouldn't be a reason to so brutally under-rate them.

 

[Gio]

The big question mark in adopting the Inter/Chelsea or whoever approach (i.e. teams who successfully countered Pep's Barca) is that all of those teams relied on huge work rate and defensive resilience from their midfield to make it work. A midfield of Khedira, Pep and Sneijder just isn't suited to having to do so much work off the ball. As a gameplan it's broken on that basis.

 

[MJJ]

Gio has built an excellent side there so this is definitely going to be a close match. However, I feel that his side is too reliant on Ibra for goal-scoring. Both Nedved and Michel were more creators than scorers, infact ballack has a better goal scoring record than either of his wingers. This has a double effect

• Making it slightly easier for our side. If we keep Ibra quiet(easier said then done) that will have a significant impact on his side's ability to win the match.
• It doesnt make the best use of ibra's playmaking abilities. With no wing-forward in the side, ibra wont be able to drop deep and thread through balls as often as he normally does.

This again, closes an avenue of attack for gio's side. The question is then can we contain ibra, I believe that in samuel and silva we are well placed to meet his aerial and ground threat. With no number ten in the side, and two line hugging wingers, they will be able to focus better on Ibra which will prevent goal scoring opportunities.

Conversely on the other side, we have muller and eto'o who are amongst the most clinical players in football's history. In a game where chances wont be created that often I believe we will be better placed to capitalized on the mistakes of the opposition. I also think our defense is better than his but that could be due to a lack of familiarity with his players.

One more comment on midfield. While Gio's midfield is wonderful and perfectly drafted for a 4-3-3, I believe we have two of the three best passers on our side (sneijder and pep). This would result in one of ballack/veron playing slightly defensive to make sure either of the duo doesnt get enough time on the ball. This will further decrease his goal threat and increase his reliance on ibra.

 

[MJJ]

The big question mark in adopting the Inter/Chelsea or whoever approach (i.e. teams who successfully countered Pep's Barca) is that all of those teams relied on huge work rate and defensive resilience from their midfield to make it work. A midfield of Khedira, Pep and Sneijder just isn't suited to having to do so much work off the ball. As a gameplan it's broken on that basis.

Not really, scholes carrick worked really well in the premier league. As long as they arent positionally suspect they can close down enough avenues to make sure it wont be a total victory for your side. Both pep and sneijder are excellent at creating chances so either your side will have to close them down quicker(lessens goal threat as cant focus mostly on attack) or can give either of them the time needed to set one of our attackers through.

Deschamps positioning also means that one of ballack/veron will have to close down pep. Not the ideal men for the job really.

 

[Moby]

It doesnt make the best use of ibra's playmaking abilities. With no wing-forward in the side, ibra wont be able to drop deep and thread through balls as often as he normally does.

A key point.
Ibra is likely to be the furthest man on the pitch for most of the game and I expect more of a Drogba-like performance as a number 9 for which he's absolutely fine but not quite making the best use of his ability.

 

[MJJ]

A key point.
Ibra is likely to be the furthest man on the pitch for most of the game and I expect more of a Drogba-like performance as a number 9 for which he's absolutely fine but not quite making the best use of his ability.

Yup, I would also say a ibra playing a role akin to drogba is easier to defend than his normal 9.5 role. Our defenders can focus on him rather than be concerned of him dropping in midfield and closing down his passing avenues.

How would you rate bratseth btw? Google is telling me that he was a sweeper but dont know anything about him other than that.

 

[Moby]

I know as little about him as you do, would like Gio to enlighten more about him. In the OP he calls him one of the greatest BuLi defenders and an all rounded one.

 

[harms]

Not really, scholes carrick worked really well in the premier league. As long as they arent positionally suspect they can close down enough avenues to make sure it wont be a total victory for your side. Both pep and sneijder are excellent at creating chances so either your side will have to close them down quicker(lessens goal threat as cant focus mostly on attack) or can give either of them the time needed to set one of our attackers through.

Deschamps positioning also means that one of ballack/veron will have to close down pep. Not the ideal men for the job really.

How is Scholes and Carrick comparable to Pep and Khedira?

And Ballack is a great man to haunt down Pep, he runs constantly and has a great work rate in this 8/10 hybrid role

 

[Gio]

How would you rate bratseth btw? Google is telling me that he was a sweeper but dont know anything about him other than that.

Hugely influential in Werder Bremen's understated team of the mid-to-late 1980s and early 1990s, libero Bratseth was three-times Norwegian Player of the Year and was named the country's greatest ever player by the Norwegian FA. Duelled with Jurgen Kohler for the Bundesliga's best defender in Kicker magazine's ratings, ranking first in 1988/89 and 1992/93, and second (behind Kohler) in 1987/88. I'm not a big fan of the definitions, but worth noting that he was considered 'world class' in 1988, 1992 and 1993 - no Bundesliga defender in the pool trumps that. One of his biggest fans was the Kaiser who, as West German manager in 1990, told the sweeper that had he been German, he'd have been starting for the XI that won Italia '90.

Rune Bratseth showed that he was the clear leader of the team. He plans to retire from the international scene and take up the position of manager of the Norwegian club side Rosenberg Trondheim . It was he who held the team together and was instrumental in seeing that the coach's tactics were carried out on the field.

Bremen made up for the loss of Gunnar Sauer brilliantly with Rune Bratseth taking over that role after Sauer's initial replacement Michael Kutzop was also injured. The Norwegian, who is already in a class of his own as a marker, showcased impressively that he also knows how to interpet the role of libero in a brilliant way. The 1,93 meters tall defender, who Otto Rehhagel bought two years ago for 300,000 Marks from the Norwegian champion Rosenborg Trondheim, convinces with his versatility. In defense, he is almost insurmountable due to his pace, heading prowess and overview and as a libero, he also makes use of his freedom to roam forward stupendously. Bratseth's constantly above average performances, especially in the European Cup, tipped the balance to rate him as 'world class'. The brave 'Viking' would certainly play an outstanding role in any other European league, too. It also speaks for the deeply religious Bratseth that he does not intend to move southwards ("I feel well in Bremen, money is not everything").

With regards to his role and in particular up against Eto'o, his pace and sweeping ability makes him a really good fit for the job in hand.

 

[The Stain]

Gio doesn't need a 10. If we ignore the obvious duo of Veron/Ballack and the superb wingers.. He has Ibra. Obviously at his Juve days he wasn't the player he turned in to. Arriving from Ajax was this lean player without much muscle unlike today. He was more playing to excite, to dribble, to please the crowds. He lacked the unquestionable winners' attitude he has today. He had good entertainment-value at Juve and turned out to be a decent player to break the offside-traps and play on the counter but he lacked maturity, the positioning and decision making were off tune.

Capello's vision of the player Zlatan could turn in to was different, though.. He has a lot to thank the italian for (even though the man himself would never admit to it, he's been quoted saying; "i learned more in 3 months under Mourinho than in five years under Capello and Mancini).

He had a big hand in turning Ibra in to a winner, made him put on muscle. His progression didn't reap rewards for Juve but helped Zlatan immensely. He had to fight to be the main man against Trezeguet. He came out on top but it didn't show in the stats, so tactically i feel Capello used him unwisely. Obviously Juve won the league both seasons he was there but we know what happened next.

Juve were sent to Serie B after the scandal and many chose to leave for top flight clubs. Zlatan had plenty of offers but settled for Inter. He enjoyed two decent season but he really came to life in his last season at the club. Here begins the Mourinho "love story".

From what i remember, José wanted to bring Drogba but quickly realized there was no need. The pair only enjoyed a season together but what a season it turned out to be. He was magnificent, finishing as top scorer in the league with 25 goals. He had been injured a few games towards the end but made the bench for the game against Parma where Inter could clinch the title. It was 0-0 at half time. Mourinho subbed on Zlatan at half time and this happened:

​

Second goal is a carbon copy of the decisive goal he scored in the 1-0 win in El Clasico.

​

He started well at Barcelona. Scoring in his first five league games which is a Barca record. People want to class his time at Barca as a failure but you have to remember that a certain Messi put in a request with Pep to play centrally. The GOAT clearly didn't like that the new arrival was stealing the limelight. Zlatan was often deployed on a wing which was clearly mad.

"Why buy a Ferrari if you're going to drive it like a Fiat?"

After that you know he had a fallout with Pep and he couldn't take it anymore so Barca had no choice but to sell him for a cut-price.

​

Milan was his next destination. This stint probably edges it for me over his time at Inter. His last season at Inter was great, he was an animal with great goals. It's just his general play at Milan.. The playmaking forward. Putting the team first. Knowing when to give and go. He was the main man at Inter but i'd say he was even more so at Milan. His second season he scored 28 goals in the league which is his highest number in a season in Italy.

As you might understand by know i absolutely love him to bits. Gio is using him in just the right way here. 4-3-3 where he can come and collect it deeper to playmake. Ballack and the wingers can make decisive runs.

In my lifetime i have not seen a player consistantly score such beautiful goals on a regular basis. Messi is amazing and a scorer of great goals but Zlatan, man (turn off the music)..

​

 

[MJJ]

How is Scholes and Carrick comparable to Pep and Khedira?

And Ballack is a great man to haunt down Pep, he runs constantly and has a great work rate in this 8/10 hybrid role

Its scholes and carrick vs pep,khedira and sneijder. And where did I say it was comparable? I was arguing against the point that you require midfielders with high work rate to play a defensive,counter game.

 

[MJJ]

Hugely influential in Werder Bremen's understated team of the mid-to-late 1980s and early 1990s, libero Bratseth was three-times Norwegian Player of the Year and was named the country's greatest ever player by the Norwegian FA. Duelled with Jurgen Kohler for the Bundesliga's best defender in Kicker magazine's ratings, ranking first in 1988/89 and 1992/93, and second (behind Kohler) in 1987/88. I'm not a big fan of the definitions, but worth noting that he was considered 'world class' in 1988, 1992 and 1993 - no Bundesliga defender in the pool trumps that. One of his biggest fans was the Kaiser who, as West German manager in 1990, told the sweeper that had he been German, he'd have been starting for the XI that won Italia '90.




With regards to his role and in particular up against Eto'o, his pace and sweeping ability makes him a really good fit for the job in hand.

But if he is a libero, dont you require a tucked in fullback or a DM who will be more comfortable dropping deep when he makes one of his trademark(according to that article) run forwards? Playing a libero alongside two attacking fullbacks seems like a tactical mishap to me. Unless am getting his playing style wrong, and he was more defensive? If so, I apologize. Thats the impression I got from the article you posted.

 

[MJJ]

Gio doesn't need a 10. If we ignore the obvious duo of Veron/Ballack and the superb wingers.. He has Ibra. Obviously at his Juve days he wasn't the player he turned in to. Arriving from Ajax was this lean player without much muscle unlike today. He was more playing to excite, to dribble, to please the crowds. He lacked the unquestionable winners' attitude he has today. He had good entertainment-value at Juve and turned out to be a decent player to break the offside-traps and play on the counter but he lacked maturity, the positioning and decision making were off tune.

Capello's vision of the player Zlatan could turn in to was different, though.. He has a lot to thank the italian for (even though the man himself would never admit to it, he's been quoted saying; "i learned more in 3 months under Mourinho than in five years under Capello and Mancini).

He had a big hand in turning Ibra in to a winner, made him put on muscle. His progression didn't reap rewards for Juve but helped Zlatan immensely. He had to fight to be the main man against Trezeguet. He came out on top but it didn't show in the stats, so tactically i feel Capello used him unwisely. Obviously Juve won the league both seasons he was there but we know what happened next.

Juve were sent to Serie B after the scandal and many chose to leave for top flight clubs. Zlatan had plenty of offers but settled for Inter. He enjoyed two decent season but he really came to life in his last season at the club. Here begins the Mourinho "love story".

From what i remember, José wanted to bring Drogba but quickly realized there was no need. The pair only enjoyed a season together but what a season it turned out to be. He was magnificent, finishing as top scorer in the league with 25 goals. He had been injured a few games towards the end but made the bench for the game against Parma where Inter could clinch the title. It was 0-0 at half time. Mourinho subbed on Zlatan at half time and this happened:

​

Second goal is a carbon copy of the decisive goal he scored in the 1-0 win in El Clasico.

​

He started well at Barcelona. Scoring in his first five league games which is a Barca record. People want to class his time at Barca as a failure but you have to remember that a certain Messi put in a request with Pep to play centrally. The GOAT clearly didn't like that the new arrival was stealing the limelight. Zlatan was often deployed on a wing which was clearly mad.



After that you know he had a fallout with Pep and he couldn't take it anymore so Barca had no choice but to sell him for a cut-price.

​

Milan was his next destination. This stint probably edges it for me over his time at Inter. His last season at Inter was great, he was an animal with great goals. It's just his general play at Milan.. The playmaking forward. Putting the team first. Knowing when to give and go. He was the main man at Inter but i'd say he was even more so at Milan. His second season he scored 28 goals in the league which is his highest number in a season in Italy.

As you might understand by know i absolutely love him to bits. Gio is using him in just the right way here. 4-3-3 where he can come and collect it deeper to playmake. Ballack and the wingers can make decisive runs.

In my lifetime i have not seen a player consistantly score such beautiful goals on a regular basis. Messi is amazing and a scorer of great goals but Zlatan, man (turn off the music)..

​

I know you love him but to make best use of ibra's ability you need a wing-forward more than two traditional wingers.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

This ballon comparing business isn't all that interesting, to be honest.

What's evident, however, is that Michel isn't out of his depth here.

Also agree with everything which has been said about the balance and functionality of that Pep-Khedira-Sneijder axis. Don't see that working very well at all.

As for Müller on the left, that's potentially tricky. If it's the "proven" argument, I have no time for it. The only relevant question is whether he would work - and to what degree - in that role, in this set-up. Or, to be more precise, the actual question is whether he loses a signficant part of his best game by having to start, nominally, on the left. I don't think the answer to that is obvious given the sort of player Müller is.

The CL/league conundrum: It's no conundrum. The theme of the draft is what it is. In many cases, managers do not focus specifically on league form - they just go with the general impression Player X gave at Club Y, rather than focusing on league form specifically. But if a manager can demonstrate that Player X's performances during the relevant period were less impressive in the league than in other tournaments, this is a valid point - and ignoring it amounts to ignoring the actual premise of the draft itself.

I tried to raise this point at the beginning of the draft, btw. I personally think there is something unnatural about isolating performances in one tournament when assessing a player. Football doesn't work like that - a season has its own rhythm, players do feature in multiple tournaments and it shapes their overall performance in any given season.

But the premise is given - it can't be disregarded.

 

[The Stain]

I know you love him but to make best use of ibra's ability you need a wing-forward more than two traditional wingers.

 

[MJJ]

Good argument.

 

[Enigma_87]

Hugely influential in Werder Bremen's understated team of the mid-to-late 1980s and early 1990s, libero Bratseth was three-times Norwegian Player of the Year and was named the country's greatest ever player by the Norwegian FA. Duelled with Jurgen Kohler for the Bundesliga's best defender in Kicker magazine's ratings, ranking first in 1988/89 and 1992/93, and second (behind Kohler) in 1987/88. I'm not a big fan of the definitions, but worth noting that he was considered 'world class' in 1988, 1992 and 1993 - no Bundesliga defender in the pool trumps that. One of his biggest fans was the Kaiser who, as West German manager in 1990, told the sweeper that had he been German, he'd have been starting for the XI that won Italia '90.




With regards to his role and in particular up against Eto'o, his pace and sweeping ability makes him a really good fit for the job in hand.

That's a nice summary. The question for me is how fast and agile he was, admittedly don't know much about him as well, as he'll be up against Eto'o. And having in mind the trouble Vidic had with his pace/versatility I think this is the key here.

From various sources I see him listed as 1.93 and 88/89 kilos. Now the BuLi is kinda slower league in terms of pace(although of course Balu can address that during those years), so how good was he in his response against fast and agile strikers?

 

[MJJ]

This ballon comparing business isn't all that interesting, to be honest.

What's evident, however, is that Michel isn't out of his depth here.

Also agree with everything which has been said about the balance and functionality of that Pep-Khedira-Sneijder axis. Don't see that working very well at all.

As for Müller on the left, that's potentially tricky. If it's the "proven" argument, I have no time for it. The only relevant question is whether he would work - and to what degree - in that role, in this set-up. Or, to be more precise, the actual question is whether he loses a signficant part of his best game by having to start, nominally, on the left. I don't think the answer to that is obvious given the sort of player Müller is.

The CL/league conundrum: It's no conundrum. The theme of the draft is what it is. In many cases, managers do not focus specifically on league form - they just go with the general impression Player X gave at Club Y, rather than focusing on league form specifically. But if a manager can demonstrate that Player X's performances during the relevant period were less impressive in the league than in other tournaments, this is a valid point - and ignoring it amounts to ignoring the actual premise of the draft itself.

I tried to raise this point at the beginning of the draft, btw. I personally think there is something unnatural about isolating performances in one tournament when assessing a player. Football doesn't work like that - a season has its own rhythm, players do feature in multiple tournaments and it shapes their overall performance in any given season.

But the premise is given - it can't be disregarded.

Voted already? that was quick.

 

[Gio]

But if he is a libero, dont you require a tucked in fullback or a DM who will be more comfortable dropping deep when he makes one of his trademark(according to that article) run forwards? Playing a libero alongside two attacking fullbacks seems like a tactical mishap to me. Unless am getting his playing style wrong, and he was more defensive? If so, I apologize. Thats the impression I got from the article you posted.

It's a good question to ask in fairness. But he excelled as a man-marking centre-half, as a sweeping centre-half, and as a libero. His performances in the Bundesliga testify to that. As a libero he was more conservative than your careering Passarella or even Lucio types, which Kicker attributes to his Scandinavian upbringing (us Northern Europeans are a boring bunch aren't we).

The tall, athletic Norwegian defender came to Bremen in 1986 where Otto Rehhagel first used him as a man-marker, a position he soon made a name for himself due to his fairness and calm way of going on about his task. However he really started to blossom when he was freed of marking duties in late-1988 when Rehhagel looked for a new libero as the injury-prone Gunnar Sauer needed to be replaced permanently. Rehhagel realized pretty soon that a very intelligent player like Bratseth was somewhat wasted as a marker, and when Sauer missed more and more games the decision was easy. His interpretation of the free role was conservative, more in tradition of a Willi Schulz than a Franz Beckenbauer, owing to Rehhagel’s conservative approach as well as Bratseth’s upbringing as a Scandinavian central defender in a flat back four, where no nonsense mentalities were more common for defenders than in the continental game with its libero tradition. On the pitch Bratseth distinguished himself with his fast acceleration (for his type of player), excellent positioning, great overview, technique and his personality.

 

[Stobzilla]

It is an absolute murder in the middle of the park.

Veron to Ibra, Nedved knocking in crosses, Michel similar and Ballack making runs beyond Ibra and fecking VERON in general !!!

 

[The Stain]

Good argument.

I thought it was a perfectly fine response to the nonsense you posted. All he needs are runners and he has plenty of those around him.

 

[Gio]

That's a nice summary. The question for me is how fast and agile he was, admittedly don't know much about him as well, as he'll be up against Eto'o. And having in mind the trouble Vidic had with his pace/versatility I think this is the key here.

From various sources I see him listed as 1.93 and 88/89 kilos. Now the BuLi is kinda slower league in terms of pace(although of course Balu can address that during those years), so how good was he in his response against fast and agile strikers?

See the Kicker quote above which again testifies to his acceleration despite the larger frame. He partners Puyol really well, basically a better, sharper and more imposing Pique in some ways.

 

[MJJ]

It's a good question to ask in fairness. But he excelled as a man-marking centre-half, as a sweeping centre-half, and as a libero. His performances in the Bundesliga testify to that. As a libero he was more conservative than your careering Passarella or even Lucio types, which Kicker attributes to his Scandinavian upbringing (us Northern Europeans are a boring bunch aren't we).

In that case, I withdraw my question about him. Seems like he is well suited to play the role you have given him here, although enigma has a valid question about the game being played at a slower pace in the bundesliga.

It is an absolute murder in the middle of the park.

Veron to Ibra, Nedved knocking in crosses, Michel similar and Ballack making runs beyond Ibra and fecking VERON in general !!!

Erm where are samuel,silva,abidal and sagnol in this fantasy?

I thought it was a perfectly fine response to the nonsense you posted. All he needs are runners and he has plenty of those around him.

Okay, the great ibra is going to make players who arent typically goal scorers score goal by his magic ego. Got it.

 

[Enigma_87]

See the Kicker quote above which again testifies to his acceleration despite the larger frame. He partners Puyol really well, basically a better, sharper and more imposing Pique in some ways.

Yeah I saw it but sounded more like fast acceleration for a tall guy kinda way.

fast acceleration (for his type of player)

I'll dig up something off youtube to get the general idea, sounds interesting.

 

[MJJ]

Its hard to believe that posters on a united forum are only focused on midfield when our greatest success in recent period came when the midfield was the weakest area.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Voted already? that was quick.

Heh, no - I made up my mind before posting, just didn't literally cast it straight away. Not too difficult to call for me, as I simply don't see that midfield combo as being able to do the business here. That's the reason, if you will. Otherwise it's tight enough.

 

[Moby]

Now the BuLi is kinda slower league in terms of pace

Really? That's the first time I'm hearing that. They have been blessed with highly dynamic, fast and agile strikers over the years.
A quick check reveals the following names who were playing in the league during his time: Klinsmann, Voller, Rahn, Reich, Allofs, Walter, Wohlfarth, Kirsten, Kuntz, etc. A pretty decent assortment to be fair.

 

[Moby]

It is an absolute murder in the middle of the park.

Veron to Ibra, Nedved knocking in crosses, Michel similar and Ballack making runs beyond Ibra and fecking VERON in general !!!

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Its hard to believe that posters on a united forum are only focused on midfield when our greatest success in recent period came when the midfield was the weakest area.

Yeah, but we weren't playing fantasy teams. Not until 2009, that is. And when we did play a fantasy team of sorts, we came up terribly short.

 

[MJJ]

Heh, no - I made up my mind before posting, just didn't literally cast it straight away. Not too difficult to call for me, as I simply don't see that midfield combo as being able to do the business here. That's the reason, if you will. Otherwise it's tight enough.

I agree, thats why we conceded the midfield to him but all they have to do is make sure they close down avenues in the middle which they are all capable of doing. We have the better attack and a slightly better defense which should in reality make up for a relinquishing control of the midfield area.

 

[Balu]

That pace argument seems rather absurd compared to Serie A or La Liga to be honest. It gets constantly blown out of proportion regarding the PL, but in a comparison with Serie A and La Liga surely the Bundesliga is the rather open, direct and pacey league if anyone wants to make that point?

 

[Stobzilla]

Its hard to believe that posters on a united forum are only focused on midfield when our greatest success in recent period came when the midfield was the weakest area.

 

[MJJ]

Yeah, but we weren't playing fantasy teams. Not until 2009, that is. And when we did play a fantasy team of sorts, we came up terribly short.

I wouldnt say gio's side is a fantasy side. It seems like a fairly balanced one that would probably get destroyed by that barca side as well.

 

[Moby]

I'll dig up something off youtube to get the general idea, sounds interesting.

Found this 13 second run on another page I was researching him at. Insane goal if nothing else

 

[Enigma_87]

Really? That's the first time I'm hearing that. They have been blessed with highly dynamic, fast and agile strikers over the years.
A quick check reveals the following names who were playing in the league during his time: Klinsmann, Voller, Rahn, Reich, Allofs, Walter, Wohlfarth, Kirsten, Kuntz, etc. A pretty decent assortment to be fair.

I meant generally in the 90's/00's. I don't have idea in the 80's hence I think Balu can clarify that during that time. Or someone with first hand experience.

 

[Stobzilla]

Erm where are samuel,silva,abidal and sagnol in this fantasy?

Saying to each other "feck me, our midfield can't get close to Veron"