that's been a given from the moment Xabi stayed put in Leverkusen for another season. Even if the usual plot armor kicks in and we win the CL, I expect Xabi to be our manager next season
La Liga 2024/25
- Thread starter carvajal
- Start date
Xabi will be Madrid’s manager next season. I just hope for Carlo’s sake he can leave on a high with a trophy win.
The stars are aligning for an Atletico league title but the UCL and CdR are still up for grabs.
The stars are aligning for an Atletico league title but the UCL and CdR are still up for grabs.
I don’t think we’ve won a single big game this season. Drew against Atletico, spanked by Barca twice, lost against Liverpool and Milan. Even lost to Lille come to think of it. I’d argue the league title is more likely given the inconsistency of Barca than the CL or CdR.
Carlo got dealt a poor hand with the squad assembly. Three left wingers, no replacement for Kroos and a broken defense. But some of his choices are self-inflicted tbh.
The problem with Real Madrid is they were too focused on Mbappe and forgot the rest of the squad in the summer. Madrid have been needing a RB for a while now.
The succession planning for losing Kroos and Modric has been very poor too. I understand that Cammavinga and Tchouameni were bought in for that but they are not at the level.
Interesting to see what they do in the summer, looking from the outside they need to balance the squad. They definitely need a CB and RB, I know fans will say Asencio is good but they need more. Alaba is never fit, Militao out for the season will come back.
Pretty much, unfortunate Carvajal got injured and accelerated our need for a RB. Asencio is still an unknown quantity. Though at this point in time very much a better option than Tchouameni.
Every midfield after Kroos-Modric was going to be a downgrade so I can’t fault the club much with that one. But it is clear we need someone in midfield.
If they count Athletic and Milan as big games then Atalanta and Dortmund are missing.
Problem is Tchouameni and Camavinga where never adequate replacements for neither Modrić nor Kroos. It would be enough to watch them once to realize.
When they were signed everyone was salivating, saying they’d sorted their midfield for another decade.
I am not denying that, but realistically, you don't sign Gattuso to replace Pirlo, for lack of better comparison.
They may both turn to be solid players with time, but neither is capable of playmaking and dictating.
Whatever combination of current midfielders Real Madrid use, including Bellingham and Valverde, it is painfully obvious they need to add players who are much more ball friendly to the mix.
They're good players and I was particularly excited about Camavinga coming as a sub on the Champions League. Either way there was plenty of time to reinforce the team and bring players who could take over from Kroos and Modric instead of solely focusing in signing Mbappe.
Camavinga has a similar skillset to Modric, but he just turned 22 - he's still very young for a midfielder - and Tchouameni is one of the closest comparisons to Kroos out there in terms of skillset and playing style. He's just crap, unfortunately
We signed the "right players" in terms of skillset, just the wrong players in terms of age profile and level. Tbf I figure the club thought we'd get another year out of Kroos, which would have given Cama another year to grow...
You guys should have signed Zubimendi. I think that would bring the best out of that MF.
Got addicted to hypertoddlerification.
Don’t really get this narrative regarding Camavinga. He’s actually been very good this season despite injuries disrupting his rhythm slightly. If he could add a couple of goals to his game, you have a complete midfielder. Tchouameni has overall been disappointing after initially starting his time at Madrid very well.
Who do you replace Kroos and Modric with out of interest?
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I'm guessing 'adequate' in the sense of 'like for like'. Most of RM's midfielders have performed well on an individual level, the issue is putting them together on the pitch.
At the same time I think the problem is overstated. Real Madrid have taken horrendous beatings from Barcelona with Modric, Kroos, Casemiro, etc.
At the same time I think the problem is overstated. Real Madrid have taken horrendous beatings from Barcelona with Modric, Kroos, Casemiro, etc.
I also remember those moments in the Champions League where he seemed to dominate the midfield alone but right now I don't see him capable of doing so.
I see him
more as a complement. I don't think he is capable of understanding the tempo of the game, making difficult assists between the lines or long passes with confidence, again and again. Not to mention his shot. Like many other "revulsive" young players, he has good press and often escapes criticism for his efforts, while Tchouameni seems to trot with reluctance.
My sale list would be Lunin, Rodrygo, Fran García, Tchouameni, Brahim and Ceballos.
Doubts with Camavinga. If the offer is very good I would sell.
Due to performance, Lucas Vázquez should be there, but being a veteran and playing in a residual way, I think he can be useful.
* with Arda Guler, who I thought would play more in this second year and Endrick.
Doubts with Camavinga. If the offer is very good I would sell.
Due to performance, Lucas Vázquez should be there, but being a veteran and playing in a residual way, I think he can be useful.
* with Arda Guler, who I thought would play more in this second year and Endrick.
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All of those came as a sub for the last 20 minutes against tired opponents
Completely different profiles. I am not saying it is easy to replace Modric and Kroos, because they are generational players, but profile wise it would be someone like Rodri, Calhanoglu or perhaps Zubimendi who makes more sense than these two due to his age and attainability. Although his talent is nowhere near.
But profile-wise, these players are much, much closer to Kroos than Tchouameni for example can ever be. Or any other Real Madrid midfielder.
This is objectively wrong lollmao. Any serious scouting data would show Tchouameni as one of the closest comparisons to Kroos. Scouting him pre '22 WC the eye test would tell the same story. Hell, even now when he plays in midfield, he's the same type of player. The problem is that he's crap, not that he's a different profile
I definitely do stand by my opinion. Tchouameni is absolutely different type of player to Kroos. He is much more of destroyer than facilitator.
He's not, never was. Worst, he's not even particularly good of a destroyer. His profile matches Xabi Alonso
I'll add third option, because I think both Camavinga and Tchouameni navigate in some middle ground regarding the comparisons mentioned above.
For me in many ways both physically and in many of their traits they are closer to the mold of player that Redondo was for Madrid, and when I say "Mold" I mean having the build and some traits to try to be such player, not actually being.
They are dinamic, they have power, strength, can be all over the pitch, with some dribbling in them and ball control. Not particulary "launchers" of the ball, thought they can, not particulary destroyers, thought they have to have a defensive approach in them. Of course the level of dribbling, ball control from Redondo was sthg special and I do not think neither had that at that level (not even Jude being an offensive player has it).
Yet both of them have the traits (in their own level) and physique to be closer to what a Redondo provided in the past, than being a little polivalent Modric with an edge to produce numbres (Redondo rarely had, or even wanted to have), or been more incline to pass it constantly like Kross (all around passer) or a Xabi Alonso (also all around passer, yet more of a launcher).
The thing it's that both does not have the brain, the ball retaining, the tempo managing, the order and intelligence to become some sort of all over the place big fella metronome for Madrid like Redondo was, even if their build and traits are more or less there to do it (more with Camavinga). They do not even have the mean edge, the shithosuery disguise as a ballerina with Fernando's Amelie haircut. When they are rough, comitt, they tend to be expose and not particullary smart to do the dark arts required for such polivalent role.
Also they are more expose in what they lack to be that kind of player, when the other two consolidated youngsters from that mid, are so box to box players, with great confidence, perfomances, skills but neither wanting nor entirely knowing how to pull out a Mordic, Kross or Redondo (less a Zidane) role leaving many tasks from that "role" to the two Frenchies to somehow provide.
At the same time would be stupid to ask those tasks from Fede and Jude, when they are so great in what they do and are. This leaves Madrid match after match yearning for a Modric, Kross, Alonso and in my view the more closer to what they potentially could have been, a Redondo.
Both are still very young, specially Cama, but the time in Madrid runs faster and when you don't find your niche, your role, sooner or later you'll find the exit door. I remember when Cambiasso was in his case literally expected to be Redondo and as brilliant as he end being, he lacked many physical atributes and traits to be that and time ran out for him pretty fast, even if him later had a great carreer prooving his worth.
These two dunno what they feel it's their best role, or style to play, but certainly ain't being a CB, a fullback or instantly becoming and doing the sort of stuff some former householdnames from Real in the past did (Modric, Kross, Xabi, in fact not even also a Case, who was a great fecking allrounder with mainly a destroyer task; nor a Redondo alike player so far).
For me in many ways both physically and in many of their traits they are closer to the mold of player that Redondo was for Madrid, and when I say "Mold" I mean having the build and some traits to try to be such player, not actually being.
They are dinamic, they have power, strength, can be all over the pitch, with some dribbling in them and ball control. Not particulary "launchers" of the ball, thought they can, not particulary destroyers, thought they have to have a defensive approach in them. Of course the level of dribbling, ball control from Redondo was sthg special and I do not think neither had that at that level (not even Jude being an offensive player has it).
Yet both of them have the traits (in their own level) and physique to be closer to what a Redondo provided in the past, than being a little polivalent Modric with an edge to produce numbres (Redondo rarely had, or even wanted to have), or been more incline to pass it constantly like Kross (all around passer) or a Xabi Alonso (also all around passer, yet more of a launcher).
The thing it's that both does not have the brain, the ball retaining, the tempo managing, the order and intelligence to become some sort of all over the place big fella metronome for Madrid like Redondo was, even if their build and traits are more or less there to do it (more with Camavinga). They do not even have the mean edge, the shithosuery disguise as a ballerina with Fernando's Amelie haircut. When they are rough, comitt, they tend to be expose and not particullary smart to do the dark arts required for such polivalent role.
Also they are more expose in what they lack to be that kind of player, when the other two consolidated youngsters from that mid, are so box to box players, with great confidence, perfomances, skills but neither wanting nor entirely knowing how to pull out a Mordic, Kross or Redondo (less a Zidane) role leaving many tasks from that "role" to the two Frenchies to somehow provide.
At the same time would be stupid to ask those tasks from Fede and Jude, when they are so great in what they do and are. This leaves Madrid match after match yearning for a Modric, Kross, Alonso and in my view the more closer to what they potentially could have been, a Redondo.
Both are still very young, specially Cama, but the time in Madrid runs faster and when you don't find your niche, your role, sooner or later you'll find the exit door. I remember when Cambiasso was in his case literally expected to be Redondo and as brilliant as he end being, he lacked many physical atributes and traits to be that and time ran out for him pretty fast, even if him later had a great carreer prooving his worth.
These two dunno what they feel it's their best role, or style to play, but certainly ain't being a CB, a fullback or instantly becoming and doing the sort of stuff some former householdnames from Real in the past did (Modric, Kross, Xabi, in fact not even also a Case, who was a great fecking allrounder with mainly a destroyer task; nor a Redondo alike player so far).
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The issue with that is you’re attempting to replicate the same model, but with inferior players. As you’ve said yourself, Modric and Kroos were generational (or near) players and are not easily replaced. Rodri is a former Atletico player and would also have been prohibitively expensive. I would argue he’s also a different profile from both Kroos and Modric anyway. Calhanoglu would have been a massive downgrade outside of setplays.
Off the top of my head, even if money were no obstacle, I’d struggle to think of any current midfielder that could fulfil to a similar level the Kroos and Modric roles. As such, I don’t think it was a mistake to go for the players they did. Tchouameni was a monster at Monaco and Camavinga as I said above, is a pretty complete midfielder, and let’s not forget, only 22. Does he offer a different enough profile from Valverde? Probably not, but all the top clubs will be biting Madrid’s hands off if they made him available.
Tbf they did both help us win the double (twice with Cama).
I think more so than a Modric, we really miss Kroos. A metronome in midfield who directs our game, offloads the defense with building up from the back and orchestrating and temporizing the game. Very much missing that. Our midfield is just dumb at this point.
Besides the other issues of course, like the poor defense and the 3 up front simply not working.
All in all: most likely a throwaway season. Not expecting anything really. I hope with Xabi and some targeted signings we can level up for next season.
Is that happening then?
*Xavi.
Seemingly so, everything points to him taking over after this season. Mind you it could be a bust for all we know. But a change is very much needed after 4 years of Ancelotti. Certainly grateful for what he has given us.
Redondo is actually the comparison I would make for Camavinga, and I think Cama has the physical and technical talent to be that player, remains to be seen whether he can get there mentally. Again, he's still very young for a midfielder. Problem is we need him to become that player and at that level now, not in 2 years' time
A lot of hate on Tchouameni but I don't think he's a necessary sale. The squad won't have that many midfielders once Modric retires, and he's capable of being a player for RM, perhaps just not a nailed-on starter.
He should stop doing his ridiculous podcast, though.
He should stop doing his ridiculous podcast, though.
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It could be handy if he came as a player as well. Anyway when he comes he might be able to change the setup without needing too many signings, it feels like the players lack a lot of coaching under Ancelotti.
He still is very young and like I've said before, he has that build profile. I think he also has the menthal strength to try it and pull it out and technically he is excellent.
Yet I do not think he'll ever have that extra edge the best midfielders from certain academies like Argentinos Jrs tend to have, they were and still are quite great in developing very technical, intelligent players with every nuance in between. In great patt because Argentinos Jrs itself tend to first detect the players that already have those traits since born, to later increse such potential. Also technically as great Cama is, Reodndo's ball retention and dribbling belong more to a naturla number 10 than to a CM, organizative type of 5 (6 in England).
PD: Tchouameni also it's closer to a Reodndo build and traits, when we compare it with other mids mentioend before, yet at teh same time Cama it's wayyyy closer to Fernando than Tchouameni is.
This Madrid team is hilarious. Finally scoring when there's a seemingly obvious penalty that's going to be VAR reviewed.
EDIT: wow
EDIT: wow
This Madrid team is hilarious. Finally scoring when there's a seemingly obvious penalty that's going to be VAR reviewed.
EDIT: wow
Yeah not sure why VAR didn’t intervene.
Then again: I’ve seen the same happen to Jude and Vini so…win some, lose some.
Looked like a penno to me, not sure if missing something
Btw we play very badly
Btw we play very badly
Not at all, Tchouameni is a pretty standard DM type. Like a Xabi, Rodri, Veron, etc...
But when you compare it with Modric, he is nothing at all like Modric, when it comes to Xabi, he has some Xabi in him, but Alonso more than a DM was a CM with defensive responsabilities and the French has more phsisicality that he doesn't use it properly since some time, hence he is playing bad.
He should be more in the mold of Rodri that is a DM that developed his CM capabilities.
In any case DM like almost any role, has its diff version, in fact the real standard or let's say classic approach it's the pure dinamic destroyer like Gatusso, Mascherano, Gallego, Mazinho (with good or not that good passing)...or someoen speical like Kante, adding some dribbling and some box to box edge...then there are those like Xabi, that are closer to a CM like Alonso, Cambiasso, Albertini...where their defensive tasks are done more by positiong themselves correctly and anticipation, than being an all rounder physical beast like Rodri (that also in his particualr case has the positioning, the reading, the CM and the box to box, gem of a player Rodri), yet indeed he started as a pure DM and still is his major role.
PD:
Veron wasn't a DM, yet at the last stages of his carreer he played the "lazy, snail pace organizative 5", specially in his Inter period, that would comiit to some marking.
Veron was a natural, dinamic number 8 in his youth that every year he got older became more of a launcher, confuse as a 10 by Bielsa and later some sort 5 (CM/DM) metronome with defensive repsonsabilities.
PD2: this chat reminded of that beast jack for all trades amazing player Mauro Silva was, also DOnato was quite a gem to.
i was thinking of Veron more as a volante in terms of playing style. Tchouameni is not too dissimilar to Veron even in his Lazio period
Btw just seen the play, how the hell was that penalty no given
I mean i'm all for refs to do their job properly and help us win, but I'd rather they kept it for the league