Don't think Pogba and Herrera ever featured in a double pivot together.
There was always Matic or Carrick with them.
Kevin De Bruyne
- Thread starter Robbie Boy
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Don't think Pogba and Herrera ever featured in a double pivot together.
There was always Matic or Carrick with them.
They played regularly together in the 2nd half of 16/17. Then we bought Matic in the summer.
Pogba, imo, played his best stuff here in a double pivot alongside Herrera.
Herrera was so good at winning the ball, and covered so much ground, that it gave Pogba so much more freedom than alongside Matic, Fred or McTominay
Herrera was so good at winning the ball, and covered so much ground, that it gave Pogba so much more freedom than alongside Matic, Fred or McTominay
Yep, it's already a working formula. Took half a season for Herrera to learn that role from Carrick. It wasn't that convincing when we tried it in the 1st half of 16/17.
Alas, Herrera doesn't have the height nor body Mou adored so much.
Pogba is still at his very best in any midfield three though, then second is Pogba-Herrera double pivot as you've said. Herrera is really underrated.
Carrick or Fellaini were in the midfield with them.
I doubt there's a single game where it was just Pogba/Herrera in midfield.
KDB were poor in a double pivot with Witsel (?) in the World Cup.
Bar the now-and-then superb hollywood passes he can make when he had the ball.
So basically like how Pogba is in double pivot.
You have an iffy memory! We played loads with them two behind a 10. Pogba's best form came from that set-up.
What?
It was long ago and it was when Mourinho is in charge, so I get some people forgot about it.
Try to re-watch the season, or at least look at the match reports to save time.
We who remember better are saying there are plenty of games where that happened.
I think you guys are the ones with the iffy memory.
I just went through our games in the 2nd half of the 2016-2017 season and there's not a SINGLE game where it was Pogba-Herrera in a double pivot with a #10 ahead of them.
It was always Carrick or Fellaini in the midfield with them(unless you guys want to count Fellaini as a #10).
I literally went through our match reports in the 2nd half of the 2016-2017 season.
I already said that Pogba-Herrera played plenty of times together in midfield, but they almost always had Carrick or Fellaini with them.
I only found 2 games(both in the 1st half of the season) where it was Pogba-Herrera in midfield with a #10 ahead of them.
2 games in a season doesn't equate loads to me.
Edit: I found 3 more games in the 2nd half of the season. So that's 5 total from an entire season. I'll admit it's more than I remember, but still less than what's being implied.
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It was always like this:
Pogba - Herrera
Mata/Mky - Lingard - Rash/Martial
Zlatan
Fellaini & Carrick weren't used frequently as Pogba & Herrera. Sometime Lingard was on the bench with Pogba being pushed up but most of the time Pogba & Herrera double pivot with Rooney/Lingard behind the striker or Fellaini.
That's odd.
Just did a recheck and.. interestingly towards the end.. Herrera-Pogba pivot are becoming rare.
Counting backwards..
Herrera-Pogba double pivot
EL Final vs Ajax - Fellaini operating as CAM in this game targeting their LB.
EL R16 vs Rostov
PL vs Bournemouth
EFL Cup Final vs Southampton
PL vs Watford
PL vs Leicester
EFL Cup vs Hull
... and so on. Plenty more games where they did.
At this point KDB is no longer a midfielder with the way Pep has him play.
Nah that's not true. Pogba-Herrera played plenty of times together(I'm not saying they didn't), but not in that set-up.
I just went through almost our games from that season and there's only 5 games with that set-up. If you guys think I'm lying, you're free to look at the games yourselves. There's 1 more with only them 2 in midfield, but we used a 3/5 back for the game.
Our best run of league form that season came from a Carrick-Herrera-Pogba midfield 3 when we won 5 or 6 games on the bounce.
Why didn't you list more games then?
I'll give you the Ajax one too. It's only 6 games that season.
I just went through our match reports from that season and only found 5 games(I'll give you the Ajax one) and there's another with them 2 midfield but our set-up was a 3 back.
Yes they did, I watched every single our matches in that season not just once but twice. We changed the set up depends on who we were playing against, against top opposition, Pogba & Herrera didn't play in that double pivot.
I even still remember there is debate about Herrera shouldn't be playing alongside Pogba because he's not a holding midfield.
It doesn't matter how we achieved our best run, the reality is that we used Pogba-Herrera pivot more than the other set up.
There's no need to imagine. He played with Fellaini in the double pivot at WC semis and served up a disasterclass
To be fair to fellaini he's not doing anything wrong, it's De Bruyne being crap. But it doesn't look anything like a double pivot of them together, he's trying to aim for Fellaini who is playing like a Target Man practically.
feck Mourinho and his dire football to hell
Yeah that game is horrible to watch.But hey, it worked, the strategy fits and we won a trophy we never won before.
I don't mind if we play boring football in european games, SAF also did set-up that way.
Okay fine, I have some more free time right now.
Doing this for you. From last game to the earliest.
Herrera-Pogba double pivot
EL Final vs Ajax - Fellaini operating as CAM in this game targeting their LB.
EL R16 vs Rostov
PL vs Bournemouth
EFL Cup Final vs Southampton
PL vs Watford
PL vs Leicester
EFL Cup vs Hull
EL vs Zorya
EL vs Fenerbahce - Schneider play first in midfield of three, then Herrera-Pogba pivot 2nd half.
PL vs Burnley
PL vs Stoke
PL vs Leicester
*there are also other games not listed here where in either half, the pivot happens after substitutions.*
Still not enough?
But how many of those games include Fellaini?
My original point was that Pogba and Herrera rarely played in midfield without Fellaini/Carrick.
Either way, we're derailing the thread.
I admit it's more games than I remember initially.
Mate, when he's fit, he always play, often as impact subs.Not always as 3rd CM though, Mou tend to use him like a lamp-post in the opposing box. Our players just need to hit repetitive cannon-ball long passes to him. That and as the 3rd CB when we need to park the lead.
Kevin was rubbish against Arsenal. Gave the ball away repeatedly.
He’s a fantastic player though, but he’s had many games like today too.
He’s a fantastic player though, but he’s had many games like today too.
Did he?
KDB played further up top in that semi if I recall correctly.
Witsel, Dembele and Fellaini were at the back defending.
Before the semi, he played with Witsel in double pivot.
Fellaini joined in when they faced Brazil, and Fellaini were crucial in stopping Neymar.
Exactly this! He's very productive hence why people will forget or ignore the number of times he gives the ball away. Very much like Bruno, in that respect.
Yeap. Similar to Pogba if we think about it.
But KDB often escape criticism and given better reputations.
Guess that showed which club actually is the bigger club and matters more.
I actually think de Bruyne’s best trait is even when he is having a poor game he can still produce one great moment to create a goal. There’s nothing more irritating than a commentator going ‘there’s a collector’s item’ when he does a bad pass. The commentator said it today after he’d already given it away about three times. De Bruyne does give the ball away a lot in search of that killer ball - but there’s not many, if anyone, better than him at finding it over the past few years.
Yea that’s true. He’s a fecking fantastic player though. That said, this is something that I’ve studied quite a bit. It takes more deliberateness than people realise to form an actual real opinion on football. I think many people’s opinions are not actually their own, even if they watch a game with their two eyes. It’s just one big echo chamber, and the consensus tends to rule.
Like, De Bruyne had a poor game today (yesterday), and I’m almost certain that, had City won the match, even people who watched the game will say that he played well. It’s just ultimate laziness!
Post lockdown burn out. Be easy on him.
This is happening now with Bruno too. He was poor most of the game against Palace but was awarded MOTM by the commentator.
Bruno has the same affliction.
Could have had a few assists if Sterling could finish.
Its because they are brave. I've seen KDB have poor games and leave with 2 assists a goal and man of the match. He was shocking today but if Sterling had taken a couple of those chances he would be rightly lauded because end product matters. Bruno is exactly the same. Its no coincidence having someone who constantly take the brave decisions gets lauded because they decide games. Bruno/KDB can have a nightmare but turn a game in a second. Pogba too. When KDB is not in our team there are times where we look like LVG's United. I'd rather see KDB constantly give the ball away today than shirk responsibility like our other midfielders and only pass sideways.
Don't see the need for the argument, De Bruyne in most teams would be a no.10 while Pogba would always be a CM. It's like comparing Iniesta/Isco to lampard/Ballack
How does KdB compare to the number tens of late 90s/2000s like Del Piero, Totti, Rivaldo?
Rivaldo was more technically gifted than De Bruyne, a better dribbler, a better goalscorer, but an inferior passer. Del Piero, like Rivaldo, was also a better dribbler and better goalscorer than De Bruyne, but likewise an inferior passer. That said, ADP never reached his full potential after his brutal knee injury in late 1998. Totti was a slower version of De Bruyne who was a better goalscorer and similarly creative passer. I think De Bruyne is the better crosser but Totti had better technique.
Although with regards to goalscoring, it should be noted that those three players all played as second strikers (a similar position to Muller) rather than attacking midfielders like KDB. You could argue that KDB does more defensively and plays deeper than them.
I rate KDB on the same level as Totti and Del Piero, but below Rivaldo who was the best player in the world at his peak (1999).
Didn't help that he played as a 6 in first half with two CMs who can't run anymore in front of him.