[criticalanalysis]

Nobody has ever said any one player is the answer. It's obviously a team effort. However, one player coming in who has strengths in those areas will obviously improve the bottom level, the average, and the ceiling of the entire team's ability to control things (all else being equal). They will make themselves available to pass to which makes it easier for the teammates, they can be trusted to receive the ball under pressure, and they can find the right passes themselves. It all has a knock-on effect.

Likewise, one player (especially in midfield) who has huge weaknesses at some of those basics of contributing to possession and tempo, has a negative knock-on effect on the entire team. It effectively makes it harder for other players to do their job, to deal with opposition press, for the team as a whole to find the right passes and control the tempo.

There is no one player who is at fault for our issues, just like there is no one player who will solve them. But some players are more at fault than others, just like some players could improve us more than others. It's too early to say for sure, but the early signs are that Mainoo will help us quite a bit.

The poster isn't really wanting to discuss with you on level terms. Their agenda is quite clear.

We literally had people in this thread saying our season depends on Mainoo! When it really doesn't, it depends on having a functional Midfield, or at least the players available to allow that to happen, ie a fully fit back four.

You need to stop moving the goalposts.

McTominay being shite on and off the ball in his individual performance/contributions can exist as one criticism in a vacuum outside of all the other irrelevant comments.

Again, it seems your main point is not 'look at the Cafe making dumb comments and placing false hope' but more 'don't blame my boy McT'. It reeked with your first post, which started all of this.

 

[Captmfla]

Mainoo is just keeping things simple doing simple passes and running hard. He also tackles a lot which is what Bruno seldom does. He's a breath of fresh air but unfortunately, he does not have enough skills to stamp his authority on the field. That's why united got overrun by Liverpool but at least still pull off a draw.

 

[Gordon S]

Mainoo is just keeping things simple doing simple passes and running hard. He also tackles a lot which is what Bruno seldom does. He's a breath of fresh air but unfortunately, he does not have enough skills to stamp his authority on the field. That's why united got overrun by Liverpool but at least still pull off a draw.

He seems to be able to do the more sexy stuff as well imo. That pass to Garnacho was down to his composure and ability to scan the pitch. It was almost Carrickesque, just a touch short. We desperately need this ability deeper in the pitch. Mainoo could very well grow into that dude. Sounds more like you are describing a Fred or Scott McT here.

 

[Ekeke]

Mainoo is just keeping things simple doing simple passes and running hard. He also tackles a lot which is what Bruno seldom does. He's a breath of fresh air but unfortunately, he does not have enough skills to stamp his authority on the field. That's why united got overrun by Liverpool but at least still pull off a draw.

He's 18

Scholes wasnt commanding the midfield at 18 against Liverpool

 

[STYLOISRED]

It's actually ridiculous when I see such critisms of Mainoo. If an 18 year old deep lying playmaker could tackle and be defensively aware be good at evading pressure AND also stamp his authority and dictate play against Liverpool at Anfield he would be one of the most talked about youngsters in world football. The only midfielder to come close to such a performance in recent years is Camavinga against PSG and he considered one of the very best deep midfield talents of the last decade.

 

[macheda14]

He's 18

Scholes wasnt commanding the midfield at 18 against Liverpool

Yeh but Scholes was a number 10/second striker when he was younger

 

[Powderfinger]

Mainoo is just keeping things simple doing simple passes and running hard. He also tackles a lot which is what Bruno seldom does. He's a breath of fresh air but unfortunately, he does not have enough skills to stamp his authority on the field. That's why united got overrun by Liverpool but at least still pull off a draw.

Prime Xavi wasn't going to keep United from getting overrun in that match. One player can only do so much.

Mainoo looks like a gem to me. Impossible to predict how a midfielder will develop from 18 but not hard to see that he has a lot of natural ability and should be a player United are looking to build around going forward.

 

[Oranges038]

He's 18

Scholes wasnt commanding the midfield at 18 against Liverpool

He didn't play until he was nearly 20 either.


The problem with Mainoo is quite simple as I see it.

Man Utd have been starved of a midfielder who is very good at all the basics of being a midfielder. A kid comes along and shows a bit of promise and everyone gets giddy. Some people have heard good things and maybe expected more, most can see him for what he is, a young kid with bags of potential. Others are idiots and inclined to view his performances from the pont of view of what would be expected from a more experienced player.

He's a good young player who needs times to develop, no point in writing him off or getting over excited just yet.

 

[Jeppers7]

He seems to be able to do the more sexy stuff as well imo. That pass to Garnacho was down to his composure and ability to scan the pitch. It was almost Carrickesque, just a touch short. We desperately need this ability deeper in the pitch. Mainoo could very well grow into that dude. Sounds more like you are describing a Fred or Scott McT here.

I don’t recall Carrick doing that type of pass on the regular. He ticked things over. You might find some examples but it’s not like with Scholes where those passes were per game.

 

[Ekeke]

Yeh but Scholes was a number 10/second striker when he was younger

Right. So he didnt even look like he'd be a commanding midfield presence and then he turned out to be one for us. So its pretty stupid to think that an 18 year old who isnt a commanding midfield presence against one of our biggest rivals in a really tough game will never have enough skills to "stamp authority on the game" and will only keep it simple. He's a few games into his first team career after being out with injury, playing in a role that not many young players get much of a chance as deepest midfielder as usually its left to someone a bit more mature and experienced

 

[Ekeke]

He didn't play until he was nearly 20 either.


The problem with Mainoo is quite simple as I see it.

Man Utd have been starved of a midfielder who is very good at all the basics of being a midfielder. A kid comes along and shows a bit of promise and everyone gets giddy. Some people have heard good things and maybe expected more, most can see him for what he is, a young kid with bags of potential. Others are idiots and inclined to view his performances from the pont of view of what would be expected from a more experienced player.

He's a good young player who needs times to develop, no point in writing him off or getting over excited just yet.

I dont think there are any problems with Mainoo. He's done very well and we've seen that he has even more to offer in preseason and at previous levels. He's in a bit of a harder situation because he doesnt have more experienced and older players next to him playing well and helping him learn on the job. For example if Casemiro was fit and playing like last season.

I think the only midfielder his age or younger thats better is Zaire-Emery at PSG and it must be a lot easier to play for them right now than us. I think Miley at Newcastle is also doing just as well but has played more and both PSG and Newcastle play 3 in midfield so they both have 2 other players close to them in midfield to help cover the work. Whereas Mainoo has McTom and or Amrabat and I think both teams have better players for a young player to be linking up with especially in a midfield 3 than we do for Mainoo right now.

There are some problems with posters but thats always been the case

 

[Oranges038]

I dont think there are any problems with Mainoo. He's done very well and we've seen that he has even more to offer in preseason and at previous levels. He's in a bit of a harder situation because he doesnt have more experienced and older players next to him playing well and helping him learn on the job. For example if Casemiro was fit and playing like last season.

There are some problems with posters but thats always been the case

That's kind of what I was getting at. He's not a problem, far from it, it's peoples perceptions of what they expect form him as a player how they are judging his performances.

Busquets and Cesc are probably the only 2 players I can remember who've stepped into midfield at a top club and bossed it from day 1.
Nobody should be expecting that from Mainoo.

 

[Ekeke]

That's kind of what I was getting at. He's not a problem, far from it, it's peoples perceptions of what they expect form him as a player how they are judging his performances.

Busquets and Cesc are probably the only 2 players I can remember who've stepped into midfield at a top club and bossed it from day 1.
Nobody should be expecting that from Mainoo.

Yeah exactly. It happens occasionally but most of the time good or even great midfielders are not doing that at 18 years old.

 

[bosnian_red]

Mainoo is just keeping things simple doing simple passes and running hard. He also tackles a lot which is what Bruno seldom does. He's a breath of fresh air but unfortunately, he does not have enough skills to stamp his authority on the field. That's why united got overrun by Liverpool but at least still pull off a draw.

Thinking that what he does in midfield is "keeping things simple" is exactly why England have year after year failed to develop the right type of midfielder and why Scholes was such an exception, and why he was used incorrectly for the National Team.

Being press resistant, having a consistently high technique level, knowing when and where to move and roam in midfield and naturally knowing where the opposing players are around you, having a very high level of progressive passing ability... Mainoo is a rare talent exactly because he does the things that you think are just keeping it easy, when 99% of midfielders of any age are incapable of playing that deep playmaker role in that way.

 

[Gordon S]

I don’t recall Carrick doing that type of pass on the regular. He ticked things over. You might find some examples but it’s not like with Scholes where those passes were per game.

He wasn`t the most adventurous passer, but his ability to play the pass with correct timing and weight was chefs kiss more often then not, imo.

 

[Berbasbullet]

I don’t recall Carrick doing that type of pass on the regular. He ticked things over. You might find some examples but it’s not like with Scholes where those passes were per game.

Neh, Carrick absolutely could do that pass regularly.

 

[Oranges038]

Neh, Carrick absolutely could do that pass regularly.

Some people obviously never paid much attention to Carrick. He was an excellent passer.

 

[chb23]

Carrick has a better pass than anyone currently in our team at the moment. Then scholes himself was much better than Carrick.

Shows how far we've fallen.

 

[DevTheRed]

Some people obviously never paid much attention to Carrick. He was an excellent passer.

One of the most underrated players of his generation.. god I miss watching him

 

[Oranges038]

One of the most underrated players of his generation.. god I miss watching him

He had such a calmness in midfield, anticipation just to be in the right place and vision and quality in his passing.

Incredibly under rated player.

 

[GiveItToGi...nowait]

I don’t recall Carrick doing that type of pass on the regular. He ticked things over. You might find some examples but it’s not like with Scholes where those passes were per game.

The criminal under rating of Michael Carrick continues.

 

[Alemar]

Then scholes himself was much better than Carrick.

From attacking perspective - without a doubt, and by far. But defensively Carrick was better.

 

[Galactic]

Some people obviously never paid much attention to Carrick. He was an excellent passer.

Genius!

But I doubt he’ll get that luxury of time and space to ping those long balls around anymore these days.

 

[Champ]

Some people obviously never paid much attention to Carrick. He was an excellent passer.

One of my favorite United players is Carrick.

A great passer of the ball and someone who could cover the spaces so well defensively.
Composed on the ball, he was always a step ahead of the game and could pick passes through the lines for absolute fun.

 

[NotoriousISSY]

I don’t recall Carrick doing that type of pass on the regular. He ticked things over. You might find some examples but it’s not like with Scholes where those passes were per game.

Michael Carrick’s signature pass was quite literally opening his body after one touch and slotting it into an attackers feet and through the lines.

It’s precisely why he is so universally appreciated by his teammates, and I’d imagine more so by the likes of Berbatov and van Persie who could trap the ball and link up with their fellow attacking players within the next two touches with zero fecking about.

The absolute basics of football executed so perfectly.

Scholes and Carrick together were an absolute joke, between them they had limitations with their athleticism, but they made up for it with brains and simplicity. It’s only when it’s taken away from you and downgraded to what we have now that you realise how good they were.

 

[Jeppers7]

Michael Carrick’s signature pass was quite literally opening his body after one touch and slotting it into an attackers feet and through the lines.

It’s precisely why he is so universally appreciated by his teammates, and I’d imagine more so by the likes of Berbatov and van Persie who could trap the ball and link up with their fellow attacking players within the next two touches with zero fecking about.

The absolute basics of football executed so perfectly.

Scholes and Carrick together were an absolute joke, between them they had limitations with their athleticism, but they made up for it with brains and simplicity. It’s only when it’s taken away from you and downgraded to what we have now that you realise how good they were.

Scholes was a joke. Carrick was a good player, but his signature was not a defence splitting pass. He was capable of them, so was Roy Keane, but it wasnt his signature.

He’s massively overrated by United fans since he retired. He was a good player though but he wasn’t a Scholes or KDB or a chance creator like Bruno. All of that is fine, it might turn out that Mainoo’s signature pass is t like the one to Garnacho….he still did it.

 

[Bobski]

People are not talking about defense splitting passes, putting people clean through, which incidentally Scholes did much less than some make out, Giggs was in the positions to make those type of passes more regularly.

What Carrick did exceptionally well was pick the ball up deep and sidefoot whip, off either foot, the ball through the midfield lines to the strikers feet, early and before defensive shapes were set. He didn't have the level of ping to the wing that Scholes had, but playing on the ground through the middle, not many better.

 

[Jeppers7]

People are not talking about defense splitting passes, putting people clean through, which incidentally Scholes did much less than some make out, Giggs was in the positions to make those type of passes more regularly.

What Carrick did exceptionally well was pick the ball up deep and sidefoot whip, off either foot, the ball through the midfield lines to the strikers feet, early and before defensive shapes were set. He didn't have the level of ping to the wing that Scholes had, but playing on the ground through the middle, not many better.

The post I replied to literally equated Mainoos pass as Carrickesque and while he may have pulled some of those off it wasn’t ‘esque’

Also Scholes played the right pass at the right time. That was the genius of him. He was capable of every pass. He just didn’t play them when they weren’t on like Bruno for example.

 

[Bobski]

The post I replied to literally equated Mainoos pass as Carrickesque and while he may have pulled some of those off it wasn’t ‘esque’

Also Scholes played the right pass at the right time. That was the genius of him. He was capable of every pass. He just didn’t play them when they weren’t on like Bruno for example.

It was a pass very reminiscent of Carricks preferred style, the sidefoot whip along the ground. Scholes preferred to strike through the ball, used the curled pass much less regularly. Scholes was the better overall passer of course but there were certain passes that Carricks style was more suitable for.

Scholes never really being a set piece option is in part due to that preference, struck the ball beautifully cleanly but on corners and free kicks you need to be able produce spin and ball movement that wasn't his thing.

 

[flameinthesun]

I don’t recall Carrick doing that type of pass on the regular. He ticked things over. You might find some examples but it’s not like with Scholes where those passes were per game.

....look up Carrick's assist to Javier Hernandez just for 1 example of how wrong you are. Carrick was a great passer, he played more conservatively than Scholes but he had every kind of pass in his locker.

 

[Jeppers7]

It was a pass very reminiscent of Carricks preferred style, the sidefoot whip along the ground. Scholes preferred to strike through the ball, used the curled pass much less regularly. Scholes was the better overall passer of course but there were certain passes that Carricks style was more suitable for.

It was more Veron. Definitely not what Carrick did on the regular. But yeah he could do it. So could Keane

 

[Jeppers7]

....look up Carrick's assist to Javier Hernandez just for 1 example of how wrong you are. Carrick was a great passer, he played more conservatively than Scholes but he had every kind of pass in his locker.

Can you read?

 

[Bobski]

It was more Veron. Definitely not what Carrick did on the regular. But yeah he could do it. So could Keane

And also, somewhat surprisingly when watching old highlights, Nicky Butt. He on rewatch is so much a better passer than I remembered, very positive and like Carrick loved the whipped early pass to the feet of the strikers. More erratic than the others but 22/23 yo Butt would probably be our Captain and best player.

 

[dutchred]

This is about Mainoo. Can we keep it on topic. Of course we can compare him to others, but then it should be about him not the others

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

This is about Mainoo. Can we keep it on topic. Of course we can compare him to others, but then it should be about him not the others

So this ISN’T the Carrick thread?!

 

[pascell]

Who that bothered who the pass was more reminiscent of? It was a great pass, just like others have made, no idea why anyone would want to one up someone over who the pass was more reminiscent of.

Let's just sit back and enjoy watching Mainoo develop into his own player.

 

[NotoriousISSY]

Scholes was a joke. Carrick was a good player, but his signature was not a defence splitting pass. He was capable of them, so was Roy Keane, but it wasnt his signature.

He’s massively overrated by United fans since he retired. He was a good player though but he wasn’t a Scholes or KDB or a chance creator like Bruno. All of that is fine, it might turn out that Mainoo’s signature pass is t like the one to Garnacho….he still did it.

That’s your opinion about him being overrated, but you’re splitting hairs about his skill set.

Splitting a defence no, and in his position he shouldn’t have been the guy doing that (although there are plenty of highlights showing some amazing chances created in less than two touches from him). Playing between the lines is an art in itself, an attribute missing from pretty much the entire midfield cohort now.

It was no coincidence that the revitalised team Sir Alex built slowly between 2003 and 2006 came of age once Carrick came in adding something entirely different to Scholes who himself was adjusting to a more reigned in role deeper on the pitch.

But this is completely derailing the thread.

On Mainoo, he’s clearly being moulded into the FDJ mould. Defensively sound, good at carrying the ball and then playing the most appropriate pass.

 

[Jeppers7]

That’s your opinion about him being overrated, but you’re splitting hairs about his skill set.

Splitting a defence no, and in his position he shouldn’t have been the guy doing that (although there are plenty of highlights showing some amazing chances created in less than two touches from him). Playing between the lines is an art in itself, an attribute missing from pretty much the entire midfield cohort now.

It was no coincidence that the revitalised team Sir Alex built slowly between 2003 and 2006 came of age once Carrick came in adding something entirely different to Scholes who himself was adjusting to a more reigned in role deeper on the pitch.

But this is completely derailing the thread.

On Mainoo, he’s clearly being moulded into the FDJ mould. Defensively sound, good at carrying the ball and then playing the most appropriate pass.

Or came of age when we added genuine world class Vidic, Evra to the back four and Ronaldo became the best player in the world. You’ve just made the point I made about it not being “Carrickesque” ….yes it is derailing the thread though, these days if you’re not saying Carrick was better than Pirlo then there’s some massive outrage. When he actually played for us their was regular criticism and rightly so bar 2013.

On Mainoo, he just looks such a special talent, the composure that Carrick had to play short and longer at the right times and be in the right place but also the ability to play under pressure and to play on the turn. Also to go in for a tackle. Will be very interesting to watch his development.

 

[The Substitute]

This kid is special, but I have to laugh at the comments and YouTube fan channels saying he should play as the single pivot instead of Amrabat.

That's a huge mistake imo, he is not quick or physical enough yet, and we saw that in 1v1 situations against Newcastle. So let's try not to destroy his confidence please!

 

[Swiss_Red89]

Absent trom todays squad? Too bad. Was really looking forward to see him play again.