Andycoleno9
matchday malcontent
Plug and play midfielder.
Despite the shocking season we've had we've arguably banged in the three best goals of this season. Garnacho's bicycle kick, Rashford's rocket against City and Kobbie's yesterday.
Despite the shocking season we've had we've arguably banged in the three best goals of this season. Garnacho's bicycle kick, Rashford's rocket against City and Kobbie's yesterday.
You realise this is a case against, not for, right?
The one from three you've listed, with considerably less games being the only not effectively broken before 30.
His tally for the season will conclude at the Euros. The intensity of those minutes is also an important factor.Kobbie only has 20 games so far. Less than half of those guys
I can almost guaranteed that he’ll be peripheral on this incoming EuroHis tally for the season will conclude at the Euros. The intensity of those minutes is also an important factor.
If you have someone as good as Mainoo on the ball, you'd want him to have the ball as much as possible, ie: play him in a possession based systemIt's a meaningless point though. Good technique and good decision making in tight spaces is basically what you'd want to see from any central midfielder, in any team. I find the constant Pep love in on here a bit nauseating, to be honest. You'd swear the cnut had invented football. "Look at this midfielder! He is good at midfield stuff! He's wasted unless he plays for Pep!!!"
I can almost guaranteed that he’ll be peripheral on this incoming Euro
I think DM will end up being his main role because of how excellent he is as the first receiver against the press, the qualities he displays in the role on the ball are almost impossible to coach a less talented player. You can also note how good he is at defending cutbacks, defensive headers etc so even if he isn't physically dominant to be a Keanesque enforcer he has other defensive skills that come naturally to him.There's a real pick your poison to his deployment until he matures athletically:
DM/Deep - Guarantees collection off backline and transition from 1st phase (receipt) to 2nd phase (progression) for the team. Positionally sound and aware of passing lanes for easy interceptions and rapid recycling of the ball. Can play out more of the game from this position because it asks for a lot less in terms of sprinting and exposes his body to less lung-busting runs.
Cons: If Mainoo is the first receiver, the problem immediately becomes the second who has little capacity to act as a conduit in their own right and either control the ball so those behind it can begin their overlapping sequences, or progress it optimally. We have a massive void at actual CM if Mainoo doesn't play there.
Another con at DM is Mainoo can be bullied by grown men; isolate, trap and run him down and the gauntlet he has to play through carries a larger element of risk than if he were a robust and matured athlete. Newcastle away gave a clear blueprint on how to really tax him at #6.
Overall, still clearly his best position at the moment, affording more time and touches on the ball and ability to dictate the game on his own terms and rhythm.
CM/box-to-box - his preordained position, imo, but one that is by far the most taxing physically and thus the one that exposes his youth the most in terms of physical capability and especially his engine/stamina. With him as secondary receiver, he/we are reliant on someone else at DM actually getting the ball up to him. This is a massive issue that comprises the whole team as we have nobody who can do so accurately, succinctly and consistently; if Mainoo's not playing the role. This means the CM has to drop deeper to help out, thus compromising their own legs and making their own dedicated job more physically taxing. In CM, once the ball gets to feet, a web of passing intricacies is supposed to be weaved... in our case, the CM is instructed to bomb on and neglect accepted positional duties, namely being there... so we're seeing him have a lot less of the ball and touches in proper CM zones, which, funnily enough, are the centre of midfield...
The way we use the CM, it becomes a peripheral role rather than a pivotal one. The difference in how he played it for England and what happens with us is night and day, but still, he's by far our best conduit, to the point it's a concern, as it's him or nothing, nothing constructive anyway.
Cons: stamina, engine, physical demands of the role in our set up (making so many key sprints of that distance should happen in 90min not a half), having nobody in midfield to link up with cohesively. CM is a very lonely and isolated position with what we do - a link man can't do his job with so few opportunities and options. This is the buzzy bee, annoying as feck to pick up role for the opposition, but it is not expressed as so here and see Mainoo looking like an island more often than not; sporadically involved but not as much as a CM should be as this is where data points should be through the roof, but his actual ability to affect the game is marginalised with what we do.
AM/higher up the pitch: Mainoo is showing too much in the final third to deny he could become a fixture in the role if a manager took a fancy to him there. He exhibits the qualities you look for in an AM when push comes to shove. Unlike natural AM's he is not overflowing with expression or expression at the cost of all else - he doesn't have the tunnel vision to state he is a perma-maestro who simply must affect the play with his every action, but what he consistently shows is the composure, vision and execution to not only play one and two touch with ease in the final third, but exactly when to pull the trigger on the decisive action.
A measure of good AM play is how often the player gets to execute what they want completely uncontested. In the kerfuffle, only the final action is really processed in the moment, but upon replay all the trickery and nuance to how that last action came about is revealed, and this is where the inner workings of the mind of an AM tend to be revealed. Cunning actions and movements stacked on other cunning actions combined with deft, often sublime technique shows itself and also gives a snapshot of just what is being dealt with.
Mainoo's final action tends to be the rubberstamp on the build up he has knitted together; it is rarely a sole pass or shot, rather an intricate matrix of layered actions that build to a crescendo. What stands out is said final action is clean and uncontested, the disguise or suddenness of it leaving others for dead. It's a mind backed by the technique to execute, or vice-versa, which makes for the foundation of rock-solid attacking midfield play.
The obvious problem with AM play is that others have to get the ball up the pitch in good order for them to smoothly pick up the baton and do their thing. They are reliant on the chain behind them and mightn't see the ball for larger periods of time unless they drop deeper (and out of position) to share the load. In Mainoo's case, it'd look like a player who we know can do so much to aid the build up doing 'nothing' as he waits and waits and waits for his moments to come alive.
In this team, I would have full belief Mainoo could consistently affect games from that position, but from a purist's POV, him being in a position where he almost certainly won't see the ball frequently is a quandary; most AM's are accepted for what they are and aren't really expected to do anything but the basics of CM play, so long as their productivity in their own position remains high, they get a pass and praise for even helping their CM's and DM's; I don't think CM's who go on to be AM's are afforded this privilege. They are expected to remain good to very good as CM's whilst performing their actual duties in their designated position. Someone like Bellingham, for example, will not be given the same pass for being less than in CM compared to an Ødegaard, and I think the same would be said of Kobbie, where him being just an AM would be OK for most fans who associate him with the deeper positions.
Funnily enough, I think Fred could have been a great partner for him.I think DM will end up being his main role because of how excellent he is as the first receiver against the press, the qualities he displays in the role on the ball are almost impossible to coach a less talented player. You can also note how good he is at defending cutbacks, defensive headers etc so even if he isn't physically dominant to be a Keanesque enforcer he has other defensive skills that come naturally to him.
I think to stabilize the midfield we need a Kante like defensive player, who plays box to box but can cover ground quickly to win balls in midfield, Mainoo then takes up the role of midfield sweeper like Carrick was to Fletcher. I think Onana can play the role perfectly.
On his part he has to get a trainer, over the summer, to accelerate his physical development particularly his intensity and stamina.
I think DM will end up being his main role because of how excellent he is as the first receiver against the press, the qualities he displays in the role on the ball are almost impossible to coach a less talented player. You can also note how good he is at defending cutbacks, defensive headers etc so even if he isn't physically dominant to be a Keanesque enforcer he has other defensive skills that come naturally to him.
I think to stabilize the midfield we need a Kante like defensive player, who plays box to box but can cover ground quickly to win balls in midfield, Mainoo then takes up the role of midfield sweeper like Carrick was to Fletcher. I think Onana can play the role perfectly.
On his part he has to get a trainer, over the summer, to accelerate his physical development particularly his intensity and stamina.
IMO, his best position will be as an 8.
If you want a top end inspirational comparison, its Iniesta...that kind of magic footed player who can wiggle out of trouble anywhere on the pitch, hold the ball under pressure, and then help unlock defenses in the narrowest of spaces in the final third.
Beyond his slight physical stature, he really hasn't shown the range and consistency of passing to be a metronomic player or deep lying playmaker at the base of midfield.
Colvale Goan humour. Delhi ncr pollution has polluted ours.Why post this?
Talking of kids.
Manchester United have given nearly three times the amount of minutes (3,637) to teenagers in the Premier League this season than the rest of the Top 6 combined (1,245): MAN UTD (3,637) Man City (698) Aston Villa (360) Liverpool (117) Spurs (56) Arsenal (14)
You should be paid for this sort of breakdownThere's a real pick your poison to his deployment until he matures athletically:
DM/Deep - Guarantees collection off backline and transition from 1st phase (receipt) to 2nd phase (progression) for the team. Positionally sound and aware of passing lanes for easy interceptions and rapid recycling of the ball. Can play out more of the game from this position because it asks for a lot less in terms of sprinting and exposes his body to less lung-busting runs.
Cons: If Mainoo is the first receiver, the problem immediately becomes the second who has little capacity to act as a conduit in their own right and either control the ball so those behind it can begin their overlapping sequences, or progress it optimally. We have a massive void at actual CM if Mainoo doesn't play there.
Another con at DM is Mainoo can be bullied by grown men; isolate, trap and run him down and the gauntlet he has to play through carries a larger element of risk than if he were a robust and matured athlete. Newcastle away gave a clear blueprint on how to really tax him at #6.
Overall, still clearly his best position at the moment, affording more time and touches on the ball and ability to dictate the game on his own terms and rhythm.
CM/box-to-box - his preordained position, imo, but one that is by far the most taxing physically and thus the one that exposes his youth the most in terms of physical capability and especially his engine/stamina. With him as secondary receiver, he/we are reliant on someone else at DM actually getting the ball up to him. This is a massive issue that comprises the whole team as we have nobody who can do so accurately, succinctly and consistently; if Mainoo's not playing the role. This means the CM has to drop deeper to help out, thus compromising their own legs and making their own dedicated job more physically taxing. In CM, once the ball gets to feet, a web of passing intricacies is supposed to be weaved... in our case, the CM is instructed to bomb on and neglect accepted positional duties, namely being there... so we're seeing him have a lot less of the ball and touches in proper CM zones, which, funnily enough, are the centre of midfield...
The way we use the CM, it becomes a peripheral role rather than a pivotal one. The difference in how he played it for England and what happens with us is night and day, but still, he's by far our best conduit, to the point it's a concern, as it's him or nothing, nothing constructive anyway.
Cons: stamina, engine, physical demands of the role in our set up (making so many key sprints of that distance should happen in 90min not a half), having nobody in midfield to link up with cohesively. CM is a very lonely and isolated position with what we do - a link man can't do his job with so few opportunities and options. This is the buzzy bee, annoying as feck to pick up role for the opposition, but it is not expressed as so here and see Mainoo looking like an island more often than not; sporadically involved but not as much as a CM should be as this is where data points should be through the roof, but his actual ability to affect the game is marginalised with what we do.
AM/higher up the pitch: Mainoo is showing too much in the final third to deny he could become a fixture in the role if a manager took a fancy to him there. He exhibits the qualities you look for in an AM when push comes to shove. Unlike natural AM's he is not overflowing with expression or expression at the cost of all else - he doesn't have the tunnel vision to state he is a perma-maestro who simply must affect the play with his every action, but what he consistently shows is the composure, vision and execution to not only play one and two touch with ease in the final third, but exactly when to pull the trigger on the decisive action.
A measure of good AM play is how often the player gets to execute what they want completely uncontested. In the kerfuffle, only the final action is really processed in the moment, but upon replay all the trickery and nuance to how that last action came about is revealed, and this is where the inner workings of the mind of an AM tend to be revealed. Cunning actions and movements stacked on other cunning actions combined with deft, often sublime technique shows itself and also gives a snapshot of just what is being dealt with.
Mainoo's final action tends to be the rubberstamp on the build up he has knitted together; it is rarely a sole pass or shot, rather an intricate matrix of layered actions that build to a crescendo. What stands out is said final action is clean and uncontested, the disguise or suddenness of it leaving others for dead. It's a mind backed by the technique to execute, or vice-versa, which makes for the foundation of rock-solid attacking midfield play.
The obvious problem with AM play is that others have to get the ball up the pitch in good order for them to smoothly pick up the baton and do their thing. They are reliant on the chain behind them and mightn't see the ball for larger periods of time unless they drop deeper (and out of position) to share the load. In Mainoo's case, it'd look like a player who we know can do so much to aid the build up doing 'nothing' as he waits and waits and waits for his moments to come alive.
In this team, I would have full belief Mainoo could consistently affect games from that position, but from a purist's POV, him being in a position where he almost certainly won't see the ball frequently is a quandary; most AM's are accepted for what they are and aren't really expected to do anything but the basics of CM play, so long as their productivity in their own position remains high, they get a pass and praise for even helping their CM's and DM's; I don't think CM's who go on to be AM's are afforded this privilege. They are expected to remain good to very good as CM's whilst performing their actual duties in their designated position. Someone like Bellingham, for example, will not be given the same pass for being less than in CM compared to an Ødegaard, and I think the same would be said of Kobbie, where him being just an AM would be OK for most fans who associate him with the deeper positions.
His performances have kind of tapered off as the season has gone on haven't they, or am imagining it?
That's not to knock him by the way, its not his fault. It just suggests he could be managed better.
I also noticed his drop in ball composure since England call. Hope it was just short time burnt out and he will get back to form soon.I don't think so personally. He's getting more disciplined as he plays and more capable of competing physically. You're just not as impressed by the same passing, dribbling etc. any more as you're more used to it and so are his opponents. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure he can still use a little break as he often seems to run out of steam towards the end of the games but I think he's still steadily improving.
I also noticed his drop in ball composure since England call. Hope it was just short time burnt out and he will get back to form soon.
For 18-19 years old we can't expect him to perform consistently in such large number of matches that he had to play. However if he is to be called up in Euro I think ETH does need to push him to play the remaining matches this season. Otherwise, him not playing in Euro would actually be better in the long run for his long term development
I think he does get burnt out and it get reflected on the pitch too.I think he's getting less time on the ball because the opponents are more wary of him, maybe contributing to the perceived lack of composure?
Thanks for kind words, but lucky scout already got the gig.You should be paid for this sort of breakdown
That was a very well written post.Thanks for kind words, but lucky scout already got the gig.
He probably starts for City
Most have been complaining because he played "too much" this season, even though he's yet a regular starter.
How would he become a starter for City?
You are not wrong but I think it's more to do with the fact that he has been taken off his comfort zone, the deep lying center and is being played as a high 8 where he needs to be more attacking and taking more risk because Casemiro is playing as the 6. If we played a 4-2-3-1 and he was starting moves from deep he would be in his element more.His performances have kind of tapered off as the season has gone on haven't they, or am imagining it?
That's not to knock him by the way, its not his fault. It just suggests he could be managed better.
I saw this previously and intended to reply... and then forgot, d'oh.I think DM will end up being his main role because of how excellent he is as the first receiver against the press, the qualities he displays in the role on the ball are almost impossible to coach a less talented player. You can also note how good he is at defending cutbacks, defensive headers etc so even if he isn't physically dominant to be a Keanesque enforcer he has other defensive skills that come naturally to him.
I think to stabilize the midfield we need a Kante like defensive player, who plays box to box but can cover ground quickly to win balls in midfield, Mainoo then takes up the role of midfield sweeper like Carrick was to Fletcher. I think Onana can play the role perfectly.
On his part he has to get a trainer, over the summer, to accelerate his physical development particularly his intensity and stamina.
Thanks for kind words, but lucky scout already got the gig.
Yes, but does Ten Hag embrace them the same way Klopp does?Talking of kids.
Manchester United have given nearly three times the amount of minutes (3,637) to teenagers in the Premier League this season than the rest of the Top 6 combined (1,245): MAN UTD (3,637) Man City (698) Aston Villa (360) Liverpool (117) Spurs (56) Arsenal (14)
Fabregas and Rooney were done at the top level before 30
I think the physical aspect of Rooney and Mainoo are quite different. Rooney at 17-18 looked already like a 95% grown-up whereas Mainoo looks like a skinny young boy probably still growing for a few more years. I would imagine Mainoo at 23 will look different than now, probably a little taller and bigger, whereas Rooney at 18 was almost the same 5 years later.People cite things like this as a reason to hold young players back but I don’t really get it. Would it somehow make it much better if a player debuts at 21 and retires at 36 as opposed to 16 and is finished by 30? Rooney was finished at the very top at 30, but he was also at the top at 16/18. The mileage is the same.
It's not about debuting. It's about not overplaying them at a time that their body is still developing.People cite things like this as a reason to hold young players back but I don’t really get it. Would it somehow make it much better if a player debuts at 21 and retires at 36 as opposed to 16 and is finished by 30? Rooney was finished at the very top at 30, but he was also at the top at 16/18. The mileage is the same.
I think the physical aspect of Rooney and Mainoo are quite different. Rooney at 17-18 looked already like a 95% grown-up whereas Mainoo looks like a skinny young boy probably still growing for a few more years. I would imagine Mainoo at 23 will look different than now, probably a little taller and bigger, whereas Rooney at 18 was almost the same 5 years later.
It's not about debuting. It's about not overplaying them at a time that their body is still developing.
Over the last five or six years it feels like Barca have had a whole bunch of 'wonderkids' that they bought straight into their starting 11 and played them constantly, only for them all to break down after a couple of years and never be the same again. Pedri is the most obvious example, where he played a ridiculous amount of minutes a few years ago and he's now spent the last three years on the injury table more than he's on the field. A player that looked like he might be the best midfielder of his generation and who knows if he'll ever recover.
Somebody mentioned Ronaldo, but despite missing the first four months of the season Mainoo is on track to play more minutes than Ronaldo did in his first season with us at the same age.