Knee Jerk to Spurs game thread

[roonster09]

I watched every second of the game but missed 7 at the back formation that few are talking about.

2021, people still think formation on paper dictates whether team is attacking or defensive.

 

[NK86]

It’s actually very striking how quiet it is on here tonight. It seems a large proportion of our fan base aren’t happy unless they are miserable. Sad really.

Well done to Ole and the team for shutting them up! I for one thought it was a very balanced and impressive tactical performance, and obviously a great result - especially with the mighty Klopp and Lord Pep both dropping points.

Or you know, people come on to vent here when they see United absolutely in shambles regularly, and also realize how many such false dawns we have seen.

Fans like yourself love to gloat over 1 decent performance. I am not sure of your stance over Ole, however mine's clear and 1-2 decent performances from the team isn't going to change it. Even a broken clock gets to be right twice a day.

 

[NK86]

I watched every second of the game but missed 7 at the back formation that few are talking about.

2021, people still think formation on paper dictates whether team is attacking or defensive.

We clearly went 7 at the back many times in the second half, all absolutely in a straight line. No trying to press, just holding a line of 7 players near our penalty box.

 

[432JuanMata]

Or you know, people come on to vent here when they see United absolutely in shambles regularly, and also realize how many such false dawns we have seen.

Fans like yourself love to gloat over 1 decent performance. I am not sure of your stance over Ole, however mine's clear and 1-2 decent performances from the team isn't going to change it. Even a broken clock gets to be right twice a day.

I find it strange when people do this. Yes I thought we played decent and the result is great but it doesn’t change the fact that this season we have been awful. If we lost today maybe that would help us with in the long run as Ole be most likely sacked but some wanting us to lose should be ashamed.
It is extreme both ways some Ole out posters want us to lose and Ole in posters brag and rub it in on other posters after 1 messily win. Both are wrong

 

[Winrar]

I find it strange when people do this. Yes I thought we played decent and the result is great but it doesn’t change the fact that this season we have been awful. If we lost today maybe that would help us with in the long run as Ole be most likely sacked but some wanting us to lose should be ashamed.
It is extreme both ways some Ole out posters want us to lose and Ole in posters brag and rub it in on other posters after 1 messily win. Both are wrong

I think fans wanting us to lose for Ole to get sacked is really a byproduct of our failed reactionary strategy when it comes to managerial matters.

Truth is we should've been on the hunt for a new manager as soon as things started to look down for us this season, at least as late as at YB, because that was a clear sign that we haven't gotten out of the extremely toxic boom/bust cycle under Ole.

 

[FatTails]

Or you know, people come on to vent here when they see United absolutely in shambles regularly, and also realize how many such false dawns we have seen.

Fans like yourself love to gloat over 1 decent performance. I am not sure of your stance over Ole, however mine's clear and 1-2 decent performances from the team isn't going to change it. Even a broken clock gets to be right twice a day.

Simple concepts are hard for some people. Like wanting United to win every game and being ecstatic when they do, while at the same time thinking the manager is not good enough and we can improve on him.

Apparently you either support the club which automatically means you are behind the manager and never question him, or you’re against the manager which means you’re not a proper supporter and you want United to lose every game.

How do you even talk to people whose brains cannot handle any nuance and want to paint everything black or white?

 

[432JuanMata]

I think fans wanting us to lose for Ole to get sacked is really a byproduct of our failed reactionary strategy when it comes to managerial matters.

Truth is we should've been on the hunt for a new manager as soon as things started to look down for us this season, at least as late as at YB, because that was a clear sign that we haven't gotten out of the extremely toxic boom/bust cycle under Ole.

Ole should of been sacked after Leicester nevermind last week but wanting us to lose is never a option for me.
He is obviously the wrong man to take us further and this result changes nothing but I will never want this club to lose a football match

 

[kouroux]

When was this?

Exactly what I was thinking.

Yeah Fergie dabbled with 352 from time to time but never for any great period of time. I certainly don't remember us having one of our most successful periods employing it.

Probably confused it with when we went with 4-5-1 formation in many tough away games to great results between 2006 and 2009. I don't remember either going with 3 at the back

 

[432JuanMata]

Probably confused it with when we went with 4-5-1 formation in many tough away games to great results between 2006 and 2009. I don't remember either going with 3 at the back

I’m also confused I never remember SAF using 5 at the back

 

[roonster09]

We clearly went 7 at the back many times in the second half, all absolutely in a straight line. No trying to press, just holding a line of 7 players near our penalty box.

That doesn't mean we played 7 at the back. You can always find images of every team with too many defending the box.

Pass map, average position, heat map, touch/pass map shows how we played.

 

[NK86]

That doesn't mean we played 7 at the back. You can always find images of every team with too many defending the box.

Pass map, average position, heat map, touch/pass map shows how we played.

It was not snapshots. It was periods of the game in the second half when we didn't have the ball. I remember it well because I noticed and was surprised how deep we were playing and how everyone was able to maintain that line (clearly worked on it in training). Obviously at 2-0 you can be allowed to be defensive, but it does not take away from the fact that we did go deep with 7-8 at the back at times when Spurs attacked.

Not sure about the maps but it was clear as day that we did go back 7 a few times.

 

[RedBanker]

Or you know, people come on to vent here when they see United absolutely in shambles regularly, and also realize how many such false dawns we have seen.

Fans like yourself love to gloat over 1 decent performance. I am not sure of your stance over Ole, however mine's clear and 1-2 decent performances from the team isn't going to change it. Even a broken clock gets to be right twice a day.

Astutely put. We put in a good game versus a pathetic Spurs and suddenly all is rosy for some. Yes it was a great three points today. But does it help us in the greater scheme of things? Only time will tell if and when our club does the right thing and changes the manager.

 

[roonster09]

It was not snapshots. It was periods of the game in the second half when we didn't have the ball. I remember it well because I noticed and was surprised how deep we were playing and how everyone was able to maintain that line (clearly worked on it in training). Obviously at 2-0 you can be allowed to be defensive, but it does not take away from the fact that we did go deep with 7-8 at the back at times when Spurs attacked.

Not sure about the maps but it was clear as day that we did go back 7 a few times.

Like how we went some random 1-1-6-3 formation when in possession?

When I meant images, I didn't mean out of context images. You will see pieces of play where team commits more men to defend, doesn't mean we played 7 at the back formation. It's all depends on where the ball is and how many attackers are committed which means midfielders have to track the attackers.

Anyways since everyone is ole out, maybe we should just make up random things to have a go at him.

Edit: Just watched the game from 2-0 to 3-0 fast forwarding, McT was on the defensive line only twice in that entire period. One was when Lindelof stepped out so he covered the space. Likewise Maguire stepped up to defend and that's when McT dropped into defensive line.

Apart from that, not once McTominay or Fred played in defensive line. They played ahead of the defense and maintained the shape well. Only time when we had more than 5 in the defensive line was when we defended set pieces.

Also for the first time in months I felt we did really well defensively, maintained shape well and didn't do braindead stuff.

 

[NK86]

Like how we went some random 1-1-6-3 formation when in possession?

When I meant images, I didn't mean out of context images. You will see pieces of play where team commits more men to defend, doesn't mean we played 7 at the back formation. It's all depends on where the ball is and how many attackers are committed which means midfielders have to track the attackers.

Anyways since everyone is ole out, maybe we should just make up random things to have a go at him.

Edit: Just watched the game from 2-0 to 3-0 fast forwarding, McT was on the defensive line only twice in that entire period. One was when Lindelof stepped out so he covered the space. Likewise Maguire stepped up to defend and that's when McT dropped into defensive line.

Apart from that, not once McTominay or Fred played in defensive line. They played ahead of the defense and maintained the shape well. Only time when we had more than 5 in the defensive line was when we defended set pieces.

Also for the first time in months I felt we did really well defensively, maintained shape well and didn't do braindead stuff.

I cannot be bothered to look through the match again now. Once I do, I will happily share the snapshots of it. However you won't believe it since they are "snapshots".

 

[Ferguson’s Hairdryer]

Not the time to complain about this tactic, it worked perfectly and I'm still of the mind to replace Ole but the change in shape will benefit us long term. Sancho can play in this system and so can Mason so we can always switch it up to add more flair and pace. I'm actually excited to see it against Atalanta and City.

Actually I think now is the time to highlight the potential flaws of this formation and how it might hinder us more going forwards when we face opposition that require breaking down and playing through.

While Mason can come on for CR7 or Cavani, bringing on Sancho as a floating wide player won’t really work as he’ll be crossing to a box with only one CF and maybe Fernandes if he get’s in in time.

It’s becoming a bit like Rooney post 2013, he’d be utter crap as a CF, people would say but he’s a number 10, he’d play as a 10 get a goal and people would say “see” then he’d be crap again and people be no but he’s not a 10, he’s a 10.5 support striker… cycle repeats until people would end up saying he was a number 8, and then 6. Only at United do we have this problem… and we’re having it again.

 

[pacifictheme]

Absolutely. One aspect Ole doesn’t get nearly enough credit for is the signings he has made, signings that won us the game today. Ronaldo and Cavani, a testament to managerial acumen in unearthing these hidden gems!

You reckon Ronaldo was an ole signing?

 

[mitchmouse]

Or you know, people come on to vent here when they see United absolutely in shambles regularly, and also realize how many such false dawns we have seen.

Fans like yourself love to gloat over 1 decent performance. I am not sure of your stance over Ole, however mine's clear and 1-2 decent performances from the team isn't going to change it. Even a broken clock gets to be right twice a day.

this

 

[Red Star One]

You reckon Ronaldo was an ole signing?

It’s Ole signing when he performs and upper management one imposed against Ole’s will if he doesn’t. Applies to other players too

 

[Luffy]

I'm not thrilled or happy about the win, and it's nothing to do with me being Ole out. I was okay with last night's game. The reason for not being happy is that Spurs were there for the taking. Both teams struggled to open the score. Do I get excited when United beats, say, a championship side in the FA Cup 3-0? Spurs are like a wounded sparrow now. Though they may come back to winning ways, they were quite tame, seemed arthritic, and lacked confidence and belief in themselves. They had regressed from manhood to boyhood temporarily. I'm glad that Ronaldo and Cavani can play together. That being said, I didn't feel proud, when in high school, I played football against boys much shorter and lighter than me. This victory of United's cannot be seen as a tactical victory. If you have watched the match, you'll understand.

 

[Jippy]

I'm not thrilled or happy about the win, and it's nothing to do with me being Ole out. I was okay with last night's game. The reason for not being happy is that Spurs were there for the taking. Both teams struggled to open the score. Do I get excited when United beats, say, a championship side in the FA Cup 3-0? Spurs are like a wounded sparrow now. Though they may come back to winning ways, they were quite tame, seemed arthritic, and lacked confidence and belief in themselves. They had regressed from manhood to boyhood temporarily. I'm glad that Ronaldo and Cavani can play together. That being said, I didn't feel proud, when in high school, I played football against boys much shorter and lighter than me. This victory of United's cannot be seen as a tactical victory. If you have watched the match, you'll understand.

Jesus, what a joyless post with a condescending sneer at the end
It was a solid performance against a poor Spurs, with both teams understandably nervy early on.
The goals were sublime though. There are obviously far bigger tests coming up, but it's a bit silly comparing Spurs to a championship team or a junior school side, given their attack.

 

[red_de_pologne]

No longevity in this formation. We chased a player for two years to sign him for 74 million and he can't play in this system.

 

[roonster09]

I cannot be bothered to look through the match again now. Once I do, I will happily share the snapshots of it. However you won't believe it since they are "snapshots".

You can give time stamp from 2-0 to 3-0. Let's see. I have seen it and there wasn't any moment where we lined up with 7 defenders.

 

[Lord SInister]

If we keep winning and doing some serious challenge to the title(I don't think we can win), I am happy with whatever way we are playing.
If the board doesn't want to sack Ole, than we have to look forward with whatever best tactics, he and his team of staffs come up with.

Does that mean I trust Ole as the man, no but if he is their and is getting results at a consistent rate, I won't mind whatever way we play.

 

[Bebestation]

The back 3 really gave players a freedom to do what they want.

Felt we saw a bit more of the Brazilian national team Fred, The box to box good passing player in Mctominay and even Wan Bissaka.

Varane is a beautiful defender and playing him in a back 3 is a bit unfair haha.

 

[TMDaines]

I watched every second of the game but missed 7 at the back formation that few are talking about.

2021, people still think formation on paper dictates whether team is attacking or defensive.

Amazing, isn’t it? All the best attacking managers nowadays are famed for their use of the 2-3-5 formation.

After not putting in enough defensive effort in recent weeks, people are now trying to complain with a straight face that we had too many players defending.

 

[roonster09]

Amazing, isn’t it? All the best attacking managers nowadays are famed for their use of the 2-3-5 formation.

Yeah, you see some of the best managers play more players in the defensive and middle third to build up the play as a unit, moving to attacking third as a unit but somehow it's beneath us. Any formation that doesn't involve 5-6 attacking players is shit and not United way.

Also all the time people forget football is team game and balance is very important.

 

[Orton]

People wonder why there isn’t a ton of posts about how great we were, how about wait until we actually put some form of run together. More than 2 wins in a row preferably, with more than 1 good team performance. Maybe then there will be more posts about how we are turning a corner or finding a rhythm. One victory in a game where the opponent was absolute muck and we weren’t exactly blistering isn’t going to change anything for the time being. This was yesterday and Atalanta is a different day, which usually means a different United too. We are supposed to be pushing for trophies, not celebrating the odd victory and pushing for 4th.

 

[lysglimt]

I agree. Thank god Ole spent 80m on Sancho to revert to a wingerless system. Long may it continue

Yesterday was all about winning the game - Sancho hasn't looked the part yet. He will get many chances to show how good he can be - if this had been Watford or Norwich we would not have set up this way. But we HAD to win. And as long as we score 3 goals away, I don't care if we set up with 9 defenders.

 

[stevoc]

Probably confused it with when we went with 4-5-1 formation in many tough away games to great results between 2006 and 2009. I don't remember either going with 3 at the back

Yeah I think that's the period they were thinking of, maybe because we played Brown and O'Shea at RB quite a lot.

But yeah we never used 352 that much under Fergie apart from a bit of dabbling mid to late 90's.

 

[soapythecat]

Last night was a good result. We needed it and the clean sheet desperately. But let’s be honest, did it tell you anything we don’t know? Spurs had their chances and fluffed it. The offside header at 0-0 was a typical chance for us to concede this season. Son missed a good chance too. We could have been a few down before Ronaldo scored a beauty. Spurs are in a wretched run of form and had chances in an even game
I was buzzing after the result and enjoyed a few drinks last night for the first time in a while, but the reality is we switched to a very defensive formation which isn’t really sustainable for the long haul due to the players we have and those we would be leaving out. It was a plaster over an bleeding artery.

 

[dove]

It’s actually very striking how quiet it is on here tonight. It seems a large proportion of our fan base aren’t happy unless they are miserable. Sad really.

Well done to Ole and the team for shutting them up! I for one thought it was a very balanced and impressive tactical performance, and obviously a great result - especially with the mighty Klopp and Lord Pep both dropping points.

If you really mean what you wrote here then seek help The effort some of you make to put Ole above anyone else is insane, imagine being so blind Reality is much simpler though, we beat an even crappier team than us, Ole didn't suddenly become a SAF overnight, he is still the same crap manager who should be nowhere near this club. Good win yesterday that changes absolutely nothing in regards of his status at the club, should be sacked ASAP to save the season.

 

[Godfather]

It’s actually very striking how quiet it is on here tonight. It seems a large proportion of our fan base aren’t happy unless they are miserable. Sad really.

Well done to Ole and the team for shutting them up! I for one thought it was a very balanced and impressive tactical performance, and obviously a great result - especially with the mighty Klopp and Lord Pep both dropping points.

What a toxic post

 

[kbbear]

I’m happy we won but still Ole out. A. broken clock is right twice a day. The reality is that he’s changed to formation allowing him to continue to pick the McFred.

 

[Trigg]

Wish Ole had realised this was the system he wanted to use at the beginning of the season and we could have save £70m on Sancho!

Chasing a player for 18 months to get nothing out of him isn’t a very good look for Ole, especially when Donnie is sat next to him on said bench.

 

[AneRu]

Yeah, you see some of the best managers play more players in the defensive and middle third to build up the play as a unit, moving to attacking third as a unit but somehow it's beneath us. Any formation that doesn't involve 5-6 attacking players is shit and not United way.

Also all the time people forget football is team game and balance is very important.

I don't mind the formation I am surprised by those complaining - the manager is required to take measures that stop the bleeding and this is exactly what he has done albeit a bit too late. We also can't go into freefall because we are trying too hard to put in all the expensive attacking players at the expense of defensive solidity.

The major worry is that we will use it as our default until it costs us, we need the manager to be good enough to anticipate what works against which opponent not one who is always reacting. That's on the board not on Ole though.

 

[tomaldinho1]

I watched every second of the game but missed 7 at the back formation that few are talking about.

2021, people still think formation on paper dictates whether team is attacking or defensive.

We went defensive, nothing wrong with that when it works but a bit pointless to say we weren’t defensive. 41% possession, we just let them make mistakes and used the quality of the front 2 (and an excellent few performances from McT, Varane, AWB) carry us along. It was comfortable but we weren’t offensive.

A win is always but but we are just waiting for a managerial change now. If you want to see the issue we have, go look at the stats from the Chelsea/Spurs game which was the same result and same, as memory serves, formation. Over the course of a season that difference in quality and control (which doesn’t come from a difference in players) will keep biting us in the arse.

 

[Orton]

Wish Ole had realised this was the system he wanted to use at the beginning of the season and we could have save £70m on Sancho!

Chasing a player for 18 months to get nothing out of him isn’t a very good look for Ole, especially when Donnie is sat next to him on said bench.

It shows how desperate he was yesterday that he went with this line up and it worked, but what does this mean for Sancho? It’s proving so far to be the worst signing of the summer. We have so much attacking threat that I just can’t comprehend how we chose him over a decent midfielder.

 

[wolvored]

I mean, I’ve obviously struck a nerve but I’m not sure how or why when it was just an observation. Last week must have been some sort of record for pointless moaning and meltdown thread creation yet when we play well and win convincingly and it’s like a ghost town tonight. Even the existing threads aren’t exactly buzzing with conversation, but what do I know maybe everybody is out on the town celebrating.

Not sure I care for your characterisation of me if I’m honest. I do not revel in anything other than enjoying following and supporting this team, so I’m not sure what you think you’ve seen.

As for City and the scousers, again a statement of fact. Any points we dropped to them in the title race last week have been made up this week. Hopefully we beat City next weekend and continue the trend. If that’s dumb then so be it.

Perhaps everyone was happy with the win and went out on the piss? I went to a pre halloween party as its on a sunday the proper day.

 

[Stactix]

Great result but despite how bad Spurs were, they were still gifted golden chances that most teams would of taken.

How many cleansheets is that in the last 20? 3?

Unless Ole goes on a run and wins 10 out of 12, I'm still firmly Ole out.
Utd standards have dropped so fecking low.

 

[wolvored]

Great result but despite how bad Spurs were, they were still gifted golden chances that most teams would of taken.

How many cleansheets is that in the last 20? 3?

Unless Ole goes on a run and wins 10 out of 12, I'm still firmly Ole out.
Utd standards have dropped so fecking low.

2 in 22 they said after the game