La Liga 2018/19

ayushreddevil9 said:
Their top players are ageing and are showing signs of decline. Suarez, Pique, busquets and Rakitic no longer the players they were. You have to look at their performances with and without Messi.
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They beat Real Madrid 5-1 without Messi... and the reason they look a poorer without him offensively is due to how much they usually attack through him rather than Coutinho-Suarez-Dembele not being a good enough attack to destroy the likes of Eibar and Leganes. If they had a better offensive manager they wouldn't have that problem.

Pique, Rakitic, Vidal, Busquets and Suarez not being as good as they once were is true. It's also true they're still fantastic though. Messi probably isn't as good as he once was either, doesn't mean he's crap though does it? It's an incredible squad, the best Barcelona have had since 2015.

It's just astonishing to me how there are so many people calling the best squad in the world 'shit' and 'mediocre'.
 
Without Messi -
Amazing GK.

They have an excellent LB (Alba) and a good CB (Umtiti). Pique and Roberto are average. Oerall - their defence isn't great, but Alba helps them going forward.

Their midfield is good but not great. Arthur is a good prospect, Busquets isn't totally finished yet, and Rakitic/Vidal can still do a job. Can probably provide a bse for the attack, but may not dominate the opposition.

Forward line - Good but inconsistent striker and winger (Suarez and Dembele), very out-of-form #10 (Coutinho). Overall - high ceiling but inconsistent.

I'd say this team would challenge for the title but may not get it. Soft at the back, good but unreliable forward, and not spectacular enough in the middle to necessarily make up for those. Definitely getting dumped in the CL.

You add Messi - goalscoring, creativity, and link with Alba and Suarez - and this is transformed. Defensive and midfield problems remain, but the attacking threat has increased and the creativity required from the midfielders is reduced. Favourites for the league, and have the potential to win the CL on a good day.
 
Peyroteo said:
They beat Real Madrid 5-1 without Messi... and the reason they look a poorer without him offensively is due to how much they usually attack through him rather than Coutinho-Suarez-Dembele not being a good enough attack to destroy the likes of Eibar and Leganes. If they had a better offensive manager they wouldn't have that problem.

Pique, Rakitic, Vidal, Busquets and Suarez not being as good as they once were is true. It's also true they're still fantastic though. Messi probably isn't as good as he once was either, doesn't mean he's crap though does it? It's an incredible squad, the best Barcelona have had since 2015.

It's just astonishing to me how there are so many people calling the best squad in the world 'shit' and 'mediocre'.
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CSKA Moscow beat RM 3-0 at the bernabeu.

Their first XI is top quality but that bench is nowhere near them. They struggle without Messi, just like Madrid are this season without Ronaldo. They don't have that player who would take hold of the proceedings in his absence. Neymar used to be one, but he ain't there anymore.
 
berbatrick said:
Without Messi -
Amazing GK.

They have an excellent LB (Alba) and a good CB (Umtiti). Pique and Roberto are average. Oerall - their defence isn't great, but Alba helps them going forward.

Their midfield is good but not great. Arthur is a good prospect, Busquets isn't totally finished yet, and Rakitic/Vidal can still do a job. Can probably provide a bse for the attack, but may not dominate the opposition.

Forward line - Good but inconsistent striker and winger (Suarez and Dembele), very out-of-form #10 (Coutinho). Overall - high ceiling but inconsistent.

I'd say this team would challenge for the title but may not get it. Soft at the back, good but unreliable forward, and not spectacular enough in the middle to necessarily make up for those. Definitely getting dumped in the CL.

You add Messi - goalscoring, creativity, and link with Alba and Suarez - and this is transformed. Defensive and midfield problems remain, but the attacking threat has increased and the creativity required from the midfielders is reduced. Favourites for the league, and have the potential to win the CL on a good day.
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If Suarez and Dembele are good but inconsistent what the hell would you call any other forward line?

If their midfield is simply ‘good’, how many great midfields are there in world football? One? The only team with a comparable midfield is City ffs and even they don’t have the depth Barcelona have.

You’re calling ‘good’ to players who are top 10 in the world in their positions.

It’s just blatant propaganda the way certain people downplay every teammate Messi plays with, it was funny to read during the World Cup with Argentina, but now it’s just shameless.
 
ayushreddevil9 said:
CSKA Moscow beat RM 3-0 at the bernabeu.

Their first XI is top quality but that bench is nowhere near them. They struggle without Messi, just like Madrid are this season without Ronaldo. They don't have that player who would take hold of the proceedings in his absence. Neymar used to be one, but he ain't there anymore.
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CSKA beat them in a meaningless game, without their first team.

If Barcelona’s first eleven is Ter Stegen, Sergi Roberto, Pique, Umtiti, Alba, Busquets, Rakitic, Vidal, Dembele, Messi, Suarez then they have Arthur, Coutinho, Lenglet, Nelson Semedo, Malcom, Rafinha, Aleña, Cillesen, Boateng, etc. on the bench and you’re complaining about it? How many teams have a better bench than that?

Don’t get me wrong, they should definitely upgrade on a couple of backups and there’s room for improvement but which club doesn’t? Even City don’t have a backup to Fernandinho.
 
Peyroteo said:
If Suarez and Dembele are good but inconsistent what the hell would you call any other forward line?

If their midfield is simply ‘good’, how many great midfields are there in world football? One? The only team with a comparable midfield is City ffs and even they don’t have the depth Barcelona have.

You’re calling ‘good’ to players who are top 10 in the world in their positions.

It’s just blatant propaganda the way certain people downplay every teammate Messi plays with, it was funny to read during the World Cup with Argentina, but now it’s just shameless.
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City (Sterling-Aguero-Sane supported by Silva and de Bruyne/Bernardo)
Juventus (Ronaldo, Mandzukic, Costa/Dybala supported by Matuidi)
Liverpool (Mane Firmino Salah)
PSG (Neymar Mbappe Cavani/AdM)
all 4 have better and far more consistent forward lines than Messi-less Barca. If you can't see Dembele and Suarez's inconsistency, that's on you.


I don't think there are that many dominating midifeld other than City's. Barca, Juventus and Liverpool use theirs to provide a base for the attackers, not for Pep-style domination. I think Barca and Juve's midfield is about equal (Busquets - Arthur - Rakitic have more quality in possession, but Pjanic-Khedira-Matuidi are physically better, and Can, Betancur, and Cuadrado are very good and varied options off the bench). Liverpool's is worse on paper - but like I said - their job is limited and they can do it. I've not watched any PSG but on paper they are equally good in midfield.
 
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berbatrick said:
City (Sterling-Aguero-Sane supported by Silva and de Bruyne/Bernardo)
Juventus (Ronaldo, Mandzukic, Costa/Dybala supported by Matuidi)
Liverpool (Mane Firmino Salah)
PSG (Neymar Mbappe Cavani/AdM)
all 3 have better and far more consistent forward lines than Messi-less Barca. If you can't see Dembele and Suarez's inconsistency, that's on you.


I don't think there are that many dominating midifeld other than City's. Barca, Juventus and Liverpool use theirs to provide a base for the attackers, not for Pep-style domination. I think Barca and Juve's midfield is about equal (Busquets - Arthur - Rakitic have more quality in possession, but Pjanic-Khedira-Matuidi are physically better, and Can, Betancur, and Cuadrado are very good and varied options off the bench). Liverpool's is worse on paper - but like I said - their job is limited and they can do it. I've not watched any PSG but on paper they are equally good in midfield.
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So there are a grand total of 4 different front threes better than Barcelona’s after you remove Lionel freaking Messi from it... and they’re supposed to be ‘good but inconsistent’ rather than stars. If they’re inconsistent then who the hell isn’t?

Counting Coutinho, Barcelona have 5 different midfielders that would start for Juventus or Liverpool... Busquets is better than Pjanic. Rakitic, Vidal and Arthur are all better than the likes of Matuidi or Bentancur. Khedira isn’t a starter anymore, he’s the last option off the bench. I love how Emre Can is considered a very good option off the bench while at the same time Barca’s bench isn’t good enough. Imagine if the likes of Cuadrado or Emre Can were at Barcelona and they had bought Aaron Ramsey and Darmian for next season :lol:

They’d be getting ridiculed.

Manchester City aside there isn’t one team in the world with a midfield on the same level as Barcelona’s and that shouldn’t even be up for discussion.
 
Johnny Love said:
No way, not even close. They've made a lot of expensive purchases lately for sure however none of them addressing their major weaknesses. No replacement for Suarez, no replacement for Alba, weak RB, even the midfield is missing some true athleticism that is pretty evident when they play in CL. I would not say they have the best squad at all really.
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Which squad is better?
Weak RB/no replacement for Alba. People act like everybody has a set of 4 WC sidebacks.
 
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Still rate Madrid's midfield over Barca's. Kroos is a better version of Rakitic, Modric a better version of Arthur. Casemiro vs. Busquets is a hard question. Busquets is better in the right setup but since Barca hast adjusted their style a fair bit, Casemiro would probably be better for them.

The thing is they don't have these completely standout midfielders they used to. Arthur can get there (and Coutinho could, too, but he somehow is playing left wing more often than not) but other than that these are very good but not the best midfielders.

Suarez is of course absolute world class, Dembele is a great young player but technically not on the level of former Barca players (though his dribbling was on point recently).

Without Messi this squad would have the same problems Madrid is facing right now. They still have a better front three but Madrid outdoes them in the midfield. The defense is on a similar level I'd say, maybe with a little advantage for Madrid since Ramos>Pique and Carvajal>Roberto/Semedo.
Barca's depth is better in general though.

Yet they have Messi so this is a kind of pointless debate. With him this squad is exceptional and there are really no excuses for Valverde.
 
The barca squad is insanely talented and they have a great mix of upcoming players, stars and veterans. Umtiti, Lenglet, semedo, Arthur, dembele, cou, alena, denis Suárez, Malcom, ter Stegen are a great group of players even if some of them will not reach their potential. For all the justified praise of city's squad, they frequently have to use the likes of delph, zinchenko or Danilo as LB. They also have no alternative to fernandinho. Every squad has some weaknesses and nobody accepts that as excuse for playing poorly. Proper management is about making it work.

There is absolutely no way to argue that psg have a better squad. City - yes; Juventus - maybe, but I disagree; Liverpool, real, bayern&co - no way. The don't have the same problem as real Madrid at all. Madrids problem is that they have one promising attacker and he is a 18 year old kid, who just joined them. The rest of their creative midfielders and forwards are a support cast that is lost without the main attraction. While their starting11 in midfield and defense might be really good, they don't score goals and the squad depth in those areas is also really poor.

Barca's problem is that they frequently play terrible without Messi. That's despite their individual quality and not because of it. Valverde isn't getting the best out of them at all. Everyone but dembele just seems to wait for Messi even if he is not on the field. It's the managers fault for not organising them properly and making bad lineup decisions. Arthur, vidal and alena all showed some really promising performances, but Valverde always goes back to rakitic, who is out of form. He has no idea how to use the likes of denis Suarez, Malcom or coutinho and dembele forced his way into the team because he is the only alternative to Messi in this turgit system.

Valverde won stuff, isn't all bad and recently they started to improve. Still, the way barca played in the first half of the season was shocking and that was clearly the fault of Valverde.
 
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Valencia are just, absolutely terrible this season. Lost 1-0 against Getafe in the Copa del Rey without creating a single chance for the whole game.
 
We'll see how good Barca squad is in later stages of CL. Too many times that midfield has been inconsistent, looking very static, slow, soft and not dynamic enough. I'm not so sure they've addressed the issues they've had the past few seasons in CL.
 
Interesting to me they just sign all these back ups to sub Suarez.

He is 32 now so like Messi he will need to be replaced in next 2-3 years (or Messi will be moved to deeper midfield, can't do that with Suarez obviously).

Interesting to see who they replace Suarez with. Icardi perhaps for that poaching instinct? Go all out for Mbappe (surely he's not going to spend his whole career playing in french league?)
 
FootballHQ said:
Interesting to me they just sign all these back ups to sub Suarez.

He is 32 now so like Messi he will need to be replaced in next 2-3 years (or Messi will be moved to deeper midfield, can't do that with Suarez obviously).

Interesting to see who they replace Suarez with. Icardi perhaps for that poaching instinct? Go all out for Mbappe (surely he's not going to spend his whole career playing in french league?)
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If Mbappe leaves, it will be to Real Madrid or maybe Man City at a stretch, but PSG is not known for letting their best players go. Barca tried to sign Verratti and Thiago Silva and PSG decided to feck them over. Those two clubs absolutely hate each other.

There are rumours that Barca is interested in Luka Jovic and I think he has a higher ceiling than Icardi.
 
FootballHQ said:
Interesting to me they just sign all these back ups to sub Suarez.

He is 32 now so like Messi he will need to be replaced in next 2-3 years (or Messi will be moved to deeper midfield, can't do that with Suarez obviously).

Interesting to see who they replace Suarez with. Icardi perhaps for that poaching instinct? Go all out for Mbappe (surely he's not going to spend his whole career playing in french league?)
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Messi can play at high level until he is 35, imo.
 
Barca and PSG really hate each other lolol. PSG must be going crazy today, they were really banking on De Jong.
 
De Jong+Arthur+Aleña, they might have their midfield sorted for a full decade if they grow as expected. They’ll obviously add to it by buying players in the future to play there too.

With Umtiti at the back and Dembele as a forward they’ve guaranteed they’ll remain a top club for a long time, even after Messi goes.

Barça’s investment is crazy, I’d love to know the difference between the wages they’re paying and the wages the second highest paying club is paying.
 
What channel in the UK has the Sevilla vs Barca match tonight?
 
Tommy said:
What channel in the UK has the Sevilla vs Barca match tonight?
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Not even available on regular UK TV from what I can see. Pretty ridiculous. Luckily the internet exists :).
 
Mb194dc said:
Not even available on regular UK TV from what I can see. Pretty ridiculous. Luckily the internet exists :).
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So I wasn't just missing it then :D & yeah, pretty lucky that.
 
Interesting Barcelona team, Boateng up front, huge rotation.
 
Banega is so good. Barcelona's huge rotation being punished as it should, Valverde's rotations are really all or nothing but he seems to understand that winning a 5th straight Copa Del Rey won't matter in the slightest.

It's a shame Sevilla will bottle this like they always do against the big spanish teams away from home.
 
Peyroteo said:
Banega is so good. Barcelona's huge rotation being punished as it should, Valverde's rotations are really all or nothing but he seems to understand that winning a 5th straight Copa Del Rey won't matter in the slightest.

It's a shame Sevilla will bottle this like they always do against the big spanish teams away from home.
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I think Barca will concede at home, their defense has been shocking
 
Coutinho has been a terrible signing for Barca, can see him being sold for a massive loss this summer
 
Coutinho and Pique are hopeless. Rakitic and Malcom not much better.
 
Malcom will leave in the summer for sure, but I have a feeling Coutinho will never establish himself as a first team starter. With Frenkie arriving, there is no free spot in midfield and the wings will be occupied by Messi and Dembele for the next few years.
 
They could have Neymar, Mbappe and Ronaldo upfront and still look shit offensively if they refuse to do anything but attack through Messi.

Valverde is at fault for their lack of ideas, the squad is incredible. They have loads of different options.
 
This Barca team desperately needs some pace, especially in defence. Pique is a huge liability these days and Lenglet isn’t much better. Heck, I’d start Murillo instead of both those turtles. Also, their midfield seems packed with the same kind of players, which doesn’t work in 2019. They might get past Lyon but it will stop in the quarters.
 
I don't care what anybody says, I'd buy and play Coutinho in the Lingard / false 9 position.
A few more performances like these and see where happens.
 
pregra said:
This Barca team desperately needs some pace, especially in defence. Pique is a huge liability these days and Lenglet isn’t much better. Heck, I’d start Murillo instead of both those turtles. Also, their midfield seems packed with the same kind of players, which doesn’t work in 2019. They might get past Lyon but it will stop in the quarters.
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That would be a complete disaster after the investment they've made and the players they have.
 
Peyroteo said:
That would be a complete disaster after the investment they've made and the players they have.
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They should have invested in a good attacking oriented coach. All the rumours from the club state that they are happy with Valverde and doing their best to convince him to stay, so it's just going to be more of the same I'm afraid.
 
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