[Pogue Mahone]

I don't know where this weird narrative that Mainoo isn't physical enough at the moment came from but it needs to end. When he was fit he was winning more duels and challenges than anyone else in our team, at an insane success rate. And he's clearly more mobile than Casemiro, even if that's not saying much considering neither are fleet of foot.

His main issue is moreso his distribution and creativity isn't very good right now, especially from deeper areas. He's only 19 so he'll pretty obviously gain a bit more athleticism as well but I'm more focused on those other two aspects of his game.

I would be more concerned about his positioning. Seeing Ugarte plugging gaps all over the pitch has me more and more conviced that a big factor in our wide open midfield under ETH was inexperience from Mainoo in terms of positioning himself when not in possession. On the plus side, this is likely 100% down to inexperience. So will get better and better the more he plays.

 

[Dan_F]

I almost got an aneurysm reading these comments. Where is this narrative coming from?

He was left exposed in that horrific midfield that Ten Hag played so people have assumed he can’t play central midfield, ignoring that every single midfielder in his system looked like that. Casemiro saw a big upturn under Ruud and I don’t really doubt Mainoo would too. Even Ugarte looked lost at times under Ten Hag and positioning, mobility etc are supposed to be his strengths.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

I would be more concerned about his positioning. Seeing Ugarte plugging gaps all over the pitch has me more and more conviced that a big factor in our wide open midfield under ETH was inexperience from Mainoo in terms of positioning himself when not in possession. On the plus side, this is likely 100% down to inexperience. So will get better and better the more he plays.

Eh, I thought under ETH all of our midfielders were left to pasture. Casemiro countless times found himself on an island or way out of position last season. Would rather see what it looks like under a competent coach for all of our guys.

 

[bosnian_red]

Has an enormous fight on his hands to get back into the XI.

He'll rotate in but long term I can see him really making his claim as one of the 2 #10's. In Amorims system it really seems like those 2 need to be very press resistant and good in small spaces.

 

[Raven]

I would be more concerned about his positioning. Seeing Ugarte plugging gaps all over the pitch has me more and more conviced that a big factor in our wide open midfield under ETH was inexperience from Mainoo in terms of positioning himself when not in possession. On the plus side, this is likely 100% down to inexperience. So will get better and better the more he plays.

But every midfielder we've got looked like shit under the bald one. We were also playing like shit before Mainoo returned from his 2-3 month injury last season. While he has stuff to learn I don't think it's particularly fair to blame Mainoo for a manager that was so remarkably put of his depth.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

But every midfielder we've got looked like shit under the bald one. We were also playing like shit before Mainoo returned from his 2-3 month injury last season. While he has stuff to learn I don't think it's particularly fair to blame Mainoo for a manager that was so remarkably put of his depth.

The manager's to blame for not picking a team/playing a system that gets the best out of all the players available to him.

That's a separate issue to whether or not a teenage CM still has a lot to learn. And it would be kind of amazing if he didn't. It's extremely unusual for any footballer who plays his position to be the finished article as young as he is.

 

[Godfather]

Doubt it. I’m not fooled by Casemiro’s recent displays. He’s still way past it and Ugarte is a newbie in English football. We need Mainoo back.

Casemiro is still hands down our best midfielder

 

[Highfather_24]

The manager's to blame for not picking a team/playing a system that gets the best out of all the players available to him.

While this is certainly true, I'm growing worried that most of our players dont complement each other. Some are suited for possession, some are suited for high press, some are suited for counter attacking style. No matter what style we choose, some wont fit.

There's also the question of, since our new manager will also probably adopt a "my way or the highway" approach, what that would mean for the players(the good ones), that dont align with that style.

The only way to solve this is to get an Ancelotti type, who tries to adapt to the players he has, and not the other way round.

 

[DJ_21]

And Kobbie, I can't see him getting into the side either unless he really improves his off the ball game.

Garnacho, I can only see him playing LWB or being sold.

Rashford, I cannot see him playing anywhere but being a rotation option upfront? He doesn't have the technical ability to play in the 10, nor the guile. He doesn't have the discipline or application to play wing back.. most likely loser in the Amorim formation.

Amad, I can see rotating in the 10 and maybe playing RWB when we are chasing a game?

Ye I agree. I’d like to see Garnacho/Amad play the wing back roles when we’re at home against a team we should be dominating. Could Mainoo not play alongside Ugarte in the midfield 2? I mean he played in a 2 in ETH chaotic system.

 

[Raven]

The manager's to blame for not picking a team/playing a system that gets the best out of all the players available to him.

That's a separate issue to whether or not a teenage CM still has a lot to learn. And it would be kind of amazing if he didn't. It's extremely unusual for any footballer who plays his position to be the finished article as young as he is.

Have you forgotten about suicide ball and the one man midfield? Fine if you have, I've been trying to forget that shit too.

I literally said he has things to learn?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Have you forgotten about suicide ball and the one man midfield? Fine if you have, I've been trying to forget that shit too.

I literally said he has things to learn?

I dunno what you mean by suicide ball but I do remember all the moaning about too many gaps in midfield. Hence I'm bringing up the possibility that a factor in this might be our reliance on a very young, inexperienced CM whose out of possession positioning might not (yet) be up to scratch. The guy you agree has things to learn. I'm not actually sure what you're disagreeing with here?

 

[euv2]

I almost got an aneurysm reading these comments. Where is this narrative coming from?

It's been perpetuated for quite some time now, people see him getting tired in the later stages of a match and forget the stuff earlier. Perhaps it's also the lack of G/A that's making people feel that way.

But statistically Mainoo has improved quite a bit this season defensively, some of the best stats in the league before he got injured. His possession/passing stats were very good too even for long balls (low quantity but still highest in the league) but volume is something that will improve in time as he gains more confidence. He lacks quite a bit in the creative department, so that's where people perhaps expect more from a skillful player but I don't agree in the slightest that he has not improved this season. He played a terrible dysfunctional team and midfield too, so expect his level to rise if we start playing well under Amorim.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Eh, I thought under ETH all of our midfielders were left to pasture. Casemiro countless times found himself on an island or way out of position last season. Would rather see what it looks like under a competent coach for all of our guys.

Which has been much less of an issue when he's partnered with Ugarte. I like Ruud but I think it's more likely that this change in personnel has closed down those gaps in midfield than a radical overhaul of our tactical approach. A tactical approach he was involved in throughout the season.

 

[Bon1803]

Mainoo has all the traits to be a top top player. He covers ground, press resistant, good dribbler and links play well. He also is good defensively.

He cannot be seriously judged on his role last season as it was impossible. You would have to be super human to pull off the role ETH wanted the CMs to play.

No surprise the midfield looked better under Ruud after a few tweaks. They didn’t have to cover acres in both directions.

If Mainoo can avoid consistent injuries I have a strong feeling he will be one of the best players we see. His quality is so obvious even in the flawed system he was playing in.

 

[Borussia Teeth]

I don't know where this weird narrative that Mainoo isn't physical enough at the moment came from but it needs to end. When he was fit he was winning more duels and challenges than anyone else in our team, at an insane success rate. And he's clearly more mobile than Casemiro, even if that's not saying much considering neither are fleet of foot.

His main issue is moreso his distribution and creativity isn't very good right now, especially from deeper areas. He's only 19 so he'll pretty obviously gain a bit more athleticism as well but I'm more focused on those other two aspects of his game.

I know, right. Mainoo obviously isn't some Fred-like ball chaser but he can definitely run more than present day Casemiro and he is deceptively strong in duels.

I look forward to his return and I'm glad that Casemiro is playing better, Eriksen seems to be having a decent season and Ugarte is settling in. Finally, we seem to have good options in midfield.

 

[Top_Bins]

Mainoo doesn’t have superior mobility to Casemiro, and Casemiro can play box to box just fine. I’d back him presently to outscore and out-create Mainoo from a CM position over a season, in addition to a good defensive contribution.

Mainoo is the best CM we have at linking play I think, and also ball-carrying. In my personal ideal world, I’d like to see him playing with Casemiro and Ugarte in a trio. In a double-pivot, I have long voiced concerns about his ability against the ball. He has very low running power, and frankly, if Amorim is to simply replicate his Sporting set up here, I don’t see a natural fit for him. I wouldn’t say he’s a player to play in a hard running two-man midfield screen, and while I have always seen him as a more advanced midfielder, I’m not sure he’s a ‘just off the striker’ player either. I think an advanced CM role is what suits him best, but in the deeper two, I think he may struggle to keep up a bit. At least for now, perhaps as he gets older he will become a better runner.

I'd say that Casemiro has positional sense well above Mainoo, but that is expected at his experience level. I'd see them both as rotating for the same position, rather than exhausting either. As you pointed out, Mainoo is no athletic dynamo but it may just be about improving cardio. I guess we'll see in the next few years if he can step up in that way.

 

[foolsgold]

Glad to see him on the road back, obviously never a player to be hurt, but I think the time out of the team will have done him good. Ten Hag was overplaying him out of desperation. He's still young and needs protection and rotation for his own good.

 

[andersj]

Mainoo doesn’t have superior mobility to Casemiro, and Casemiro can play box to box just fine. I’d back him presently to outscore and out-create Mainoo from a CM position over a season, in addition to a good defensive contribution.

Mainoo is the best CM we have at linking play I think, and also ball-carrying. In my personal ideal world, I’d like to see him playing with Casemiro and Ugarte in a trio. In a double-pivot, I have long voiced concerns about his ability against the ball. He has very low running power, and frankly, if Amorim is to simply replicate his Sporting set up here, I don’t see a natural fit for him. I wouldn’t say he’s a player to play in a hard running two-man midfield screen, and while I have always seen him as a more advanced midfielder, I’m not sure he’s a ‘just off the striker’ player either. I think an advanced CM role is what suits him best, but in the deeper two, I think he may struggle to keep up a bit. At least for now, perhaps as he gets older he will become a better runner.

I think you are right ane I agree with every word.

But, at 19 he has the chance to develop several part of his game. Including «running power». I think he should have stayed at home last summer and focused strictly on that part of his game. Hopefully, Amorim will protect him better.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Doubt it. I’m not fooled by Casemiro’s recent displays. He’s still way past it and Ugarte is a newbie in English football. We need Mainoo back.

Like feck he is. He’s still an absolutely fantastic midfielder when not asked to do an impossible job. By some distance our best CM.

 

[yeaherino]

I would be more concerned about his positioning. Seeing Ugarte plugging gaps all over the pitch has me more and more conviced that a big factor in our wide open midfield under ETH was inexperience from Mainoo in terms of positioning himself when not in possession. On the plus side, this is likely 100% down to inexperience. So will get better and better the more he plays.

And poor coaching. I mean we were so poor generally under EtH. Mainoo just on talent shone bright, he got game. He also did well at Euros and looked fairly composed for the occasion.

 

[yeaherino]

Like feck he is. He’s still an absolutely fantastic midfielder when not asked to do an impossible job. By some distance our best CM.

The fact that he gets ragged on for being a past it defensive midfielders shows the absolute idiocracy of some on this board. He is levels beyond pretty much anyone on the team in terms of his resume. Despite this defensive tag from the media, who also apparently didn't watch him play all those years for Real or Brazil, he's a brilliant all arounder who has a level of joga bonito about him when he plays, in addition to a smile we all wish Ronaldinho had. He has looked better since EtH left, the space between midfield and defense was absolutely ridiculous it doesn't matter if he had the legs he had in 2014, he's not faster than a 40 yard pass straight through the middle of the field which we somehow allowed time and time and time again and it was because there was always space there.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

Which has been much less of an issue when he's partnered with Ugarte. I like Ruud but I think it's more likely that this change in personnel has closed down those gaps in midfield than a radical overhaul of our tactical approach. A tactical approach he was involved in throughout the season.

Sure, you play a double pivot with another ball chaser and aren't asked to press in some lunatic structure and everything is more shored up.

 

[Trex]

Sure, you play a double pivot with another ball chaser and aren't asked to press in some lunatic structure and everything is more shored up.

There's an actual difference in the way Ruud and ETh set up the team. ETH usually played a DM and a 10, with an 8 kind of playing largely off the ball in advanced areas. The role he earmarked Mount for and used Mainoo in as well. This was supposed to be a box midfield with a fulllback moving centrally.
Ruud sort of swapped the full back and 8 role. If you look at the last game Maz was playing quite high up and Dalot deeper.
Ugarte and Casemiro formed a central duo that stayed central and made us difficult to play against. It's a slight shift tactically but it worked in keeping us compact.

 

[TsuWave]

I would be more concerned about his positioning. Seeing Ugarte plugging gaps all over the pitch has me more and more conviced that a big factor in our wide open midfield under ETH was inexperience from Mainoo in terms of positioning himself when not in possession. On the plus side, this is likely 100% down to inexperience. So will get better and better the more he plays.

That gap in our midfield under Ten Hag existed before Kobbie became a regular, as well as when he wasn’t in the team.

 

[Rozay]

He'll rotate in but long term I can see him really making his claim as one of the 2 #10's. In Amorims system it really seems like those 2 need to be very press resistant and good in small spaces.

Bruno will almost certainly be one of them I imagine. A formation of Bruno and Mainoo behind a striker doesn’t sound ideal to me. One of them, perhaps, but I wouldn’t go with both. I don’t think Mainoo is THAT forward thinking that he should be playing off a striker per se.

 

[Rojofiam]

He's so good...but I want all of him, Yoro, and Garnacho to be rested for periods throughout the season. I don't want them to get burnt out at such a young age.

 

[Rozay]

This is a hilariously weird way to frame things. Casemiro has performed in a few games against poor opposition where we’ve clearly had a new manager bounce. I personally don’t see him performing beyond decent for the rest of the season once the dust settles and we face stiffer tests. There’s no need for an alternate reality - we have the one where he’s been hapless for the last year. Glad he’s an improved a bit but I’m hoping to see Mainoo start ahead of him soon.

Players who are new to English football are often not locked in as key starters. I’d be happy to see him play so well to make that the case but it’s usually not. So again, I wouldn’t wait a bit before expecting him to perform every week as he did vs Leicester.

19 year olds are not normally locked in as key starters either. And Ugarte is just one of a number of players we’ve brought to the country over the years in our team, all who have been regular starters if that is what they were signed to do. In our first XI, Onana, De Ligt, Martinez, Mazraoui, Casemiro, Bruno have literally all come to the country and been regular starters so can’t really ask for more evidence to the contrary.

As for Casemiro, I don’t think there’s anything hilarious or weird about my take at all. He’s been a top player for far more games in his entire career than he’s played poorly, including the one he played the other day. There’s nothing at all to suggest that you have some clear evidence that he can no longer play at a top level. Your sample is way smaller than mine so I don’t see why we need to simply assume it as what his norm is, and now suddenly Casemiro playing well is some sort of anomaly. Perhaps I was ‘not fooled’ by a some poor performances last season and the start of this that he was finished as a top player and expected him to return to form, which he is again showing.

 

[Raven]

I dunno what you mean by suicide ball but I do remember all the moaning about too many gaps in midfield. Hence I'm bringing up the possibility that a factor in this might be our reliance on a very young, inexperienced CM whose out of possession positioning might not (yet) be up to scratch. The guy you agree has things to learn. I'm not actually sure what you're disagreeing with here?

Suicide ball is the way we played last year when we were conceding 20+ shots per game because we were playing a 1 man midfield. As I've already pointed out to you, as have several others, our terrible performances came both whilst he was in the team and when he wasn't. Performance levels were independent of the players because the formation and instructions were mental.

 

[Red00012]

Is he due back for the Ipswich game?

 

[red_de_pologne]

Is he due back for the Ipswich game?

available, not necessarily 100% ready

 

[Rozay]

And for what it’s worth, I don’t agree with this notion that he’s been poor this season. I think Mainoo was playing well. He’s a fantastic midfield prospect. He just has strengths and weaknesses, and I think the right system will accentuate some and hide others.

I wouldn’t say Pedri is best suited to playing a box to box double picot role either, whereas Joao Neves or Gavi would be a better fit. No slight on Mainoo. I am keen to see Amorim’s plan, ultimately, as we want to get him in the team in a way that shows his best work as we develop this team. Personally, I’m not a fan of this wing back system anyway and hope it’s not our new model in the long term.

 

[bosnian_red]

Bruno will almost certainly be one of them I imagine. A formation of Bruno and Mainoo behind a striker doesn’t sound ideal to me. One of them, perhaps, but I wouldn’t go with both. I don’t think Mainoo is THAT forward thinking that he should be playing off a striker per se.

Was thinking more of a situation where Bruno goes at CM next to Ugarte, and then Mainoo is the left attacking mid with probably Amad the right attacking mid. That way Bruno can use his passing range while Mainoo can be used in the tight spaces to link up and his close dribbling that we've often seen from him in that area.

Not that it'd be a regular thing. But I could see it working quite nicely, in possession at least.

 

[Bebe]

He's an excellent footballer and makes a decent 8, but I think his strengths would be best used higher up the pitch.

 

[Withnail]

Was thinking more of a situation where Bruno goes at CM next to Ugarte, and then Mainoo is the left attacking mid with probably Amad the right attacking mid. That way Bruno can use his passing range while Mainoo can be used in the tight spaces to link up and his close dribbling that we've often seen from him in that area.

Not that it'd be a regular thing. But I could see it working quite nicely, in possession at least.

I think that would be a mistake.

We've seen in the last run of games that we need Bruno closer to goal. We just don't score goals when he's further back.

It doesn't make much sense to me to have him behind Mainoo.

 

[Grande]

Suicide ball is the way we played last year when we were conceding 20+ shots per game because we were playing a 1 man midfield. As I've already pointed out to you, as have several others, our terrible performances came both whilst he was in the team and when he wasn't. Performance levels were independent of the players because the formation and instructions were mental.

I think, without disputing that we were too open last season and that we had obvious issues in tighting up midfield in the majority if games, that your argumentation here is too simplistic to make use of.

After all, the truth is also that we played quite a lot of games under Ten Hag with more defensive control as well. Many of these were in the season Mainoo didn’t play. Some of them had tactics more similar to what we now saw under Van Nistelrooy, with more compressed team, fewer comitted forward in the high press, and a more conservative pivot.

Also, most of us have really only seen Mainoo play magnificent football under two managers, both much maligned, incidentally. If they have exposed him, they are also the ones who has allowed him to shine. To the degree were many think of him as one of the worlds most promising teenagers.

The argumant that Ten Hag was a lunatic and nothing from his reign can tell you about a players capabilities, simplify things as to be completely black and white, and obviously wrong too.

Mainoo is my favorite United player atm personally, yet I eon’t be surprised if he will have a few seasons in and out of the first eleven now. He has enormous potential, but it has to be eked out, and he has skills already top notch, but is inexperienced in how to make the most of them. His weaknesses will tend to leave a team exposed while he learns, defensive awareness and positioning are two of them for me, foresight and in gameplay and hunger for dictating things two other things to develop.

Garnacho is in a similar position, whereas Mainoo has better allround technique, overview and strength, Garnacho has a seemingly immense hunger and confidence to me will ensure that he will develop his game one way or another.

 

[Yagami]

Doubt it. I’m not fooled by Casemiro’s recent displays. He’s still way past it and Ugarte is a newbie in English football. We need Mainoo back.

This is a hilariously weird way to frame things. Casemiro has performed in a few games against poor opposition where we’ve clearly had a new manager bounce. I personally don’t see him performing beyond decent for the rest of the season once the dust settles and we face stiffer tests. There’s no need for an alternate reality - we have the one where he’s been hapless for the last year. Glad he’s an improved a bit but I’m hoping to see Mainoo start ahead of him soon.

Players who are new to English football are often not locked in as key starters. I’d be happy to see him play so well to make that the case but it’s usually not. So again, I wouldn’t wait a bit before expecting him to perform every week as he did vs Leicester.

Agreed.

Our midfield is still pretty bad. We did okay under Ruud against some poor teams and Chelsea. Mainoo is still our best midfielder and should start when fit.

 

[Isotope]

Mainoo doesn’t have superior mobility to Casemiro, and Casemiro can play box to box just fine. I’d back him presently to outscore and out-create Mainoo from a CM position over a season, in addition to a good defensive contribution.

Mainoo is the best CM we have at linking play I think, and also ball-carrying. In my personal ideal world, I’d like to see him playing with Casemiro and Ugarte in a trio. In a double-pivot, I have long voiced concerns about his ability against the ball. He has very low running power, and frankly, if Amorim is to simply replicate his Sporting set up here, I don’t see a natural fit for him. I wouldn’t say he’s a player to play in a hard running two-man midfield screen, and while I have always seen him as a more advanced midfielder, I’m not sure he’s a ‘just off the striker’ player either. I think an advanced CM role is what suits him best, but in the deeper two, I think he may struggle to keep up a bit. At least for now, perhaps as he gets older he will become a better runner.

Agreed. For now, I see his attributes should have him a bit further up, not at the base.
He doesn't have the creativity yet as a 10, but his link up play and skill are very decent. Also, every time he has the ball around the penalty edge, I expect something exciting happen.

I wouldn't be surprised if his future is a deeper 10 in Amorim's.

 

[Ceteris]

I think Mainoo is the classic case of a good player who needs to find out where he fits in our team.

He can't sit solely as a DM like Ugarte or Casemiro.

He is very attacking but not creative enough to play ahead of Bruno

He hasn't got the pace or legs for a box to box midfielder.

But the guy who gets paid the big bucks to coach the team will decide who plays based on training and system.

 

[CM]

I would be more concerned about his positioning. Seeing Ugarte plugging gaps all over the pitch has me more and more conviced that a big factor in our wide open midfield under ETH was inexperience from Mainoo in terms of positioning himself when not in possession. On the plus side, this is likely 100% down to inexperience. So will get better and better the more he plays.

Those gaps existed with or without Mainoo in the team and were a huge oversight in Ten Hag's tactics. It's the same reason why the introduction of even the most basic midfield structure under Ruud van Nistelrooy saw us tighten up and look a lot more robust in midfield.

Obviously Mainoo is a more expansive player than Ugarte or Casemiro but there are plenty of teams who don't require two sitting midfielders to maintain balance in their midfield. Ten Hag either failed to understand or didn't care enough to provide us with any structure in midfield and it produced disastrous results. His 'system' (if you can even call it that) exacerbated the flaws of the team and didn't provide any obvious benefits. I feel pretty confident we won't see those issues arising again, or certainly not to those extremes, unless we're unlucky enough to find ourselves with another coach as self-indulgent and tactically naive as Ten Hag.

 

[sherrinford]

And for what it’s worth, I don’t agree with this notion that he’s been poor this season. I think Mainoo was playing well. He’s a fantastic midfield prospect. He just has strengths and weaknesses, and I think the right system will accentuate some and hide others.

I wouldn’t say Pedri is best suited to playing a box to box double picot role either, whereas Joao Neves or Gavi would be a better fit. No slight on Mainoo. I am keen to see Amorim’s plan, ultimately, as we want to get him in the team in a way that shows his best work as we develop this team. Personally, I’m not a fan of this wing back system anyway and hope it’s not our new model in the long term.

Mainoo certainly has areas he excels in, as every player does, but the weaker elements of his game are not particularly glaring. He is more of a complete, rather than limited, player, who is in no way a liability in any facet of his play.

Pedri put in the best display I've seen from him in a long time, and better than anything I can recall seeing from Gavi, against Bayern a few weeks back playing in exactly that role.

Vitinha, Fabian Ruiz, Gundogan, Kovacic, Kroos, Thiago, Verratti, Dembele, Sahin, Pizarro, Fabregas, Veron, Scholes and Wilshere are other examples past and present - on the whole, these players are not dissimilar to Mainoo physically and defensively.

Last season there was a noticeable difference between Mainoo and Casemiro in the holding midfield role - the former was both much more able physically and much more responsible defensively. The latter cannot be a more suitable option in a box to box midfield two.