You can look at his form all day. He hasn't shown that for United at all.Take Mata's form of 12/13...
Competiton - goals - assists ---- last number minutes
Premier League 35 11 17 -- - 2.727'
Europa League 8 1 5 - - - 490'
Champions League 6 3 3 - - - 441'
FA Cup 6 1 5 - - - 468'
League Cup 5 2 4 - - - 452'
Kevin De Bruyne
- Thread starter Devil may care
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12/13 is three seasons ago, that's a long long time in football. Apart from some purple patches, Mata hasn't been able to perform at that level ever since and it's questionable if he ever will. That's like saying Rooney is still the way to go for United up front because he had two 30+ seasons in the not too distant past, it doesn't work that way. You may be right about the value of KdB for this United - would he be such a huge upgrade on what they currently have that he'd justify his price tag? Probably not, but looking at today's transfer market, who would? You don't get a significant upgrade on Memphis, Mata or Herrera without splashing €40m-€50m on a player, especially if it's a hot target like De Bruyne. €74m is over the top but that's what you get with City: if they badly want a player, they'll get him at any price. So if LvG rates his current attacking options (which he seems to do), he won't go after Griezmann or Lacazette for €40m and that's why United is still stuck with their current attack. Hell, they wouldn't even pay €30m for Pedro.
I wouldn't be annoyed by De Bruyne's transfer if I were them though. Although they have plenty of it, it's just too much money. I'd want my club to spend and buy the right players but not at any price just to get one over the neighbours.
And that is what I am trying to tell you.
De Bruyne has been great as the big fish in a small pond. He has not been good when he did not get the same care and approval with Mourinho. There is a difference between small and big clubs.
There is a difference between shining in different systems, too.
I do not really think that Mata got worse - but he is working in a different environment.
Look at Götze - at Dortmund he was the big assistant he never was at either for the German national team or at Bayern. He got better in front of the goal - but the guy that had 15 assists with 18 years in the Dortmund system never could replicate that in another system.
I just think that he is a big gamble for the price he costs. I did not tell that he is not a very good player.
I hope you are right....but I doubt it. I think Aguero, Silva, De Bruyne and Toure are too good to ignore eachother. I think they will dominate english football for years.
If City gets KDB, I will claim that there isn't a single United attacker that will get into City's team. Obviously Silva and Kun are 2 very special players, and United doesn't have anyone near to them in current team. Fitness is something they lack at times.
Means nothing unless the said players are surrounded by a team that consistently players well together.
Not likely since Toure is 32 and on the wane.
Would just like to say that these types of comparisons are almost entirely pointless, it kind of bugs me when people do this because when you think about it it's mostly the system that suits the players the most, their understanding of it and the chemistry between them that counts, and then comes individual abilities.
I did not say that it could not be like this either. We discussed de Bruyne a lot in the Bayern forums in the recent some months and about his value for other systems.
The problem is just that he way got too expensive to gamble on him for a reasonable club. I do not think that United has such a different policy to Bayern's.
Every transfer somehow is a gamble - yes. But it is a difference if you gamble on a 30m EUR transfer like Costa - or you get a proven player for 30 to 40m - or a player you do not know how he will perform in another system and environment with 70m or 80m EUR.
The problem is that there is not really any of the top proven offensive players available on the market. I do not really want to know how expansive someone like this would get as a lot of the top clubs would be in to get him.
Seems to be over priced IMO, though I didn't see a whole lot of him last season. What actually happened with him at Chelsea? Why did Mourinho decide he didn't want him?
Price doesn't matter much. To be a success at City he will have to bring his Wolfburg form. If he does that price won't matter. If he does not, even if they had paid 40m, it would have been a bag to meh signing.
The thing to bear in mind is that he is only 24 and can become a much better player over the next years. Poty in the Bundesliga ahead of the Bayern stars indicates class. He'll make Mou regret his sale, IMO.
I still think it is harder to perform as an attacking player in the Premier League than it is in the Bundesliga or La Liga. I guess Firmino and De Brunye will give us an indication on that this season. I would be stunned if either can reproduce their Bundesliga form.
I suspect both would have struggled to replicate their form at Bayern too, so I'm not sure you can use that as clearcut evidence that the PL > BL. I'm not sure why anyone cares either way anyway.
Firmino's not a top level player - or at least not a top level attacking misfielder, too brainless for that - and de Bruyne's obviously thriving from having a team built around him which he can't possibly get at a better team (yet).
I think he'll find it hard to be as influential in the premier league, not only cause its a tougher league, but also because he won't get as many touches with silva around. Silva will still be the guy city's attacks will go through.
Fantastic player though, one of my favourites to watch last season. I hope the fecker flops.
Fantastic player though, one of my favourites to watch last season. I hope the fecker flops.
It is good evidence for a case of the Premier League being a harder league for attackers.
Dismissing it as evidence through a hypothetical assumption is not a credible counter argument either.
I am not entering the debate on EPL vs BL. Just saying that I think the EPL is harder for attackers and I don't expect show stopping seasons from either of those players.
Hazard does not have any problems in the Prem: three seasons, three times in the PFA team of the season. Has he been better for Belgium than De Bruyne?
He scored 20 in his best season in France and his best total is 14 twice in the Premier League. How they play at international level isn't relevant to my point.
£300k a week?? Wow. That's Messi money. This guy must be the shizzle.
not sure but he only played in three games:
started at hull played for 67 mins and got an assist
started against united played for 60 mins
came on for 5 mins against fulham
but it seems a bit harsh to write off his chelsea time as a failure as one assist in 132 mins is hardly the worse return you will see.
It was around the time of Jose not playing Mata if I recall correctly so perhaps he did not feel KDB offered enough defensively either?
Perhaps not giving him the opportunity at Chelsea will ultimately be viewed as a Jose mistake - a little like us not giving Pogba the opportunity now looks with hindsight to be a poor choice.
Hazard was the best player in the Prem last season without replicating his stats from Ligue 1. It wasn't difficult for him to thrive in the Prem. Why should it be more difficult for De Bruyne? He's only 24 and could develop further as a player. It's not like he's in his prime. Surely, he won't be the main man at City, not this season anyway. But this has also some advantages, IMO. Being in the shadow of Silva and Aguero, he could play with less responsibility and more freedom. Fans would still expect more from Silva and Aguero than from him.
Because he isn't as good as Hazard? Hazard was very young player in France and was devastating. His improvement curve that comes with age has not seen him hit the same devastating heights in the PL as he did in France.
As for De Brunye. The BL made him appear better because was the star man and it is more favourable for attackers?
Mourinho said that he needed to be the centre of attention and playing all the time and was impatient when he was not. I am not sure how City would be the best environment for him in that case.
That is just my theory anyway. This season will tell us more.
They will replace him with Pogba next year.
Unless either Barca/Real get involved.
Then they will go for the second best option. You can see this year that City won't be cutting any corners.
Hes right though with the possible exception of Memphis and Sterling.
They also play far better in their system than we do.
City are looking so strong right now.
Mourinho slated his attitude, called him a baby and got rid. Hopefully City don't play to his strengths, he kicks up a fuss and between him, Sterling and Yaya the toys come out the pram. One can only hope...
Mourinho slated his attitude, called him a baby and got rid. Hopefully City don't play to his strengths, he kicks up a fuss and between him, Sterling and Yaya the toys come out the pram. One can only hope...
Let's hope Barca snap up Verratti and Madrid Pogba then
If it's true that he will cost £59m and 300k a week wages that is complete bonkers. He's had one very good season and a chance he could flop in the PL.
Huge amount of money for a player who's had one good season. And he's not better than Silva so he's likely to be shunted out wide. Not sure why they'd pay such big money for a player they arguably don't need.
300k a week apparently! Insane money. But yeah, really hope you're right. Silva has looked immaculate in the centre so it's possible KDB gets to play where Navas is now. And maybe he won't perform to his potential on the right.
That's not true though, he was already good for Bremen.
Was he £55 million pounds good? With wages its a deal probably worth over £100 million. For a player they arguably don't need in their current set up.
He's not done it in the Champions League or on the big stage and this move will bring huge pressure.
Why are people so surprised at the fee? He's one of the best in his position and just turned 24, top players demand top money.
Mourinho suggested that he needs to be the main man. This team isnt going to be built around him. Not that many players get moved on by Jose and go on to prove him worng - although perhaps this kid will.
Just seems like a strange signing. They'll expect the kind of numbers he put up in Germany last year for this to be a success and that's a massive ask.
But "top players" have generally had a few years at the top before people part with that kind of money, and these kind of wages, for them. Is he the best they could have got for that money in terms of ability and in terms of where he fits in for them? I'm not so sure but I guess we'll see.
I don't think he was 55m pounds good last season either, but that's what City have to pay to get him. So they either had to take an inferior player for less money or try to maximise the team's potential and hope for the best. We'll see how it turns out.
People have to bear in mind also that Silva isn't getting any younger, De Bruyne could be a natural replacement in 2-3 years. Time will tell etc. but they play the best football in the league and if/when Aguero gets injured, Silva, De Bruyne and Sterling will create enough chances for Bony to keep them competitive in the league.
He's been very good in the last 18 months since he signed for Wolfsburg, also very good for Bremen, he only had 6 shit months with Chelsea in the last 3 years. Also consistently good for Belgium, I don't see how you can say that he was only good for a year...
insane money Sky are saying £58m, way way over prices.
Still laugh at Sky using Football Manager stats.
Still laugh at Sky using Football Manager stats.
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