Henceforth, every time a players scores a late winner, i shall refer it to as 'doing the Ramos'.
La Liga 2016/17
- Thread starter roonster09
- Start date
- Status
It is getting a bit ridiculous. Ronny is going to injure him in training when he continues to outscore him.
That's the thing. You are using the fact it was a monumental bottle job by PSG to dismiss the ref from the equation. You want to get rid of the context.
You made it through by a goal with a 6:1 win. Any one of those dubious calls not going your way could have kept you out.
I'm not even bothered by the penalties, but the Cavani yellow card which should have been a Pique sending off half an hour into the game and not showing Neymar the red card for that kick and actually allowing him to vent frustration like that, that tells you all you need to know about how much authority from that ref was coming your way.
Is it true that Monchi can go to Madrid this Summer?
I have been reading that this is the third consecutive year that Neymar is "injured" in the weekend of Rafaela's (his sister) birthday party 
The press of Sevilla writes that he wouldn't go to Madrid, pointing England or Roma as the destinations but according to Madrid press Florentino has been looking for a director of football and could use Monchi for the elections(although he won't have competence).
It would be great although Monchi would have to change his method
If anything he would build an better squad than Florentino, and with more financial resources if he had the chance to work without Florentino meddling, it would be great for Madrid.
For the uninformed like myself, who is Monchi?
Sevilla's director of football.
Madrid should win La Liga. Despite the PSG result, Barcelona look poor. Madrid as a unit look better this season.
Nice of Messi to give him the day off after bailing them out a few days earlier.I have been reading that this is the third consecutive year that Neymar is "injured" in the weekend of Rafaela's (his sister) birthday party
Navas is gone for sure in the summer. The only question is who his replacement will be.
The story i heard was that for the past 2 years he accumulated 5 yellow cards a week before his sister's birthday so he can get suspension and celebrate her birthday but this year he has no card accumulation and is now mysteriously injured.I have been reading that this is the third consecutive year that Neymar is "injured" in the weekend of Rafaela's (his sister) birthday party
The story i heard was that for the past 2 years he accumulated 5 yellow cards a week before his sister's birthday so he can get suspension and celebrate her birthday but this year he has no card accumulation and is now mysteriously injured.
Indeed. Any team with a young quality keeper with CL credentials is looking nervously on every time Navas messes up.
For our sakes let's hope it's Courtois they go after. Madrid has a lot of pieces that Conte covets and they could get something done.
There will be an election at Madrid this summer. One of the hottest names, in order to win votes, could be Monchi.
Although, I personally believe Roma would have been perfect for him. The job in Sevilla is to replace the squad with players who need 1-2 years before they achieve stardom status. At real they need to achieve it right away, there is a risk that he would be in way over his head at Madrid...Highlight of yesterdays game:
If only somebody bothered to teach Marcelo how to defend
Anyways, Monchi won't come. No way Flo doesn't meddle and Monchi has gone on record saying he wants full authority on the job. Flo's probably running unopposed anyways since he changed the club's statutes in such a way that there's nobody who can run against him anymore...
Flo really needs to just focus on the financial part, hire a good DoF and leave the football to him. We're Real Madrid ffs, we can't be hostage of our players popularity
Anyways, Monchi won't come. No way Flo doesn't meddle and Monchi has gone on record saying he wants full authority on the job. Flo's probably running unopposed anyways since he changed the club's statutes in such a way that there's nobody who can run against him anymore...
Flo really needs to just focus on the financial part, hire a good DoF and leave the football to him. We're Real Madrid ffs, we can't be hostage of our players popularity
If only somebody bothered to teach Marcelo how to defend
Anyways, Monchi won't come. No way Flo doesn't meddle and Monchi has gone on record saying he wants full authority on the job. Flo's probably running unopposed anyways since he changed the club's statutes in such a way that there's nobody who can run against him anymore...
Flo really needs to just focus on the financial part, hire a good DoF and leave the football to him. We're Real Madrid ffs, we can't be hostage of our players popularity
? If anything, Perez has been quite good on the transfer market. Di Maria, Özil and Ramos tried to use their power over Real Madrid, and Perez put his foot down everytime - and won all three times.
Besides - Real have already tried to get Monchi in two different occasions before, both times he refused, and he explained that they looked at him as if he was an ailien.
No, he won nothing. Di Maria didn't sell shirts and Perez had wanted to sell him for a while. Ozil -again, didn't sell much and with Isco and Bale just signed, we needed money. His father made it easier.
Sergio Ramos got the contract he wanted.
What i meant by that is, we can't stay tied to cristiano, bale, james, modric just because they bring in money. Likewise, we can't sign galacticos we don't need just because of the money they would bring. Basically, we need to abandon the motivation behind Florentino's policy, and we need a competent football man to call the shots. I mean, both the spanish and english media keep mentioning hazard...what would we do with hazard exactly? Unless Cristiano moves permanently to CF, where would we play him?
That is not true at all. Ramos tried to use Man utd, and eventually settled with the initial offer. Di Maria wanted Cristano Ronaldo money - which was outrageous considering his lack of consistency. One great spring doesn't cover his extremly poor 'worst performances'. Özil played poorly, and either him or Di Maria where on their way out of the club, but eventually Özil's father made it easier, hence why Di Maria stayed that season, and continued to get booed out at the Bernarbeu that autumn. You really believe Real Madrid missed Özil and Di Maria considering the aftermath?
I guess Raiola is gonna try to sell Donnarumma to Real.
No, he got what he wanted.
http://www.abc.es/realmadrid/noticias/20150811/abci-cronologia-ramos-acuerdo-201508101847.html
Uh? No. My point was Flo wanted to sell them for reasons that had nothing to do with football, and he sold them. Di Maria asked to earn as much as Bale with the aim to get €6/7M after tax. Perez took the chance to boot him out and make him out to be a mercenary only interested in money.Di Maria wanted Cristano Ronaldo money - which was outrageous considering his lack of consistency. One great spring doesn't cover his extremly poor 'worst performances'. Özil played poorly, and either him or Di Maria where on their way out of the club, but eventually Özil's father made it easier, hence why Di Maria stayed that season, and continued to get booed out at the Bernarbeu that autumn. You really believe Real Madrid missed Özil and Di Maria considering the aftermath?
With Ozil it was something similar, although with him it was less Flo not liking him and more the club needing the money and Ozil's father pissing off Flo
Because he was not ?!
Di Maria was not the victim here, (and he was not a victim at United either). Whether you believe that he booted him because of his shirt sales or what not, that is your standpoint, I am not gonna argue against it. It is true that Perez look at the financial aspects of signings/players (as the signing of James), but the decisions of getting rid of Özil and Di Maria were there own faults, it was their ego, one's father, etc. And look at Di Maria now. Real won CL again, the myth of Di Maria got ruined in England, and now he is part of the best bottling job in the history in Paris. When keepin' it real goes wrong. True, Ramos certainly did not get the initial offer. I was way off there. However, he did put himself in a tough position, especially since his mother's comments became the icing on the cake in his negotiations with Real. He initially wanted 10 million (if I understand your link correctly), and ended up with 9 million. Real called his bluff about United (who supposedly offered 11-13 million, depending on what sources we look at), and in the end - both parties settled in China. Ramos came back after Real gave him green light to accept United's offer, so I don't understand how that is not Perez winning. Both of them got what they wanted in the end.
Well, now we are pretty much saying the same thing. Özil never perform accordingly (as his father suggested) and he was coming off as a crybaby since he could not cope with the competition in the midfield, since Isco had arrived there as well.
And Özil lost two CL titles because of it. At this very moment, if Özil left Arsenal today, very few gunners would miss him (insert: Perez winning). Another episode of 'when keepin' it real goes wrong'
That is not true at all. Ramos tried to use Man utd, and eventually settled with the initial offer. Di Maria wanted Cristano Ronaldo money - which was outrageous considering his lack of consistency. One great spring doesn't cover his extremly poor 'worst performances'. Özil played poorly, and either him or Di Maria where on their way out of the club, but eventually Özil's father made it easier, hence why Di Maria stayed that season, and continued to get booed out at the Bernarbeu that autumn. You really believe Real Madrid missed Özil and Di Maria considering the aftermath?
It's not just that, if we look at what Florentino had in the last 9 years some people will find comfort in winning 2 UCL, other would think this team missed yet another oportunity to create a legacy as big as the Pep team or Di Stefano's
- Since his return, Florentino had three of what we could say have been the best managers in the world (Pellegrini, Mourinho, Ancelotti), and between those 3 he got one league and one UCL, now if we look at players, Real had all the tools to rule Europe for 10 years or, at least make us Barcelona fans more miserable, but they fell short at that.
- He had Sneijder and Robben his first year, sold them both (against his manager wishes) and we all know what those players have achieved after leaving, is not that the decision was awfully wrong without hindsight but Robben could've been Bale prior to his coming and Sneijder was basically the piece they missed in their midfield until they got Modric, in a certain way Florentino could've had a surrogate of the two time UCL Squad 6 years sooner, that would mean not only having that quality sooner, but adding peak Xabi Alonso, Casillas or Pepe to the mix, he chose to sign Kaka and Ozil instead, we all know it didn't work
- He faced the situation of having to choose between Benzema or Higuain, now I'm not personally a big fan of Higuain but I absolutely don't get the hype around Benzema at all. We all thought this was the right decision after Higuain's last two seasons at Real, but if we look at his 2008-2010 stats and how he played, the Serie A version of Higuain seems the right evolution of the ~21 year old guy that was able to keep up with Ronaldo's scoring rate in his first RM season, he then had a complicated season after being out from December to April but even in his worst season with a big injury you could already see how the team was steering more around Ronaldo and less around him. This is my personal opinion but I know a couple of Madridistas that think like me, Higuain got the short end of the stick when it came to how the club could make Ronaldo score a lot of goals to compete with Messi, had Florentino thought more about the squad and titles instead of selling shirts and media pressence (like in the previous point) Higuain and Ronaldo could've replicated the numbers Suarez and Messi got years before Barcelona could pair them.
- When we talk about style, generational talents and the hardships of replacing them, Real Madrid had everything they needed when Florentino landed there (Casillas, Ramos, Pepe, Marcelo, Sneijder, Robben, Higuain) plus what we here in Spain think was the real reason Ronaldo joined (a contract already signed by Calderon, who was trying to get him the last three season) and the blessing of Xabi Alonso to join this team. Not only that but the peak and decline of those players was perfectly synchronized with the time their heirs were signed. When you play like Barcelona and lose Xavi there's certainly not another player you can sign like him, but if you play direct football through Sneijder and you have to replace him Modric is a perfect fit, same with Robben and Bale in the right wing.
In conclussion, Florentino might be a successful businessman but he's a petty person, and his pettiness have costed Real Madrid silverware in both his stints. First he inherited a two-time UCL winning squad and tried to break it in order to fulfill his vision, he thought Makelele wasn't important enough to consider him a star and his personal opinion screwed Madrid, Solari was the best 12th player in the world but he had to sell him because it was a reminder of the last president's legacy. Then he came back and did the same, Sneijder and Robben where the stars Ramon Calderon left in the club and his first option always was selling them so all future credit could be his. Then he allegedly almost screwed the already signed Ronaldo transfer, and (personal opinion here too) he signed Kaká just to one-up his predecessor when half of the world knew Kaka was almost done for after his last season in Milan (you don't bother spending 65M on Kaka to revive him if you're not giving that oportunity to Sneijder, who your coach thinks is key to the team). Higuain was another side effect of this pettiness years before.
Di Maria stood against him and had to go too, like many other before. He rules with iron hand if you're against him, but if you please him on a personal or business level you can screw Real Madrid in as many ways as you can (like Benzema) because you have his blessing.
The real curse for Real Madrid is that a team with those resources has been ran by Mafiosos with a personal agenda for the last 30 years (what I can remember), so in certain ways Florentino could look like a good president, same reason why people like Lorenzo Sanz or Calderon, who were complete disasters for the club could still leave positive assets to Real Madrid, so much money and prestige are like a shield to how many wrong decisions you can take without having any right one, in fact I think you could be a good president for Real Madrid if you only were right 50% of the time
@Ishdalar A sidenote to your big, well written post; think Valdano had to do with Robben being sold. He convinced Perez that 'Cris and Robben won't work together' according to rumours, but that also would show Perez naivity to listen to Valdano/ i.e. selling Robben for a bargain price. Still to this day, that is a shocking decision.
I think they did the correct thing to sell Sneijder (despite Sneijders phenomenal year that followed), but the way Sneijder was forced out was unpretty and completely unprofessional of everybody involved. I really felt bad for him, and that is why it felt extra good to see Inter winning the damn CL final at the Bernarbeu.
Real Madrid has always been a soap opera, but for the first time since...ever (?), it is a wierdly calm - or let's say calmer - atmosphere surronding the club, probably thanks to Zidane, and that they are on top of the table, and still in CL.
I think they did the correct thing to sell Sneijder (despite Sneijders phenomenal year that followed), but the way Sneijder was forced out was unpretty and completely unprofessional of everybody involved. I really felt bad for him, and that is why it felt extra good to see Inter winning the damn CL final at the Bernarbeu.
Real Madrid has always been a soap opera, but for the first time since...ever (?), it is a wierdly calm - or let's say calmer - atmosphere surronding the club, probably thanks to Zidane, and that they are on top of the table, and still in CL.
I'm not an expert on La Liga.
Brainstorm ideas:
- Di Maria; Higuain and Ozil were sold at their peak: profitable financial operation (selling price LESS acquisition price).
- The acquisition of Kaka was an unreasonable expensive acquisition given his previous season with Milan (injuries, shape...). Same for James Rodriguez at a high price: 90 millions of euros
- The choice between Benzema and Higuain was necessary: you can't keep both players 3 or 4 successive years
Brainstorm ideas:
- Di Maria; Higuain and Ozil were sold at their peak: profitable financial operation (selling price LESS acquisition price).
- The acquisition of Kaka was an unreasonable expensive acquisition given his previous season with Milan (injuries, shape...). Same for James Rodriguez at a high price: 90 millions of euros
- The choice between Benzema and Higuain was necessary: you can't keep both players 3 or 4 successive years
Yeah I'm not saying that at the time those decisions were awful, I try to say that the reasons behind Florentino taking those decisions are not always squad-related, his pettiness or personal relationships weight more than they should. We all knew Sneijder was a hell of a player even if his mental state was wrecked, but selling him to take a chance with Kaka? Absurd, and then taking another chance with Ozil (even Barcelona staff knew he was class, but some reports had concerns about his "head) seems even worse. This also happened with Robben, you sell him because he's injury prone, then have to get Di Maria to cover his place and then end up selling Di Maria at his best moment to make room for Bale, who has the same problem Robben had, what's the logic there?
For me the calm has more to be with external factors other than Real itself, they usually go for the best players in the world but right now, for the last 2 seasons market circumstances weren't right for them, players like Di Maria, Ozil, Alexis, Higuain, Costa, Agüero, Griezmann, Neymar or Suarez would be what they look for but all of them have implications Real can't or won't face. Beyond that you have Pogba, Hazard or strikers like Kane, if they failed to win the UCL last season I'm almost 100% sure one of them would already be there, but making place for one of those instead of Kroos,Modric, Benzema or even Ronaldo is something they'd like to avoid when the team had a successful season
IMO, the logic is to sell players at their peak (ADM was 26 when he left the club) and acquire younger players on the rise (Bale and James were 22 when they joined Madrid)
If that was the logic and assuming Ronaldo is untouchable (as he is the only player that can counter the effect Messi has for Barcelona) then Ramos, Pepe, Modric and Benzema should be out. They all had high bids for them either this or the oreviuous summer and they're not getting better
Interesting
True, that it is possibly more about external factors. And also, these AS and Marca reporters that like to turn on their own team, even when they could be winning, even they are bit calmer than usual. I can't recall Zidane losing his cool as a coach, he just smiles and say the most boring repetetive answers (as he should though).
Just like with Neymar scoring for Barca, it makes me conflicted with Zidane. Idolized him as a player, and he is probably my favourite of all time. So a part of me don't want him to fail as a coach, but I also don't like seeing Real Madrid being successful. For us who'd like to see Real Madrid lose their position, it is quite frustrating that they are made of teflon. Or that Ramos always bails them out. But then again, as soon as Real starts losing, the chaos will begin...
Bilbao-Real up next? Bilbao are fecking strong when it comes to play a big team.
Interesting
True, that it is possibly more about external factors. And also, these AS and Marca reporters that like to turn on their own team, even when they could be winning, even they are bit calmer than usual. I can't recall Zidane losing his cool as a coach, he just smiles and say the most boring repetetive answers (as he should though).
Just like with Neymar scoring for Barca, it makes me conflicted with Zidane. Idolized him as a player, and he is probably my favourite of all time. So a part of me don't want him to fail as a coach, but I also don't like seeing Real Madrid being successful. For us who'd like to see Real Madrid lose their position, it is quite frustrating that they are made of teflon. Or that Ramos always bails them out. But then again, as soon as Real starts losing, the chaos will begin...
Been having this thought all this season even when they were in their undefeated streak, the more Ramos has to keep saving them from losing a lot of "minor" games, the less likely he can replicate that in the bigger games. When he had that streak against Barcelona, a couple more teams and then Sevilla in the cup they ended the streak and had worse results than expected for a while. I really think you can only survive a certain games with luck, they needed it against Celta in the cup and they ran out of it, they might as well end up paying the piper for their luck against Napoli or Betis yesterday in the UCL next rounds or in the next clasico. Of course they can keep being "lucky" and win both titles but I really think if you live constantly on the edge you're most likely bound to fall down
There's a solution for your conflict. Zidane fails this season and resigns (sacked really, but both Real and Zidane won't let that be called for what it is), Barcelona steal Sampaoli from you and you get to be managed by the man himself with Monchi by his side (like Marca are saying this week but with a Karma twist). Everyone would be happy, right?
Eibar waste a big chance to close the gap on Bilbao in their race for a place in the Europa League.
Good. Sorry.
Saw this image of Messi & Suarez after the Deportivo loss and I knew I had seen a similar stance before.
Been having this thought all this season even when they were in their undefeated streak, the more Ramos has to keep saving them from losing a lot of "minor" games, the less likely he can replicate that in the bigger games. When he had that streak against Barcelona, a couple more teams and then Sevilla in the cup they ended the streak and had worse results than expected for a while. I really think you can only survive a certain games with luck, they needed it against Celta in the cup and they ran out of it, they might as well end up paying the piper for their luck against Napoli or Betis yesterday in the UCL next rounds or in the next clasico. Of course they can keep being "lucky" and win both titles but I really think if you live constantly on the edge you're most likely bound to fall down
There's a solution for your conflict. Zidane fails this season and resigns (sacked really, but both Real and Zidane won't let that be called for what it is), Barcelona steal Sampaoli from you and you get to be managed by the man himself with Monchi by his side (like Marca are saying this week but with a Karma twist). Everyone would be happy, right?
Haha, what plot twist
It would be a beautiful dream, despite Sampaoli at Barca. If we could - in the same sequence - also snatch Neymar, and pay all the dodgy middle hands that are involved in his transfer, then I would officially change my name to whatever people want.But if we gonna come back to planet earth...When Zidane is gone from Real, then it will be Serie A (Juve) or Premier League for him. Or Paris... Either way, it would be a very interesting test, especially Premier League.
As for Sampaoli, it will be our title this season - that he officially stays another season.
That is true though, about their luck. But after a while, when the luck been repeated so many times, maybe it isn't so much luck though? I get the feeling that they often push through thanks to Zidane's micro-management, he has build lot of confidence in each player, that they keep suffering for each other until the end of each match. But tactically, he seems to overrate certain players (ehm, Benzema), and underrate certain type of opponents. I have seen them put out a completely unbalanced team many times this season, sometimes with the lazy BBC up front, and those games usually turn out to be very exciting (in which Ramos has to save the day by the end
). But he seems to be more tactically conscious when being up against the big teams. I was certain that they'd win La Liga this year, but now I think it will be settled after el Clasico and their away game vs Celta Vigo. Both Barca and Real have been taking turns in slipping the title to each other during this spring, and I think they'll continue to do so until after el clasico.@SfcNervion fekin hell what happened at the Pijuan last week? Are the fans losing patience because they keep dropping points? Never seen N'Zonzi react like that. I think maybe the fans got caught up in the hype thinking they could genuinely challenge for the title and when they see dropping points, even getting outplayed by the likes of Alaves and Leganes they cannot accept it.
@prarek I think the fans were provoked of how Leganes were better than Sevilla in every single way. It took individual brilliance from 'el mudo' Vazquez and Jovetic in order to score the equaliser. Other than that, Leganes deserved to win and Sevilla escaped with 1p. Maybe it turns out that Leganes performance at Camp Nou wasn't a fluke, they are really a frustrating hard working opponent. Alaves comes off as a similar team.
But overall; Sevilla have had a downwards spiral since the Leicester game. Have not been performing well at all, not even vs Betis. Which is ironic, since Leicester are going upwards with their form. So I am kind of worried about tonight. Fenerbache, CSKA Moscow...and Leicester?
But overall; Sevilla have had a downwards spiral since the Leicester game. Have not been performing well at all, not even vs Betis. Which is ironic, since Leicester are going upwards with their form. So I am kind of worried about tonight. Fenerbache, CSKA Moscow...and Leicester?
Yes it feels like that. It wasn't just Leganes but you were lucky to escape with a point against Alaves with Rico making amazing saves despite the fact he made a mistake and then before that the derby you won by an offside goal where Betis were i thought hard done by, they created better chances and this a Betis team who have been horrible this season. Iborra said last week that the team was lacking in confidence. Not a good sign against Leicester who are probably the best they have been this season. It was be a tough game.@prarek I think the fans were provoked of how Leganes were better than Sevilla in every single way. It took individual brilliance from 'el mudo' Vazquez and Jovetic in order to score the equaliser. Other than that, Leganes deserved to win and Sevilla escaped with 1p. Maybe it turns out that Leganes performance at Camp Nou wasn't a fluke, they are really a frustrating hard working opponent. Alaves comes off as a similar team.
But overall; Sevilla have had a downwards spiral since the Leicester game. Have not been performing well at all, not even vs Betis. Which is ironic, since Leicester are going upwards with their form. So I am kind of worried about tonight. Fenerbache, CSKA Moscow...and Leicester?
- Status