Yeah, he really was. Or more precisely, he was already believed to go down as top 10/20 player all time. Everything that happened since 2009 was expected, even if not quite on that statistical level(but then nobody expected football to change so radically, so quickly, in favour of the attackers)
Kylian Mbappe | PSG
- Thread starter RDCR07
- Start date
You're wrong about this. Maybe YOU thought he was top 10/20 of all-time. He had one world-class season that could have been a one-off or could continue. Real took the gamble that it would continue in a new league with a new team and Cristiano took it to another level. He will eventually go down as a top 20 player maybe even top 10 but at the time of his transfer, it was not even a debate that he wouldn't make the top 20 or even 30. You have to be consistently great, which he's achieved but he also could have failed in La Liga. Without that certainty, you can't say such definitive statements.
Cristiano Ronaldo by 2009 had already clearly established himself as one of the 5 best players of the modern era in terms of sheer talent and ability. It would have been a massive surprise if he turned out to be a bust in madrid.
France has a much higher population than England... the difference is like the same as the entire population of the Netherlands.. so quite substantial. Netherlands finished the game with 10 men after Strootman was sent off, but France really started with 10 men as Giroud for some reason was on the pitch. Imagine shutting out Benzema from the squad and playing Giroud, whilst keeping Lacazette on the bench, who is ahead of Giroud at Arsenal and was bought to replace him. Weird shit! I know Benzema is out because of personal and political reasons, but still - Deschamps is going to lose his job pretty quickly when he doesn't win the World Cup.
Oh and Mbappe? The people who "don't understand the hype and fee" don't understand football. You can see in 3 seconds that he is extremely special. That pace and touch combined with lethal finishing and extreme speed in everything he does, it's not something you need to analyze over time. Some players show their ability within minutes and he is an absolute star in the making, in fact he already is. It's not like he is going from great to Francis Jeffers next season, there is just no chance of that happening. Many talents are hyped and have failed to live up to their reputations, but Mbappe is vastly different to every one else. The exciting thing for him is not if he can live up to his reputation and price, he will 100% do that, but will he stay at this level for 12-13-14 years? That is a looong time!
The insane thing is that Cristiano Ronaldo is old enough to be his father (theoretically), that's how young Mbappe is - so how can he possibly be this good
You're right. The jealousy card isn't the only one.
There are also the arrogance, ignorance and amnesia cards
Damn children these days. Having kids when they are 14?The insane thing is that Cristiano Ronaldo is old enough to be his father (theoretically), that's how young Mbappe is - so how can he possibly be this good
France has a much higher population than England... the difference is like the same as the entire population of the Netherlands.. so quite substantial. Netherlands finished the game with 10 men after Strootman was sent off, but France really started with 10 men as Giroud for some reason was on the pitch. Imagine shutting out Benzema from the squad and playing Giroud, whilst keeping Lacazette on the bench, who is ahead of Giroud at Arsenal and was bought to replace him. Weird shit! I know Benzema is out because of personal and political reasons, but still - Deschamps is going to lose his job pretty quickly when he doesn't win the World Cup.
Oh and Mbappe? The people who "don't understand the hype and fee" don't understand football. You can see in 3 seconds that he is extremely special. That pace and touch combined with lethal finishing and extreme speed in everything he does, it's not something you need to analyze over time. Some players show their ability within minutes and he is an absolute star in the making, in fact he already is. It's not like he is going from great to Francis Jeffers next season, there is just no chance of that happening. Many talents are hyped and have failed to live up to their reputations, but Mbappe is vastly different to every one else. The exciting thing for him is not if he can live up to his reputation and price, he will 100% do that, but will he stay at this level for 12-13-14 years? That is a looong time!
The insane thing is that Cristiano Ronaldo is old enough to be his father (theoretically), that's how young Mbappe is - so how can he possibly be this good
Deschamps won't have to win the world cup to keep his job and be extended. Only one manager can take his place and he signed a contract until 2020.
You're moving the goal-post here. He was considered the best of that year, rightfully so. But you claimed earlier he was already regarded as the best 10-20 player in history which just isn't true. It's definitely true now, but that's after showing consistency and above all, winning because he wasn't doing a lot of that for a while with Messi dominating the scene early in his Madrid career. People still considered Eusebio better than him back then, Figo as well so he was 3rd best just in his country at that time. I'm talking about how a lot of my Portugese friends (among others) would talk about him. Once he confirmed his ability in La Liga, then the debate could take place.
Just to bring it back on topic.
Speaks of his pride for his first goal, childhood dream etc, sorts of mention PSG and how excited he is but doesn't want to talk much about it until they get through their second international game.
Very mature kid, I'm excited to see his growth alongside Neymar. His run for the goal and the finish was impressive. Still hard to believe sometimes he's not turning 19 until December.
Usually if a player is on loan then he cant play against his parent club cause there might be a clause in there. It would be funny if that is the case here.
Only seen that be the case in England. In other countries loan players can play their parent club.
Yeah, very mature and classy man. Players like Henry and Ronaldo were much faster but the kid has all the other tools to develop a successful career with both his club and his country.
He is the antithesis of Benzema/Menez/Ben Arfa/Anelka in terms of state of mind
So what held him back to start for Monaco in their first few matches? Did he choose not to play or Monaco refused to play him? Some PR words won't convince me that the kid is mentally 'on the right path'. By all means he is a truly exceptional talent.
I think it was more a case of Monaco knowing he's going so thought it best to play the players who would be there this season. He was still on the bench for some of the games as an option in case Monaco were struggling but they were fine without him.
Although i like the idea of the Champions League being a more balanced competition with more clubs on a similar level. But from a very pragmatic point of view how is PSG pulling this off without breaching any UEFA stipulations?
I mean, i actually would like a sound premise surrounding this situation instead of the usual "UEFA is corrupt/a scam blah blah blah...". I have friends in the finance industry who have a fair knowledge of football finance and even they have no idea about how PSG is pulling this off, especially after the Neymar deal.
I mean, i actually would like a sound premise surrounding this situation instead of the usual "UEFA is corrupt/a scam blah blah blah...". I have friends in the finance industry who have a fair knowledge of football finance and even they have no idea about how PSG is pulling this off, especially after the Neymar deal.
It's simple, PSG would need to generate profits to balance out their books given their ridiculous spending. It's not about corruption, it's simple finance. Realistically, it's going to be difficult to balance this spending without winning pretty much every trophy they could win this upcoming season and making some good value sales. I think they are ready to be sanctioned at worse because they have a solid team that can remain unchanged for a few years and still be competitive. However, they've been trying to find every loophole (such as Mbappe being a loan instead of a purchase), that they might find ways to generate revenues based on the world cup advertisements for Qatar as an example. Neymar will bring a lot of revenue from a marketing standpoint and Mbappe could have a similar effect within a few years if he keeps progressing.
Highlights of his brief cameo:
Frigging excellent when he came on tonight, scary good
The whole 2022 World Cup arrangement is pretty shady. I actually never seriously thought that the Neymar and the subsequent Mbappe transfer to PSG would ever happen; i honestly passed them off as baseless rumours. But clearly there are too many loopholes in UEFA's current legislation that can be worked around. And most importantly they seem to lack the nous and the vigilance to take any form of pre-emptive measures. If UEFA seriously wanted to do something about this, they should've started off by building a comprehensive analytics platform which could leverage all the European club football related big-data to translate all the nitty gritties into a simple real-time format (seeing that all the top brass seem to be unaware of how the clubs in their jurisdiction are operating). Is UEFA really that behind the curve?
Eventually i think football in Europe might reach a point where they end up following the American salary cap/league regulated format. And since the most profitable entities in a league-regulated ecosystem remain the clubs/teams (if i am not wrong NFL franchises are the most profitable sports franchises in the world) i don't think the owners would mind that at all. Even though I'm not a big fan of that format, but that might be the only way in the future to level the playing field.
I'd rather have him and Neymar than Messi and Suarez.
He looks quality. PSG are sorted for the next few years with their two new arrivals.
Definitely going forward.
Suarez is declining imo.
And Messi as incredible as he is, will start showing some decline in 2-3 years imo.
Even at the moment id rather have them, much more dynamic. PSG have now more than enough to win the CL, its up to them to do it.
I'd probably agree with that too.
I don't think Messi/Suarez can function together anymore at a very high level as outrageous as that might sound.
PSG: "What will you do? Fine us? We'll pay it. Transfer ban us? We already bought everybody."
Madness! £165m for a player who has the sum total of about 3 standout games in his entire career to date.
United's pays for everything through legitimate income it earns and isn't building stadiums using slave labor.
If you can't see the difference between the two ways legitimate and these plastic clubs operate, you are being deliberately obtuse.
He was left out of the team by Monaco. Nothing and noone suggested that it was Mbappé who refused to play. He was ready to extend with a raise but Monaco wouldn't offer the wages he could get elsewhere and didn't wan't to keep him with only 2 years left on his contract.
Mbappé is coming on loan and will only be bought next year. FFP forced the PSG finances to be largely in the black lately, let's see how they handle the amortizations of the Neymar and Mbappé deals in 2019.
It'd be pretty funny if Neymar went from being in Messi's shadow to Mbappe's shadow within a couple of years. Ridiculous talent.
I don't think a new owner changes the history of any club, and PSG, while still young, has a solid history especially in the 90's of great football with great players before there was even a hint of QSI. Is Chelsea a plastic club because they have a Russian oligarch? Is Madrid a plastic club because of Franco? In a few years, no one will even remember or care because football generates so much money and competition, that unless UEFA seriously puts into measure something akin to what the poster above mentioned like salary cap (good luck with that) or something else, you will have a whole lot of 'plastic' clubs coming soon as others will not be able to keep up. I still remember how every one was going off at Chelsea when Abra took over, it's not even a subject anymore with City/PSG until the next club gets purchased and changes the landscape.
No one is in charge of who takes over their club, but you don't get to dismiss the history of it because of its owners. PSG spent a ridiculous amount of money, but if they win major trophies it'll all become money well spent and a legitimate success because buying the players is only half the battle as Madrid learned when they went on a crazy spending spree. You still have to make a team out of it that can compete. Let's see if they can do that successfully with these players because I think it'll be very difficult for them to avoid the sanctions but at least they're set for a few years even with a transfer ban.
Your ignoring how its accomplished, and Real Madrid being the club of Franco is a blemish on their overall history. PSG's modern history is shaped by being owned by a nation-state with an appalling human rights record. While you have to acknowledge what they accomplish, it doesn't mean you have to respect it or think of it as a positive. You tried to compare the Glaziers to the ownership of these plastic clubs, which was ridiculous. Clubs like Untied, Madrid, Barcalona, Liverpool, Arsenal, Tottenham, etc are self-sustaining. People don't talk about Chelsea as much anymore because they are in the black, and aren't backed up by shady sponsorship deals or completely messing up the transfer landscape.
I compared the two ownerships because I thought your point was simply about money, not human rights violations which is a different matter that you didn't mention in your original post. And maybe you don't remember, but people talked a lot about Chelsea and their owner with money that many considered shady at best. My overall point is that those things don't hold up in history. All that matters is the end results and if PSG go on to win major trophies, no one is really going to care how they went about doing it, I've seen it across enough sports for enough time to know that people's memories are very short and that winning is the ultimate fan pleaser and no one cares what people who speak negatively about it, whether with envious or judgmental eyes, have to say.
The only way this changes, is through some serious regulations and the FFP is simply not an effective way of preventing it. I'm happy Neymar and Mbappe are in Paris, I want to see a French club do well. I'm excited about Milan AC's revival, I'm just tired of Spanish clubs dominating every year.
No it wouldn't. I hope they get knocked out by Gent.
His speed of thought seems to be pretty special. He doesn't linger.
My first post on this pointed directly to their human rights by talking about the labor there are using to build stadiums. Your first post talked about us buying Pogba for a record fee, and drew a comparison of that to how they bought Neymar. It sort of makes sense that the club that has the most revenue yearly would be able to set the transfer record, yet a team barely in the top 10 was able to financially outmuscle a team that was in the top 3. You somehow thought the Glaziers were comparable, which they simply aren't, they run the club as a business and profit. You claim we "don't get to judge other clubs because an American got to us before a Russian or a Qatari" which is completely false. Manchester United was a successful franchise that became successful way before the Glaziers came along. In hard times, it was built around local ownership by people such as John Henry Davies or James W. Gibson. To compare us buying Pogba due to being owned by an American billionaire and PSG buying Mbappe and Neymar was an extreme false equivalency. Anyone who could own Manchester United could afford the Pogba fee easily, as the club sustains itself, that simply doesn't apply in the case of City or PSG. People still knock Chelsea for it, but they aren't talked about in the same vein anymore because they are a compliant club who aren't screwing up the transfer market and wage structure in a similar fashion at the two clubs that are extensions of oil states.
Hopefully UEFA stick FFP on them, but I highly doubt they will. But, I would find it pretty funny if they end up like Blackburn after Jack Walker left. I will acknowledge they have great players and respect those players if they win, but I won't respect the club or its owners.
This back and forth is getting a little boring, don't you agree? The first post I quoted from you mentioned nothing of human rights violations (and I didn't really check the posts previous to that) so that's why I made the comparison, now that I know you were mentioning those issues aside I agree it's not a fair comparison but I'm not educated enough on PSG's owners and their connections to those issues. Nothing guarantees someday Manchester United's owners decide to sell the club and at that point you are at the mercy of the owner and his or their reputation, it doesn't erase anything of the club's history, at least in my eyes which are the ones that matter to me. The way I look at it, the French league doesn't have the tools to compete with the top 3 leagues in the world. You could say that they should try to hold on to their talents, but when you see a club like Monaco getting pilfered (And Mbappe and Fabinho would have been somewhere else even without PSG) as soon as a French club gets anywhere in Europe, how do you compete? At least with PSG, they have the financial ability to not just attract great players, but keep them. I find it much more interesting with them in the picture rather than seeing any talented young player in France getting picked off as soon as he starts to show something. The hope is that it raises the level of the league, attracts more talent, or helps talent growing in France (because there's a lot of it there) to want to stay in the league longer and compete with some of the best players rather than leave at the first opportunity.
Also, I think PSG and its owners will be alright without your respect.
Good for the French league and it sucks you guys lose your talent at a young age. I don't think allowing teams to be owned by oil states is a good answer. If you don't know about the Qatari's start here.
https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2017/country-chapters/qatar
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-33019838
I don't think you can legitimately compare clubs that legitimately earn their money to City and PSG. The teams owned by Oligarchs are also quite shady but not as blatant.
Either way, Mbappe is a great talent, and I'm curious to see what he does. It's just a shame he's doing it for a team I dislike for their owner's ethics and methods. I just took issue with you saying that United fans can't take issue with City or PSG due to being owned by an American billionaire. Manchester Untied are successful because of the support and revenue they get by extension of their fanbase. That simply doesn't apply in the case of City and PSG, which is why you can't compare us buying Pogba for a world record fee to the Neymar and Mbappe purchase.
This guy is going to be legandary. Phenomenal talent.
Mbappe is seriously overrated. He has half a good season in the French league. £165 million for potential is crazy. He has barely done any better than Rashford at the start of his career with the United senior team. He scored two on his debut. Two against Arsenal, two against City. Scored on his England debut. So he proved himself against good teams. Mbappe wouldn't have been so hyped if he was in the Premier League. He wouldn't have looked as good as he has in France.
Yeah. Not really sure how people could support PSG? I hope Monaco smash them in the league.
True. Small sample size and I haven't even seen all the matches he played in but it seems his natural instincts are spot on. Some people are born with it.
Rooney barely played a good season before we bought him for a record transfer.
Mbappe has much better touch and finishing than Rashford