Koke (For the Summer)

m1y2 said:
I think he could be a good buy but can he bring any balance to the team? I didn't think that Fabregas could play for Chelsea at the base of midfield and yet he plays there and is the hell of a player and they don't struggle defensively much, Koke would be great but there will be other options and first we need to find palce for Herrera..
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Koke is much better defensively than Cesc, he's a better tackler and his work rate and positioning are very good. On the other hand, he's less proven in the middle - I don't see it being a problem, and actually wish Simeone played him there more often, but at the minute he usually plays wide.

He's definitely not the best midfielder in the world by the way, he's very good but I think people have started to overrate him.
 
I've been wanting us to sign him since last season. Great all around player, who can do a good job in pretty much any role asked of him.
 
I highly doubt that he would turn us down based on the fact that we would likely double his wages.

That sort of money overrules club loyalty.
 
Formation time! For next season:

DDG (?!)
Clyne - Hummels - Rojo - Shaw
Blind
Koke - Herrera
Depay - Rooney - Di Maria
​
What are we talking there, 110m?

Shit. Would be nice, though. That being said, I think I'd prefer Pogba to Koke.
 
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TooBias said:
Formation time! For next season:

DDG (?!)
Clyne - Hummels - Rojo - Shaw
Blind
Koke - Herrera
Depay - Rooney - Nani
​
What are we talking there, 110m?

Shit. Would be nice, though. That being said, I think I'd prefer Pogba to Koke.
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Di Maria is not good enough?
 
TooBias said:
Formation time! For next season:

DDG (?!)
Rafael - Hummels - Rojo - Shaw
Blind
Herrera- Di Maria
Depay/Januzaj - Rooney - Reus
​
What are we talking there, 110m?

Shit. Would be nice, though. That being said, I think I'd prefer Pogba to Koke.
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Rather go with that if pogba isnt available. Di Maria can replicate his madrid form with reus performing a similar role to ronaldo.
 
That Blind/Di Maria/Herrera midfield is never going to happen, not careful enough in possession and no physicality.
 
KingMinger22 said:
I highly doubt that he would turn us down based on the fact that we would likely double his wages.

That sort of money overrules club loyalty.
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Not really. He has already signed 3 contract extensions with Atletico in the last 18 months, so his salary will be decent. Plus he also turned Barca down in the summer who would have also paid him a lot.
 
Devil may care said:
That Blind/Di Maria/Herrera midfield is never going to happen, not careful enough in possession and no physicality.
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Plus it has the most hateful character in the history of Manchester United and perhaps Premier League. He should not be allowed anywhere near the team.
 
Devil may care said:
That Blind/Di Maria/Herrera midfield is never going to happen, not careful enough in possession and no physicality.
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If Alonso-Modric and Di Maria can work, so can that trio.
Sarni said:
Plus it has the most hateful character in the history of Manchester United and perhaps Premier League. He should not be allowed anywhere near the team.
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Who?
 
DomesticTadpole said:
Well that's just tough.:lol:
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Heh! I think we could get away with Herrera and Koke with Blind, but my feeling is that Di Maria's style will see him deployed mostly as a free role attacker as LvG favours possession based midfield play.

Sarni said:
Plus it has the most hateful character in the history of Manchester United and perhaps Premier League. He should not be allowed anywhere near the team.
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That's not true, most here say Blind is dreamy. :wenger:
 
MJJ said:
If Alonso-Modric and Di Maria can work, so can that trio.
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That worked in La Liga not the PL, very different leagues, not to mention that Real have Ronaldo and Bale up top which means teams have to play deeper to avoid their pace and that means a lot less pressure on the midfield.
 
MJJ said:
If Alonso-Modric and Di Maria can work, so can that trio.


Who?
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Herrera obviously.

He's probably never going to start again. I doubt van Gaal even bears looking in his direction.
 
MJJ said:
If Alonso-Modric and Di Maria can work, so can that trio.
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Modrić is much, much safer (and better) on the ball than Ander Herrera though. I think the trio can work at Man Utd, but not in a possession style game.
 
MJJ said:
PL and the CL.
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PL and CL? That trio never played in the PL and as far as the CL goes it's a different type of football to the teams we play a lot of weeks in the league, not to mention you ignored the part about a big part of the reason it worked was the pace and threat they have up top that kept pressure off the midfield, Falcao and RvP aren't worrying any defenses with their speed.

The fact is that LvG will never play it, he's shown he'd rather play Di Maria anywhere else to the point of even playing Januzaj in left midfield over him, and he doesn't play Herrera at all, favouring playing our best striker out of position to avoid having to use him.
 
Devil may care said:
That Blind/Di Maria/Herrera midfield is never going to happen, not careful enough in possession and no physicality.
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We need people who can be comfortable on the ball and not shit themselves when they see any opponent player a 100 yards away. I think that midfield can be awesome with Di Maria's pace and ability to run with the ball, Herrera's ability to move the ball quickly and more forward than back and Blind covering and dictating from in front of the back 4.
 
MJJ said:
If Alonso-Modric and Di Maria can work, so can that trio.
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It could work. But not work to the same effect.
We'd be missing Modrić. Which makes all the difference. Herrera's no Modrić.
 
united_99 said:
Not really. He has already signed 3 contract extensions with Atletico in the last 18 months, so his salary will be decent. Plus he also turned Barca down in the summer who would have also paid him a lot.
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Big difference between decent salary from Atletico and what he could get from us. It's not bragging, it is just the truth.
 
NK86 said:
We need people who can be comfortable on the ball and not shit themselves when they see any opponent player a 100 yards away. I think that midfield can be awesome with Di Maria's pace and ability to run with the ball, Herrera's ability to move the ball quickly and more forward than back and Blind covering and dictating from in front of the back 4.
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LvG likes players in midfield who are patient and wait for the right pass instead of immediately trying to attack whether it's right or not, in Di Maria and Herrera you'd have two players who have the same flaw that he doesn't like, hence why neither are used in midfield. I think if given a chance and games Herrera could be what he wants, but Di Maria needs to be free of the type of duties LvG requires from anyone playing in midfield.
 
Devil may care said:
LvG likes players in midfield who are patient and wait for the right pass instead of immediately trying to attack whether it's right or not, in Di Maria and Herrera you'd have two players who have the same flaw that he doesn't like, hence why neither are used in midfield. I think if given a chance and games Herrera could be what he wants, but Di Maria needs to be free of the type of duties LvG requires from anyone playing in midfield.
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I was not talking about what LVG likes or dislikes. I was merely commenting on whether that midfield would work for us.
 
NK86 said:
I was not talking about what LVG likes or dislikes. I was merely commenting on whether that midfield would work for us.
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Fair enough, but since LvG is the manager I factor that into any debate on transfers, plus I think any manager working in the PL would play Di Maria as a forward and not risk him in midfield.
 
DarkXaero said:
Big difference between decent salary from Atletico and what he could get from us. It's not bragging, it is just the truth.
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You think Barca didn't offer him enough? Plus actually with all the stuff Atletico have won in the last 3 years compared to us I would be surprised if his salary + bonus wasn't already similar to some of our players.
In the end Koke isn't leaving his boyhood club just for a bit more cash. He is only going to leave if Atletico fall too much behind.
 
united_99 said:
You think Barca didn't offer him enough? Plus actually with all the stuff Atletico have won in the last 3 years compared to us I would be surprised if his salary + bonus wasn't already similar to some of our players.
In the end Koke isn't leaving his boyhood club just for a bit more cash. He is only going to leave if Atletico fall too much behind.
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I'm sure Barca gave him a good offer. We can still give him a better offer though. Loyalty exists but big money salary can often compensate for it.
 
He'd be perfect for the role Rooney is being used in, in the diamond, and could do the other part of it where we switch to 4-2-3-1 for the last 15 minutes and Rooney moves central next to Blind.
 
united_99 said:
You think Barca didn't offer him enough? Plus actually with all the stuff Atletico have won in the last 3 years compared to us I would be surprised if his salary + bonus wasn't already similar to some of our players.
In the end Koke isn't leaving his boyhood club just for a bit more cash. He is only going to leave if Atletico fall too much behind.
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Atletico's wage bill last year was smaller than QPR.

When you say ''similar to some of ours'' I assume you mean fringe players? e.g. Nani, Young, Fellaini, etc.

Rooney, RVP, Di Maria, Falcao earn probably three times him.

Wages in La Liga outside of the top 2 are miles off their PL equivalents.
 
united_99 said:
You think Barca didn't offer him enough? Plus actually with all the stuff Atletico have won in the last 3 years compared to us I would be surprised if his salary + bonus wasn't already similar to some of our players.
In the end Koke isn't leaving his boyhood club just for a bit more cash. He is only going to leave if Atletico fall too much behind.
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If you think that money is not a persuasive factor then you are living in another era. We all can speculate that DDG could go to Real despite being an Atl player right through the youth ranks but cannot imagine Koke leaving Atl for a club with a much much bigger name and presence not only in Europe but across the world.
 
KingMinger22 said:
Atletico's wage bill last year was smaller than QPR.

When you say ''similar to some of ours'' I assume you mean fringe players? e.g. Nani, Young, Fellaini, etc.

Rooney, RVP, Di Maria, Falcao earn probably three times him.

Wages in La Liga outside of the top 2 are miles off their PL equivalents.
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NK86 said:
If you think that money is not a persuasive factor then you are living in another era. We all can speculate that DDG could go to Real despite being an Atl player right through the youth ranks but cannot imagine Koke leaving Atl for a club with a much much bigger name and presence not only in Europe but across the world.
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Well you can believe whatever you want and obviously money matters but it's not the most important factor to everyone. Plus Koke is only 23 and not 30 and thus under pressure to sign his last new huge contract.

Atletico are also no minnows, their wage bill is the third highest in Spain after the big 2. They just bought Mandzukic who was already earning 5 mil € at Bayern.

And Koke is much more important to them than someone likevMandzukic, he is their franchise player they will do everything / break their wage structure to keep him. After all despite interests from United and Barca in the past he is still there. Then there's Godin - one of the vers few world class defenders and already 29 - and he is also still there.
Simeone - who has been getting interest from all European big clubs for a while - is also still there.

In the end Koke will probably leave one day as Atletico will once fall more behind and money might matter as well, but if it was the most important factor to him, then he would have already left obviously. To suggest he would leave immediately because of money is baseless as there is evidence to the contrary (he is still thete despite United's and Barca's interest) plus Atletico are not Eibar, they do have money nowadays.
 
united_99 said:
Well you can believe whatever you want and obviously money matters but it's not the most important factor to everyone. Plus Koke is only 23 and not 30 and thus under pressure to sign his last new huge contract.

Atletico are also no minnows, their wage bill is the third highest in Spain after the big 2. They just bought Mandzukic who was already earning 5 mil € at Bayern.

And Koke is much more important to them than someone likevMandzukic, he is their franchise player they will do everything / break their wage structure to keep him. After all despite interests from United and Barca in the past he is still there. Then there's Godin - one of the vers few world class defenders and already 29 - and he is also still there.
Simeone - who has been getting interest from all European big clubs for a while - is also still there.

In the end Koke will probably leave one day as Atletico will once fall more behind and money might matter as well, but if it was the most important factor to him, then he would have already left obviously. To suggest he would leave immediately because of money is baseless as there is evidence to the contrary (he is still thete despite United's and Barca's interest) plus Atletico are not Eibar, they do have money nowadays.
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Financially Atletico absolutely are minnows.

Do some research on their finances and the rest if La Liga's. It's an absolutely mess outside of the duopoly.
 
Don't they sell one big asset every season? Koke is worth nearly £20M more buyout-wise than their other biggest asset and maybe Simeone feels Saul can come into the team as the next of their production line.
 
KingMinger22 said:
Financially Atletico absolutely are minnows.

Do some research on their finances and the rest if La Liga's. It's an absolutely mess outside of the duopoly.
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Again, Atletico have earned enough money in the last 3 years, EL winners, CL finalists, La Liga winners, CL regulars now.

But anyway, go on: Why in your opinion is Koke then still at the minnow's Atletico despite interest of two giants like Barca and United? Then he was al´so linked to Bayern Munich but the rumoured interest was not as strong as from Barca/United as far as I could follow.

He is currently at his boyhood club, living in a city like Madrid, winning stuff regularly, increasing his salary every 6-8 months (who knows, maybe he also gets a signing on fee or similar things every time he extends). In addition only recently they have got this Chinese guy who bought 20 % stake in the club.

You need to consider how Atletico work and not how United / Madrid works and then just transform it to Atletico. United / Madrid have ridiculous revenues but then they also have 30 mil players sitting on the bench earning a fortune. Atletico aren't close to that kind of revenue but then they are also not close to having expensive transfers on the bench or high earning squad players. Their squad is paper thin and they have a very clear first 11 most of the time without much rotation. This way they can focus to give their regulars most of the money and have squad players on relatively low wages. Yes, they sell 1 or 2 players every summer, but they don't need to for now, they didn't force Costa to leave for example.

It's not strange at all that Koke might value (just as an example) "6 mil salary + his boyhood club where he is settled and loved / his gf and family are settled + the city Madrid and then Spain in general" higher than "a big European club + 10 mil salary".

Money is important as everyone knows, but not equally important to everyone especially compared to some other aspects (it's always a combination package).

Because for every Götze or Kroos there is a Hummels, Godin or even our own Scholes who was never the highest earner at United and could have signed a blank check at Inter but didn't even consider it.
 
Devil may care said:
Don't they sell one big asset every season? Koke is worth nearly £20M more buyout-wise than their other biggest asset and maybe Simeone feels Saul can come into the team as the next of their production line.
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They've sold Falcao and Diego Costa in recent seasons. Costa's buyout clause was triggered by Chelsea, no idea about Falcao's move to Monaco. Koke's I think is €47m.
 
KingMinger22 said:
Financially Atletico absolutely are minnows.

Do some research on their finances and the rest if La Liga's. It's an absolutely mess outside of the duopoly.
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Atletico is improving financially, they don't need to sell anyone currently. Only sales were triggered due to release clause and they made decent money in each business. Also now a Chinese investor Wang Jianlin also bought 20% stake in the club. He's 2nd richest man in China. As for football, they surely are among the top teams in Europe now. He refused interest from Barca at the end of last season, he himself admitted that. It would be tough to get him now, not below his release clause anyway.
 
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