Kyle Walker

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Manchester Dan said:
He improves City hugely, as would Mendy, but by far the biggest cost driver in this will be the fact he's English. We only have 17 foreign spaces in the squad.

Ederson, Bravo (2)
Otamendi, Kompany, Kolarov (3)
Gundogan, De Bruyne, Fernandinho, Silva, Silva, Sane, Fernandinho, Yaya (8)
Jesus, Aguero (2)

That's 15 already, and doesn't include players we are yet to sell like Nolito, Nasri, Fernando. Etc.

Add Mendy and your at 16 with one spot left and heavily chasing Sanchez. If overpaying £15m for Walker leads to you ending up with another Sanchez type player in the squad then that's a small price to pay. It's the same reason we are probably chasing Bertrand as well.

Edit: Fernandinho made it twice, but the point remains. With any luck they want a Fabinho type as well. Fixes DM and provides the RB cover when needed for missing out on Alves.
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Signing Walker does not change the number of non-home grown players who qualify as over-21 in the squad. It is fixed at 17 at the most.

Also Gabriel Jesus was born in 1997. He will turn 21 in 2018, so does not count against the 17 non-home grown limit for this season or next. Sane I believe turns 21 this year, so I think by rule he also does not count as an over-21 this season, I believe the rule is if you turn 21 in the year a season begins in, you are considered an under-21 for the entire season.
 
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ROFLUTION said:
Well, you're not reading my post right. I'm saying that a good defence clearly is not enough to win the league - We were like 30 goals short.
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I agree but that has nothing to do with Kyle Walker and Mendy helping City walk the league. Our defence and goalkeeper are superior in some ways and equal in others. They do have better attacking options but I dont see them walking the league at all it will be a good contest between the usual suspects.
 
Fortitude said:
Just because you have more money it shouldn't necessitate spending more money. In fact, that's why English clubs have not progressed in Europe for years now or closed the gap on the footballing elite, all of whom are spending shrewder and smarter than 'we' are.

This newfound money is supposed to flood the global market and destablise these top clubs as new players(clubs) in said market are ready to go toe-to-toe with them for new players or even their own via what-can-then-be incredible financial offers.

The English teams could have made big waves with the money, but have instead shafted themselves and made themselves prey to any potential suitor.

As a selling club, of course Spurs have themselves an incredulous deal. It's the buying club who are having a mare here.

We can say 'it's City, they don't care.' but the knock-on effect is going to hit all clubs in the league, just as it will with Lukaku going for so much and thus setting a precedent.

Of course, many saw this coming and said Pogba will look a steal within the next few years, but there has been a leap in just a couple of windows that few would've foresaw and now we have players like Walker being sold for £50m just a year later. By that token, Pogba has to be a £150m already... just a season later. Madness.
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Excellent post! This argument that has been popping up lately about how we shouldn't care about the fee since we're so rich which I assume is the basis for the similar judgement on other English clubs is utterly ridiculous. Every business no matter how profitable it is has to abide by the rules of the market and consider its expenditures, otherwise as you point out the knock on effect will sooner or later catch up. I have absolutely no idea if we or City's accountants are on top of what they are doing but to suggest that we or they don't have to care is just stupid. The other point is as you also point about setting a precedent. If we pay 75 millions for Lukaku and they pay 50 for Walker, two very decent players but nowhere near elite marquee bracket, then what kind of a negotiating hand do we have in the future? If the whole world was paying those fees then that shouldn't be a problem but the fact is nobody else is and that will sooner or later have a consequence.
 
JustAFan said:
Signing Walker does not change the number of non-home grown players who qualify as over-21 in the squad. It is fixed at 17 at the most.

Also Gabriel Jesus was born in 1997. He will turn 21 in 2018, so does not count against the 17 non-home grown limit for this season or next. Sane I believe turns 21 this year, so I think by rule he also does not count as an over-21 this season, I believe the rule is if you turn 21 in the year a season begins in, you are considered an under-21 for the entire season.
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OK but this is a squad being built to challenge for a few seasons, if they don't qualify now they will very shortly. Given the foreign market far exceeds the home grown market it makes complete sense to snap Walker up if he's available. If it was £40m we'd be saying it's a great deal, so I can live with a £10m overpayment.

Regardless of cost though, Walker is a massive upgrade on Sagna, and one of the best in the league. We've addressed a clear gap in the squad. If you throw Mendy in as well I'd actually start to get excited that Mendy, Walker, Stones and Kompany has the potential to be an incredibly strong back four. I'd still argue we need a DM and the lack of links to one is my biggest gripe so far!
 
M4YON said:
I agree but that has nothing to do with Kyle Walker and Mendy helping City walk the league. Our defence and goalkeeper are superior in some ways and equal in others. They do have better attacking options but I dont see them walking the league at all it will be a good contest between the usual suspects.
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Fair enough. Personally I see Chelsea and City competing, but we've only strengthened in defence where we were strong already. Hard to say yet if Lukaku will be better than Zlatan. Spurs will underperform at Wembley, Liverpool's a joker, but Yeah, depends who Chelsea replaces Costa with. Right now they need a striker.

We really need to hijack Mendy
 
Dirty Schwein said:
So who's going to play there for spurs? Tripper?
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Sorting your fantasy team? :lol:

Yeh will be Trippier unless they sign a replacement (bid turned down for Rafael apparently). Trippier did well at the tail end of last season.
 
M4YON said:
I agree but that has nothing to do with Kyle Walker and Mendy helping City walk the league. Our defence and goalkeeper are superior in some ways and equal in others. They do have better attacking options but I dont see them walking the league at all it will be a good contest between the usual suspects.
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I agree that they will not be walking the league. In fact, I'd be surprised if anyone did really. Chelsea, City and maybe us and Spurs look very capable of competing until the end. I disagree though with the idea that our defence is superior, not because I don't think it is but because defence does not function independently to the rest of the team which makes it pointless to compare independently. If Guardiola played in a way similar to us or even Conte's Chelsea, their defence would look instantly better and more solid. The point of this is we can't just divide every section of the team separately and assume that it's a simple question of strengthening that specific section. Adding Walker to City is more of an attacking addition than a defensive anyway, the more powerful they become attacking wise, the less defending they will have to do which will make our superiority in that department meaningless. The flip side though is that we find an extra 30 goals from somewhere and Walker doesn't help them dominate the way Pep likes which will expose their defence to a point they are simply not prepared for.
 
ROFLUTION said:
Fair enough. Personally I see Chelsea and City competing, but we've only strengthened in defence where we were strong already. Hard to say yet if Lukaku will be better than Zlatan. Spurs will underperform at Wembley, Liverpool's a joker, but Yeah, depends who Chelsea replaces Costa with. Right now they need a striker.

We really need to hijack Mendy
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No, you will see much more of Luke Shaw this year that'll be like a new signing in itself and if he hits the ground running we will have one of the best full backs in the league. Valencia at RB is the one we should be looking at competition for as Blind and Darmian can compete at LB.

I think Chelsea will struggle this year they won't be as dangerous without Costa and Conte has made a mistake getting rid of him when he could of spent that money elsewhere. City have strong team a little attack heavy but a strong defence with Walker and Mendy incoming and the jury is still out on Pep Guadiola's style of football working in the premier league.

It's certainly going to be interesting.
 
If they can forgive a first team striker refusing to come on as a substitute then fecking off on a golfing holiday to Bumfeck, Idaho and revere him as a legend, this is nothing.
 
Carl said:
Sorting your fantasy team? :lol:

Yeh will be Trippier unless they sign a replacement (bid turned down for Rafael apparently). Trippier did well at the tail end of last season.
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:lol: its that time of the season
 
Guardiola makes me sick to my stomach. Thinks he's the greatest manager ever when he's had nothing but deep pockets to work with wherever he's went. And it definitely helps the 3 leagues he's been part of he's been/picked teams that don't have any real financial restrictions.

Easily got away with it in Spain and Germany but not such a walk in the park in England. Fwiw I'm not a blind homer by any means and understand the top quality teams in those other 2 leagues are considerably superior to the top teams in the EPL but the difference lies after that top tier. Generally light years easier to walk through mid/bottom tier clubs in La Liga+Bundesliga compared to the EPL and I'm glad this farce of a manager came to England to expose himself. Not so easy to be able to get your way like you have in clubs/leagues past.

..his stubbornness to get x player regardless of the consequence ruins football. £50M plus add ons for Walker? Get the feck out of here! Absolutely insane. Still won't be as easy as he thinks to win the league and still doubt they do.
 
Manchester Dan said:
OK but this is a squad being built to challenge for a few seasons, if they don't qualify now they will very shortly. Given the foreign market far exceeds the home grown market it makes complete sense to snap Walker up if he's available. If it was £40m we'd be saying it's a great deal, so I can live with a £10m overpayment.

Regardless of cost though, Walker is a massive upgrade on Sagna, and one of the best in the league. We've addressed a clear gap in the squad. If you throw Mendy in as well I'd actually start to get excited that Mendy, Walker, Stones and Kompany has the potential to be an incredibly strong back four. I'd still argue we need a DM and the lack of links to one is my biggest gripe so far!
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Kompany is never fit and Stones is shit, I would not, as a city fan be excited about going into a season with that as my main central pairing.
 
Manchester Dan said:
OK but this is a squad being built to challenge for a few seasons, if they don't qualify now they will very shortly. Given the foreign market far exceeds the home grown market it makes complete sense to snap Walker up if he's available. If it was £40m we'd be saying it's a great deal, so I can live with a £10m overpayment.

Regardless of cost though, Walker is a massive upgrade on Sagna, and one of the best in the league. We've addressed a clear gap in the squad. If you throw Mendy in as well I'd actually start to get excited that Mendy, Walker, Stones and Kompany has the potential to be an incredibly strong back four. I'd still argue we need a DM and the lack of links to one is my biggest gripe so far!
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Of course signing a home grown player makes sense, I made the point earlier that his transfer fee probably is bumped up due to him being qualified as home grown. I made the same point with Lukaku and his fee.
 
Ducklegs said:
Kompany is never fit and Stones is shit, I would not, as a city fan be excited about going into a season with that as my main central pairing.
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He does struggle for fitness but he managed a nice run at the back end of the season, and when he is fit there's nobody even close to him in this league, the thought of a fit Kompany would excite any fan. It's the hope that kills us.

We'll see on Stones, I disagree but I've tried and failed to convince others before and I can accept until he starts doing it in a City shirt people have a fair argument. We'd definitely have the best set of fullbacks in the league mind you.
 
JustAFan said:
Of course signing a home grown player makes sense, I made the point earlier that his transfer fee probably is bumped up due to him being qualified as home grown. I made the same point with Lukaku and his fee.
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Didn't realise Lukaku was homegrown.

Interesting. Makes a big difference.
 
M4YON said:
I agree but that has nothing to do with Kyle Walker and Mendy helping City walk the league. Our defence and goalkeeper are superior in some ways and equal in others. They do have better attacking options but I dont see them walking the league at all it will be a good contest between the usual suspects.
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Sensible post in a forum thats gotten really dramatic the last week or two.
 
VancouverUtdFan said:
Guardiola makes me sick to my stomach. Thinks he's the greatest manager ever when he's had nothing but deep pockets to work with wherever he's went. And it definitely helps the 3 leagues he's been part of he's been/picked teams that don't have any real financial restrictions.

Easily got away with it in Spain and Germany but not such a walk in the park in England. Fwiw I'm not a blind homer by any means and understand the top quality teams in those other 2 leagues are considerably superior to the top teams in the EPL but the difference lies after that top tier. Generally light years easier to walk through mid/bottom tier clubs in La Liga+Bundesliga compared to the EPL and I'm glad this farce of a manager came to England to expose himself. Not so easy to be able to get your way like you have in clubs/leagues past.

..his stubbornness to get x player regardless of the consequence ruins football. £50M plus add ons for Walker? Get the feck out of here! Absolutely insane. Still won't be as easy as he thinks to win the league and still doubt they do.
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Englands record in mid level comps like the Europa really hammer home your point too. Do you really think Everton, Southampton and B'Mouth are far ahead of Villareal, Sociedad and Bilbao? Or go a bit lower and Leicester and Stoke are far superior to Valencia and Celta Vigo (you United fans should most of all know the answer there.) Its a myth the bottom of the prem is clearly superior to the bottom of La Liga.
 
M4YON said:
No, you will see much more of Luke Shaw this year that'll be like a new signing in itself and if he hits the ground running we will have one of the best full backs in the league. Valencia at RB is the one we should be looking at competition for as Blind and Darmian can compete at LB.

I think Chelsea will struggle this year they won't be as dangerous without Costa and Conte has made a mistake getting rid of him when he could of spent that money elsewhere. City have strong team a little attack heavy but a strong defence with Walker and Mendy incoming and the jury is still out on Pep Guadiola's style of football working in the premier league.

It's certainly going to be interesting.
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Chelsea will replace Costa with quality. And if their attempted signings of Danilo and Alex Sandro go through, they are going to be stronger than last season.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
Chelsea will replace Costa with quality. And if their attempted signings of Danilo and Alex Sandro go through, they are going to be stronger than last season.
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Costa is quality, pushing him out the door to suit his own ego in his first year at the club is a mistake. Anyone they sign now will have to adjust to the league first hence why the wanted Lukaku so badly.
 
M4YON said:
Costa is quality, pushing him out the door to suit his own ego in his first year at the club is a mistake. Anyone they sign now will have to adjust to the league first hence why the wanted Lukaku so badly.
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If Jose had allowed Costa to leave that summer, we'd probably still have LVG as manager
 
Carl said:
What I would say is, Walker has improved remarkably since Poch took over. I'm not saying he's a defensive coach but his teams are very well disciplined defensively, and Walker has clearly benefited from that.

Fingers crossed a return to a much more offensive coach (or more, defensively indisciplined) we might see walker return to the crash bang performances that got him his bad rep in the first place.
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Yet Poch benched him for Trippier and then claimed Walker wasn't fit enough. No doubt Walker has improved, but he's not as good as people make out. He's gone from being under rated to now being over rated.

Fact is that if he was as good as people make out Trippier wouldn't have been able to dislodge him last season.
 
M4YON said:
No, you will see much more of Luke Shaw this year that'll be like a new signing.
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This line has been trotted out for the last 3 seasons and it annoys me that him becoming an incredible player for us is treated as some eventuality. I know he's had injury issues but apart from 8 games or so before his leg break he hasn't shown anything. I like Shaw and want him to be a success but we cannot afford to waste anymore time for players to just suddenly raise their level.
 
Not the best RB in the league. Fullbacks were never their problem anyway. 50 Mil makes Roms fee look great.

Dier was a longshot to begin with, but this nails it down for me. Tottenham wont be losing 2 of their best Xl in the same summer I dont think.
 
Spurs will never sell
Levy is impossible to deal with
only signed a 5 yeard deal in 2016
no fee agreed
is happy at spurs
dont sell to rivals
We dont sell our stars
Higher wages dont matter
has just got a huge pay rise

Glaston where are you hiding?
 
RedSky said:
Yet Poch benched him for Trippier and then claimed Walker wasn't fit enough. No doubt Walker has improved, but he's not as good as people make out. He's gone from being under rated to now being over rated.

Fact is that if he was as good as people make out Trippier wouldn't have been able to dislodge him last season.
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Your my best United friend, I agree with everything you say. Give me a hug!
 
Klopp_De_Klown said:
Spurs will never sell
Levy is impossible to deal with
only signed a 5 yeard deal in 2016
no fee agreed
is happy at spurs
dont sell to rivals
We dont sell our stars
Higher wages dont matter
has just got a huge pay rise

Glaston where are you hiding?
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To be fair Glaston did say he thought Walker might leave for 50m.

For me personally I thought the breaking point would be closer to 60m, but then again, helping City with their homegrown quota and wanting to keep them without a good RB affected that fee more than the money itself.

Personally I'm sad to see him go, but if Poch believes he can improve our team, and the 50m+ is vital in order to do so I can understand this, especially since we're selling him at 27, and unlikely to be able to get anywhere close to this fee in the future.

The 'Spurs don't sell to Rivals' thing is not quite accurate imo since this is not a player we were desperate to keep and we got a world record fee for a defender.
 
Nobody can give Spurs shit for this sale.

£50m for a very good but not great right back. That's insane.
 
RedSky said:
Yet Poch benched him for Trippier and then claimed Walker wasn't fit enough. No doubt Walker has improved, but he's not as good as people make out. He's gone from being under rated to now being over rated.

Fact is that if he was as good as people make out Trippier wouldn't have been able to dislodge him last season.
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Thought it was widely accepted that walker was only dropped because he was already aggitating for a move at that point?
 
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