Ah ok, fair enough. I still have the memory of Newcastle fresh in my mind. So I'll ignore your "Is he feck." contribution for now.
Last edited:
37
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 20
- Goals
- 0
- Assists
- 0
- Yellow cards
- 6
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
Ah ok, fair enough. I still have the memory of Newcastle fresh in my mind. So I'll ignore your "Is he feck." contribution for now.
I have tonight fresher and watching Mainoo get dominated by a far worse midfield than Newcastle.
Then of course we have Bournemouth twatting us 0-3 and Wolves 0-2, with Mainoo doing his usual hiding act on all set pieces and offering absolutely naff all in general play.
Yeah most want rid of Garnacho for ‘pure profit’, Mainoo is in the same camp for me, a good fee comes in for him we should consider selling him. I like him and think he’ll get better but if we are comparing apples with apples he doesn’t fit the system and should be sold.
Well that's that then, probably not worth further discussion if we disagree on those performances.
I've asked this before, but why is our academy so, so poor at developing midfielders. Any midfielder that has come through our youth system since Fletcher lacks the fundamental quality to just get onto the ball.
They don't get anywhere near as many touches as CMs need to. Way too passive, way too timid in passion and at times out of possession. It's a trademark of any midfielders that's come through our system for donkeys.
They don't get anywhere near as many touches as CMs need to. Way too passive, way too timid in passion and at times out of possession. It's a trademark of any midfielders that's come through our system for donkeys.
Pogba?
Jesus. What a pack of hyenas you lot are. Same type of people who were demanding that Amad be sold right up until he became our best player.
He’s better than he is showing the moment and had some good games recently. But his lack of athleticism is a big problem and I don’t think he is going to reach the levels a lot of people think. I certainly wouldn’t pay him anything remotely close to 200k a week.
When he was playing well and was arguably the best player at the club last season, he was getting praised to the hilt. Effectively undroppable. The hype the fanbase gave him contributed greatly to him getting picked for the Euros.
Now he's playing poorly and we're a pack of hyenas. We weren't a pack of hyenas when we were practically worshipping him last year were we? This is the deal football players make when they play for clubs of our magnitude. You play great consistently and you will be treated like a king. You play poorly consistently then you deserve to be criticized. Simple as that.
You're a pack of hyenas because this is what young players do but there's calls for him to be sold, posts talking about how he's overrated and limited, etc, etc. How about we let him develop, he's still a fecking teenager.
We're not in a position to do that. In an ideal world yeah, we look at his two outstanding attributes - composure, ball carrying - and see if he develops something else alongside. We're not in an ideal world though. We have zero PSR room and very few sellable assets. Mainoo is one of those.
The reason we have zero PSR room (along with terrible spending) is that we insist on keeping every last player out of pure fear that they'll explode somewhere else. Any good game or tiny bit of form is seen as proof of their 'potential'.
We loaned a basically finished 28 year old Lingard out to West Ham and it actually worked for once! He went on a crazy run. Suddenly became valuable again. Any sensible club and fanbase would have seen this as the perfect time to sell - an absolute smash and grab win. Us? 'Young Jesse is back! Remember the Cup Final goal?!?" and we keep him until he's worthless again. We did the same with Rashford. Could have sold him for £100m after his hot season, with years of evidence of purple patches and downed tools. Nope. "Is Rashy better than Mbappe? Why wasn't he in the Balon D'or shortlist". A £350k contract later and he's worthless again. The list goes on.
We've become the football equivalent of a hoarder. Always insisting 'we can't throw out Uncle Jim's collection of Happy Meal toys from 1965...they could be worth something in another 10 or 20 years'
Oh and also if Mainoo and his agent think he's a £200k p/w player he can be criticised like a £200k p/w player.
Couldn't agree more. As a club and fanbase we're far too sentimental and it's cost us time and time again.
Mainoo has clear deficiencies in his game (stamina, mobility and range of passing), is struggling for form (naturally in his second season but struggling nonetheless) and is also struggling to agree a new deal with the club. We'd be silly not to consider it if we got a good offer for him. Particularly if him and his agents are staying firm with their supposed wage demands.
Wish he would at least have that “contract negotiation year” bounce. Sad.
You'd hope he'd actually put some good performances in before demanding 200k.
Not judging him in this dysfunctional team as a 19 year old.
In a slightly better (but still shit) team last season, he was far better.
In a slightly better (but still shit) team last season, he was far better.
I think he looks heavy, like he's bulked up a bit too much. I also think he's gone against his early keep it simple breakthrough style, now he's more confident and he's holding on to the ball that second or two too long. He's been doing it all season in all honesty.
He needs to go back to basics and just keep it simple, two touch football.
He needs to go back to basics and just keep it simple, two touch football.
He wasn't really good in those games
He completed 15 passes against Arsenal. Lets remember what a midfielder in there for. It's not possible for a midfielder to only complete 15 passes and be really good.
Odegaard completed 75 passes and Jorginho 74.
By any definition, that's the midfield battle lost.
22 passes in the Liverpool game. Gravenberch dribbled past him 3 times because the disparity in their athleticism is huge.
Gravenberch and MacAllister dictated the game, the midfield battle was lost.
Getting results that are better than expected does not hide the fact that a player like Mainoo is getting dominated in midfield.
Needs to start passing forward. He's extremely conservative with the ball and that won't work when his partner is Ugarte. His awareness in midfield is poor sometimes, getting beat by basic one twos or just basically being a step behind play. He just doesn't seem energetic enough. I'm quite sure he was more explosive when he just broke into the team.
He's seen as a great talent, good player for sure but if he wants to get to the next level he needs to start being braver. Get on the ball and make something happen, endlessly recycling possession won't help us progress the ball. If i were him I'd be worried about how frequently Amorim is taking him off these days, he's seeing some things he doesn't like and soon may leave him out of the team entirely.
He's seen as a great talent, good player for sure but if he wants to get to the next level he needs to start being braver. Get on the ball and make something happen, endlessly recycling possession won't help us progress the ball. If i were him I'd be worried about how frequently Amorim is taking him off these days, he's seeing some things he doesn't like and soon may leave him out of the team entirely.
Same as last game. Not great but the platform to perform is shit and we're putting far too much on his shoulders.
You'll like to think players like him and Yoro will grow or learn from these experiences but I look at the likes of Martial, Rashford etc under Ole and have doubts.
Amorim looks be cut from a different cloth but the immediate futures seems so fecking bleak.
You'll like to think players like him and Yoro will grow or learn from these experiences but I look at the likes of Martial, Rashford etc under Ole and have doubts.
Amorim looks be cut from a different cloth but the immediate futures seems so fecking bleak.
He is, by far, unless you consider Bruno to be one (then he's probably our 3rd best option). And Mainoo is pretty poor at the moment.
Pogba at the lowest had 71,9 touches per 90 and at best had 87,7 (seasonal stats at United, at Juve he played a bit further forward but still was in high 60's). Gomes isn't quite as good but had averaged around 65 touches per 90 for the past two seasons (significantly less this season with 48, not sure what's going on). Cleverley ranges from 45 to 66 for Watford, usually in mid-50's which isn't brilliant but isn't that bad either.
We don't produce enough quality midfielders period but I don't think that you can point to the lack of touches as a specific and a systemic issue. It's quality (or the lack of), not style.
3 days ago Scholes said he is the future of the club for the next 10 years.
He would need to pour the concrete out of his boots if that’s to happen.
He would need to pour the concrete out of his boots if that’s to happen.
I agree, he's more suited towards a 10 position, in and around the opponents box. So we either use him as a LAM or sell him, as he doesn't have the skillset to play a 6.
Just like I feel Garnacho doesn't have the skillset to play the LAM.
He did not look like belonging in a PL game. He is a young boy and I will not criticise him too much but if I had to choose today between giving him a fat contract or selling him for a decent fee I would probably go for the latter. Not his fault but we are running out of time and need someone more polished.
If 99% amateur Caf can see that Mainoo isn't suitable as central midfielder (at the moment), I'm curious of why Amorim keeps insisting? Just try other player. Try Maz, Martinez, Bruno, or anyone.
But he was poor against the press.
Academy players always get a longer free pass, whichever fan base we talk about
Thing is, you were so average last season that it wasn't hard for Mainoo to look good (nor Garnacho for that matter). I'd contend that he was good but not THAT good.
The weaknesses that many talk about were there last season too, but people didn't want to see them. Even when playing for England, I noticed that he had a tendency to stand tight alongside an opposition player, thus making it hard for one of the centre-halves to pass to him and get a move started, so it's not just a MUFC issue
But the main problem is that intensity is so important in premier league football nowadays (look at Bournemouth's play against Newcastle yesterday, for example) and I don't see any intensity in Mainoo's game at all. He could feasibly play in an Eddie Howe-style three-man midfield but in a two his lack of intensity is hugely problematic for his partner, whoever that is. I could see him being better suited to La Liga or Serie A, but Premier League? I don't see it
Part of the problem is his best position. another poster made a great point, I think, when they said he's 'positionally ambigious.' - is he a 6? Not at all yet, but could see potentially see him playing there as an older player. An 8? Most likely, but probably only in a midfield three for now. A 10? Some of his neat interplay suggests so, but his limited goal threat and lack of assists hardly point to him being a 10, let alone an elite one.
He's not as bad now as many are saying, just like he wasn't as good last season as many were making him out to be.
I still think he can be a good player, but surely you'd be mad to turn down any bid around 70-100m (though on current form his value is plummeting), especially with so many issues that need fixing in your squad - goalkeeper, striker, centre midfield and left wing-back
Thing is, you were so average last season that it wasn't hard for Mainoo to look good (nor Garnacho for that matter). I'd contend that he was good but not THAT good.
The weaknesses that many talk about were there last season too, but people didn't want to see them. Even when playing for England, I noticed that he had a tendency to stand tight alongside an opposition player, thus making it hard for one of the centre-halves to pass to him and get a move started, so it's not just a MUFC issue
But the main problem is that intensity is so important in premier league football nowadays (look at Bournemouth's play against Newcastle yesterday, for example) and I don't see any intensity in Mainoo's game at all. He could feasibly play in an Eddie Howe-style three-man midfield but in a two his lack of intensity is hugely problematic for his partner, whoever that is. I could see him being better suited to La Liga or Serie A, but Premier League? I don't see it
Part of the problem is his best position. another poster made a great point, I think, when they said he's 'positionally ambigious.' - is he a 6? Not at all yet, but could see potentially see him playing there as an older player. An 8? Most likely, but probably only in a midfield three for now. A 10? Some of his neat interplay suggests so, but his limited goal threat and lack of assists hardly point to him being a 10, let alone an elite one.
He's not as bad now as many are saying, just like he wasn't as good last season as many were making him out to be.
I still think he can be a good player, but surely you'd be mad to turn down any bid around 70-100m (though on current form his value is plummeting), especially with so many issues that need fixing in your squad - goalkeeper, striker, centre midfield and left wing-back
Last edited:
He's 19, relax. He was definitely as good as people were saying. Did it in the big games - man of the match FA cup final. Scored wonder goals. Elevated the England midfield. He was superb against Liverpool recently, best team in the league. The stands close an opposition player is deliberate, because of his touch and close control. There's some quotes floating around about Modric and Spurs. There's still a question about what sort of player he'll become (not guaranteed he'll become world class) but doubting his ability and impact at 18/19 is crazy.
This 3-4-3 is especially bad for him because it takes away his main strength in build up, taking the ball on the half turn from deep. The CBs basically spend time passing it around and then out through the wing backs. The CMs in the system are effectively just gap fillers covering space and not much play goes through them.
I'll be the first one to defend Mainoo but him not getting on the ball enough has been a problem all along and has little to do with the system. I'm sure it will come with experience though. I'm in disbelief that people are starting to write him already. We need a new midfielder for sure but we should be keeping Kobbie, he'll be fantastic within the next 2-3 season.
2 rough games in a row.
Looks like he doesn't have stamina. Doesn't move enough or make himself available for a pass. That's really poor for a midfielder. I thought he'd at least improve some aspects of his game this season but he's actually getting worse. Did the overhyping got to his head? I blame that plonker Southgate too. Under the spotlight way too soon and played way too often.
And now he's demanding a starter's wages as well, apparently. Well, bad timing on that from his camp. They can't demand anything right now.
And now he's demanding a starter's wages as well, apparently. Well, bad timing on that from his camp. They can't demand anything right now.
I like Mainoo, but he’s very overrated by many supporters. He’s quite poor defensively, lacks speed, and seems lost positionally at times. Obviously, he has many good characteristics and has a lot of potential. I think the reality is, though, he’s looked better than he really is just because of how poor the team has been - any spark looks extra bright. The problem is, on such a bad team with limited midfield options, he’s been thrust into a starting spot way too early. He’s being asked to do way too much and has too much responsibility, largely due to lack of options. I feel sorry for him in that respect. It’s definitely not good for his development. The solution isn’t to sell him (although he shouldn’t be considered untouchable by any means), it’s to bring in some better midfielders to take the pressure off and allow him to mature more organically.
I agree with this, far too many sideways and backwards passes. At times it's nice to retain possession and calm things down in the midfield area but he needs to also stretch the opposition.
I'm pretty sure the other teams midfielders are not in the slightest worried about playing against him, another player that is kinda doing enough but not "hurting" like the manager wants.
He needs to work on his passing most of all for me. If there was a genuine threat of him actually switching play he'd be far more dangerous. Yes his stamina is also a big concern and there's plenty of other things to work on too, but a lad as technically sound as him shouldn't be scared of playing long passes, it's sad. As long as the coaches are telling him the right things I'm confident he will improve though, he seems a fairly down to earth lad on the whole.
His lack of progressive passing has been obvious since he broke I to the team, to be honest, I remember when it was brought up at the start of the season (I think) and people got a fair bit annoyed at the suggestion.
I don't know what to make of him as a player now. He's slow and clumsy defensively (moreso now he seems to have added some mass) and not a progressive passer of the ball. He seems to do well in tight spaces with the ball at his feet, but... I'm not entirely sure what else he excels at. His game needs to expand, for sure.
I'd say Mainoo is neither as bad as his recent performances are indicating, nor as good as some of us might have wanted to believe last season.
The bottom line, as many people have argued, is that he's been playing regularly for a Premier League team since the age of 18. That in and of itself is an indicator that he's a very, very talented footballer. Midfielders around that age aren't exactly a dime a dozen in the top leagues, so it really does speak to his ability. Even disregarding his age, Mainoo has plenty of brilliant individual attributes too. He's got excellent balance and uses his body brilliantly when he's on the ball which makes him very "press-resistant", to use a term that has grown in popularity with the tacticos. He's also very composed, which was I believe what made him such a boon in Ten Hag's sides which were too often frenetic and incapable of slowing the tempo when necessary.
With that said, with his young age you also get very noticeable weaknesses and I am actually in agreement with the opinion that those weaknesses are unfortunately being amplified right now given the drastic lurch we've taken from Ten Hag's system to Amorim's. As others have said, a lot is made of Mainoo's physical limitations and I do think they're worth touching on - he's not yet an elite athlete when compared to a lot of his peers in midfield. This does sometimes mean that games will pass him by, although I do believe it to some extent comes with the territory with a player of his age. What I think is perhaps even more of an issue is that, despite being very good at slowing play down, Mainoo isn't particularly good at generating urgency when it's necessary. As others have pointed out, he's not a very adventurous passer, and it's fairly rare that he plays the pass that will "unlock" an opposition defence. Whilst it may seem intuitive that this would lend him to acclimatize to Amorim's slower, more considered approach better than Ten Hag's faster and more gung-ho style, it does also mean he's no longer the "stand-out" player who can change the team's tempo and further, as we're seeing at the moment, makes it hard to create chances if too many players are more risk-averse as Mainoo often is.
Very quickly after the match, I rather fatuously commented that I "didn't see why anyone would consider Mainoo unsellable" and that I'd "snap Chelsea's hand off for 100 million". Whilst I somewhat stand by the sentiment that 100 million would quite possibly be an over-payment, I was grossly over-simplifying things in saying this. At 19, Mainoo has ample time on his hands to develop into a much more rounded midfielder. What's more difficult for me is the consideration of whether Mainoo has a definitive place in a theoretical Amorim side that is successful in the future, and indeed whether it's even prudent to make all of our decisions on our young talents on the basis that Amorim will be here for the long-term given how poorly we've started under him.
The bottom line, as many people have argued, is that he's been playing regularly for a Premier League team since the age of 18. That in and of itself is an indicator that he's a very, very talented footballer. Midfielders around that age aren't exactly a dime a dozen in the top leagues, so it really does speak to his ability. Even disregarding his age, Mainoo has plenty of brilliant individual attributes too. He's got excellent balance and uses his body brilliantly when he's on the ball which makes him very "press-resistant", to use a term that has grown in popularity with the tacticos. He's also very composed, which was I believe what made him such a boon in Ten Hag's sides which were too often frenetic and incapable of slowing the tempo when necessary.
With that said, with his young age you also get very noticeable weaknesses and I am actually in agreement with the opinion that those weaknesses are unfortunately being amplified right now given the drastic lurch we've taken from Ten Hag's system to Amorim's. As others have said, a lot is made of Mainoo's physical limitations and I do think they're worth touching on - he's not yet an elite athlete when compared to a lot of his peers in midfield. This does sometimes mean that games will pass him by, although I do believe it to some extent comes with the territory with a player of his age. What I think is perhaps even more of an issue is that, despite being very good at slowing play down, Mainoo isn't particularly good at generating urgency when it's necessary. As others have pointed out, he's not a very adventurous passer, and it's fairly rare that he plays the pass that will "unlock" an opposition defence. Whilst it may seem intuitive that this would lend him to acclimatize to Amorim's slower, more considered approach better than Ten Hag's faster and more gung-ho style, it does also mean he's no longer the "stand-out" player who can change the team's tempo and further, as we're seeing at the moment, makes it hard to create chances if too many players are more risk-averse as Mainoo often is.
Very quickly after the match, I rather fatuously commented that I "didn't see why anyone would consider Mainoo unsellable" and that I'd "snap Chelsea's hand off for 100 million". Whilst I somewhat stand by the sentiment that 100 million would quite possibly be an over-payment, I was grossly over-simplifying things in saying this. At 19, Mainoo has ample time on his hands to develop into a much more rounded midfielder. What's more difficult for me is the consideration of whether Mainoo has a definitive place in a theoretical Amorim side that is successful in the future, and indeed whether it's even prudent to make all of our decisions on our young talents on the basis that Amorim will be here for the long-term given how poorly we've started under him.
I don’t want to sell Mainoo, not at all.
But interesting thought experiment… given Chelsea’s interest, would you swap Mainoo for Enzo?
Enzo—Ugarte
Mainoo-Caiciedo
Both pairings look better on paper
But interesting thought experiment… given Chelsea’s interest, would you swap Mainoo for Enzo?
Enzo—Ugarte
Mainoo-Caiciedo
Both pairings look better on paper
Chelsea's options are clearly superior.
Sell Mainoo and you get to bring in 2 or 3 players with that money, witht he way that amortization and ffp works. We may need to that considering all the gaps in this squad.
Why is he so allergic to any kind of forward pass? He just will not attempt one, ever.