So goes the media consensus.
Kylian Mbappe | PSG
- Thread starter RDCR07
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So goes the media consensus.
If he’s not a massive diva, he does an incredibly convincing impression of one.
Neymar is definitely the better player. He gets the Paul Pogba treatment in the media; neutrals are predisposed to already dislike the player. Mbappe is almost the complete inverse.
Messi came third in the Ballon d'Or 2007 about 5 months after turning 20 (far ahead of Ronaldinho or Henry). Mbappé will be 20 by the end of this year.
That is just slightly ahead, but not that much as you make it seem. Of course this doesn't change that Mbappé is incredibly talented and fecking good.
I'm looking forward the follow his path, Messi was expected to be mentioned as one of the greatest ever at 21 here: https://www.redcafe.net/threads/lionel-messi.225097/
I'm hoping Mbappé doesn't stay too long in France (as long as he doesn't join of our rivals...)
Uhhhh....in Spain, by the end of that season(06/07) Messi was seen as barcelona's best player(based on form), compared favourably to ronaldinho, and generally expected to join the conversation for best ever within a year or two. Messi was already seen as better than Eto'o and Henry before the 07/08 season began, and soon to overtake dinho as well. All of that turned out to be true as well
This reads like Mbappé's story. Neymar is getting fat within 24 months.
Who knows. What we do NOT know is that he ‘left Barcelona because he was tired of being in Messi’s shadow’. That has become the adopted slogan though.
It will get forgotten. Memories are like that, you tend to just focus on the most recent achievements
The timing of the award is so stupid anyways. The voting should be after the football season ends in July and not November. Electing the best player for the calendar year doesn't make any sense when the football season runs from august one year - july next year.
I agree 100% and in the case of tournament years, they should be given in September at least
Maybe I'm remembering wrong, I thought he came into his own when he got the #10 number and Guardiola got R10 out of the side. The year before, outside of the Getafe goal and the hat-trick against Madrid, injuries sort of kept him from being compared to the best, especially since he came back and couldn't do anything against Liverpool. I thought it was at 20 when he started to confirm his potential, especially because that's when I believe he put his hamstring injuries behind him. He is pretty far behind on what Mbappe's done stats-wise whether it's the league or CL, so I thought his break out started the season afterwards but maybe I'm remembering it wrong. He definitely wasn't considered in the conversation for the best ever within a year or two though, that came a couple of seasons later for most moderate people.
He competed for Ballon D’Or one year before Pep
Well feck me, my memory sucks...
Besides that times were different back then. Messi and Cristiano changed how players of that kind were used and perceived. Before them nobody even imagined that a playmaker or winger would score so many goals. Both Neymar and Mbappe (also Salah under Klopp and Hazard or even Mertens under Sarri) profited immensely from the tactical revolution Messi and CR7 initiated. I don't think either of them would've scored that many goals if they would've been used in a more "traditional" way. In the past these kind of players had completely different roles.
Still, Mbappe may have been the best 17/18 year old since R9. But that doesn't necessarily mean he'll be thest 25 year old.
Still, Mbappe may have been the best 17/18 year old since R9. But that doesn't necessarily mean he'll be thest 25 year old.
Also bear in mind at that time (age 19) Messi was seen by many as having a claim for being the best in the world if only he could stay injury free. It is no coincidence his first senior season without any injuries he wins the Balon D'Or.
Spot on. He was that good already, he just needed to stay fit
Messi finished 3rd in 2007 and 2nd in 2008 for the Ballon D'Or
If Mbappe can keep his head in place and not let the hype get to him he will be insane. Seems level headed so far. Needs to be half as hungry for success as Cristiano with similar dedication and there is no one that can stop him.
At least he has already won the WC...
Why this reluctance to believe he’s a diva? He constantly acts like a pampered child, is it really so hard to believe that he might actually be a bit of an entitled cnut?
You’re again not addressing my point.
Firstly, I’m not one for thinking I know a footballer as a person based on how he reacts to a tackle or whatever anyway, but I can appreciate the logic in saying ‘he’s a diva’. He probably is.
What I was contesting, is the rhetoric that he ‘left Barcelona so that he wouldn’t be in Messi’s shadow’ statement, that has become some sort of footballing fact. It is based on absolutely nothing but pure conjecture. But once echoed by the intellectual counsel that is football fans, it has now stuck. These are the things that cause prejudice, the sort that affects Pogba etc, and maybe as I’m getting older, it’s starting to grind my gears a lot more. I know footy isn’t book club, but fans rarely seem to think these days, and opinions are just fed to us which we run with. I think I’m more conscious of it now due to how much it’s affecting United.
Football fans do not know why Neymar left Barcelona. A couple of journos/commentators with important enough sounding voices said it was to escape Messi’s shadow, so we all said ‘yea, that’s it’, and now relate to Neymar from that position. I suspect it’s a large part of why people are enjoying Mbappe’s rise, as it’s an opportunity to laugh at Neymar for running into the same situation that we decided he was fleeing.
Smart money is he joined PSG due to the ridiculous amount of cash they offered him, and the fact he’s won everything at Barca already.
Actually it was former Barca defender Jeremy Mathieu who said it, and he was there at the same time as Neymar. His own father also said something about Neymar being attracted by being the main man at PSG.
Fair enough. I’m just going by the words that Neymar himself said when he joined, but I wasn’t aware of those other quotes.
To me, he is as crazily driven as CR7. The guy barely celebrated when Monaco won Ligue 1 from PSG, when he won the Euro -19, or the World cup, preferring to go to sleep early and get ready for next season. He's literally progressing every month, and is showing things right now I was expecting him to show a couple of years later. One of my biggest criticism of him is that, despite being extremely consistent for his age, when the team plays poorly, he doesn't lift them up (ie Madrid/Liverpool game despite the goal). This season, he saved PSG in their first Ligue 1 game where he came off the bench to score two goals, this last game against Iceland where he lifted the team up that had seriously underestimated Iceland and were getting beat. At 19 years old, with the world at his feet, he's not slowing down one bit and is actually getting better and better so I think as far as his mentality goes, he will be beyond solid for his career.
I think only injuries will stop him from being the best player in the world, or Dembele inherits his mindset and puts it together as I think he's even more talented, but far from being as good.
As far as Neymar getting out of Messi's shadow, people will always find fault with that but I don't. When you're a great player, and you only have one career as an insanely competitive person (like they all are at that level), you want to see how far you can take a team being the main guy. I don't know how many watch the NBA but Kyrie Irving caught a lot of flak for wanting to leave the all-time great Lebron James to join the Celtics and become the main man, he was proven to have made a good decision despite the way their season ended. The MSN was fun while it lasted, but I appreciate that a guy like Neymar wants to see how far his talents can take a team without depending on an anomaly like Messi. The media clearly has an agenda in dividing Mbappe and Neymar, or using Mbappe's success against Neymar but I don't think that will work. They both seem to really get on well, and Neymar is still the better player. Even the game where Mbappe scored 4 in 13 minutes, most people still felt Neymar was the better player because he simply was.
Spot on bar this one highlighted section. He is still a kid and shouldn't be expected to lift them or be burdened with any pressure. Just let him play and continue to learn.
I agree with you, I'm just highlighting that this is the one thing that you can be critical of. Obviously, when you put his age in context then it's an unfair criticism but the player himself doesn't want his age to be used for or against him, so according to his wishes it is a fair criticism, and one I feel he will put to bed soon enough.
Fair point and its shows his maturity and drive but I personally can't hold it against him as he is still just a kid playing the game. Albeit a seriously talented one.
Good post but do you really think Dembele is that talented? I think there is no area in which he's better than Mbappe while his weaknesses are much more significant, especially first touch, close control, passing and decision making.
I think there are many players in this generation +/- 3 years who are more talented and better competition for Kylian in 3-5 years. Sane, Pulisic, Asensio, Dybala and Sterling are the first thoughts. Personally, I'd take many others over Dembele as long as we are only talking about talent, too, since I think they have greater potential: Sancho, Foden, Diaz, Havertz, Brandt, Martial, Rashford, Coman, Malcom, Bernardo Silva, Jesus, Vinicius Junior and Rodrygo all look much more comfortable on the ball if you ask me. The only thing they lack is Dembele's crazy speed (although being extremely quick in their own right) but when we look at the last generation, the fastest weren't the ones that came out on top.
He wasn't even the best player for France at the world cup, Pogba was.
Pogba wasn't the best player for France. Kanté, Varane and Hernandez were better, Pogba and Mbappé were in the same bracket.
Pogba wasn't although he had a good tournament. Kanté and Varane were pretty much flawless
If everybody says something else and 5-6 different players get mentioned even though we're just talking about 7 high exposure games most people watched there probably wasn't ONE best player.
Kante I think was the most influential. But without pogba, mbape and varane the team is spineless
I don't think so, Pogba was running everything and was so consistent the entire tournament. They worked perfectly with Kante mind you, I said from very early on that no midfield was better and it remained so. While Kante was excellent at what he does, Pogba was better in passing, controlling the tempo and had a fantastic understanding with the forward line initiating most things going forward. He was even great at positioning defensively. Varane was great, but no way near to the level of influence on that team as Pogba. IMO Varane wasn't even better than Umtiti, as a pair they were the best central defence with no question though.
Yeah well you're talking about 3vs 1 so what can I say
? Kanté was the best french player at the world cupI like Kante and the no nonsense way he goes about his football, but he wasn't better than Pogba at the world cup.Yeah well you're talking about 3vs 1 so what can I say
Kante was the best in several games, together with Varane. Pogba however had no bad game(kante was ill in the final an it showed). Mbappé had 1 otherwordly game, another great one(belgium) and played a big role in two more(peru and the final) but also poor in a couple games
Griezmann didn't steal the eye but was involved in all of France's goals from the QF
It's difficult to say who was the best
Griezmann didn't steal the eye but was involved in all of France's goals from the QF
It's difficult to say who was the best
I think Kante was better. Pogba was great too, but Kante just ahead
I think this is the fairest assessment I’ve seen, and agree. I was thinking a lot about who I’d chose as their mvp and couldn’t. Maybe, except for Mbappé, who I think wasn’t nearly as consistent as the rest. Although he had the single best performance.
Kanté was having a mare in the final before the substitution. Not to say that he was or wasn't better than Pogba, but flawless isn't the word — great in all of the other games though.