Kim Min-jae | signed for Bayern

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top1whoisman said:
And if Varane's fitness issues persist and he's available even less next season, wouldn't it be great to have his successor ready to step in? Instead of some younger player who might take a couple of years to get to used to the league, level etc. Varane probably knows himself better than anyone that he can't play as much as he'd want to anymore so I don't think it'd be an issue for him or Kim next season. If we end up signing Kim I'm sure he'll be told what his role is and how the club sees it developing over the coming years. It's not like he's going to ask for a move if he doesn't start 50+ games in his first season in the PL.
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No he'll just choose to go elsewhere if a world class CB who is turning 27 this year is told he will be backup. So he'd told he'll be starter. Which Varane would then not like so he'll ask to leave.

Squad building wise it's actually not a bad idea to replace Varane with Kim, assuming our other issues were sorted. I just don't see it happening in the slightest. We'll just keep Varane as the starter and bring someone else in as backup, who is younger and further away from being ready to takeover asap.
 
CM10 said:
Varane is semi injury prone, though. He's had trouble playing multiple games in a week at times this season and Ten Hag has also been keen to rotate him to keep him fit for key games.

Maguire was our least used central defender this season and even he featured for us over 30 times in all competitions so it's not a signing without merit. There's plenty of game time to go around, and if we're fortunate with injuries it'll be Lindelof who misses out rather than Varane.
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Maguire played 767 league minutes. If you are signing a world class CB who is turning 27 this year and you tell him he will play the equivalent of 8 games, he'll tell you to do one :lol: Same with if you tell Varane he is now a bench player.

Martinez will be fit, and he is LCB when fit. Varane when fit starts at RCB. If you sign Kim, you play him every game unless he is desperate for a rest. Those few times, we have Lindelof. Centerbacks in general aren't rotated much, especially not by Ten Hag who doesn't like rotating anyway. They aren't subbed on or off often barring injuries. Varane gets rotated so that he doesn't get injured unnecessarily. Kim Min Jae wouldn't be a profile of player to be the rotation in. He'd be the "start whenever fit" profile. It just doesn't work
 
bosnian_red said:
No he'll just choose to go elsewhere if a world class CB who is turning 27 this year is told he will be backup. So he'd told he'll be starter. Which Varane would then not like so he'll ask to leave.

Squad building wise it's actually not a bad idea to replace Varane with Kim, assuming our other issues were sorted. I just don't see it happening in the slightest. We'll just keep Varane as the starter and bring someone else in as backup, who is younger and further away from being ready to takeover asap.
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No serious player we are trying to sign is told he is a starter and certainly isn’t told he is back up. And Kim will be neither. He will compete for a place in the team.

I have a real problem with this bullshit that player X will have to accept being back up or player Y won’t come if not guaranteed starter. It does not work like that at all. The only exception could be third choice keeper he might be told he is back up.
 
bosnian_red said:
Maguire played 767 league minutes. If you are signing a world class CB who is turning 27 this year and you tell him he will play the equivalent of 8 games, he'll tell you to do one :lol: Same with if you tell Varane he is now a bench player.

Martinez will be fit, and he is LCB when fit. Varane when fit starts at RCB. If you sign Kim, you play him every game unless he is desperate for a rest. Those few times, we have Lindelof. Centerbacks in general aren't rotated much, especially not by Ten Hag who doesn't like rotating anyway. They aren't subbed on or off often barring injuries. Varane gets rotated so that he doesn't get injured unnecessarily. Kim Min Jae wouldn't be a profile of player to be the rotation in. He'd be the "start whenever fit" profile. It just doesn't work
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Are you being intentionally obtuse? Lindelof and Maguire both played over 30 games in all competitions this season. Varane has a questionable injury record. Maguire will be sold. In what world will there not be minutes to go around? :lol:

Lindelof falls down the pecking order if Varane, by some miracle, stays fit for an entire season. This isn't difficult to suss out.
 
bosnian_red said:
No he'll just choose to go elsewhere if a world class CB who is turning 27 this year is told he will be backup. So he'd told he'll be starter. Which Varane would then not like so he'll ask to leave.

Squad building wise it's actually not a bad idea to replace Varane with Kim, assuming our other issues were sorted. I just don't see it happening in the slightest. We'll just keep Varane as the starter and bring someone else in as backup, who is younger and further away from being ready to takeover asap.
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Well it’s good to know you know how they’ll feel and what roles they are given by our coaching staff. I don’t see any problems in this regard, if he signs for us.
 
top1whoisman said:
Well it’s good to know you know how they’ll feel and what roles they are given by our coaching staff. I don’t see any problems in this regard, if he signs for us.
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I'm saying I don't see it happening in any way purely because I don't think he would come on that basis. Or that Varane would be ok with it. This is typically how football works. World class players typically don't join situations where they sit on the bench if everyone is fit. Or don't remain in those situations. Giving false promises is a bad way to go about things too. We may try to do it, but I'd be shocked if it actually worked or didn't end up with Varane being sold in a year.
 
CM10 said:
Are you being intentionally obtuse? Lindelof and Maguire both played over 30 games in all competitions this season. Varane has a questionable injury record. Maguire will be sold. In what world will there not be minutes to go around? :lol:

Lindelof falls down the pecking order if Varane, by some miracle, stays fit for an entire season. This isn't difficult to suss out.
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Martinez picked up a freak injury where he missed a couple months. Yes Lindelof and Maguire played a chunk of games. Maguire's games are ridiculously limited, Lindelof barely featured outside of the 2 injury periods (Varane injury, Martinez injured). Yes if Varane stays fit, Lindelof only plays to rest Varane. Martinez plays pretty much every game apart from the very rare rest. So if you are signing a world class CB, when does he play? Who drops out? You think he will be ok with Maguire or Lindelofs game time this season? Do you think Varane would be ok with their game time, assuming we sign a world class CB and just rotate him all day (have you paid any attention to Ten Hag???)? I just don't see it as a realistic situation. It would lead to either us starting it off by telling Kim he will sit behind Varane to start off with, or lead to Varane being a bench player for a 26/27 year old CB who barely needs rotating. Where you then have a 30 year old Varane on 350k per week on the bench more often than not. It just doesn't make sense. That literally doesn't happen in football, apart from the weird ass situation going on with Laporte at Man City where you have a CB in his prime demoted to a bit part player. Do you see that happening with Varane or new big signing Kim Min Jae? It's not realistic.
 
Only at United are battles for places between elite competitors over the course of 60+ match campaigns frowned upon :lol: :wenger:

As a certain level of squad depth has definitely worked out oh so terribly for teams like Bayern, Madrid, Barca and City in recent years...
 
OrcaFat said:
No serious player we are trying to sign is told he is a starter and certainly isn’t told he is back up. And Kim will be neither. He will compete for a place in the team.

I have a real problem with this bullshit that player X will have to accept being back up or player Y won’t come if not guaranteed starter. It does not work like that at all. The only exception could be third choice keeper he might be told he is back up.
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Uhhhh every player is discussed with during negotiations what sort of role is envisioned for them. Yes the player will feel they can do more probably. But a 26/27 year old CB won't look at Varane and just go like "yeah I'm ok with just rotating with him". He'll ask what the plan is. And if he surpasses Varane, great. Varane is then going to ask the management why he is being replaced because he's 30 and doesn't want to transition to a bench role at this point.

It 100% works like that. Players aren't all idiots. They are able to use some common sense and can see if there is a world class player ahead of them. They talk about succession plans. Age matters here. If Varane was 34 and was being phased out, then no problem. He's what, 2 years older than Kim Min Jae? Of course it is a question that will come up. Certain positions rotate far more than others. It's the same problem that clubs have signing a backup for a world class player. Spurs were never able to get a back up for Kane because nobody is going there to sit on the bench because everyone knows Kane would start every game when fit. They aren't going to say "you know what, I'm gonna bench Harry Kane". Doesn't happen.

Varane is a world class center back who is 30. Yeah has some injury issues, but hardly anything drastic. He's fit most of the year and just gets rotated out on some easier games. Now if a player is below 24 and is part of the plan to rotate for a few years before taking over, that's different. A world class 26/27 year old, just no chance.
 
Between Shaw, Maguire and Lindelof, they probably clocked over 4000 minutes as CB in all comps.

Imagine having a WC CB play those minutes instead of them, scandalous, apparently.
 
bosnian_red said:
Martinez picked up a freak injury where he missed a couple months. Yes Lindelof and Maguire played a chunk of games. Maguire's games are ridiculously limited, Lindelof barely featured outside of the 2 injury periods (Varane injury, Martinez injured). Yes if Varane stays fit, Lindelof only plays to rest Varane. Martinez plays pretty much every game apart from the very rare rest. So if you are signing a world class CB, when does he play? Who drops out? You think he will be ok with Maguire or Lindelofs game time this season? Do you think Varane would be ok with their game time, assuming we sign a world class CB and just rotate him all day (have you paid any attention to Ten Hag???)? I just don't see it as a realistic situation. It would lead to either us starting it off by telling Kim he will sit behind Varane to start off with, or lead to Varane being a bench player for a 26/27 year old CB who barely needs rotating. Where you then have a 30 year old Varane on 350k per week on the bench more often than not. It just doesn't make sense. That literally doesn't happen in football, apart from the weird ass situation going on with Laporte at Man City where you have a CB in his prime demoted to a bit part player. Do you see that happening with Varane or new big signing Kim Min Jae? It's not realistic.
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You're overthinking this. Varane is entering into his 30s with a history of picking up niggling injuries. Ten Hag has already proven this season that he likes to rotate him - Varane was on the bench 14 times this season when he was fit to play. Both players will get sufficient minutes.

This is what good succession planning looks like. You sign the player ready to step into Varane's shoes this summer before it becomes a huge problem so we don't get extorted next summer. Madrid did a similar thing with Rudiger last summer when they already had Militao, Alaba and Nacho. Successful teams operate in this way. We should do the same if we'd like to be one.
 
Rolaholic said:
Only at United are battles for places between elite competitors over the course of 60+ match campaigns frowned upon :lol: :wenger:

As a certain level of squad depth has definitely worked out oh so terribly for teams like Bayern, Madrid, Barca and City in recent years...
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It's not frowned upon. It's unrealistic unless it happens naturally through young player development. Some positions naturally have more rotation than others (attack, where they tend to be more versatile). Center backs rarely need to rotate unless they are injury prone like Varane... Kim is not injury prone.

Listen, provided it doesn't take away from GK, CM or CF or a casemiro backup, I'd love to see Kim come in. He's class. I just don't think it's realistic because it doesn't make sense on a simple squad building basis. It's just not something that clubs do.
 
bosnian_red said:
Martinez picked up a freak injury where he missed a couple months. Yes Lindelof and Maguire played a chunk of games. Maguire's games are ridiculously limited, Lindelof barely featured outside of the 2 injury periods (Varane injury, Martinez injured). Yes if Varane stays fit, Lindelof only plays to rest Varane. Martinez plays pretty much every game apart from the very rare rest. So if you are signing a world class CB, when does he play? Who drops out? You think he will be ok with Maguire or Lindelofs game time this season? Do you think Varane would be ok with their game time, assuming we sign a world class CB and just rotate him all day (have you paid any attention to Ten Hag???)? I just don't see it as a realistic situation. It would lead to either us starting it off by telling Kim he will sit behind Varane to start off with, or lead to Varane being a bench player for a 26/27 year old CB who barely needs rotating. Where you then have a 30 year old Varane on 350k per week on the bench more often than not. It just doesn't make sense. That literally doesn't happen in football, apart from the weird ass situation going on with Laporte at Man City where you have a CB in his prime demoted to a bit part player. Do you see that happening with Varane or new big signing Kim Min Jae? It's not realistic.
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But in the past two seasons at United, Varane probably played less than half of the matches, so at least those matches Kim would be able to play?
And Martinez will miss some matches too, so Kim can start those too. Varane injury problems going to increase with age, but just because he retired from the international team, we can assume he is gonna play atleast the same amount of matches he played for us last 2 seasons.
I dont see any issue with Kim starting atleast 30 games and more as a substitute but I would agree there could be problem in the big matches like Derby, Finals etc when all 3 are fit and available, it might make one player unhappy but they are professional.
Also, if Kim indeed turned out to be player who can start instead of Varane, I think we would be very happy because we can replace injury prone player with younger one.
 
Big clubs have multiple top class players in positions. It's called competition for places and I can't believe some people on here are frowning upon this.
 
CM10 said:
You're overthinking this. Varane is entering into his 30s with a history of picking up niggling injuries. Ten Hag has already proven this season that he likes to rotate him - Varane was on the bench 14 times this season when he was fit to play. Both players will get sufficient minutes.

This is what good succession planning looks like. You sign the player ready to step into Varane's shoes this summer before it becomes a huge problem so we don't get extorted next summer. Madrid did a similar thing with Rudiger last summer when they already had Militao, Alaba and Nacho. Successful teams operate in this way. We should do the same if we'd like to be one.
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Madrid signed a 29 year old rudiger on a free to improve their CBs as they felt they needed an improvement with none of the others really standing out as a key/top player, and he was a free. Turned out to be a squad player. But it was a different situation and intention to the signing. Varane is a world class player... Show me an example of a 26/27 year old world class player coming into a team for decent money when there is already a world class player just 2 years older in the exact same position. Oh, and not attackers where a versatile attacker rotates around a lot and get subbed around every game. CBs don't get subbed often, they don't rotate often.

It's not about "would this improve us". Of course it would. It's is there any realism in the rumor from a squad building perspective for our needs and the way our manager operates (i.e., he doesn't rotate much). The answer to that is no, unless he plans to bench Varane. Which might happen. Varane isn't that great on the ball. I just really doubt it.
 
dubplate warrior said:
Big clubs have multiple top class players in positions. It's called competition for places and I can't believe some people on here are frowning upon this.
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It's about judging if the rumor has any realistic chance of happening. Of course I'd love to have 2 world class players in every position. It's unlikely to be true because I doubt we spent 50m in a 26/27 year old world class center back who will pretty much exclusively rotate with Varane. This isn't attackers where you need to change it up in game and rotate for freshness. Kim won't need much rotation, and Varane only rotates for injury. We aren't spending 45/50m for a world class CB to be a cup CB. I'd be shocked.
 
bosnian_red said:
Uhhhh every player is discussed with during negotiations what sort of role is envisioned for them. Yes the player will feel they can do more probably. But a 26/27 year old CB won't look at Varane and just go like "yeah I'm ok with just rotating with him". He'll ask what the plan is. And if he surpasses Varane, great. Varane is then going to ask the management why he is being replaced because he's 30 and doesn't want to transition to a bench role at this point.

It 100% works like that. Players aren't all idiots. They are able to use some common sense and can see if there is a world class player ahead of them. They talk about succession plans. Age matters here. If Varane was 34 and was being phased out, then no problem. He's what, 2 years older than Kim Min Jae? Of course it is a question that will come up. Certain positions rotate far more than others. It's the same problem that clubs have signing a backup for a world class player. Spurs were never able to get a back up for Kane because nobody is going there to sit on the bench because everyone knows Kane would start every game when fit. They aren't going to say "you know what, I'm gonna bench Harry Kane". Doesn't happen.

Varane is a world class center back who is 30. Yeah has some injury issues, but hardly anything drastic. He's fit most of the year and just gets rotated out on some easier games. Now if a player is below 24 and is part of the plan to rotate for a few years before taking over, that's different. A world class 26/27 year old, just no chance.
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I could tell that’s what you think from what you posted.
 
Anyway I'll leave you muppets alone. I'm just saying that the 1st question I ask with transfer rumors is "does it make sense from a natural squad building perspective". By that I mean does he have a world class player at a similar age right in the same position. If we have one, it's usually a bullshit rumor. Replacing Maguire this summer means signing someone to be #3 or #4 CB. That means a few that represents that, wages that represent that, quality that represents that, age that represents that. Whether it's an older CB who is ok with a lower amount of minutes or younger CB who expects to grow into it, that's a different matter. A world class CB who would expect to play the majority of minutes, nah. Nothing in it and our name is being used for some other team.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
We don’t have to wait till July through? We could enter an agreement to pay the release clause which will be active in July? All the reports just talk about him being on the radar or a priority rather than being any closer to signing him.
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Solius said:
Yeah I find it weird. If we intend to pay it and he's happy to come here then why not just do the deal now? It's not like they could wait for a bidding war. They'll only get the one price.
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I guess Napoli could / are hoping to attract bids above the release clause before it becomes active.
 
bosnian_red said:
It's about judging if the rumor has any realistic chance of happening. Of course I'd love to have 2 world class players in every position. It's unlikely to be true because I doubt we spent 50m in a 26/27 year old world class center back who will pretty much exclusively rotate with Varane. This isn't attackers where you need to change it up in game and rotate for freshness. Kim won't need much rotation, and Varane only rotates for injury. We aren't spending 45/50m for a world class CB to be a cup CB. I'd be shocked.
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Nope, we’d be spending it for the future starting RCB. Kim’s never played in PL, it’s only good that he’d have some time to get used to the league.

A year later 31-year old Varane’s got a year left on his deal so he’ll either be sold or given a short-term deal with a less important role on lower wages.
 
dubplate warrior said:
Big clubs have multiple top class players in positions. It's called competition for places and I can't believe some people on here are frowning upon this.
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100%. I think we have to ignore those people. They seem to think there is a set hierarchy and that form and fitness is irrelevant.
 
OrcaFat said:
I could tell that’s what you think from what you posted.
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Wait do you really think that players and agents don't discuss squad roles and prospective playing time before signing for a club or even signing contracts? Really? That would be horrendous and laughable negligence from the agent and pure stupidity for the player.
 
TheGame said:
But they still have to accept the release clause offer so there is no point offering more.
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Are they not able to accept any offer before the release clause amount kicks in?
 
JustinC00 said:
I don't see how having good depth at CB is a waste. If KMJ does come gives ETH a lot of flexibility to rotate

Could play Varane-Lindelof against Luton on Saturday and Licha-KMJ in the CL on Tuesday.
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I mean it's great for us but Lindelof isn't gonna stick around imo. I'd be quite happy to buy another good full back (with some attacking prowess) and have Shaw as a 4th choice CB.
 
crossy1686 said:
Why would they accept an offer that's the same as the release clause before the release clause kicks in?
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The idea being they may accept one above the amount for a club that wishes to do the deal before the release clause kicks in.
 
Also - improving in lindelof as a backup CB should be lower down the priority list than GK, CM, CF, DM cover. Fix all these then sure go crazy on replacing Varane.
 
We're losing Jones, Bailly, Tuanzebe and Maguire this summer lads, we need a new CB. Jones even got a run out this year we were that desperate at one point.
 
The Corinthian said:
The idea being they may accept one above the amount for a club that wishes to do the deal before the release clause kicks in.
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I'm sure they would but how much and is it worth it if he already wants to play for us and we trust that response? It works the other way as well, there might be a club out there, like Chelsea, who've told him they'll sign him this week but he wants to wait for the clause to kick in. We won't be the only one's interested but we can't be desperate about it because we need about 4 more players this summer.
 
top1whoisman said:
Nope, we’d be spending it for the future starting RCB. Kim’s never played in PL, it’s only good that he’d have some time to get used to the league.

A year later 31-year old Varane’s got a year left on his deal so he’ll either be sold or given a short-term deal with a less important role on lower wages.
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That's the thing, future CB but he's turning 27 this year! That's a *now" CB. And he's a world class CB. It's not that I don't want him, I just don't believe the rumor.
 
I remember City signing Dias when they had Stones and Laporta, I am not saying Stones and Laporta are the best CBs but they are undoubtedly quality, however they are injury prone to some extent, especially Laporta, now those 3 CBs (Dias, Stones & Laporta) will compete for starting spots, and guess what, Dias also gets injured too, they still have Ake and Akanji within the squad, for us it is so obvious that Varane has fitness issues, and Martinez got a freak injury, it would have been nice if we had a reliable CB who can take the opportunity to stake a claim in the starting 11 rather than be a liability (aka Maguire), and if this Kim fella is quality, then he can back himself up to be the starting CB on form, and for once it will be nice for our manager to have a selection headache rather than be desperate and play others (LB in CB role).
 
bosnian_red said:
Wait do you really think that players and agents don't discuss squad roles and prospective playing time before signing for a club or even signing contracts? Really? That would be horrendous and laughable negligence from the agent and pure stupidity for the player.
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I think they discuss it and any self respecting player and manager agree that they can’t be guaranteed a place. SAF said it like a mantra.

As you say, players aren’t stupid. They know they won’t be in the team if they don’t earn it. In the same breath, no player that we should be interested in is coming here knowing they will warm the bench. It is essential that every player in the squad believes they will get picked if they earn it. SAF relied on that concept. Pep does.
 
crossy1686 said:
We're losing Jones, Bailly, Tuanzebe and Maguire this summer lads, we need a new CB. Jones even got a run out this year we were that desperate at one point.
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That's a combined 767 league minutes. Because the first 3 didn't feature at all. Our CB situation is Varane and Martinez with Lindelof stepping in for Varane. Shaw covers for Martinez when needed, Malacia covers for Shaw to rest him, Dalot can play both sides, wan bissaka is a RB of course. Indo think we need the successor for Varane, but IMO that's a guy who is under 24 years old at a low price.
 
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