La Liga/Serie A/BuLi Draft - 1st Rd Enigma_87/Snow vs Tuppet

[Enigma_87]

I am sorry but you really have to see how many games Carlos, Laudrup, Zanetti and Caniggia have won for their teams. Its not about numbers I could potentially have employed 2 more strikers and claim that I have more goal scorers so I win. If Marcelo gets beaten over and over, one of those opportunities is going to lead to a goal, Salgado is also going to have trouble against Carlos and Laudrup.

Marcelo being beaten over and over is a nice exaggeration. What about Nadal being beaten over and over in much dangerous area by Villa, Vialli or Kaka?

Salgado has Schneider to aid him when you drift out wide - who has excellent work rate.

As for harms question, Laudrup really floated all over the front line, he is employed as a wide forward who has a license to cut inside, this role is not different at all from what he had in Bayern. There are multiple clips of him doing exactly that in this video -

I think you should check the quote above for Laudrup - he complained about not having that creative and free role freedom you are claiming here himself.

 

[Tuppet]

Marcelo being beaten over and over is a nice exaggeration. What about Nadal being beaten over and over in much dangerous area by Villa, Vialli or Kaka?

Salgado has Schneider to aid him when you drift out wide - who has excellent work rate.



I think you should check the quote above for Laudrup - he complained about not having that creative and free role freedom you are claiming here himself.

Thats very confusing so Bayern did not give him a free role and creative freedom so I shouldn't either ? If anything it shows his class to still shine through even when he was shackled.

And on Marcelo getting beaten its no exaggeration, I put the sources up there. Also Nadal being a weak defender is just something you conjured up. I guess the voters can make their mind (They are making it on your side so you probably dont have to worry )

 

[Enigma_87]

Thats very confusing so Bayern did not give him a free role and creative freedom so I shouldn't either ? If anything it shows his class to still shine through even when he was shackled.

Here's a quote from him:

'When I didn't play well, I was a six million flop'
He went to Germany with Bayer Uerdingen at the age of 20, excelled for a season and then signed for Bayern Munich. He had a young son of his own by then and a whole heap of pressure. He was the most expensive player in the Bundesliga.

He recalls: "In Bild Zeitung, the big newspaper, every time I didn't play well I was a six million flop and when I played well it was, 'Well, this is what you expect for that kind of money.' I couldn't win."

Laudrup was searching for something elusive - a freedom to express himself, just as his older brother was doing at Barcelona. He played well in his first season at Bayern but they finished second in the Bundesliga. "Second is nothing at Bayern."

How about 10th? That's where Bayern finished in his second season, much of it spoiled by a horrendous knee injury.

It was approaching the summer of 1992 and Laudrup was lost. Unsure about his fitness and uncertain about where he was going to be playing his football. Not at Bayern, he was sure of that.

To be fair I think it was a genuine mistake to use him in your BuLi quota, mate. He was young up and comer but largely inconsistent. When in Seria A he was better and close to his best, but IMO his best was at Rangers where he was given the freedom to express himself.

 

[Tuppet]

Here's a quote from him:

I honestly have no idea what you are trying to show by that quote, he is saying if he doesn't play well he is a flop and if he does play well (the part you did not highlight) he is worth the money. Hardly any ground breaking revelation. And yeah he left Bayern after 2 seasons, your point again ?

That quote also says that played well in his first season and when he was hampered by a knee injury Bayern plummeted to 10th position. Are you having pity at my 0 votes and putting posts in my favor ?

 

[Enigma_87]

I honestly have no idea what you are trying to show by that quote, he is saying if he doesn't play well he is a flop and if he does play well (the part you did not highlight) he is worth the money. Hardly any ground breaking revelation. And yeah he left Bayern after 2 seasons, your point again ?

That he was quite inconsistent young and promising winger, but his later years he hit top form. His stay at Bayern overall is underwhelming. I don't think it's close to his peak level.

He got awards and won the EURO alright but honestly do you see him at his best at Bayern?

To me, it's a bit of a shoehorning him to fit the BuLi quota. He clearly wasn't happy there and that affected his performances. That and the added inconsistency for every young and creative lad.

 

[Tuppet]

That he was quite inconsistent young and promising winger, but his later years he hit top form. His stay at Bayern overall is underwhelming. I don't think it's close to his peak level.

He got awards and won the EURO alright but honestly do you see him at his best at Bayern?

Who cares about his peak level and later career? I am specifically talking about his finishing as 6th best attacker in the league, his fantastic dribbling which was evident, his getting 6th place in Ballon D'or during the same time and his winning Danish player of the year (over elder brother Laudrup) at the same time.

 

[Enigma_87]

Who cares about his peak level and later career? I am specifically talking about his finishing as 6th best attacker in the league, his fantastic dribbling which was evident, his getting 6th place in Ballon D'or during the same time and his winning Danish player of the year (over elder brother Laudrup) at the same time.

Erm isn't that the point of league peak draft?

He was 6th due to the EURO's performance. Do you honestly think he was great at BuLi that season missing half of it sidelined?

 

[Tuppet]

Erm isn't that the point of league peak draft?

He was 6th due to the EURO's performance. Do you honestly think he was great at BuLi that season missing half of it sidelined?

Again I am getting all kind of confused, I was answering to the following quotations in which you are saying you don't think he is close to his peak level, thats what I am answering by saying that I don't care what you consider his peak level, he was clearly a fantastic player even in bayern, which is evident from Kicker and Ballon D'or ratings.

That he was quite inconsistent young and promising winger, but his later years he hit top form. His stay at Bayern overall is underwhelming. I don't think it's close to his peak level.

 

[Theon]

Tuppet's flanks look fantastic and I think the opposition fullbacks are liable to get exposed defensively. Neither were top quality but they're both facing a very dangerous fullback/winger combination - particularly on the left where Roberto Carlos and Laudrup should have the beating of Salgado throughout the match.

That wide threat is presumably going to limit the Salgado/Marcelo attacking contribution which may stifle things for Enigma slightly in attack as well given the set up that they've gone for.

I also disagree on the criticism of Miguel Nadal which is way over the top.

 

[Tuppet]

Alright I would like to know a bit more about your plan to handle Caniggia + Zanetti combo and counter on that side. Either Modric is not moving forward when your team in in possession or Marcelo is not moving forward, both cases I don't see happening. What would happen when a quick counter break out and Marcelo find himself in a no man's zone as usual ?

 

[Enigma_87]

Again I am getting all kind of confused, I was answering to the following quotations in which you are saying you don't think he is close to his peak level, thats what I am answering by saying that I don't care what you consider his peak level, he was clearly a fantastic player even in bayern, which is evident from Kicker and Ballon D'or ratings.

So he deserved his Ballon D'Or rating for his performance at Bayern in 92, is that what you are saying? For 15 games when he returned in February till May(due to an injury that took him for half of the season) in a Bayern team that finished 10th in the table?

 

[Snow]

Mate I guess people would decide if Nadal is a bad defender or not
Anyway if we have to think about a bad defender, how about Marcelo ?

Marcelo has now entered his tenth season with Real Madrid and still has the odd defensive positioning or awareness issue. He is who he is - an above-average attacking wing-back who can create goals in times of need but can cost you points due to defensive lapses.

Marcelo is prodigious at what he does offensively but can be disturbingly bad when it comes to defending - both in extremes. The 27-year-old Brazilian has improved remarkably on the offensive side in this time - to the point where in the past couple of campaigns, his attacking prowess and ability to unlock defensive walls has outweighed his defensive deficiencies and earned him a starting role. But somehow, now as a veteran and captain of Real Madrid (second in line to Sergio Ramos), Marcelo has still not nailed down the defensive side and his weaknesses might be shown up come the business end of the season.

Here he would be against Caniggia + Zanetti combo, if there is a mismatch its this one.

Familiar problems

When Marcelo gets beaten on the flank, Madrid rely on using one of the central defenders or midfielders to cover for him, which stretches the defense and opens channels for the opposing team.

But it’s not just when he gets beaten one-on-one which causes his team-mates to exert extra effort, it’s simple things like tracking back that Marcelo suffers with.

In this case, Marcelo fails to anticipate Gerard Moreno’s run on the give-and-go, and when he finally does realise what’s happening, he casually jogs back as a spectator while Pepe runs across to make a tackle.

In another example of poor defensive awareness this season - a tense match at San Mames - Marcelo neither commits to the winger with the ball nor tracks to mark the player making the run in behind the defense. Marcelo is caught in the middle of his two options - essentially the worst place to be.

On an ensuing possession, he fails to realise that Markel Susaeta has made an immediate run after releasing the ball. Once again, Marcelo is one step behind, and by the time he works it out Susaeta has broken free on the flank and is able to make an uncontested cross into the penalty area.

Furthermore, on another possession, Marcelo attempts to clog the middle when central defender Raphael Varane is already covering that space, leaving his man completely open on the flank.

Two minutes later, Marcelo lunges in rather than simply keeping his man in front of him. Attackers relish when opposing defenders dive in, knowing they need just a touch to get by and swing in a cross.

In the second half, Marcelo continues his defensive lapses. One instance sees him overcommit himself to chase the ball, leaving a man behind him completely free in a dangerous position. This is where defensive awareness has to come into play: the realisation that it’s most important to track the man making the run rather than running out to the man in possession of the ball which only leaves the defence exposed.

It is no coincidence then, that Real Madrid’s lone conceded goal this season has come from Marcelo’s defensive negligence. It came on this play, where Bilbao had won the ball in midfield and Marcelo was making a run forward. Rather than immediately tracking back full steam, Marcelo took a gamble and tried to stop the counter-attack which only afforded more freedom to the man behind him.

In the first case Real Madrid are up 4-0 after 30 minutes and Espanyol were attacking with two players. They still didn't concede.

Marcelo's role is very comparable to R. Carlos'. Both players had the whole left flank for themselves and no help from wingers like the right full back. At the same time they were not expected to do the same defensive work as the right back. And that goal they conceded where they lost the ball inside their own half and there was no marking on the far post where the pass came. Definitely all on Marcelo.

Good on you though for looking into one game and stereotype a player based on that isolated incidents in without context from one game.

Goals conceded each season on average during R. Carlos' time: 44.3
Goals conceded each season on average during Marcelo's time: 38.25
2006-07 season is excluded.

I'm not going to argue that Marcelo is better than Carlos defensively or anything like that by pointing out this fact. I'm not going to argue that it's all thanks to Casillas being on the vane, Ramos and Pepe as CB's or the lack of Makelele or his type for most of Marcelo's tenure but it does show that R. Carlos' tenure with Real didn't produce solid defensive performances throughout his time with Makelele, Hierro and Casillas in their prime etc.

 

[Enigma_87]

Tuppet's flanks look fantastic and I think the opposition fullbacks are liable to get exposed defensively. Neither were top quality but they're both facing a very dangerous fullback/winger combination - particularly on the left where Roberto Carlos and Laudrup should have the beating of Salgado throughout the match.

That wide threat is presumably going to limit the Salgado/Marcelo attacking contribution which may stifle things for Enigma slightly in attack as well given the set up that they've gone for.

I also disagree on the criticism of Miguel Nadal which is way over the top.

We have a strong midfield and central core which can limit the disadvantage on the flanks. We have much more firepower up front as well. Most teams in the draft are set with a stronger central core for a reason.

I'm curious to see a feedback from some of the Spanish supporters on Nadal. From what I know of him and seen as well he wasn't that rated defensively. IMO he's much more of a liability in a much more dangerous position than our flanks.

Alright I would like to know a bit more about your plan to handle Caniggia + Zanetti combo and counter on that side. Either Modric is not moving forward when your team in in possession or Marcelo is not moving forward, both cases I don't see happening. What would happen when a quick counter break out and Marcelo find himself in a no man's zone as usual ?

We have players to cover for each other as noted in the brief. We'll cover pretty much the zones which those two operate. We don't have man markers assigned as I don't find a reason to do so. Our midfield has the ability to close their man down very quickly. Carlos is known also to bomb forward, we'll have Schneider as well to roam in that area on a counter, while Laudrup won't provide the work rate in midfield, same as Caniggia and for that matter Riquelme as well.

 

[Tuppet]

So he deserved his Ballon D'Or rating for his performance at Bayern in 92, is that what you are saying? For 15 games when he returned in February till May(due to an injury that took him for half of the season) in a Bayern team that finished 10th in the table?

Mate you are not listening, I am not saying that. I am saying he got it while still at Bundesliga, he was the same player, just injured. Its not like he was in a different era past his peak or way before his peak or something. He got it the same year. Anyway if you want to discount that he was still pretty good in his first season in Bayern and the season before in Uerdingen (Bundesliga) (which led to his buy from Bayern).

 

[Tuppet]

In the first case Real Madrid are up 4-0 after 30 minutes and Espanyol were attacking with two players. They still didn't concede.

Marcelo's role is very comparable to R. Carlos'. Both players had the whole left flank for themselves and no help from wingers like the right full back. At the same time they were not expected to do the same defensive work as the right back. And that goal they conceded where they lost the ball inside their own half and there was no marking on the far post where the pass came. Definitely all on Marcelo.

Good on you though for looking into one game and stereotype a player based on that isolated incidents in without context from one game.

Goals conceded each season on average during R. Carlos' time: 44.3
Goals conceded each season on average during Marcelo's time: 38.25
2006-07 season is excluded.

I'm not going to argue that Marcelo is better than Carlos defensively or anything like that by pointing out this fact. I'm not going to argue that it's all thanks to Casillas being on the vane, Ramos and Pepe as CB's or the lack of Makelele or his type for most of Marcelo's tenure but it does show that R. Carlos' tenure with Real didn't produce solid defensive performances throughout his time with Makelele, Hierro and Casillas in their prime etc.

I don't see the point of not conceding, surely its not because of Marcelo. And yes you are right his role was similar to Carlos in Real Madrid. But is his role the same here, are you saying that you would have the same attacking wing back Marcelo here who is not defensively solid. Even if say Roberto Carlos is similarly bad at defending (which he is not) I can afford it because you have no real wide threat but are you saying that Marcelo can do the same against a flank of Caniggia and Zanetti ?

And yes I am sorry I got time to watch just one game, in which he made like a zillion mistakes.

 

[Balu]

Brian complained a lot about the media (often about the public comments Beckenbauer and Rummenigge constantly made, which added unnecessary pressure on the young players in the squad) during his time with us. It's difficult to rate his time with us, because the club was in turmoil which eventually lead to a lot of mistakes being made. Rummenigge and Beckenbauer came into the club and tried to change things, which lead to a bit of a power struggle with Hoeneß. It also cost Heynckes his job when we massively fecked up the rebuilding of the team. Brian was clearly talented and at times played really well, but with his injury in the 2nd season and his overall underwhelming performances (in a heavily struggling team) it's impossible to call his time at Bayern a success. He usually played as a 2nd striker, but I guess with a bit of leeway, we could argue that he plays a inside left-ish role with Carlos providing width here and that's not that far off his role during his time with us. He never played as great for us as he did at the Euro 1992 though. That being said, he was a good player in the Bundesliga.

 

[Theon]

We have a strong midfield and central core which can limit the disadvantage on the flanks. We have much more firepower up front as well. Most teams in the draft are set with a stronger central core for a reason.

Yes you have more goalscorers on the pitch than Tuppet but that doesn't necessarily mean anything by itself - anyone can cram strikers or forwards into the team, at the sake of balance elsewhere for instance.

Most teams are set up in a diamond due to the lack of wingers in the draft. There are much more top tier strikers than there are wingers, it's nothing to do with an advantage in the system or anything like that, which would be nonsense.

 

[Enigma_87]

Mate you are not listening, I am not saying that. I am saying he got it while still at Bundesliga, he was the same player, just injured. Its not like he was in a different era past his peak or way before his peak or something. He got it the same year. Anyway if you want to discount that he was still pretty good in his first season in Bayern and the season before in Uerdingen (Bundesliga) (which led to his buy from Bayern).

It doesn't really matter mate, that's what I'm saying. He deserved that rating for his performances in Danemark shirt, not in Bayern shirt. I don't think it's fair to use that as an example given the format. His time at Bayern was short, he wasn't happy and he was often criticized and called a flop. He himself said his best years were at Rangers where he can express himself.

If you think he was at his peak during that time, we can agree to disagree, to me he was as noted above - inconsistent, still developing, injured and also criticized by the press a lot due to his price tag.

Yes you have more goalscorers on the pitch than Tuppet but that doesn't necessarily mean anything by itself - anyone can cram strikers or forward into the team, at the sake of balance elsewhere for instance.

Most teams are set up in a diamond due to the lack of wingers in the draft. There are much more top tier strikers than there are wingers, it's nothing to do with an advantage in the system or anything like that, which would be nonsense.

nah, not saying we have advantage due to the formation, I think we have a balanced squad that has width in it despite being a diamond formation. We also have fluidity through the lines which helps in both phases. I think all 11 work pretty well between them and combine well.

 

[Snow]

Who cares about his peak level and later career? I am specifically talking about his finishing as 6th best attacker in the league, his fantastic dribbling which was evident, his getting 6th place in Ballon D'or during the same time and his winning Danish player of the year (over elder brother Laudrup) at the same time.

He was a fantastic dribbler that did most of his dribbling from the right side of the pitch.

He was a very popular player. I know because during that time I lived in Denmark and he was my favorite. Him being 5th in the Fifa awards is clear example of how much those awards are based upon recognizing names. Laudrup wasn't one of the tree best players that tournament yet he's 5th in the world based on that tournament and ahead of Schmeichel even. He was good but it was after a season of injuries with Bayern, just turning up for the NT again in time for the tournament and having a good overall tournament but he was definitely not the best.

 

[Tuppet]

It doesn't really matter mate, that's what I'm saying. He deserved that rating for his performances in Danemark shirt, not in Bayern shirt. I don't think it's fair to use that as an example given the format. His time at Bayern was short, he wasn't happy and he was often criticized and called a flop. He himself said his best years were at Rangers where he can express himself.

If you think he was at his peak during that time, we can agree to disagree, to me he was as noted above - inconsistent, still developing, injured and also criticized by the press a lot due to his price tag.

But I never said he was at his peak. I don't really care about his career peak at all. What I am saying that he was a good player in Bundesliga and that shows in his ratings. He was never settled and club in turmoil part adds to his failure to succeed in Bayern, but it was clear that he is quite good.

 

[Tuppet]

OMG I got a vote, only need 4 more votes to get to 5 votes and lose

 

[Tuppet]

Ok, so since everyone has decided that Riquelme has just disappeared, when Modric is defending left and Schnider is defending right, Conte is handling Riquelme alone. Guys for gods sakes just watch the video -



There is no player on the pitch of his vision and passing range. If anyone can supply a defense splitting through ball to Voller its this dude, his laziness is a non factor as he is not required to do any defending work anyway. He is a genius and could be a game decider.

 

[Enigma_87]

Nobody has disappeared. We have a highly mobile midfield that can cover a lot of ground

There is no player on the pitch of his vision and passing range.

Erm... I don't know, maybe - Kaka? Modric?

 

[Tuppet]

Playing with Egnache
​

So whats the point of having a lazy player on the pitch ? An old school number 10 who would just be crowded out by more energetic midfielders every time he face them ? The point is to play the Argentina way, to play like an Egnache.

Egnache sits at the top of the midfield, what he requires is a hard working midfield behind him and players making darting runs around him, on rushing wingbacks, wide forwards and box to box midfielders. What he needs is passing options as he can pass anywhere he likes. He must have the vision and technique to get the ball to the feet or right in front of the player he wants. He uses his dribbling not as a tool to go past players at fast an furious speed, but as a tool to draw defenders to him when in possession and once he has beaten them he would place the pin point pass to the forward. When set in a right system and not expected to do dirty work, Egnache can provide moments of magic and is really really hard to stop.

Riqueleme is the last modern time Egnache, his rhythm of passing, his dribbling, his vision and technique makes it almost impossible to nullify him in a right system. He would look to draw defenders to him, freeing up some attackers and releasing the ball, His connection with Caniggia would be absolutely awesome. Checkout few of his dribbling and passing moments -

And here his legendary performance against Real Madrid, where he owned Makelele -

 

[VivaJanuzaj]

Cracking effort from both sets of managers so far

 

[VivaJanuzaj]

R.Carlos & B.Laudrup vs Salgado.. tough one for Snow/Enigma defence

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Nadal has been described too harshly, perhaps, but at the same time I think it's fair enough to point out that he wasn't a great defender. For me he was a team player, fighter, an unselfish bastard who complemented his more shiny mates – and he should get all sorts of credit for that. But he was not a top defender – nowhere near it.

On the flip side, I think it's fair enough to question Marcelo. The actual focus on wide play (with actual wingers) is one of the key differences between the sides. There's a route there, on Marcelo's side, for Zanetti and Caniggia (who would, I think, combine well with each other) – a clear route, as it seems. Doesn't mean it's fatal, but it should be a factor.

 

[Enigma_87]

R.Carlos & B.Laudrup vs Salgado.. tough one for Snow/Enigma defence

Well we will have 2 on 1's in the middle as well especially in heart of defence which IMO is a more dangerous area.

What I like best of our team is the ability to drift wide and also cover the wide areas with and without the ball. This is often the main problem with the diamond formation - too many central players.

In our team however we have Schneider as inside RCM who is a natural on the right as well - he has been played at Bayer as CAM, RM, RCM even right wing back. His versatility is of a great use for us. Kaka also can drift wide to open gaps in the center. Kaka as well is familiar on both wings playing as RW or LW in his early days. Modric can drift wide carrying the ball summoning defenders and midfielders with his excellent ball control and also both Vialli and Villa are no strangers running into channels. IMO our attack is set up nicely to minimize the effect of saturating only the center of the pitch while we are pretty much fluent out wide not relying solely on our full backs to create the width - with also natural goalscorers in Vialli and Villa who don't need many chances to score.

 

[Enigma_87]

Should be made clear in the OP that it's – now – the Spanish version of Kroos. Fair to inform the voters of this in no uncertain terms. In fact, the formation pic is no good to begin with. Needs to be standardized, this thing.

Nadal has been described too harshly, perhaps, but at the same time I think it's fair enough to point out that he wasn't a great defender. For me he was a team player, fighter, an unselfish bastard who complemented his more shiny mates – and he should get all sorts of credit for that. But he was not a top defender – nowhere near it.

On the flip side, I think it's fair enough to question Marcelo. The actual focus on wide play (with actual wingers) is one of the key differences between the sides. There's a route there, on Marcelo's side, for Zanetti and Caniggia (who would, I think, combine well with each other) – a clear route, as it seems. Doesn't mean it's fatal, but it should be a factor.

I think Nadal made most of his career and actually revived his career at Mallorca having no pressure of being part of Barcelona's team. Might sounded a bit harsh, but for me Nadal always had doubts in him defensively. Barca's defensive record after Koeman just confirms that. They were just outscoring the opponent and Nadal had his fair share of drubbings along the way.

It wasn't that uncommon to see some team put 4 or 5 past Barca at the time. His versatility was well welcomed but truth is there were better defenders in that Barcelona team than him.

As for Marcelo I'd understand where most will come from and it's a fair suggestion as I said with Carlos as well(during his time at Real). We do have however players that can close the opponent threat on the left and Helmer/Conte/Modric can help him out in that area if needed or beaten.But since we had an option with Schneider on the right to provide us the width and have more solid defensively RB in Salgado, we needed some extra creativity on the left and there are not many in the draft that would provide that.

I think however we have more creativity as we can attack both wide(as explained above and the players that can operate in channels) but more importantly from the center as well. That and having more of a goal threat, not only purely by the numbers but because Vialli, Villa and Kaka are one of the top players in their time, and in Vialli and Villa's case playing at lesser sides didn't stood in the way of being prolific goalscorers. Villa for example - #2 in 05/06 goal scoring chart with Valencia, #6 06/07(and top assist provider with 12 asists), #5 in 07/08, #3 in 08/09, #4 in 09/10 - 107 goals in that 5 year period with Valencia, and even more he scored about 35% of all Valencia goals in the league in those years - just to show how much they depended on him.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Heh, strike the Kroos/formation pic comment – that was meant for the other match.

 

[berbatrick]

I would usually vote for a formation with width over a diamond because that is a known weakness of the formation, and while this is a spectacular diamond, I don't think it can handle that set of fullbacks+wingers.

 

[Enigma_87]

I like Tuppet's point at drawing defenders around Riquelme because it was what it was all about with Kaka in Seria A.



Just example of how Kaka was tightly marked during his peak at Seria A and how feared he was admits defenders. You will see every time Kaka touches the ball immediately one would try to press him, also drawing another midfielder/defender and usually 3rd watching the space around him. In the Fio video there were couple of examples where Kaka summoned 4-5 opposition players in the space of 10 meters or so. It was pretty rare to leave Kaka one on one, as with his explosive pace he'd usually burn that defender.

I would usually vote for a formation with width over a diamond because that is a known weakness of the formation, and while this is a spectacular diamond, I don't think it can handle that set of fullbacks+wingers.

to be fair I don't think we lack width at all mate. I know the problem with the formation, hence we went with player to do just that - provide width. It's fair to say that all of our attacking players can operate and drop on the wing as they have even played there in their careers(Kaka, Vialli, Villa).

 

[harms]

Exactly what has been always said about R.Carlos by the general public - that he can't defend, only good going forward etc..

It has been said about him, but it's not true for Roberto Carlos, it's true (to some extend) for Marcelo. He can emulate Carlos' attacking contribution (although they are very different players, Carlos was a physical beast and Marcelo's main strength is his ball control and dribbling skills) but he is much worse defensively - and this is why Carlos was a regular in Ballon D'Or lists for example and Marcelo is rightly seen here as a weak link. Just remember the 7-1 game.

 

[Enigma_87]

It has been said about him, but it's not true for Roberto Carlos, it's true (to some extend) for Marcelo. He can emulate Carlos' attacking contribution (although they are very different players, Carlos was a physical beast and Marcelo's main strength is his ball control and dribbling skills) but he is much worse defensively - and this is why Carlos was a regular in Ballon D'Or lists for example and Marcelo is rightly seen here as a weak link. Just remember the 7-1 game.

That Brazil game was unique one that pretty much everything went in. However it's not like Marcelo was the only culprit, Brazil's CB pair was shambles in that game.

Marcelo is needed for the set up to bring that additional spark on the left and IMO he'd receive enough protection when he goes on a run, we have the midfielders to watch into space and also Modric and Marcelo have played together so I can see that mutual understanding on the pitch as they are not strangers to operate in that area.

Having attacking left full back in this set up is quite important I think as on the right side we have the option with Schneider as more natural in the role, while Marcelo offers more natural on the left on his own. We will have the numbers in defensive phase as Kaka, Schneider, Modric contribute to the midfield, unlike Riquelme, Laudrup and Caniggia.

 

[berbatrick]

to be fair I don't think we lack width at all mate. I know the problem with the formation, hence we went with player to do just that - provide width. It's fair to say that all of our attacking players can operate and drop on the wing as they have even played there in their careers(Kaka, Vialli, Villa).

It's an almost-perfect diamond (including the 2 strikers), but he has almost-perfect fullbacks. And I could see a transition with Modric and/or Schuster caught out wide and Riquelme finding a pocket of space to feed his 3 targets as an alternate route to goal. (I really rate Riquelme )

 

[Enigma_87]

It's an almost-perfect diamond (including the 2 strikers), but he has almost-perfect fullbacks. And I could see a transition with Modric and/or Schuster caught out wide and Riquelme finding a pocket of space to feed his 3 targets as an alternate route to goal. (I really rate Riquelme )

Fair enough mate. I think we have more routes to goal and creativity as per, but appreciate the input.

 

[harms]

Marcelo is needed for the set up to bring that additional spark on the left and IMO he'd receive enough protection when he goes on a run, we have the midfielders to watch into space and also Modric and Marcelo have played together so I can see that mutual understanding on the pitch as they are not strangers to operate in that area.

In the best season in recent Real history (and the best season for Modric there) the Croatian played RCM with Di Maria on the left. I'm not sure if you want for Modric to cover for your left back and provide occasional width on the left - he is a completely different player than Davids for example, who would've been perfect for this role, and a righty to boot. Conte will have his hands full with Riquelme - it's your best shot to cripple Tuppet's team - and if Conte is busy with covering the flanks than the whole different question of "who is limiting Riquelme's influence" appears. Your best fullback have decent support from the midfield and your weakest (defensively) have not.

Marcelo have the luxury of playing in La Liga for Madrid - so he doesn't need to defend 95% of the season. His role is crucial for Ronaldo's success, I'd argue that him and Benzema are the most important players for Ronaldo's game and we can see how much he struggles without them. But he rarely faces decent opposition and when he does, he usually gets found out - especially against Barcelona.

 

[Gio]

He was a fantastic dribbler that did most of his dribbling from the right side of the pitch.

He was a very popular player. I know because during that time I lived in Denmark and he was my favorite. Him being 5th in the Fifa awards is clear example of how much those awards are based upon recognizing names. Laudrup wasn't one of the tree best players that tournament yet he's 5th in the world based on that tournament and ahead of Schmeichel even. He was good but it was after a season of injuries with Bayern, just turning up for the NT again in time for the tournament and having a good overall tournament but he was definitely not the best.

Nah he wasn't the best at Euro '92, but he was up there. His performance in the semi-final against Holland IIRC was class.

 

[Gio]

It would be good to hear a bit more about Cannigia's performances at Atlanta in Serie A - how good was he?

 

[harms]

To be fair I think it was a genuine mistake to use him in your BuLi quota, mate. He was young up and comer but largely inconsistent. When in Seria A he was better and close to his best, but IMO his best was at Rangers where he was given the freedom to express himself.

He also won Danish player over Michael when he was playing for Uerdingen, which earned him the record transfer to Bayern.